Rian Johnson Talks Logistics of Kylo and Rey’s Force Connections
The long distance, force-based conversations between Rey and Kylo Ren were one of the many interesting and new facets of the Force that were introduced in The Last Jedi. Not completely unprecedented, as we had seen these sorts of connections made in the past, but they were never as clearly defined as it was in this movie. In an article over at People, Rian Johnson discussed these scenes and the thought and logistics that went into creating them.
For that second act twist in Supreme Leader Snoke’s chambers to work, Johnson clearly needed us to at least begin to empathize with the former Ben Solo, so the director needed to find a way to do that. But doing so meant covering quite a bit of emotional ground for both Rey and the audience who had just seen him strike down a fan favorite character in Han Solo.
For those force connections, I needed them to talk. And I thought that the hardest thing that Rey could possibly be faced with is being forced to talk to this person that she completely despises. And also the audience, we hate him coming into it. She had to be our proxy and so that’s why in those first few conversations, she is just spitting in his face.
That these conversations work so well, despite the inherently silly logistics of talking to nothing is a testament to both Johnson’s directing and both actor’s performance. Clearly a lot of effort went into getting those scenes just right. Johnson discusses in more detail:
Every single time we shot one of their sides, the other person was off camera. Even to the point where Adam flew to Ireland just to be off camera for Daisy’s stuff, which was essential because they’re such intimate conversations. And that also meant we had to shoot each of those scenes twice basically, which meant the rehearsal time was really important. And my editor Bob Ducsay did an amazing job then of making it feel kind of seamless after the fact.
All the effort would seemed to have paid off. Despite some mixed reaction among fans towards the film as a whole, near universal applause has been given to the performances at the center of the film. And, this stands especially true considering these scenes could have so easily come off as stilted and awkward considering the setup.
Head over to People for the entire piece, including Johnson’s thoughts on how Abrams set him up for the Kylo/Rey dynamic in The Force Awakens and his thoughts on the two going forward.
Ahhhh, so we finally have an answer to the “Why was Adam Driver on Skellig Michael” question.
Right on!
This was one of the best aspects of the entire film. Rey and Ben’s interactions here… it truly was a great way of developing them further. At least it was MY favorite aspect.
Poe’s arc would probably be my second favorite. His growth at least.
As far as the acting goes. Yes absolutely. Everyone did great. The only moments that were a little awkward were when the scene and writing failed them. Not really the actor’s fault. Stand out to me was Carrie. Wow… I felt she had been stiff in TFA. Here I found her completely believable, awesome even. Makes her loss all the harder.
I agree that it was one of the best aspects of the film! It was very good and a great character vehicle to get them communicating in some way. Also, Poe’s arc was great. And then there’s Finn arc where he’s always running away to avoid conflict and ends up trying to sacrificing himself in order to save everyone. The scenes with Rey, Kylo or Luke I thought were excellent. Poe’s were OK and Finn’s were a bit lackluster for me.
That scenes were real standouts in the movie!! Very good!!
So he tried to write the story to force us to like Ben after Ep. 7 forced us to hate him. No wonder it seemed so forced. I didn’t much care for the arch, especially since it continued after Snoke was dead and Kylo said the act of doing it would kill them.
Really? That’s what you got out of that? You can’t watch movies or read articles worth a damn.
It wasn’t to FORCE us to like Ben. It was to make you understand him a little bit more and where he is coming from. Empathize doesn’t mean “like”.
Also, the connection was already open, which is why it didn’t kill them.
He can’t. There should be an…I don’t know…basic forum; somewhere away from the adults’ table.
Yeah, I agree.
if you don’t like the movie, fine, no issue.
But at least comprehend it.
Yes, the major problem with the hate-wave against TLJ: fans misunderstanding the ideas of the movie.
That, and people wanting exactly what they speculated about for two years..
I highlighted that 2 points in another post in this site, and some fans wanted do knock me haha Really, we can summarize the hate in those two points:
> lack of understanding
> subversion of expectations.
I like to see any movie for what it is, understand the creator’s vision.
Well, after 5 viewings with criticisms, I’m coming around to enjoying it more…. though I still feel that LFL are unwisely breaking away from GL’s original [ie, post ROTS] intent for this set of films :-s
No harm in speculatin’…. it’s how we deal with it afterwards !!! LOL ! 🙂
Haters need to stop trying to convince everyone how much TLJ sucked. Those that liked the film, myself included, probably need to stop telling the haters “you just didn’t get it”
Yes, I understand. Maybe let them grasp the concepts for themselves. But I strongly recomend a second view. They will probably feel much better, seeing the movie without the blind expectations.
People missed SO MANY details.
I didn’t feel forced to anything. I just read the situations as it happened. It’s a normal thing, evolution in storytelling. Sometimes, we discover that the person we dislike is not so bad…
The movie ends with Ren more the villain than ever, doomed to carry the weight of his actions with him forever. What we are given is more insight into why he is the way he is, rather than just a moody Darth Vader wannabe rebellious son, which is what he came across as in TFA.
Just like they spent three movies “forcing” us to hate Vader, just to then “force” us to like him in the end. Such terrible storytelling.
I wonder if Snoke isn’t dead…which is why there is another bridge between them at the end
I’m pretty sure he’s dead and the bridge just carried on because of the relationship that Rey and Kylo developed…
That’s what I figured. Snoke created it, but nothing said he had to be there to maintain it. He just got the ball rolling.
I mean, I was sitting there thinking “hmmm…I wonder if he’s not rea….oh, oh no, there’s a big close-up of Snoke with his tongue hanging out – he’s dead, and Rian really wants us to know it.”
yeah, the dude totally looked like my budgie when he finally fell of his perch, with his little purple tongue sticking out. You don’t recover from that. Fortunately I don’t think he had enough screen presence to warrant them sticking a pair of mechanical legs on him in some future animated series.
And the lower half of his body slumping in the other direction with Hux looking on. Message received loud and clear, Johnson!
Yeah I remember that too…but maybe something else is going on. I Dunno. After Leah flew threw the air like Mary Poppins… And Maul survived being cut in half…. Who knows.
Was there another bridge at the end? I don’t remember that. I didn’t think there was anymore contact between them after Rey left to return to the resistance. Can you remind me when and what was said?
Was there another bridge at the end? I don’t remember that. I didn’t think there was anymore contact between them after Rey left to return to the resistance. Can you remind me when and what was said?
Rey at the top of the Falcon boarding ramp, with Kylo holding the disappearing dice in the rebel control room…….. I hadn’t thought that the ‘bridge’ was still in operation even though Snoke was dead, I guess I must have just assumed that once the bridge had been created, its ‘seed’ was laid and one or both could then connect back and forth more easily at their own will.
Ah ok thanks. Had forgotten about that. I think it was probably just a residual effect. They probably won’t have much contact in IX until they face off at the end and she cuts him to shreds.
I dont think they exchanged words but you can tell there was a bridge based on the cinematography. I think they just stare at each other when Kylo is in the main bay where the resistance had just been and Rey is about to depart in the falcon. Anyone else remember?
It’s not something all unseen in the SW Saga. In the 10th episode of Rebels (Path of The Jedi) 1st season, Yoda and Ezra communicate in a very similar way inside the Lothal Temple (Yoda being in Dagobah). There is some precedent.
Luke and Vader kind of do the same thing at the end of Empire also. They were much closer, but it seemed like the same kind of thing happening.
Yes. But I brought the Ezra/Yoda case because the distance involved. They were really far from each other (Lothal – Dagobah).
It’s true that TLJ goes further with it, but I agree that there’s no invention here, it had been seen before.
I think that was more like the Kylo/Leia connection in TLJ, given also the fact that the same transition effect was used
This is a little more, there is a physical connection made between the two, physical. Surprised we didn’t go all in and have them force teleport
Yes, it is one step further. But it’s natural, the practice of the Force evolve with the years of new studies.
Yes, it is one step further. But it’s natural, the practice of the Force evolve with the years of new studies.
I might have mixed feelings about TLJ but damn, this screenshot fighting the Praetorians is so amazing. Incredible fightscene!
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f7828ae4a26e2f7c528d7a19a890131da9953dae352c3fa6eb55a86d91dbfa59.gif
well, no Oscars for set design this time
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fc9b9407260dc44ebda5727c18c6941305ae7a443c701e0684eb85a96e4eb1d0.jpg
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1df84f62fbb1f3be7fb29a544c51687ff8ce5ecf49fb4ad53af17c8cf9596cc9.png
What really excites me for nine is how the state of galaxy demands that one of them kill the other to win yet i doubt either of them are capable of going through with it.
What really excites me for nine is how the state of galaxy demands that one of them kill the other to win yet i doubt either of them are capable of going through with it.
why, I thought the two were now on equal footing, and neither are longer relevent.
Rebels – 10 left with 30 year old gear and a few transports
First Order – a few star destoyers? The CGI was so bad it was hard to make out what was left after the hyperspace weapon. hey, rendering takes time and $$$
Ewan McGregor loved The Last Jedi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRG6-Ybfwss
Let the theories begin about forced, strong-armed statements by Disney. LOL.
Let the theories begin about forced, strong-armed statements by Disney. LOL.
the beard is back and he is doing nothing at the moment, …let’s do this
the Jedi force
The dark side tempts $$$$$$$$$
Aaaaaaah cmooooooon. What is the saying: Dont bite the hand that is feeding u ?
Look how hard he is trying – he paused before saying “beautiful” like . comon i can not fck this up, have to say something good about the movie 😀
The staff has to change first in order for Obi-Wan movie to bee good. First KK needs to go.
https://youtu.be/oB9uag4Kr4U
I can’t watch that, when her pitch goes up my eardrums ring like an alarm clock.
Yes she is a little shrill, still she breaks down the false premise that big $$$ box office doesn’t mean great success, there is so much tied into this film, box office is the least of the returns on Disney’s investment
Youtubers: the first fake news
Youtubers: the first fake news
huh?
A blanket dismissal of the most revolutionary platform of citizen journalism and free speech?
What’s going on with you?
KK made over $4 billion on three movies. Yeah, what a horrible failure she is.
Then Michael Bay is a genius for the Transformer movies as that franchise has made billions of dollars too. Oh wait….Box office gross doesn’t = movie quality.
Oh wait… Producers whose movies make money = successful producers.
If you didn’t like the film’s quality that’s the fault of the director/writers, the chief artistic contributors to the film.
Producers are all about making the films successful.
KK still has to look long term at the SW brand and Han Solo and Episode 9 will really see where this franchise is headed. I predict Episode 9 will be the first final movie of a SW Trilogy to gross the least. ROTS and ROTJ grossed more then AOTC and ESB. If this happens then that will signal the damage that was done after TLJ backlash.
Again, SW is never going to die as it will always make money. But will it make SW money or typical blockbuster money? If the trend is that SW starts making blockbuster money then KK bears some fault for alienating a base of OT fans with TLJ.
Only time will tell…..
No movie will ever do what TFA did. TLJ is more typical of what Star Wars movies will do.
You also have to take into account the fact that before, we only got Star Wars movies in a short period. 3 Movie bursts. Thats it. RotS was going to be the last Star Wars movie. That’s built in hype. Same for RotJ. Disney has said they are making SW every year, audiences know they will see the next movie. Its not even close to the same.
He’s also clearly chewing on something and repeats the action several times during the panel.
If KK needs to go first, then you could be waiting a long time for your Obi-wan movie.
Right, now Ewen is lying too, just like MH must have been. Wonders never cease
I’d just like to see him in the Kenboi movie still chewing that mint.
You mean that big fucking mint lol
Bbbbbbbbbbeautiful MK Ultra glitch.
you can tell he loved it in the same way Mark Hamill does
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Ewan, did you like The Last Jedi? No, I hated it, it was an awful movie. By the way I would really love to work with Disney any time they would want to give me money, anything they offer…. Thank you very much.
This was one of the few things I really liked from TLJ. Give me more Rey/Luke/Kylo/Snoke and take out the whole Rose/Finn substory and I may look at this movie differently.
Rose/Finn/Holdo could have been replaced without changing the story, the definition of unnecessary narrative. I didn’t hate it, but…
Also, would have been nice to have Leia or, better yet, Admiral Ackbar stay behind to ram Snoke’s ship. They wasted a great hero death opportunity to validate a character that didn’t need to be there. A shame.
A character nobody heard of before and will never think of again. There seemed to be several of those in this film.
Sigh….
You don’t get it either, I guess.
If it was Ackbar, Poe would have trusted him. All of the leadership needed to be gone so that Poe could learn his lesson and have his arc.
Holdo proves herself in the end by doing this unexpected sacrifice that wouldn’t have worked coming from Ackbar because we would expect it.
No son, I get it. It still wasn’t necessary to add a character to do it. Leia was sufficient for his satisfying his arc on leadership vs glory.
The fact remains, the sacrifice would have been more meaningful to the butts in the seats if it was Leia or Ackbar giving their all. Kind of like how making Rey from nobody may have been a good way to challenge Rey the character, but it was meh to watch frankly.
I enjoyed this film and have defended it here, but it’s not without it’s problems.
If you think it works the same with Ackbar, then you don’t get, SON.
Poll it. How do you think fans of the saga would react if you asked them the question, “which character would have the greatest emotional impact on you if they sacrificed themselves spectacularly in TLJ:
Leia
Ackbar
Holdo?”
How do you think that poll would go?
Holdo was used to show emphasize to Poe the difference between glory and leadership. All I’m saying is that could have been accomplished without her being added.
Telling people “you don’t get it” is a cop out.
That wasn’t the point of that scene, though. You prove you don’t get it. Not a cop out, you just refuse to understand the reasoning behind those decisions and how they would be nullified with your changes.
It wasn’t about the emotional impact of Holdo (or Ackbar) sacrificing themselves. It was about Poe being challenged. And he would not have mutinied against Ackbar. So they needed a new character to do that.
Methinks you don’t understand my point
I do, but you are holding to it. Making it be Ackbar changes too many things. I happen to disagree with you.
Thank you. Someone who understands Holdo’s character was just a character driver for Poe. All these people saying Ackbar or Leia would have had a greater effect really don’t see it. Poe would never, I repeat NEVER, have contemplated mutiny, much less gone forward with it, if it was Ackbar or Leia running the show. He would never have learned that lesson, and would have never led the rebels out of the cave.
we all get it…it just doesn’t work the way they wanted it to for everybody. And personally the characters are too shallow for me to even care about their sacrifice. Not to mention the problem with the light speed destruction. From now on, just send in light speed kamikaze pilots and destroy all of the FO fleet.
You’re entitled to that opinion. Personally, I liked the way they did it. I don’t think Holdo was shallow, and she was more fleshed out in the book. It was kinda cool to see her on the screen, knowing how close she and Leia were, and how she was very much doing what Leia would have done. I think Poe’s character grew tremendously from what he learned and the rebels will be better for it.
But lightspeed destruction wasn’t an issue when Han destroyed the rathtar by initiating lightspeed from another ship. The ship still has to travel through that space. That’s the whole reason there’s hyperspace lanes and why finding new ones is dangerous. Han said it himself in the original – “Traveling through hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova and that’d end your trip real quick, wouldn’t it?”
If it. was Snoke who, per his own admission, force bridged Rey and Ben, why does the mind link between them continue after Snoke is killed and how is Rey capable of shutting it off ?
great question, one of too many
one of too many…throughout the entire saga.
It doesn’t take much to poke holes in Star Wars logic, best to not to delve too deep.
one of too many…throughout the entire saga.
It doesn’t take much to poke holes in Star Wars logic, best to not to delve too deep.
I think you just answered your own question.
1. Force Bridge – Initiated by a third-party (Snoke) to manipulate two force sensitive users (Rey and Ben). Involuntary
2. Mind-Link – Initiated by one of the two force users (Rey or Ben), just like Luke and Leia, Luke and Vader. Voluntary
I think this explanation is supported by Rey being able to shut it off. Although, it seemed like she caused more than just a dropped call since the dice disappeared. Would like to know if that was intentional.
I’m sure we’ll get another lengthy explanation from RJ to make sense of the mess he wrote and directed.
I’m sure we’ll get another lengthy explanation from RJ to make sense of the mess he wrote and directed.
The “Force-Facetime” moments between Rey and Kylo rank amongst the CHEESSIEST I have ever seen in a supposedly-serious film. Remember
that Kylo killed Han, kidnapped and mind-raked Rey, and hospitalized
Finn? She hated him. But now they play tootsy-toes via the Force.
On top of that, the director decided there was no time to bother with a proper send off or memorial service (for even 30 seconds) in honor of Han Solo…Instead, how ’bout a pointless side plot that takes up way too much time. Anyhow, hopefully Leia doesn’t go out like a chump too
On top of that, the director decided there was no time to bother with a proper send off or memorial service (for even 30 seconds) in honor of Han Solo…Instead, how ’bout a pointless side plot that takes up way too much time. Anyhow, hopefully Leia doesn’t go out like a chump too
Right…where’s the memorial for Obi Wan and Yoda dammit.
Seriously?
Obi Wan was a hermit. Yoda was a… hermit. They were also minor characters. Han Solo was much more.
Did you notice the First Order fleet CHASING them? When would there be time for a memorial?
I don´t know…..with my bad english….is the word CHASING the right one to use? Wasn´t it more like…..FOLLOWING?
yes following, without dispatching any Tie Fighters, because they couldn’t support the fighters at that distance.
Except very shortly we were show that when you run out of fuel you just stop.
Or you stop accelerating.
If it was just steady on travel, none of the engines would have been on and fuel is irrevlevant.
Too easy to poke holes in the SW universe.
How much on-screen time do you want to waste on this stuff? Maybe they had one back at Resistance central before Rey left for Ach To.
Wasn’t it on the moon of Endor?
Did I say anything about Vader?
Fair point on the pointless side plot though.
Not really. It had a big point.
I know, I know…..free the animals, keep the children slaves well locked up 🙂
Yeah, RJ wanted his Cantina scene.
Look, I liked the movie and have defended it, but from Maz to the Fathiers, it was unnecessary to the story and smacked of the PT.
Yeah, RJ wanted his Cantina scene.
Look, I liked the movie and have defended it, but from Maz to the Fathiers, it was unnecessary to the story and smacked of the PT.
Not really.
It was necessary to Finn’s development and arc. Whether you like it or not is up to you. But to say it had no point is entirely false.
I didn’t say it had no point, I said it was unecessary. If you can extract it without changing the story, it’s unnecessary.
The story was about Rey’s journey to self-reliance, Kylo attempting to fulfill his destiny and Poe getting his head out of the cockpit and of course, the last spark of resistance hanging on.
Finn and Rose were kind of a sideshow, which is too bad because I like both.
This is you, from above:
“Fair point on the pointless side plot though.”
So yeah, you said that.
And it does change the story if you remove it because Finn’s actions would then be different.
They didn’t exactly have much time for a memorial service did they considering they were on the run from the first order the whole time.
Rey was spitting venom at him in each force bridge scene until after her disappointment in the force/mirror cave. How much bitchiness is necessary on screen before a modicum of empathy can be established between them?
They didn’t understand the movie.
in real world many women love the bad guys
Cheesier than Luke turning Anakin/Vader back to the light?
Remember Vader killed Obi-Wan, chopped of his own son’s hand with his lightsaber, tortured his buddy Han then froze his tortured body in carbonite, and later threatened to turn Leia to the dark.
Luke hated him. But now they play happy families due to the force.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/17bfec50b422dd320825240ea61246736b0dd4aedf0a80441a4ce03614807aec.gif
Cheesier than Luke turning Anakin/Vader back to the light?
Remember Vader killed Obi-Wan, chopped of his own son’s hand with his lightsaber, tortured his buddy Han then froze his tortured body in carbonite, and later threatened to turn Leia to the dark.
Luke hated him. But now they play happy families due to the force.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/17bfec50b422dd320825240ea61246736b0dd4aedf0a80441a4ce03614807aec.gif
That’s the thing… Luke didn’t hate him. Luke didn’t have the open aggression that Rey embodies. Luke rejected Vader and loved his Father whom he knew to be a victim of the terrible evil within. This evil being outwardly represented by the Emperor. This is why Luke’s quest was not to destroy his father, but to redeem him. This is fundamentally different from Rey’s relationship with Kylo and the emotional pettiness both characters encompass. Luke was a true Jedi. This is also why Luke going to murder his nephew was entirely out of character of every virtue Luke embodies.
The point is:
Luke barely knew his father. He only has about two scenes with him in the entire saga. Yet he succeeds in turning him to the light, as Star Wars is about redemption and forgiveness. Much like what is potentially being setup between Rey and Ben.
Although Luke very nearly did destroy his father in ROTJ. It was only when he saw that his father also had a robotic hand that he threw away his lightsaber. The flashback scene in TLJ Luke clearly says he only had the thought about killing Ben for a split second, and the thought just as quickly went away, you can see how ashamed Luke feels for having that thought and it’s possible that it was the darkside trying to take control.
Except that Luke’s hate for Vader gestated before he knew Vader was his father. The father he never knew and had always wanted to meet.
And Rey’s hate for Ben before she’s getting to know him, or understand herself. At the end of The Last Jedi, it seems her feelings towards him are more disappointment that hate.
None of what you mentioned was cheesy. Rey and Kylo’s “Force Facetime” made my eyes sore from rolling back so far.
Have you ever seen The Dark Crystal? The sequel trilogy is very reminiscent of it. It follows very similar narrative themes as Star Wars. Interestingly Gary Kurtz produced that movie after falling out with George Lucas over the direction of Return of the Jedi, and Frank Oz also stars in it.
The two main characters:
Jen (Sounds like Ren as in Kylo, or even Ben)
Kira (the original name for Rey)
Like Ben and Rey, they are two sides of something, and share a telepathic connection (dream casting it’s called in the movie).
The movie has their own versions of the Jedi and the Sith. One dark, and one light. The balance between the dark and the light is eventually restored by Jen and Kira at the end of the movie, who by that time have become a couple.
That’s what is unfolding before us.
Toosty-toes — that’s great.
Toosty-toes — that’s great.
They wrote themselves into a corner
Have Rey be a Skywalker, and forget the Rey/kylo romance, or,
Have Rey be a nobody, and tease a rey / kylo thing
Trouble is they never had a true villian, Angst Kylo is not that villian, a troubled character who kills for no reason will not end up with the hero.
would have been better to have kylo be a sidekick to the big baddie, and then we could have seen the internal conflict.
I think this kylo/rey thing will play out well on backpacks and sticker books for little girls
“It’s Twilight, Ya’all !”
A sidekick to the big baddie? You mean like Maul and Sidious, or Vader and the Emperor? I know what your problem is, you just want to see the same film play out again and again with only the most cosmetic alterations. As soon as they do anything different, you’re out of your comfort zone.
You kill it SO HARD I literally APPLAUD from my desk here.
You must not have watched the movie.
He’s one of those blind TLJ haters/keyboard warrior types. His comments are always like that. Absolutely the worst poster on these boards. This is nothing new for him.
He’s one of those blind TLJ haters/keyboard warrior types. His comments are always like that. Absolutely the worst poster on these boards. This is nothing new for him.
I love TFA, R1, and I think Han Solo has great potential. So yes, I do have a diverse opinion and I don’t just “hate everything”. That said, TLJ was the worst SW film in the recent era.
I did watch the movie, extremely closely. Again, the Force-Facetime moments rank high amongst the cheesiest I have ever seen, in any film.
Then you should watch more films.
I have just seen again; So intelligent, clever movie. Nothing is really just for the surprise, it’s logical development and more clever than 99% of the dumb “fan” expectations/demands, The movie is surprising because is much more intelligent than most of the fans
More intelligent like Inception ‘intelligent’? 🙂
More intelligent like Inception ‘intelligent’? 🙂
Ha ha ha! Funniest thing I’ve read all day.
The Last Jedi is a fever dream Finn is having while floating in his Bacta Tank.
Finn( in a state of delirium);” Leia…spaceLeia….Luke milking spacecow…..out of gas.. Atlantic City”
Poe;”poor guy, worse than we thought”
Leia ” I’ve seen this before, he’ll pull through)
I secretly suspected I´m really not that intelligent….now after years of doubt it is so great to know that sound inside my head was just a fly….. 🙂
and we’ve reached batman v superman levels of pretentiousness. look, i love this franchise as much as anyone but its just a fun space opera, not citizen fucking kane.
Are you on crack?
so there are just 2 groups of people in the world: those who agree with you, and those who are on crack? you are a genious ( but strangelly, you coldn’t get disney to let you write and direct do EP VIII)
Ho ho ho, Monsignor!
I love seeing you TLJ fanboys get so riled up and defensive! 🙂 Try watching a genuine masterpiece like BR2049 or Lawrence of Arabia.
Logistics? That word implies that there’s logic behind this script.
There’s not.
None behind your comments either.
…says the man whose head is so far up Lucasfilm’s ass that Pablo has blue feathers coming out of his ears.
That’s hilarious since I have also loudly voiced how I think Rogue One is a mess in the first half of the movie directly to him before.
Yeah, real suck up since he has R1 ranked higher than all but 3 movies.
but nice try
You lost me at movie rankings.
I give zero shits about anyone’s lists.
Will the intelligent comments never cease
He’s technically a “Disney” employee….so disregard the slant he shows on this site.
Oh, I know. It’s becoming more apparent that half the world works for Disney.
The word logistics doesn’t imply anything of the sort
say again… i don’t folllow
Solo trailer Friday Morning during Good Morning America,
The exact day theater owners are no longer obligated to run Last Jedi any more.
Disney PR is working overtime to get rid of the bad taste of Last Jedi
I wish them luck, they have a tough challenge ahead of them, just look at the comments here
That’s not remotely true at all, but you keep peddling your BS.
do you even follow this stuff?
Disney forced theater owners to show this for Four Weeks, for a certain number of screens. Thats it.times up. how can say BS when its black and white right in front of you. period
It will still be in theaters but watch Box Office Mojo to see the screen count drop.
Quinten Tarantino has been the most vocal about the strong arm tactics Disney uses to keep their films front and center.
Here is something else to watch, can Disney force the same per screen time limit deal with Solo?
Do you even follow this stuff?
Big movies typically have a standard thing where they have to be shown for a certain amount of time. It’s not unusual at all, to those of us with a clue who aren’t searching for reasons a successful movie is a failure.
PERIOD. You have no idea what you are talking about.
But thanks for playing!
He’s just making stuff up.
“…just look at the comments here…”
Yeah. The same comments, made by the same people over and over and over again. Was the movie divisive? Most certainly. Lucasfilm knew this going forward. None of this is a surprise to them. But for everyone that hates the film there is a fan that loves it. Most importantly, people are talking about it. To Lucasfilm, this is a situation much preferable to a movie where most fans found it to be ‘meh’ and aren’t talking about it at all.
I have been a fan for over 40 years, and I think I deserve better than what we got. And I am very hopeful the JJ can right this ship.
If you liked it thats great, insulting those who were let down is not
“…deserve…”
That’s an incredibly entitled mentality. I loved TLJ. So, did I get what I “deserved”? I suppose so. I’ve been a Star Wars fan since my father took me to see ESB in 1980. But this general idea that we “deserve” to get what we want out of film is…rather odd.
And disagreeing with you is hardly insulting you.
Chiming in as an advocate of the devil…
If it were art for art’s sake, I’d say the word “deserve” is out of place and would seem to evoke a sense of entitlement. But this is a product and we’re the consumers. If one shells out cash for a highly rated vacuum cleaner, they *deserve* one with the proper amount of suction. (Gotta love Dyson.) And if I found out that real consumer reviews of this appliance could have warned me ahead of defects, yet were stifled, I’m gonna feel duped. If I’m told that I’m mistaken and should buy the same shit vacuum cleaner over-and-over again until I convince myself it works, I’m gonna be really pissed.
I read that as avocado….
I just might change my user name to The Devil’s Avocado.
found on google
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9bd74559b5f5f3810cd3ee357f30fb7b912ed87ea32b4d72e9f4fbb1033dff69.png
But we’re still talking about art. Movies and vacuum cleaners are fundamentally different. One is in a better position to objectively assess the quality of a vacuum, a toaster, or a car. So yeah, if a toaster is advertised as being durable and operating properly, I deserve a product that matches that description – if I choose to invest in it, that is.
But art is much trickier and even a mass-market entertainment product like Star Wars is art. So, one can dislike – even hate – the movie, but any claims that the movie is objectively bad are defunct even before they get out of the gate. The same can be said for saying the movie is objectively fantastic. So yeah, saying that people got (or didn’t get) the Star Wars movie that they “deserved” is fundamentally meaningless. I guess I got the movie I “deserved” while others didn’t get the movie they “deserved”? This goes nowhere.
I think those feelings of deserving something also come from high expectations that were set by Lucasfilm. I realize that marketing works independently of the film-making team and all that jazz, but the almost-4-years-old TFA teaser #2 (which, for the longest time was practically the only few minutes of this trilogy that fans had to go on) sets the tone for a different narrative for Luke and the mystery-family-member he’s lovingly speaking to…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngElkyQ6Rhs
Fans were set up to believe that we’re going to be reunited with the empathetic Luke we know and love as well as his expanded family. Sure there’s room for him to be damaged and edgy, but this ad campaign re-assured us that our hero is mostly well in the head, and more-than-willing to pass on his teachings. Who is the Luke in this ad even talking to? Young Ben? I’m supposed to feel warm and cuddly in light of who Ben Solo becomes? Again… I realize that things change, and we’ve passed the hot potato to a new director with a different vision — but they really shouldn’t have gotten people’s hopes up in this manner without staying consistent to how you’re tugging on their heartstrings.
I’d like to think I’d be be able to recognize this disparity and empathize with those who felt cheated & expected something different, whether I enjoyed Rian’s take on it or not. Four years is a long time to hype a character’s return only to not have it jive with expectations that, once again, were set by Lucasfilm and not entirely by the imaginations of the fans.
It’s almost like a Mandella Efect, where people feel like a different Episode 8 with a much more mature and cohesive tone exists out there somewhere in the ether, but its frustratingly out of their grasp. That’s the best I can figure for what’s going on in their minds. We were misled.
That’s interesting, I hadn’t think about this teaser again.
Yeah… this trailer was a big deal. I think it’s etched in our subconscious more than we realize.
I love that trailer. I saw it premiere while standing on the main exhibit floor of the Anaheim Celebration. Being part of the zeitgeist at that moment was incredible. You’re right, we don’t really see the Luke that is narrating that preview, but I have no issue with that. Personally, I really like how Luke was portrayed. Was I a bit troubled with my childhood hero being in a rather bad place? Sure. But that’s an emotional reaction to the story rather than a fault of the writing or narrative.
But as you said, marketing is its own monster and the creative process will rarely allow itself to be hogtied by something spoken in a trailer. Even so, it’s quite possible (even likely) that as you pointed out, this was Luke speaking to a much younger Ben.
TLJ certain gave fans something that they didn’t expect, but they were not deceived, cheated, or betrayed. They simply saw a movie they didn’t like. I felt that way with the Prequels. I didn’t much care for them. Like a lot of people, I looked forward to E1 for years. I was disappointed in the movie. But that was it. No big deal.
“…people feel like a different Episode 8 with a much more mature and cohesive tone exists…”
Again, we’re talking about a subjective judgement. I found TLJ – despite it somewhat flat humor – to be very thematically mature; more so than much of what we’ve seen come from Lucasfilm in the last few years. That’s the beauty of art. Different folks see different things. I’ve seen folks crying at paintings that I would never take notice of. My buddy is absolutely nuts about the Grateful Dead but I’d rather go deaf than listen to them for more than half and hour.
That’s why I’m usually quick to debunk folks that state things like “It’s a bad movie, but it’s okay for you to like a bad movie.” – Because ultimately those statements are are dead on arrival.
When I saw “The Fifth Element”, which is tonally a crazy movie, I enjoyed it but thought to myself “Thank you Jesus that Luc Besson isn’t directing Star Wars Episode I” (oh the irony of that naive thinking). I can objectively appreciate that film for what it is (as well as completely understand why people hate it), but it would have been a terribly misplaced entry in the Star Wars universe if they made a film like that. Two decades later, Rian did it — he made something with a similar cadence to Besson’s wackfest, and while I can play nice and try (believe me, it’s hard) to objectively say it isn’t a bad film on its own, I have no trepidation in calling it out as a bad “Star Wars” film. It’s supposed to be part of a cohesive whole, but in the end it’s gonna stick out like a sore thumb and even drag down our appreciation of the films that bookend it.
I also have no problem encouraging you to tell your friend that Grateful Dead is awful — I’d rather listen to sound of my own tongue in a belt sander. 😉
In this case movies and vacuums are exactly alike…they both suck! lol!!!!
In this case movies and vacuums are exactly alike…they both suck! lol!!!!
Haha! That was pretty good.
Exactly!
The people who dislike it come into every article to say it over and over and they insult those who like it. So…get what you give.
“If you liked it thats great, insulting those who were let down is not”
As another fan for 40 years I couldn’t agree more. The only problem is “deserve” because for some that feeling has obviously created a sense of entitlement and expecatations that are not the responsibility of LFL to satsify…and some of the haters take that sense of entitlement to the extreme and just troll, insulting those who were NOT let down. “I’ve been a fan since whenever, I bought toys and books and comics, so I know best.” Not saying that’s you, but there are obvious just plain haters here, on Youtube, on RT and elsewhere.
I liked TLJ. I liked R1 alot more…as close as you can get to the original SW feel (in my opinion). I also hope JJ can right the ship, not because I thiink this ship is totally tits-up, but because it’s more fun when 88%+ enjoyed the movie.
i can get behind this statement….
Tell that to Rian Johnson. He had to unable comments in instagram because SW hooligans were telling him he deserved to die.
The only thing that makes me laugh about some haters is how they take their opinion so seriously. “I deserve better”, “they don’t have the right to do this”, “they’ll feel it when I stop buying toys.”. Just accept the truth: Anyone here is just an individual with an opinion. The fact that some people thing they can change SW destiny because they are the best fans is just ridiculous. Whether the film is objectively good or bad, Rian did the right thing by just giving a sh*t about fandom (exactly as Lucas did), because it’s just impossible to please fans, there will always be the haters around b*tching producers, directors or, in their worse times, child actors.
Tell that to Rian Johnson. He had to unable comments in instagram because SW hooligans were telling him he deserved to die.
The only thing that makes me laugh about some haters is how they take their opinion so seriously. “I deserve better”, “they don’t have the right to do this”, “they’ll feel it when I stop buying toys.”. Just accept the truth: Anyone here is just an individual with an opinion. The fact that some people thing they can change SW destiny because they are the best fans is just ridiculous. Whether the film is objectively good or bad, Rian did the right thing by just giving a sh*t about fandom (exactly as Lucas did), because it’s just impossible to please fans, there will always be the haters around b*tching producers, directors or, in their worse times, child actors.
The hate towards Jake Lloyd was sick IMO. The kid was innocent, probably has more acting talent in his little finger to most of those so called fans.
I get what you are saying…and for me the film would be great as a “dark horse” variant movie, but as a saga film and with soo much discussion about answers that they were involved in and teased people with….they certainly could have made some different choices. imo and I know that does not count for anything.
— I have been a fan for over 40 years, and I think I deserve better than what we got. —
You actually don’t ‘deserve’ anything. Sorry to break it to you. The world doesn’t pander to the keyboard clicker complaining about a movie.
you are right, it doesn’t pander to the keyboard clicker…but many of us whom supported SW for years, even when no movies were coming out and still spent thousands a year as loyal customers of a product…”deserve” a little something don’t you think?
People can say what they will, but In my little part of the world, I’ve never seen anything in SW as divisive as this movie.
No I don’t think we do. We’re still not entitled to anything. I’m one of those ‘loyal’ customers who has spent way more than I should have on Star Wars products. I don’t think they need to cater to my ideas. There’s a reason why they are filmmakers, and I’m not.
If you don’t like it, don’t watch, don’t buy merchandise. If you do, watch, buy merchandise. Vote with your money.
And FYI – Empire was just a divisive, there just wasn’t the internet for people to complain on.
Disagree with the comment on Empire. It was definitely seen as not as good in the immediate showings but very quickly that changed. I remember just being pissed, thinking they killed Han.
Yup. He thinks they are mad. They love all this. PASSION.
There’s truth to the notion that all press is good press — yes. But perhaps at some point it hits critical mass (if it hasn’t already) and becomes very bad optics. You don’t want to be known primarily as the franchise that revels in pissing off your fanbase.
lets be honest. there is no pleasing the fans. they would have to do the old books perfectly. and at that point they would loose the casual movie goer. casual fans would b confused about the vong and the solo twins. upset that chewie died in a book. so its piss off old fans and make new ones or piss off potential new fans and loos that potential income. from where i sit the only people who dont like the new movies are people who where under 25-30 when the origonals came out. the same people who followed the next 40 years worth of legends material. the kids who grew up on 1, 2, and 3 are somewhat split but out of all the people i talked to only one person under 30 dislikes the film.
so my point is disney made the right call and continues to do so. they have to make changes and to shake the tree. screw box office and screw the fans. at its base it is a good movie. no matter what they do people will be upset or but hert. if you like the film good if you dont fine ok but stop trying to tell us, the people who liked it that we are wrong. WE LIKE IT so what that should not change how you feel. you dont like it, i dont care i like it anyways.
You don’t like my post?
I am honestly just over people being buthurt about what they want vs what they deserve vs what they got.
Yet you felt the need to chime in (which is fine btw).
We’re all doing that here.
See how it works? See how opinions simply need to get out, even if they’re opinions of opinions?
Now imagine this — I tell you that you simply don’t understand my comments upon the first read, and I implore you to give my comments a 2nd or even 3rd viewing until you do. (At least you don’t have to waste $10-$15 per viewing here).
Insulting, isn’t it? I think so.
That’s why we simply won’t shut up about it.
But why when am I wrong for liking it or you wrong for not. i just think people need to talk about it instead of forcing others to take there own way.
I hear ya — That’s bound to happen in any heated debate.
That is awesome!!!! Too funny, nice job.
The Last Jedi is still outperforming Rogue One, and that ran for 20 weeks.
Rogue One was way more favorable to the audience. and the fans.
In fact the only hate i remember that film getting was a lack of an opening crawl
Well, actually it divided audiences over:
1. Flat characters, who we failed to connect with, and ultimately cared little for when they died
2. CGI – The Uncanny Valley
3. Poor script
4. Vapid music score
That aside, Box Office Mojo have a direct comparison between Rogue One, The Force Awakens, and The Last Jedi
You can clearly see The Last Jedi outperforming Rogue One on a daily basis. If a movie is still putting bums on seats, theatres will continue to show it proportional to demand.
yes sounds like you get what im saying LOL
disney has this playing on 4,232 screens, its been this number since the premiere. 4,232 screens. Opening day Brought in $12,129.00 per screen per day.
Now its at $2,806.00
Then Four weeks contracted play time will end Friday . Not BS
The next test of its durability will come Friday, when theater owners have the option to keep showing or not. They did during Rogue One, thats why that film had legs. It opened with 4,157 screens and when the four weeks was up dropped to only 3,162 screens, very good legs for theater owners to keep it on, butts in the seats
I’m not disputing the movie will be scaled down in theatres. That’s the norm with any movie.
My point is The Last Jedi is outperforming Rogue One daily, hence why it will continue to be shown for most likely months to come, even after the obligation period has ceased to exist.
I’m not disputing the movie will be scaled down in theatres. That’s the norm with any movie.
My point is The Last Jedi is outperforming Rogue One daily, hence why it will continue to be shown for most likely months to come, even after the obligation period has ceased to exist.
you said it better than I did I guess, someone called it BS haha
do I want Star Wars to fail – no, of coarse not
do I want Disney to take stock of the fan base split – yes
In four days we and Disney both, will know the real picture
Do you want Disney to overestimate the fanbase split? Yes.
Do you want Disney to throw away creator’s visions to please you? Yes.
None of which leads to anything good for the future of Star Wars.
you are aware that the fan base was just as split over the creators vision of the prequel movies are you not? or did you just forget about the trade embargo and Jar-jar
Yeah, what does that have to do with this? Nothing at all.
People were more split over that than this. Believe me, I was there on the Jedi Council Forums at the time.
You asked and I quote
“Do you want Disney to throw away creator’s visions to please you? Yes”
But his vision had people just as mad if not more.
And what did he do? He did what every single storyteller should do: tell his story and ignore what people say they want.
You give the audience what you think they need, not what they say they want. That is fanservice and it leads to poor storytelling.
A story that is satisfying to the loyal fans is not “fanservice” it’s telling a good story. Selfishly using the Star Wars brand to vandalize characters (and fan trust) is exactly what Ruin Johnson did. And this new Film is certainly paying for it.
If you are setting out to please the fans first, then you are doing fanservice.
An ARTIST has to be true to themselves and tell the story they think needs telling, damn the fans.
You can’t please everyone, so don’t try.
Right but not all ARTISTS are good storytellers. They might be great at ART that satisfies themself, but if they can’t engage others positively, then their work is rather masturbatory.
And as we have seen from the critical reviews and box office, he has succeeded.
It wasn’t for everyone, but good things rarely are.
Fanboys crying because they didn’t get Lando or a green lightsaber aren’t really worth worrying about.
–A story that is satisfying to the loyal fans is not “fanservice” it’s telling a good story–
Which loyal fans are you referring to? Only the ones that think like you? That want to see what you want to see? Because not everyone agrees. I had my issues with my movie as I have with every single SW movie, but fuck… take it for what it is. It was a good story. Whether it was what YOU expected or not, doesn’t really matter in the long run. You’re just a face in the crowd. And Disney already has your money.
But it had DARTH VADER KILLING REBELS IN A HALLWAY, so it was effin’ awesome!!!!! I saw that and I put down my gallon cup of soda and my garbage bag sized popcorn and clapped my hands! That’s what Luke needed to do in TLJ to the entire First Order then that movie might have actually been good!!! But no, Ruin Johnson doesn’t know how to please the fans at all!! EPIC FAIL!!!!
Didn’t stay no 1 at the box office for 3 months, failed to break $4bn, and couldn’t even deliver world peace.
#Turkey
When I saw Vader, I CLAPPED.
Glad to see you come to your senses….
Glad to see you come to your senses….
You should watch SC Reviews on YouTube. He comments on a number of different articles that clearly demonstrate TLJ is a financial failure.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYjZ89DFZ9_kR_RA-TXMdMw
But, I can only bring a horse to water.
The Last Jedi will finish its box office run with upwards of $1.3bn, placing it in the top 10 movies of all time. Any other movie with those kind of numbers would be lauded from the floor to the ceiling.
But instead, it’s getting compared to The Force Awakens. The Force Awakens is one of only 3 members to the £2bn box office club. Those movies are phenomena’s. They happen once a decade.
1. Avatar 2007
2. Titantic 1997
3. The Force Awakens 2015
The next movie on the list is $400million less than The Force Awakens, and like The Force Awakens was a reboot. It will be interesting to see how Jurassic World Kingdom performs at the box office. I’m guessing it won’t do nearly as well as its predecessor.
But, if Disney come out and admit they’re deeply disappointed with the box office figures, then I’m clearly wrong. That’s ultimately what’s its all about, Disney’s expectations.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dceac21ee4f2eb7277b2a2105d2b59bea9c872118813ec9b04b65fdf83ea5e97.png
I have given statistic after statistic but it doesn’t help, they are blind to reality.
Do what I do now, give up on them, no longer worth the energy to find, paste and give breakdowns on why this movie left up to 750 million on the table, and while the 7 apologists may not care.
Believe it – Disney does
Some folks just cannot accept reality. All we can do is bring a horse to water, we can’t make it drink.
The only challenge they have is how to wade through the stacks of money they made over the last 4 weeks. But some people are complaining on internet, so it was a total failure.
the movie is coming out in like five months, they have to put a trailer out asap.
The TLJ haters are super loud. They are still clearly in the minority, based on IMDB reviews.
“Disney PR is working overtime to get rid of the bad taste of Last Jedi. I wish them luck”
Lol! Good luck to you in your desperate attempt to make people believe TLJ was a failure 🙂
I’ll bet anyone a fine steak dinner that the Han Solo movie will be about how Emilia Clarke shows Han Solo the ropes, and thus quite boring.
while everyone else is pointlessly yelling at each other even though no one has any intention of changing their minds, enjoy this picture of billy joel looking like darth vader…
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bc82e4a4f0dafe2d4bb5f0f6632da7ebd9982c7010af1d93bb0ce0a2b6b4a0de.jpg
Still one of my favorite SW memes.
Haha!! Holy crap.
This one always makes me smile too.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a42dda14cef216a67722035a3ab23640ce9814198eda180e37882fe510e931b4.jpg
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cbdc5e717d61267ebf84bc439b78d1c30949c6820ca0c568ecdd55ca3a939a00.png
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/21c97a680b135f4cca15a12430b3b344256a27a0cb59e83f2a4456b82d5381dd.jpg
don’t share with Billy, that would send him over the edge! too funny!
You know, it’s not really a good sign for a director to keep having to explain every little thing in his movie.
Right, because directors never talk about their recently released movies. That never happens.
Who said that directors never talk about their recently released movies?
“You know, it’s not really a good sign for a director to keep having to explain every little thing in his movie.”
That’s what I said.
But who said that directors never talk about their recently released movies?
It was sarcasm. You stated that it’s not a good sign for a director to explain things in a movie they released. My point is that’s exactly what most directors do when they release a movie.
But it’s sarcasm that doesn’t apply, because I never said that directors never talk about their recently released films.
Rather, what I did say instead, was that it’s not a good sign for a director to have to explain every little thing about their film.
These are two different concepts, requiring different words, with different meanings, in two different sentences.
To elaborate further, contrary to directors simply talking about their films on a PR tour, Rian Johnson has had to explain specific criticisms of the film. For instance, why he killed Luke in the way that he did, why Leia flies in space like Superman, why he dismissed Rey’s parentage, why he didn’t explore Snoke’s origin, etc. These aren’t just comments talking about the film. These are specific explanations for common criticisms of the film. Effectively, Rian Johnson is on an explanation/apology tour for the film. He’s not just talking about the movie he’s made.
He’s not explaining every little detail of his film. He’s discussing certain aspects of his film and his reasoning behind presenting them in the way he did.
He’s not apologizing for anything. Nor should he have to. It’s no different from Lucas talking about his films or JJ talking about TFA.
He’s not explaining every little detail of his film. He’s discussing certain aspects of his film and his reasoning behind presenting them in the way he did.
He’s not apologizing for anything. Nor should he have to. It’s no different from Lucas talking about his films or JJ talking about TFA.
Very specifically, he’s addressing the major criticisms of the film, and explaining why he made them they way he did. He’s not just talking about the movie, like any director would.
In fact, it’s so bad, that there’s now a rumor that there will be an Episode 8.5 novel, which I suppose will help Rian explain all the flaws in the film.
https://www.cosmicbooknews.com/crazy-rumor-says-disney-fixing-star-wars-last-jedi
Even the stars in the film don’t understand what Rian has wrought.
https://screenrant.com/last-jedi-leia-force-powers-daisy-ridley/
Daisy Ridley was questioning Leia’s force abilities during the making of VII. Had nothing to do with Rian Johnson. It even then it was admittedly due to her newness to the Star Wars mythos, not being a big Star Wars fan prior to landing the role.
Fair point.
The way people are going on about TLJ Im guessing they think its some sort of art house movie? I thought Blade Runner 2049 hit the nail on the head (what a film) when it comes to art house sci fi. Star Wars was always a popcorn romp/western in space. Fun and fast with great characters and I didn’t get that from TLJ tbh.