THR: Rian Johnson Discusses His Lack of Involvement with Episode IX, Dark Luke, and More

Episode VIII

Ever since Rian Johnson was hired on as director and writer for The Last Jedi, there has been speculation back and forth on his involvement in the final chapter of the sequel trilogy. Now that JJ Abrams is officially back on board for Episode IX, and pre-production ready to ramp up, a lot of that speculation is finally being put to rest. THR got a chance to interview Johnson while he was speaking at an Irish cultural event in Los Angeles this week.

 

 

Johnson on his involvement (or lack thereof) in Episode IX:

J.J. Abrams is doing a third movie. I’m not involved in it. They’ll be writing their own story but continuing on with what we did.

 

And there you have it. Whether he was ever to be involved in any serious capacity or not, it seems now that Abrams is back, Lucasfilm has made it Abrams’ film. And that makes sense. JJ isn’t some new guy coming in to pick up where others left off. He doesn’t need a guiding hand to keep consistency. He started this trilogy, let Johnson play in the world for the middle chapter, and now is returning to close it.  It is his story to finish.

 

 

But Johnson didn’t only discuss his non-involvement in the next film. He did discuss his own film and Star Wars in general as well.  In particular, he deftly refuses to answer a straight question on the swirling speculation of a potential Dark Luke Skywalker that was spurred on by a recent poster featuring Luke’s face with both the heroes and villains of the film.

What do you think of the speculation surrounding the latest poster and has Luke gone over to the dark side?

Having been a Star Wars fan myself for the past 40 years, having spent most of my life on the other side of the curtain, I know the anticipation and the guesswork and theorizing is all part of the fun and game of it. So I love it. I love seeing what people are thinking, seeing what they’re guessing, seeing what they’re anticipating.

 

So, Johnson loves our speculation and fan theories, but don’t expect him to confirm or deny them. Whether Luke does or does not go dark in this movie, Johnson wants us to go in with all options open. Which is great. Even though there is a large segment of the fanbase that would likely not be happy with a descent into darkness for the man who “is a Jedi, like his father before him”, having no idea where his character is going to go in this movie is sure to be thrilling.

 

 

And, to that end, Johnson discussed how each new movie changes our understanding of the saga as a whole.

Part of it is re-contextualizing past movies. How does yours do that?

Each new film hopefully re-contextualizes what came before it. That’s part of the game. Yes, it’s a continuation of not only The Force Awakens but also of the legacy leading up to it.

 

Whether it’s a big revelation like Dark Luke or Darth Vader being Luke’s father, or something as small as character moments that reveal relationship dynamics and motivations in past films we hadn’t noticed originally, each new film not only brings its own story, but fundamentally changes the way we view past stories.  And that is as it should be.  If these stories and characters were static and superficial, they wouldn’t be compelling.

 

Check out the full piece over at THR for the full interview, which also contains Johnson’s thoughts on the location at Skellig Michael and how they used the architecture there in the design process for some of the old Jedi Structures seen in the film.

 

 

+ posts

126 thoughts on “THR: Rian Johnson Discusses His Lack of Involvement with Episode IX, Dark Luke, and More

  • October 21, 2017 at 8:29 pm
    Permalink

    So for ep9, J.J. is the pilot.

    • October 21, 2017 at 8:53 pm
      Permalink

      I think it could have been worse… Colin could have been the pilot!

      • October 21, 2017 at 10:30 pm
        Permalink

        I wonder if the scene Colin requested is still in the film

        • October 21, 2017 at 10:52 pm
          Permalink

          the scene where rey is riding a speeder bike flanked by rancors that she had been training? 😉

          • October 21, 2017 at 11:06 pm
            Permalink

            In all seriousness, a subplot of “Solo” could involve Jabba’s acquisition of the Rancor. It’s not anything that we really want or need to see, but that hasn’t stopped the writers before.

          • October 22, 2017 at 7:36 am
            Permalink

            I WANT TO SEE THIS HAPPEN.

        • October 21, 2017 at 10:57 pm
          Permalink

          From what I can tell the scene Colin requested was a shot for IX, not an added shot for VIII.

        • October 21, 2017 at 10:57 pm
          Permalink

          Luke in high heels? Probably not.

  • October 21, 2017 at 10:51 pm
    Permalink

    Don’t be distracted by Luke. The surprise reveal of this film is not centered on Luke.

    (I think.)

    • October 21, 2017 at 11:50 pm
      Permalink

      Snoke is really Jar Jar?

      • October 22, 2017 at 12:12 am
        Permalink

        Don’t be distracted by Snoke either.

        • October 22, 2017 at 1:52 am
          Permalink

          It’s all a Force vision from Luke predicting the future. So he’ll go back in time and stop it all from happening. Han lives! 😛

        • October 22, 2017 at 3:34 am
          Permalink

          Rey is Ben´s sister! I knew it 🙂 no, in fact, I was tinking all these years she´s Luke´s daughter. Now I am convinced she is a nobody. The parents aren´t important (to the makers, at least….)

    • October 22, 2017 at 3:26 am
      Permalink

      I am hoping the surprise will be centered on Finn given that he got little screen time in the trailers.

    • October 22, 2017 at 9:04 am
      Permalink

      I think you are right. I feel like the Rey’s parents and Luke turning dark are just huge red herrings to get us speculating and the true revel will be something none of us saw coming. I mean before empire there weren’t hints of Vader being lukes father, it was a sunrise that recontextualized the previous movie, as it seems RJ plans to do with TLJ. I think the twist (if there is one) will be thematic, about the entire resistance or the nature of the force or the Jedi. I don’t think it will be snoke or Luke or Rey just saying “I’m actually _____” kind of twist

      • October 22, 2017 at 1:32 pm
        Permalink

        Even Darth Vader didn’t know he was Luke’s father. David Prowse didn’t find out until he saw the movie in the cinema.

        • October 22, 2017 at 8:37 pm
          Permalink

          Yeah maybe Vader didn’t know. If you want to believe that, then that’s fine. But I think maybe he didn’t want to pay back years of child support.

        • October 23, 2017 at 1:35 pm
          Permalink

          Maury Povich knew before Vader did.

      • October 22, 2017 at 5:51 pm
        Permalink

        I think the intent (before Carrie died, at least) was to lay out a dark path for Leia. In all the marketing of this film, her composure and clothing remind me so much of Senator/Chancellor Palpy during his manipulative rise to power.

        Luke confronted his father (and the Emperor) and passed the test. Leia never did — she’s carrying scores of unresolved baggage from the original trilogy, now compounded by the events of TFA. It’s one justification for why Luke is in hiding, and why he (or someone else possibly) would put his offspring (presumably Rey) in hiding for her own protection. He knows that the entire surviving Skywalker family is fractured, and they all need to have a confrontation… and it won’t be pretty.

        That’s what I like to think about when it comes to Star Wars. I try to avoid the echo-chamber nonsense that’s often triggered by the silly trolling of Mark Hamill, Rian Johnson, and Pablo H — it’s their job to throw you off the trail (all in good fun, of course).

  • October 22, 2017 at 2:47 am
    Permalink

    I can understand why RJ isn’t involved in Episode Nine. The guy must be burnt out after TLJ. I mean; despite me and others criticizing/ praising directors, these shoots, especially for big tentpole movies are super time consuming. So, I totally understand him not wanting to be a part.

    That said, if TLJ is a smash hit(which I predict it will be), I would love to see RJ involved in the writing process with Chris Tierio as that is a dynamite team. 🙂

    As for Luke Skywalker; in terms of him being dark side; I am going to reserve judgement until I see the movie. Do not get me wrong; I have my own preconceptions of what Luke should be. But I acknowledge that this Luke that we are seeing isn’t the Luke I am accustomed to seeing.

    In other words, this is NOT Legends Luke. This is the New Canon Luke. And do not get this conflated; me acknowledging this isn’t me having to accept this Luke, for I and everyone else have a right to be critical. Or heck, praise the direction.

    But really, for Luke and just the entire New Canon: I just accept it as an alternative timeline; a different series of events that have unfolded. And to me, Legends timeline being the main timeline.

    I do not expect everyone to agree nor would I want. That is how I feel. Because, canon is what one makes of something. Nobody should be beholden to prescribe to someone else’s definition of canon.

    • October 22, 2017 at 3:31 am
      Permalink

      Bravo, my friend! I totally agree with you. I see the word “canon” overused lately and for one and only purpose – money. I also agree, that every fanboy is free to choose his/her personal canon, including or excluding stuff they like. Some likes everything, others just this or that trilogy, hexalogy, or just the Skywalker saga, some will include the cartoons while others would find it too cartoonish to add it to the movies family….this way everyone is happy and no complains of work you don´t like or agree with…

      • October 22, 2017 at 5:03 am
        Permalink

        Yup. Legends to me never really died; it just had an ending. And to me, I found it the natural course of events for SWs. If people disagree, cool. Because, to be honest; I feel no connection with this NC. It just just OT stuff and I love the OT, but I won’t lie and say it is my favorite era.

        That would be KOTOR. And really, I came to the realization that if I was to treat this NC as the only thing that was relevant, I’d go mad. Hence, why I see it as an alternative timeline. And Legends as the main timeline. This isn’t me saying that one is better or individuals are idiots/ smart for liking/ disliking one or the other. It is me not aligning myself with one side and is showcasing some nuance with this.

        Because, many people on this site, proponents and critics have gone down the route I have stated. And really, I grow tired of it. So in other words; do not cement one’s self to canon.

        Canon is what one makes of it. It is why Aftermath for me works both for the ST and in the context of the Thrawn Trilogy. The first book that is.

      • October 22, 2017 at 9:10 am
        Permalink

        After all the silliness of the PT, games, novels and what not… I definitely created my own canon. Much retcon… such plot!

      • October 22, 2017 at 2:50 pm
        Permalink

        As far as I feel (and advise), nothing is “really canon” until you see it in a movie. So Saw wasn’t “really canon” until he showed up in Rogue One. And even if such a character or element appears, it doesn’t necessarily mean that all events tied to that character/element outside of the movie become “really canon.” So the appearances of the Ghost and Chopper in Rogue One do not necessarily confirm that everything about Star Wars Rebels is “really canon.”

        I know this sounds upsetting, but consider the appearance of the Outrider in the Special Edition of ANH. Shadows of the Empire is no longer considered “canon.”

      • October 23, 2017 at 12:11 am
        Permalink

        Allow me to clarify, that LF much as I disagreed with them scrapping Legends, I got why they did it. They wanted to make things cohesive. But so far, at least for the ST; they basically have treated it as second fiddle, using as a crutch to add key details of the films without actually needing to add them.

        TFA’s politics and the status of the galaxy was totally glossed over. And while the OT did do this, you could argue that it didn’t need to. Why? Because, Luke’s story was one instance in a larger conflict, but more so; it did just enough world building.

        I wasn’t expecting PT levels of world building and political themes for TFA( dear god, no); but sometime along the lines of ANH, with a little bit extra. But really, it is LF being too scared to even do that.

        But to be fair; it seems like they are learning their lesson, somewhat. RO; had a lot of cool political aspects that to me fleshed out the NC and the lead up to ANH very well. And given RJ’s love of the PT and political aspects, I am expecting a lot of key details WILL be covered in TLJ.

        So really, as indifferent as I am, I am cautiously optimistic and hopeful for the franchise. Even if Abrams is coming back. Because, I know he won’t repeat TFA again. Not with even fans of the movie threatening to speak out. 🙂

    • October 22, 2017 at 7:36 am
      Permalink

      People can’t argue if you prefer Legends over the new films. That’s a personal choice and opinion. Good show.

    • October 22, 2017 at 8:34 pm
      Permalink

      Of course it’s your own choice what you consider Canon and what you don’t consider Canon. As a fan you can write your own fanfiction and consider this your own personal Canon if you want. However, when talking with other fans about Canon they can’t know what you consider to be “real” Star Wars and what you consider “Legends”. Among fans Disney’s Canon will be the lowest common denominator for years to come no matter what parts of it you chose to acknowledge and what parts you chose to ignore. You will also have to accept the fact that the farther away your Canon moves from the Disney Canon the fewer releases will be relevant to you. So yes you can chose your own personal Canon but fanfiction will never be “the real deal” in the eyes of the community.

      • October 23, 2017 at 12:03 am
        Permalink

        Thank you. Of course, I recognize the fact that LF with these new films; the releases will be less relevant. I am seeing this with Han Solo. But to be fair; I never really even liked the character and it was Lord and Miller that interested me. Same with TLJ as I do love Rian Johnson as a film and I like what I hear.

        I just do not have that much attachment to this NC. That isn’t me lowballing the NC as it has some great points. Books, like Thrawn, Bloodline etc. are excellent pieces that I can read over again. And heck, I have been enjoying the comics, like Vader Down, Kanan and even the main SWs book. But to me, I just find it bland overall. A lot of it clearly being held back due to the MB. Perhaps, my thoughts will change when TLJ comes out, but as of now; I am not as invested in grabbing all the NC stuff. Really, only the stuff that I want.

        And I do not write fan-fiction. I never had. And really, I find people’s polarization on Legends fascinating. I won’t get into it here,

        And finally, casual fans; I’m indifferent. For granted, I get why they would be, as their perspective is only tied to the films. And I was at one point a casual movie fan. For me, Legends made me appreciate SWs a lot more than the movies as they had fully fleshed out GL’s world and took it beyond. Sometimes to success and plenty of times to failure.

        Overall, my thoughts may change when TLJ comes out, but really I won’t be one of those fans who defend this NC or blindly follows the crowd or one who shouts at anyone who goes against the grain.

        • October 23, 2017 at 5:59 am
          Permalink

          While I don’t agree with many of the ideas the NC has introduced us to I wasn’t a huge fan of many EU books, games and comics either. However, the thing that usually kills any form of Canon for me are contradictions and as far as I am aware of there are no contradictions in NC as of yet which is why it feels easier to me to accept Disney’s “reality” of Star Wars. In the NC I only have to ignore the things that I don’t like but I don’t have to chose between different timelines and events which I both like but which are contradicting each other.

          For me Star Wars has always been about the Star Wars Universe as a whole, rather than idividual stories taking place in said universe. I did a presentation on this topic back at university in gamedesign classes. I felt that many people overestimate the importance of story in movies and games so to put it into perspective I used SW as an example. When I did my presentation TFA had not been released yet and I compared the regvenue the “Story” of Star Wars had generated with the amount of money the “universe” of Star Wars had created. The SW “story” was represented by money earned by the movies while the SW “universe” was represented by the money earned with toys, merchandise, games,… The movies (excluding TFA) made about 5 Billion USD while the franchise as a whole made about 20 Billion USD.

          Of course this is only a very superficial comparison but it demonstrates that individual characters and their plots are often overrated. Harry Potter wasn’t so succesful because of the books’ epnymous protagonist but because of the magic world of wizardry. The “Alien” movies only have one thing in common, which is the antagonistic creature. The Dark Souls game series has a story so obscure even devoted fans usually have difficulties explaining it to someone unfamiliar with the franchise. It’s the notoriously difficult and skillbased gameplay that makes people buy these games and combine Demonsouls/Darksouls/Bloodborne into one franchise even though they have completely different stories…

          Long story short. To me Star Wars needs to feel like Star Wars. That’s all I care about. There is this short story in Vader #25. It was basically a story about Tuskenraider building, burning and worshipping an effigy of Vader. The story is only told in pictures but it elevates the epicness of Vader’s character even more (which I thought was impossible). Seing him worshipped as some sort of god of carnage within the Tusken community in the archetypical SW setting that is Tattoine felt extremely satisfying. I immediately accepted it into my personal Canon.

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/55a1696d95227e272e6ac0aedb49d50eaa81fb8c268b1d281d61dee05cc075cf.jpg

          On the other hand there are stories in the Vader comic series where he fights against gigantic, biomechanical whales. These creatures felt more like some kind of domesticated Zerg taken from the Star Craft universe but they do not belong in the SW universe, therefore I chose to ignore them.

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9c74abba97df14c3309da7ed9159ecc9ca1c78e189493921ff6dee306221fea6.jpg

          While ignoring these comics migth leave some empty spots in my understanding of what happened to Vader after Ep III it certainly doesn’t affect my overall understanding and love of the galaxy far far away. Sry for the long read and grammatical errors, English is obviously not my first language

    • October 23, 2017 at 5:55 pm
      Permalink

      I’m there with ya, Kyle Katarn lives!

      • October 23, 2017 at 6:07 pm
        Permalink

        Kyle was awesome. Easily one of the best Legends characters. I just wish we could have gotten the New Jedi Order during this ST. Because, in truth; my biggest gripe with TFA was that it was just a reset button. I am holding out hope that by the end of this ST; we may get to see the New Jedi Order or some take on it come about.

        So who knows? Maybe, Kyle could reappear somewhere down the line?

  • October 22, 2017 at 3:33 am
    Permalink

    I am the only person that finds it strange that Lucasfilm doesn’t at least have a broad outline for the entire trilogy? Seems like a very ad-hoc approach to story telling and mythos building for this franchise. One of the things I liked about the pre-Disney franchise was this feeling that there was already a story/grand plan in Lucas’ head just waiting to be revealed.

    • October 22, 2017 at 4:49 am
      Permalink

      Lucas made it up as he went along.

    • October 22, 2017 at 11:08 am
      Permalink

      Not only Lucas made it up as he went along, and things kept changing in every stage of the process, right up to the final edit, but you have to consider that the “Grand scheme of things/broad outline” approach seldomly works.
      Even when you are writing a short story, you may go in with a broad idea of what you want to do but, most of the times, you’ll find out that the final result is pretty different from what you had in mind at the beginning.

      Also, this kind of stories (Hero’s Journey/Coming of Age tale) already have a “broad outline” of their own, so the less they restrict themselves creatively, the better it is.

    • October 22, 2017 at 11:13 am
      Permalink

      I 100% agree. TFA is storywise the worst SW film ever made. I hope TLJ is ably to redeem this to some degree But still not having a overall story at the time ep.9 is ready to start is very strange indeed.

      • October 22, 2017 at 3:48 pm
        Permalink

        Haha. Whatever.

      • October 22, 2017 at 5:39 pm
        Permalink

        I would ignore Mr. Sharp’s snakiness. He’s a real odious individual when his ego is bruised. But I digress.

        While I agree with you that TFA is bad, to call it the worst SWs film ever made is a bit of hyperbole. Seriously, for all the problems I had; at the very least its production value was great; the acting was also fantastic.

        And it sets up the events of the trilogy decently. For granted, I argue this could have been done better. And I will go as far to say that had the movie kept parts of the novelization; the movie would have been improved in my view.

        But compared to ATC; yeah, no. I dare anyone to watch that garbage film. And heck, it barely connects to ROTS. So yeah; I get it, man. I do not like TFA as well and really do believe there could have been a better movie. But to say this is the WORST SWs movie is just silly.

        • October 22, 2017 at 5:55 pm
          Permalink

          The panting attitude of Boyega always irritates me. He’s sometimes overacting. it’s one of the problem of the movie. and the third DS aka Starkiller Base. I always have found people less flamin 7 than the presuels. And it(s strange because at leas PT bring a new stoy. People always disliked the overacting of Jake Loyds and are fine withe Boyega’s one.
          Constitency is needed sometimes.

          • October 22, 2017 at 6:14 pm
            Permalink

            Boyega, in my view, is utterly wasted. I love John Boyega ever since I saw him on Attack the Block and I contend that his performance there was better than TFA. He was a too much comedic relief and really the concept of him being an ex-stormtrooper was almost thrown to the side. For example, he never fought Phasma in TFA and really his decision to defect is just a bit too fast and the motivations were shaky.

            For example, imagine if Finn’s friend(I forget his name. He’s from Before the Awakening) was in the movie and was killed off by Phasma. Perhaps, his friend hesitated in killing civilians. Finn could want to join the Resistance to get revenge/ justice.

            And in terms of competence; have him shoot a blaster. Or perhaps, if we want to keep the movie as it is, why not have Finn be the one to best Kylo Ren in Lightsaber combat. Here, the argument of Kylo being injured holds true and Finn at the very least has combat training as a soldier. Plus, it would have actually completed his arc as at that point he wasn’t going to run. Overall, I do think he will be much better in TLJ, but really Finn was just a wasted character. Not as much as Poe, but still I feel bad for Boyega.

            And heck, all the new cast involved.

          • October 22, 2017 at 6:25 pm
            Permalink

            i am agree 100%. You said it. Easy and lazy. i really hope JJ will stick is finger out for IX. But now he is stuck to be creativr. a re-hash of a re-hash will not pass. At least Trevorrow is out. i was really nervous after he made JW with screenwiter who should have work on 9

          • October 22, 2017 at 6:28 pm
            Permalink

            Yeah i hope they do justice to phasma finn and poe in 8

          • October 22, 2017 at 6:18 pm
            Permalink

            As for Starkiller base, I just found it lazy. The homages to ANH where fine, until that moment. And really, a lot of it is due to a lack of explanation. People cite ROTJ having the same issue, and while I can see that; at the very least, I can tolerate it due to Palpatine being an ego-maniac.

            And really, what does that say about the First Order. Why would they use such a strategy that had already failed them? There’s history repeating itself and then there are idiots failing to understand history. And the FO were like that. If the movie had attempted to explain why it was constructed, like maybe Hux was the one who spearheaded it and did something with it: like Kylo Ren hating the concept, cool.

            But other wise; it was unneeded. Just have a giant fleet or a mounted laser canon on a ship that draws upon solar energy.

          • October 22, 2017 at 7:22 pm
            Permalink

            Or it was started by the Emperor and the FO just inherited it …

          • October 23, 2017 at 6:08 pm
            Permalink

            “Why would they use such a strategy that had already failed them?”

            Starkiller Base wasn’t my favorite part of TFA, but to say is was a failure is a bit of a stretch. It successfully destroyed the New Republic government along with a sizable chunk of the Republic fleet. From what I can see, it’s use put the First Order within striking distance of securing control of the galaxy.

          • October 23, 2017 at 3:20 pm
            Permalink

            Uh, Boyega, for one, is giving a fun, dynamic performance. Panting makes sense given he is running for his life.

            And Jake Lloyd OVERACTED?

            His nickname in 1999 was Mannequin Skywalker…wooden…the OPPOSITE of overacting.

        • October 23, 2017 at 5:53 pm
          Permalink

          So, second worst?

          • October 23, 2017 at 6:05 pm
            Permalink

            If you are talking about the second worst SWs movie, I’d need to really think about it. Production wise and acting, If I were to judge this movie, I’d rate it really high.

            But story and characters; so far I’d rate it low as I find this movie incomplete. And the inner movie fan just found this to be a glorified TV pilot/ diet Fellowship of the Rings. Thus, I’d put this movie being the second worst with a giant asterisk.

            As in, once TLJ comes out and watch it; I will watch TFA again to see if that changes. Because, in truth; LF has created quite a weird entity with this ST. A lot of it being they want to copy Marvel Studios.

            When, I argue they shouldn’t. In truth, they should have looked at LOTRS or better trilogies to co-opt from.

            TLDR: Production wise and Acting, no. Story and characters: Yes, but with an asterisk of I will need to re-evaluate the movie once the sequel comes out.

          • October 23, 2017 at 9:07 pm
            Permalink

            I hear you, some of the excuses for TFA being bad is that is “the first part of a trilogy”, well, so we’ll get to see if TFA stands as a decent movie (will enver be good) when TLJ comes out. Somehow I have the feeling that it will look even worse, but let’s wait and see.

          • October 23, 2017 at 10:45 pm
            Permalink

            Yeah, I have heard some terrible excuses. And really they boil down to special pleading. Namely, that this movie was to remind people why they had loved SWs. That is such BS. Yeah, the PT were polarizing(in my view bad). But nobody should be reminded why SWs is great. Because, SWs is great. And really, yeah; TFA could have been bad/ poorly received. Nothing in life is ever certain.

            But given how GL wasn’t going to be involved, the chances of TFA being awesome were rather high. Note I do not hate GL. I won’t come to his defense for a lot of the dickish things he has done over the years, but really he was a better ideas man than a storyteller. But I digress.

            And more to being the “the first part of the trilogy”, while I can see people’s thoughts to this; I have just seen this done better. Lord of the Rings Fellowship for me comes to mind. LOTRS to me is a better trilogy than SWs, but that film if you watch it isn’t a TV pilot.

            It was layered, with us the audience getting to know Middle Earth and the Fellowship. And just had some amazing setup to come. If TFA truly wanted to be the “First part of a trilogy”, LF should have taken inspiration from Fellowship. Instead, they chose the Mystery box route/ MCUing it. Which okay, fine; but that won’t make someone, like myself, like it. If anyone else likes it, cool. But personally, I just have seen this idea done a lot better.

          • October 24, 2017 at 1:08 am
            Permalink

            Agreed. The “reintroduce people to Star Wars” argument is a pretty silly defence to TFA’s unoriginality. They could have made a film fully reminiscent to the OT by making it similar in style and tone, but not by copying the plot…
            That’s not reintroducing. That’s plagarism.

          • October 24, 2017 at 1:13 pm
            Permalink

            Yup. It is why that I see TLJ hopefully learning from TFA in that it takes ESB’s tone and atmosphere but just forges its own path. That being LF has hooked its audience. Inefficiently, but it is what it is. As for plagiarism, I’m not too sure.

            ANH you could argue is a remake of The Hidden fortress. And thus we get into a slippery slope with films that borrow aspects from other movies. But to get personal, I didn’t mind the homage until Starkiller base which was tacked on.

            Combined with the lack of context about the galaxy, I was disappointed. And confirmed that LF were too afraid to even do that. Even though the OT had political discussions as well.

          • October 24, 2017 at 6:30 pm
            Permalink

            You could call ANH a sci-fi fantasy remake of THF of some sort, but still it was very far from plagarism. Lucas took inspiration from it and added way enough for it to be able stand on its own. Unlike TFA, that not only copied from the same genre, but from the same series…

            But I’m pretty sure TLJ or any modern SW in general won’t do this again, maybe with the exception of ep IX. Why? Because only JJ Abrams dares to blatanly plagarise other people’s work and call it his own. I very much doubt there is anyone in Hollywood who could get aways with it besdies Abrams…

          • October 25, 2017 at 12:39 am
            Permalink

            I agree that TLJ won’t do this again. The simple fact is that RJ isn’t the kind of guy who would want to taint his career. Especially, one that is still young. Plus, if LF did this, then the veil of nostalgia is no longer going to shelter them from the backlash. And this is even from most TFA supporters. This is an anecdotal, but I have friends who would be livid if TLJ pulled a TFA and did ESB. Especially, considering how my said friends loved RO a lot.

            But we will wait and see. Overall, I am super pumped. Episode nine; I argue is a tricky beast. We still need to see TLJ in order to get a sense of what this film might be. And really, much as I am not a fan of Abrams; he isn’t stupid.

            Yeah, ST Into Darkness is a blaring example, but given how much criticism he has received and how open he has been about doing something different, I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Could this be a marketing ploy and Abrams very much will do what he did for TFA? Of course. I ascribe this to RJ. But I am cautiously optimistic. Especially, given how Chris Tierio is involved.

            Now, the worry I do have is Justice League as he is writing that movie. BVS, I do not count it as that was David Goyer’s mess. But if JL sucks, then yeah; I’d be skeptical.

          • October 24, 2017 at 4:07 pm
            Permalink

            I keep waiting for the Lotr of Star Wars movies, ( I agree that cinema-wise, they are better than SW, at least tha the PT and New trilogy). Maybe we’ll get something of that quality in the next trilogy, once Iger and Kennedy are gone?

        • October 23, 2017 at 5:55 pm
          Permalink

          “snakiness” “odious”

          Haha. Why? Because I often disagree with you? What is snaky about that? I think you might need to make a long arm and grab a dictionary.

        • October 24, 2017 at 1:00 am
          Permalink

          Storywise AotC is better imo. As bad as that movie is, it still at least have some point to make. I can’t really say the same about TFA…

    • October 22, 2017 at 2:22 pm
      Permalink

      I always thought “what i told you was true from a certan point of view” was Lucas directly explaining to the audience that he decided to alter the story.

      • October 23, 2017 at 3:19 pm
        Permalink

        Congrats. you understand Star Wars.

    • October 22, 2017 at 2:37 pm
      Permalink

      Have you read Splinter of a Mind’s Eye? That was what Lucas originally supposed to be the sequel to ANH…

      Lucas was making it all up as he was going along.

      • October 22, 2017 at 3:45 pm
        Permalink

        That’s not technically true. Splinter of the Mind’s Eye was intended to serve as a sequel of sorts; but only if Star Wars flopped at the box office. If ticket sales were low, Splinter was optioned to be made as a tv-movie due to what would have been much lower production costs. So, it was Lucas’s worst-case-scenario sequel, but rather far distant from what he envisioned for the big screen.

        • October 23, 2017 at 3:18 pm
          Permalink

          Accurate.

      • October 23, 2017 at 3:19 pm
        Permalink

        But yeah, he was making it up as he went along. THEY ALL DO.

      • October 23, 2017 at 5:50 pm
        Permalink

        Love that book

    • October 22, 2017 at 7:01 pm
      Permalink

      Lucas made it up as he went along, too. Darth Vader being Luke’s father, Leia being Luke’s sister, those were all things that just popped into his head. Ahsoka, her too.

      • October 22, 2017 at 7:20 pm
        Permalink

        As true as that is. Times were different then he didn’t have the luxury of planning ahead to the extent that Disney era Lucasfilm do.

        Having said that, I think this image that they (LFL) like to present of the directors having full reign etc is likely complete bovine excrement. Case in point, Leia was set to have a much bigger role in Episode 9.

        I guarantee, as much as I can personally guarantee anything, there is a rough outline of who’s who and what’s going to happen with them throughout the course of the trilogy and whilst that might be subject to alteration all that really remains is for the directors and their writers to fill in the blanks.

        • October 23, 2017 at 3:18 pm
          Permalink

          SIGH………………
          When they said Leia was going to have a bigger role….Treverrrow had already been working on the script!

          LOL, come on.

          • October 23, 2017 at 6:59 pm
            Permalink

            And ….. ?

          • October 23, 2017 at 8:07 pm
            Permalink

            And you apparently can’t even follow your own post?

            “Having said that, I think this image that they (LFL) like to present of the directors having full reign etc is likely complete bovine excrement. Case in point, Leia was set to have a much bigger role in Episode 9.”

            They said that based on his script and what they had been working on. There was a script which had her having a big role. So your claim about bovine excrement, is just that.

            And your guarantee is worthless bc you literally don’t have a clue.

          • October 24, 2017 at 6:54 pm
            Permalink

            Calm down dear boy. You may have a pertinent point but it gets lost in the hateful way you speak to people.

          • October 25, 2017 at 3:12 pm
            Permalink

            Asking you to remember what you posted 1 reply earlier is not hateful. You may think that condescending tone makes you look better, but it doesn’t.
            I apologize for pointing out that you didn’t bother to think before typing.

          • October 25, 2017 at 6:56 pm
            Permalink

            Again with the disrespectful attitude.
            I’m more than happy to engage in a constructive discussion with anyone and will do so in the same respectful manner that I would use face to face. As far as I’m concerned name calling belongs in the schoolyard.

          • October 25, 2017 at 8:30 pm
            Permalink

            I agree, which is why I didn’t call you a name. Once again, trouble following the conversation.
            You called me “dear boy” in a condescending manner, so kindly look inward before you point your gaze at me about name-calling.

          • October 25, 2017 at 8:35 pm
            Permalink

            🙂 And … I’m out

      • October 23, 2017 at 3:15 pm
        Permalink

        Yes and no. Lucas didn’t expect to go past Star Wars. So it had to be self contained. He added those ‘twists’ when he knew he could make more. His prequel story outline was rock solid before he wrote the scripts. The scripts sucked and the films sucked. But the prequel story was ok.
        These new movies have no story.

        Yet.

        • October 23, 2017 at 3:17 pm
          Permalink

          That’s false. He had ideas for what would happen, but the twists that TUD refers to happened quite late in the day.

          because he made up each movie as he went along.

          “His prequel story outline was rock solid before he wrote the scripts.”

          This is complete BS. 100%.

          He wrote each movie one at a time and whatever outlines he had didn’t help if you actually know what happened when those movies were made.

        • October 23, 2017 at 5:28 pm
          Permalink

          Still, Lucas later tried to act as if he had some big pre-planned saga for the OT, and I’m just saying that that is patently false.

        • October 23, 2017 at 5:50 pm
          Permalink

          “Lucas didn’t expect to go past Star Wars. So it had to be self contained.”

          Eh. Not technically true. If anything, he was
          more ambivalent about the chances of additional movies. And these feelings waxed and waned depending on how the production of the film was moving along. He was also at work optioning sequel rights long before Star Wars hit theaters. He was prepared if Star Wars was a one-off, but it’s not accurate to say that he simply didn’t expect to make any more additions to the story.

    • October 22, 2017 at 9:21 pm
      Permalink

      yeah. im getting pretty disillusioned by how everyone involved at Disney keeps insisting that there’s no plan, each director is going their own way, they aren’t working together as a unit, etc. Why advertise constantly that you dont know what you’re doing?? I mean, i get it that they’re fighting back against people that claim the directors have no artistic freedom, but the approach they’re taking is killing confidence in the franchise and, quite honestly, stupid.

      • October 23, 2017 at 3:16 pm
        Permalink

        That doesn’t mean they don’t know what they are doing. It means the storyteller has freedom.
        The end result of the movie being good is all that matters.

    • October 23, 2017 at 3:12 pm
      Permalink

      Exactly. The prequels sucked but at least there was a real story there. From a storyteller. These films are assembly lined. Making it up as they go. Like Lost.
      I’m not sure what the story is here. The first order seems like a much less threatening empire. The Death Star in Star Wars was threatening. It’s still great when it gets blown up. Starkiller base was not threatening. It’s bigger and blows up a few planets and No one in the audience felt anything. It was a bore. No tension no emotion no stakes. That’s JJs problem. He tries makes film by numbers instead of creating emotion organically. They work on paper. Mathematically. But they don’t earn any of the emotion he tries to show. Hux screaming like hitler at his first order battalions doesn’t equal us giving a crap.

      • October 23, 2017 at 3:15 pm
        Permalink

        haha, you should go read about the making of AOTC and ROTS.

        AOTC was hastily put together at the end after reshoots and adding new sequences.

        Anakin’s entire turn to the dark side was redone in ROTS after people at LFL said they didn’t understand why he turned.

        • October 24, 2017 at 4:20 am
          Permalink

          Shocking details indeed. I never read those books.

      • October 23, 2017 at 5:41 pm
        Permalink

        ” Starkiller base was not threatening. It’s bigger and blows up a few planets and No one in the audience felt anything.”

        Don’t speak for everyone.

        • October 24, 2017 at 4:25 am
          Permalink

          Actually Bobby, I tend to agree with him. Think about it. Yes we knew that this could pose a huge galactic problem but at best, it was quickly and quietly done. At least Leia & Obi-Wan showed much more emotional investment in those planets that got destroyed vs seeing some bland expression of power disguised in the form of a planet. The base idea is good. I did not get to witness just how crushing the FO can be. It’s merely hinted at on Takodanna, the fight between Finn and the trooper was (mmm, ok) and that’s practically it. Just merely assembly lined.

          • October 24, 2017 at 5:46 pm
            Permalink

            The destruction of the Hosnian system was, frankly, handled badly. We the audience were never given a clear reason why we should care (beyond the general feeling that “blowing up inhabited planets must be unethical”). The place should have been established before; we should have found out that this is where the parliament of the New Republic resides. Or some character we care about, like Leia, might only just have escaped the destruction. Or at the VERY LEAST they could have kept the deleted scenes where Leia sends a representative to the Hosnian system, the young lady the camera (now inexplicably) focuses on just before the planet blows. Then there would at least have been some character there that we cared just a little about, or even recognized at all.

      • October 23, 2017 at 5:45 pm
        Permalink

        “That’s JJs problem. He tries makes film by numbers instead of creating emotion organically. They work on paper. Mathematically. But they don’t earn any of the emotion he tries to show.”

        You’re not really saying anything here. Perhaps you didn’t connect with any of the characters in TFA, but plenty (maybe most) of folks did. Stop pretending that your reaction to the movie was some universal feeling that everyone agreed with.. Because it’s not.

        Lucas’s creation of Star Wars was about as “by numbers” as you can get. Nearly all of his characters and their arcs were drafted along the lines of long-established archetypes and tropes. Was it creative? Yes, absolutely. But it was just as much done according to a very established plan.

      • October 23, 2017 at 5:52 pm
        Permalink

        The prequels just suffered from horrendous execution as films. The books are much better, in my view, of conveying what GL wanted to. The crux of your argument stems from JJ basically upping the ante when it comes to recreating the events of ANH and then as a result you equate that to paint by the numbers due to a lack of emotion or tension.

        The part on upping the ante; I can see that. And the issue I find lies with just a lack of context. I tired watching this movie back to back with ROTJ and it just fails. Given the immense time gap, the context needed to bridge the two trilogies was needed.

        And I’m not talking about Luke, Snoke, or Kylo. But basic questions; like the status of the galaxy, who are the First Order, New Republic and Luke’s New Jedi temple. The movie tires to do this in the opening crawl, but it really just poses more questions, much like TPM’s crawl.

        If Abrams, Kasdan and Ardnt were smart, they would have actually used this whole bigger and better aspect as a thematic lining and critique of said concept. What do I mean? Take Starkiller base. Why not have Hux be the one who spearheaded the project?

        That would have been interesting as given how the Empire failed prior, perhaps Hux has some delusions of grandeur, thinking that the FO won’t fail again. Something backed up by that crazy over the top speech he gave. And heck, have Kylo Ren object to that. That would be an amazing homage to ANH where Kylo and Hux’s relationship was the opposite of Tarkin and Vader’s.

        As for where I disagree, I do believe there are moments where the film does exhibit this. The Takodana stuff with Rey realizing she could never go home. That scene, while I found the dialogue shaky, the emotion was there. The issue was that I found it felt incomplete.

        As in, I never really got to know who Rey was. Had there been some interactions on the Falcon and have a slower more intimate moments, then yeah; that scene would have been better.

      • October 24, 2017 at 4:15 am
        Permalink

        This is one comment of many I’ve been longing to read. Even now when ever I tune into Episode 7, there’s no emotional bond with the people dying due to SKR base or when Hitler Hux screams at his battalions some boring monologue that leaves me embarrassed for him actually lol. I understand JJ’s intentions but storytelling requires much more imagination. Most of the characters felt underwhelming, i was missing the ominous presence that the Empire gives off really well in episodes 5 – 6! Too late for us all now?

    • October 23, 2017 at 3:14 pm
      Permalink

      No, because that’s pretty standard.

      George Lucas did the same thing with the OT and the PT, despite what he wants people to believe.

      Hell, Vader wasn’t Luke’s father until at least the second draft of Empire and Leia wasn’t his sister until ROTJ was written.

      Sounds like you should actually delve into the history of the making of these movies because you have been fed some classic Lucas PR BS.
      And let me be clear: there is nothing wrong or abnormal about making it up as you go along. That’s literally what almost everyone does because planning it all out leads to all sorts of problems.

      I recommend The Making Of Star Wars by JW Rinzler (he did one for each movie) and How Star Wars Conquered the Universe by Chris Taylor. Highly insightful.

      • October 23, 2017 at 5:46 pm
        Permalink

        “I recommend The Making Of Star Wars by JW Rinzler (he did one for each movie) and How Star Wars Conquered the Universe by Chris Taylor. Highly insightful.”

        I’ll second all of those works. I really wish Rinzler was continuing to issue volumes on Star Wars movies.

        • October 23, 2017 at 6:14 pm
          Permalink

          He did one for Force Awakens but LFL shelved it for the time being.

          • October 23, 2017 at 6:29 pm
            Permalink

            Yeah, I remember reading that. I sure would like to see Lucasfilm reconsider that.

        • October 23, 2017 at 6:31 pm
          Permalink

          Same.

    • October 28, 2017 at 10:10 pm
      Permalink

      I get from what people say Lucas made a lot up as he went along. However, I still agree with you that he had most likely a broad concept in his head, maybe an overall arc. He’s changed bits over the years (such as Leia becoming Luke’s sister), but the broad strokes are still in place and like any artist he was free to make changes.

      I’m enjoying the new Saga films, but have more interest in the Anthology stuff to be honest.

  • October 22, 2017 at 1:05 pm
    Permalink

    Good. I’m happy they are going back to jj and not using some new director. He gets Star Wars and started the new trilogy era so he gets to finish it. I think this dark Luke trend will go away when we see more of the tv spots and finally the actual movie.

    What reason is there for Luke to join the dark side if his own nephew destroyed his whole Jedi temple. I just think Luke is done with the Jedi and is in a grey period. Figuratively and literally

    • October 22, 2017 at 4:36 pm
      Permalink

      Yeah got to agree JJ is the right choice.

      Also tend to agree with you in regard to Luke, he’s got the weight of the galaxy on his shoulders and he’s tired of it all. Maybe Rey will awaken him from his depression and we’ll see the old Luke return at the end. I still hope to see the green lightsaber light up as the signal for his return as a Jedi.

      • October 22, 2017 at 5:28 pm
        Permalink

        To add to this, I think Luke is inexperienced. He never had a mentor for long at all in the flesh to train him and to fight alongside. Luke was kind of winging it after ROTJ. He knows that, and that’s probably one reason why his Jedi school fell apart, got corrupted by Snoke.

        Luke may be an old guy now, but he probably still is very much a padawan. That sucks and he knows it. 🙁

        • October 22, 2017 at 5:48 pm
          Permalink

          In no way Luke could be still a Padawan after confrontating 2 Siths and resisted to the Dark Side seduction. Even if he turned his mind the second he was hitted by the light strikes of the Emperor. I always thought the training of luke was off-screen between IV and V, teached by Obi Wan. Lucas always blurred the timeline IMO, and who knows How much days Luke spent on Dagobah ? I think Luke is more a self-made Jedi. But definitely not a Padawan. At least for me.

        • October 22, 2017 at 7:11 pm
          Permalink

          Luke is upper middle-aged

          • October 22, 2017 at 8:10 pm
            Permalink

            I a probably going to die upper middle aged then 😛

      • October 22, 2017 at 6:08 pm
        Permalink

        Me too. I wanna see old Jedi master luke back in action. I think we will with him and Rey taking on kylo and snoke. Yes I’m sure he still has the green saber unless he made a new one. It would be cool to see a different color too

    • October 23, 2017 at 4:18 pm
      Permalink

      You make it sound as if it’s his choice? Luke using the dark side or being influenced by it can be involuntary. Rest assured what ever brush up he has with the dark side will be temporary, Rey will show him the way back and remind him who the bad guys are, namely the Nazi’s that are killing his friends.

      • October 24, 2017 at 12:59 am
        Permalink

        “You make it sound as if it’s his choice?”

        He absolutely does. The idea of choice is one of the main threads following the Skywalker saga. Anakin turned to the dark side by choice. Sure, circumstances might have nudged him in certain directions, but when it came down to embracing the dark side, the decision was his. The same goes for Luke. Luke chose to defy the Emperor and refuse to give in to hate. The characters in these movies are ultimately responsible for their own actions; not simply subject to the whims of the galaxy around them.

        • October 24, 2017 at 4:16 pm
          Permalink

          I take your point but going a little dark and getting a little pissed isn’t necessarily voluntary. It’s why the Jedi didn’t fall in love and make connections. A true Jedi would have moved on and started over after loosing his school, with new resolve. Luke was always emotional and could have easily went a little dark and possibly bled his own saber crystal red (he wears a red crystal around his neck). That doesn’t mean that he made some fateful decision like killing his parents or younglings signaling the crossing of a point of no return. He goes into exile to contemplate the force not trusting his own power any more.

          • October 24, 2017 at 8:27 pm
            Permalink

            “I take your point but going a little dark and getting a little pissed isn’t necessarily voluntary.”

            Totally. I agree. We see Obi-Wan get ticked. We see Luke really upset a few times and even strike out in anger. But I think that’s distinctly different than going to the dark side. That seems a deliberate choice in allowing anger and fear to control you.

            ” A true Jedi would have moved on and started over after loosing his school, with new resolve.”

            That’s hard to say. Luke, while a Jedi, certainly

          • October 25, 2017 at 9:00 pm
            Permalink

            Possibly more pressure than any other Jedi has ever been under for sure, being the last of his kind and all. I’m sure he tried to rebuild the order with some tweaks to the dogma, like allowing attachments, but in the end he’s human & started his training late. It’s exactly as Yoda foretold, Luke has been tested by the dark side and now we’ll get to see him return in full glory and I’d wager just in the nick of time. It’s going to be great fun watching him come around and then eventually hand out some much needed ass whippings to the murderous Nazi first order punks. In the end perhaps he’ll learn the lessons he needs to once again embrace the Jedi and teach Rey how to move forward with balance. I wish I knew more about the “bleeding” process for Kyber Crystals in the new cannon. Does it take intent and focus or does it happen like Sith eyes, instantly upon letting the dark side creep in? Surely something significant happened after the massacre other than remorse to send him into self-exile? Did he ignite his saber only to find his crystal had turned or did he have a temporary breakdown with intent on getting revenge and invite the dark side? Only 50 more days till we find out!

          • October 25, 2017 at 9:50 pm
            Permalink

            “I wish I knew more about the “bleeding” process for Kyber Crystals in the new cannon. Does it take intent and focus or does it happen like Sith eyes, instantly upon letting the dark side creep in?”

            I have no idea. I’m actually not all that fond of the concept of these crystals having some sort of reciprocal relationship with their users. Of the various new ideas introduced to Star Wars, that’s one of the very few things I don’t like. But…whatever…not really all that big a deal.

            I just don’t want to see a Luke who has turned to the dark side. He passed that test in ROTJ. What I can imagine, however, is a Luke who’s been under such duress as a result of what’s happened that he’s exiled himself in order to isolate himself from anything further that might drive him over the edge. Maybe that’s what you’re talking about. I could go with that idea. After all, Ben was probably as close to a son as Luke was likely to get and…well…nothing hurts like losing your child. And I’m glad I’m not speaking from experience.

            “Only 50 more days till we find out!”

            It’s going to be a long damn 50 days.

          • October 26, 2017 at 12:49 am
            Permalink

            Honestly the only reason I’m going there (Dark side Luke) is because of the Funko Luke toy and the red crystal seen around his neck. That along with the marketing (poster & Imax display) are pretty convincing in terms of Luke having some encounter with his own dark side. That said, you’re correct, he already passed that test and as a result saved the galaxy through trusting in the force. No way will we see any sort of total fall or Luke passing a point of no return. I have total confidence that all this dark side business is designed to make it all the more dramatic when he returns to the fight.

      • October 28, 2017 at 2:03 am
        Permalink

        I think Luke has seen both sides and chooses to stay neutral. Like anakin saw the Jedi as lost maybe so does Luke from a certain point of view…

  • October 22, 2017 at 3:29 pm
    Permalink

    Luke didn’t fear the strong raw power, but does fear it now. Yoda does say that fear leads to the dark side.

  • October 22, 2017 at 8:40 pm
    Permalink

    Have you ever wondered how much the fans might have changed parts of the sequel trilogy? Maybe there were outlines that Snoke was Plagueis when they shot TFA but when fans brought up his name in multiple theories they dropped the idea and turned him into a completely new character. This could also be why the directors seem to make up the story along the way rather than planning it out carefully like the MCU that never tried to hide Thanos’ identity.

    • October 22, 2017 at 10:32 pm
      Permalink

      or JJ is great at setting up mysteries but always leaves them open ended so who ever comes next has to solve it.

      • October 23, 2017 at 5:47 pm
        Permalink

        That’s what I’m afraid of for 9, I wonder how many things will he leave unsaid at the end of the trilogy

    • October 23, 2017 at 2:44 am
      Permalink

      I don’t think the fans have any real impact on how these movies are made. Star Wars movies (or any movies for that matter) aren’t made-to-order. I’m sure that the folks at Lucasfilm have a very general sense of what the public would like to see, but that’s about it. Nobody at Lucasfilm is reading boards like this and changing a story thread because Baron_Complianer or Sith_Lord_Revan is pitching an online fit. It just doesn’t work that way.

      • October 23, 2017 at 2:56 pm
        Permalink

        Lucasfilm is absolutely reading boards like this. And while they aren’t made to order, they cater to fans in a way that Lucas never did. He made the movies he wanted with the stories he wanted to tell. For better or worse. The real issue is that there is no storyteller here. I liked TFA but there is an anemic quality to it that comes from the fact that the film was made for the prime reason of profit. Not an artist with a story to tell. It was made by committee, trial and error, filtered and dissected and assembled.
        Rian at least has a vision for this film, though it’s clearly cribbing from empire as TFA cribbed from the whole OT.
        What conserns me is continuity. Jj hashed out a beginning Rian takes it to unexpected directions and now JJ will land it.
        Making shit up as you go isn’t way to tell a story worth telling.

        • October 23, 2017 at 3:10 pm
          Permalink

          “Lucasfilm is absolutely reading boards like this. And while they aren’t made to order.”

          Baseless speculation and even if true, that doesn’t mean the people who write the movies are.

          Lucas included Jango and Boba Fett because the fans liked Boba Fett.

          You’re entire thesis is wrong, speculator, based on nothing but your dislike for TFA.

          And breaking news: they ALL make shit up as they go.

          Especially George Lucas.

        • October 23, 2017 at 3:49 pm
          Permalink

          So much wrong with this response…

          “The real issue is that there is no storyteller here.”

          Sure there is. The folks drafting the ideas, writing the screenplays, and producing/directing the movies are the storytellers. Let’s get past this idea that Lucas did everything himself. Movie scenes didn’t simply spring out of the guy’s head onto the screen. The prior Star Wars movies were heavily collaborative efforts with even the writing and story-mapping shared amongst dozens of people.

          “…the film was made for the prime reason of profit. Not an artist with a story to tell.”

          These things aren’t mutually exclusive. Lucas made his movies to make money. Did he want to tell a story? Sure. Everyone who makes a movies does. They also want to get paid. Star Wars wasn’t some artsy idea that just happened to make slews of money. Lucas was keenly interested in making as much as he could from his endeavor.

      • October 24, 2017 at 9:23 pm
        Permalink

        I’m pretty sure Pablo Hidalgo is up on fan-theories and wants… He knows S.W., backwards and forwards.

    • October 23, 2017 at 8:08 am
      Permalink

      I don’t think Abrams and Kasdan knew or gave a flying f about Darth Plagueis.

    • October 23, 2017 at 3:08 pm
      Permalink

      No, I’ve never wondered that at all because JJ and Kasdan didn’t know who Plagueis was.

      because they wanted to make their own villains.
      Bc Plagueis is dead dead dead.

      • October 24, 2017 at 4:29 pm
        Permalink

        I would really love to see your secret behind the scene sources that allow you to rule out all the possibility of Snoke. Surely the Storyteam at LF never ever brought up Plagueis when coming up with ideas for the sequel trilogy… I doubt that you have ever been involved in the creative process of doing a movie or a game. You would be surprised how many things are made up on he spot an what whacky ideas are out there before they settle for a final screenplay.

        • October 25, 2017 at 3:16 pm
          Permalink

          Um, a lifetime of paying attention to how movies are made? Watching the interviews and behind the scenes stuff? Witnessing a video where Kasdan had NO CLUE who Plagueis is?

          The fact that Pablo Hidalgo has stated they didn’t know who he or Jacen or ANYONE from the EU was.

          JJ and Kasdan have said they literally just walked around, talking and brainstorming ideas and writing the movie like that. That’s not the kind of environment that leads them to Plagueis.

          Oh and don’t forget that they have stated time and again that Plagueis is dead. His mention was only meant to seduce Anakin, nothing else. They wouldn’t retcon the prequels.
          And you would be surprised at what creative processes I have been involved with.

          But in this case, I just pay attention. Try it sometime instead of lashing out at the person giving people a reality check.

          • October 25, 2017 at 3:37 pm
            Permalink

            Oh wow, Kasdan and JJ didn’t know anything about Plagueis so you automatically assume that noone at LF ever mentioned Plagueis and said: “Hey what if take a deeper look into this Plagueis character who had his own book in the EU.” A lot of EU characters are coming back in one form or another but of course, they completely ignored Plagueis, the great evil behind the evil emperor. Remember how the idea to shoot R1 was out there for years before they actually turned the concept of a relatively “random” Lucasfilm employee into an actual movie? I have seen enough pitches and have worked with enough companies as a freelance artist to know that many of the concepts that are explored never make it into the finished product. That doesn’t mean that these concepts aren’t tested in one way or another before they are abandoned. Just look at all the material they replaced in R1 that was basically finished. Look how many changes they made to the Han Solo movie judging by the massive reshoots. My colleague at work happens to work on a figurine for the upcoming Han Solo movie that we might never get to see in the movie (like Constable Zuvio). Things are not set in stone in the Disney SW era. I am not lashing out against you giving a reality check, I am correcting your believe to know everything that happens behind the scenes because you saw a making of video. Before a movie is made they pitch hundreds of ideas. The favourite of those ideas leads to dozens of screenplay drafts. The finalized screenplay draft still leaves room for interpretations depending on the director. Keep in mind that JJ and Kasdan didn’t even have a final backstory fleshed out for Snoke when they wrote TFA which is why RJ had all the freedom in TLJ to do with Snoke whatever he wanted. So please tell me again why you are so confident that the idea of Plagueis was NEVER an option.

          • October 25, 2017 at 8:43 pm
            Permalink

            Kasdan and JJ wrote the movie. They came up with it. I never said no one mentioned it, but they came up with their own stuff.

            Pablo said they didn’t know who he was. A few times. So I am not assuming. I am repeating what someone in on the process has said. Sorry if that hurts your theory, but it’s true. Check a tweet of his on 12/4/15,

            I am not believing everything bc of a behind the scenes video. The video in question specifically outlines what they did and how.

            If you are alleging that John Knoll and the rest of LFL are liars for stating out Rogue One came about, feel free. I will just sit here and laugh at you.

            The only one in need of a reality check is you.

            yeah, concepts and stuff don’t always make it to the final product. I never said they didn’t. You are on a tangent.

            Zuvio was never going to be a big part of TFA. he was a background character with a scene or two who got cut. Happens all the time in every single franchise.

            This movie was written under a more intense deadline so dozens of drafts is unlikely in this case.

            “So please tell me again why you are so confident that the idea of Plagueis was NEVER an option.”

            Because there is a VIDEO of a clueless fan asking Kasdan and he has NO IDEA who Plagueis is.

            Also, bc Plagueis is dead dead dead.
            Reality hath been checked.

            Do me a favor, please. Watch the Plagueis scene from ROTS again.

            Show me where it says he can keep himself from dying. Tell me the line of dialogue.

  • October 22, 2017 at 11:54 pm
    Permalink

    I’m totally fine with JJ finishing up with the trilogy. I’m not ok, however, with Rian not taking any role in writing the script or general treatment. It’s honestly really concerning to see there’s a purposeful lack of continuity involved in something that fundamentally relies on continuity. I’ve been a huge defender of everything Star Wars, including TFA and the prequels, until this point. It just strikes me as a really haphazard and potentially damaging way to make a trilogy that’s so important to so many people, and honestly desperately needed from a cultural & mythological standpoint.

Comments are closed.

LATEST POSTS ON MOVIE NEWS NET