J.J.Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan and Michael Arndt Reveal New Secrets about The Force Awakens!

In the latest two Entertainment Weekly articles by Anthony Breznican we get more information about crucial scenes from The Force Awakens. If you haven’t seen the movie yet, stop reading now.

 

After a Writer Guild screening of The Force Awakens J.J. Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan and Michael Arndt answered some questions concerning the mysterious force vision.

 

SPOILERS!

 

The sequence starts with Rey, finding Anakin’s and Luke’s former lightsaber and isn’t exactly a flashback, because it contains a vision of the future, too.

J.J. Abrams reveals that three actors lend their voices for that scene, that are quite familiar to us.

Ewan McGregor, Frank Oz… and a clever editing movie also brought the late Alec Guinness, who died in 2000 at the age of 86, back to the Star Wars universe. […]“You do hear a little bit of Yoda. You hear Luke yelling out, ‘Nooo!’ from that moment in Empire. And you hear Obi-Wan at the end say, ‘Rey … these are your first steps,’” Abrams says. “Here’s the cool part. We asked Ewan McGregor to come in and do the line. And he was awesome and we were very grateful. He was incredibly sweet and handsome, and all that stuff. Then he rode off on his motorcycle. Literally the coolest voice over actor ever.”

Ewan

But who said “Rey”?

As they worked on editing the dream sequence, Bryan Burk, a longtime Bad Robot collaborator and one of the producers of the film, surprised Abrams one day with the gift of a single word: Obi-Wan Kenobi’s voice saying the name “Rey …”

“I said, ‘That’s cool, is that the thing from Ewan McGregor?’” Abrams recalled. “He said ‘No, we took a line from Alec Guinness saying ‘Afraid.’”

Frank Oz the famous puppeteer who also gave his iconic Yoda voice for The Force Awakens may appear in Episode 8, as well.

“He was incredibly generous and came in to Bad Robot, where we had a recording area, and he was doing Yoda, saying a number of lines we gave to him,”[…]That means, maybe, we could get even more of the character’s spirit in the films to come. Writer-director Rian Johnson (Brick, Looper) begins shooting Episode VIII next month.

Read the full article on EW.com.

 

R2-D2 & C-3PO

The next article contains some background information about the actual writing process of the three writers.

R2 has his own awakening and many fans asked why he got out of his Stand-by mode.

“I had originally written R2 and C-3PO showing up together, and Larry very intelligently said, ‘You want to keep them separate from each other. And of course I’m like, ‘No, no, no, Larry. You don’t get it at all!’” Arndt joked, drawing laughs from the audience – as well as the screenwriter of The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi sitting beside him.

Then Arndt says he got it: R2-D2’s arrival had to be presented as a kind of delayed gratification, building up the audience’s expectation before the droid rolls out and starts beep-blooping.

Since the first act of a trilogy is about the character introduction they had an emphasis on the first appearance of those characters we know.

Since The Millenium Falcon, Leia, Han,C3PO and R2 had their big stage in the movie, Arndt talks about his difficulties to fit in Luke Skywalker.

“Early on I tried to write versions of the story where [Rey] is at home, her home is destroyed, and then she goes on the road and meets Luke. And then she goes and kicks the bad guy’s ass,” Arndt said. “It just never worked and I struggled with this. This was back in 2012.”

The trouble was a simple case of upstaging. “It just felt like every time Luke came in and entered the movie, he just took it over,” Arndt said. “Suddenly you didn’t care about your main character anymore because, ‘Oh f–k, Luke Skywalker’s here. I want to see what he’s going to do.’”

04 R2-D2 Rock compound

But back to R2 and how he got the important puzzle piece that led to Luke:

“But the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant R2.

“BB-8 comes up and says something to him, which is basically, ‘I’ve got this piece of a map, do you happen to have the rest?’” Abrams said. “The idea was, R2 who has been all over the galaxy, is still in his coma, but he hears this. And it triggers something that would ultimately wake him up.”

You can read the full article here.

 

+ posts

471 thoughts on “J.J.Abrams, Lawrence Kasdan and Michael Arndt Reveal New Secrets about The Force Awakens!

  • December 20, 2015 at 9:18 pm
    Permalink

    It seems Arndt is far more involved in this script then what I thought. It seemed like it was JJ and Kasdan and Arndt was just given a writing credit. This article and some other stuff coming out over the last week or so makes it seem his script influenced this film far more than I initially thought,which to me means Lucas’ ideas, at least generally, are pretty present in this. Not that it matters in the end, its just curious to hear all the different reports and then see Arndt actively discussing the movie.

    • December 20, 2015 at 9:43 pm
      Permalink

      Any time a director decides to rewrite an existing script, the script automatically has to go through WGA arbitration. Which involves looking at all the previous drafts vs the final script to see who contributed what and make sure proper credit is given.

      When the poster was released and I saw Arndt’s name listed, my first thoughts were “Well, they didn’t completely throw out his draft after all. Interesting”

      • December 20, 2015 at 10:10 pm
        Permalink

        Yes, but you also have known instances of writers receiving credit when almost nothing of their script is used. And in other instances you have writers who helped rewrite a script or contributed greatly without wanting and/or receiving credit for it. It happens. So for me, it was up until this week and now Arndt himself talking about the script and the film that leads me to believe his involvement was much more than advertised. Especially when Disney is promoting this film as JJ and Kasdan walking around writing the script which goes on to further separate it from anything Arndt and also Lucas did.

        • December 20, 2015 at 10:50 pm
          Permalink

          It amazes me how many cooks were in this SW kitchen and it still felt like a retread as fun as it was/is.

      • December 20, 2015 at 10:48 pm
        Permalink

        I think they probably kept the bones of his script but then added in all the ANH references which made it feel like a partial remake to anyone over 20.

    • December 20, 2015 at 10:06 pm
      Permalink

      I really wonder if Lucas’ influence on the story is far greater than he claims and he just said ‘Don’t tell anyone I worked on the stories’ because of all the hate that gets thrown his way.

      • December 20, 2015 at 10:27 pm
        Permalink

        Thank God GL had no influence on the story, or else Kylo Ren would look like Anakin in ROTS and Finn and Rey would look like Anakin’s and Padme’s “romance” in AOTC. Not to mention all those cartoonish CGI planets and exotic aliens. I’m glad that TFA just pretends the prequels never existed (except for that ironic reference to the clone army of course).

        • December 20, 2015 at 10:30 pm
          Permalink

          Dude, that’s acting and directing you’re talking about, not ideas and themes. Lucas wouldn’t have had a hand in directing his actors. That was what Abrams was hired to do. And when it comes down to ideas and concepts, few people are more talented than one George Walton Lucas, a genius that only happens to be the maker of this whole “little” universe.

          • December 20, 2015 at 10:47 pm
            Permalink

            I would love to know what Lucas had in store. Remember his biographer who had seen the 80’s sequel script synopsis’ and the only one to do so said they were far better than the previous 3 films.

          • December 20, 2015 at 10:50 pm
            Permalink

            Yeah, me too. Although Lucas is a terrible communicator (which hinders him as a director greatly) and not the best screenwriter around, when it comes down to creating original concepts and ideas, the guy is a certified genius.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:53 am
            Permalink

            Agreed. We’ll probably never know unfortunately how good or not his synopsis is/was. : /

    • December 20, 2015 at 10:34 pm
      Permalink

      Not just Arndt, but a huge amount of EU aswell. I think they put everything in this movie which was possible. Still a lot of people complain.

    • December 20, 2015 at 10:45 pm
      Permalink

      I wonder how much of that is to save face though. From reports things weren’t good when Arndt was in charge and Arndt being who he is they probably didn’t want his rep tarnished. I personally feel his script would have been quite different and possibly more effective as it didn’t rely on the OT characters. The ANH references seem more JJ influence IMHO.

  • December 20, 2015 at 9:20 pm
    Permalink

    Cool. I can’t wait to see it again, and again…

  • December 20, 2015 at 9:25 pm
    Permalink

    I thought R2D2 was “awaken” by the force through Luke or the presence of Rey. That map was specifically created for her. Lor San Tekk held onto one piece of the map while he was on the same planet as Rey, and R2D2 held the other portion, for when the time was right Rey would follow the map to her destiny. Maybe I am reading too much into it.

    • December 20, 2015 at 9:35 pm
      Permalink

      completely agree.

    • December 20, 2015 at 11:03 pm
      Permalink

      I think they simply didn’t want to reveal it yet. I also believe he wasn’t awoken by Rey herself but by the LIGHTSABER she was carrying.

      • December 20, 2015 at 11:09 pm
        Permalink

        Ok, so like if this particular lightsaber is so powerful, how come it didn’t stir anything special in Luke in ANH?

        • December 21, 2015 at 2:37 am
          Permalink

          It’s funny how reverential Luke’s lightsaber is in TFA when Anakin’s in AOTC was treated like a joke.

          • December 21, 2015 at 10:03 am
            Permalink

            Well to be fair this one had a helluva history behind it.

  • December 20, 2015 at 9:46 pm
    Permalink

    Ok.. Now it makes sense why Luke had little screen time. He would have overshadowed the new characters or taken over the movie.

    Can’t wait for Episode 8 where Luke continues to train Rey ( The youngest and the only surviving padawan of the new jedi order)

    I really hope Finn becomes a jedi but it doesn’t seem likely.

    • December 20, 2015 at 10:02 pm
      Permalink

      Luke couldn’t come to the rescue. It would’ve been the equivalent of Yoda rescuing Luke on Cloud City. Heroes have to solve their own problems.

      • December 20, 2015 at 10:13 pm
        Permalink

        The same reason Rey and Han bonded so fast.. Han’s death (as a father she never had) needed to have impact on Rey because a hero (aka a Hero’s Journey) needs a life altering event.

        • December 20, 2015 at 10:52 pm
          Permalink

          Agreed. Plus there’s also the mentor archetype, of which Luke had 2. Looks like this will also be the case for Rey (Han and Luke; can’t think of too many better mentors to have. The girl’s lucky!)

    • December 20, 2015 at 10:39 pm
      Permalink

      Well going by TFA which is ANH redux we’ll see her training in EpVIII ESB redux. Though I hope Rian brings a more original film to the table which I do have confidence in, at the moment…

  • December 20, 2015 at 10:13 pm
    Permalink

    How about Abrams you stop ruining franchises and take up brickalying.

    Film is a creative and artistic endeavour that you are obviously not well-versed in.

    Kindly get lost.

    Sincerely,

    HH

    • December 20, 2015 at 10:21 pm
      Permalink

      Troll! ( becouse it is so un sucsessful) I bet they are so dispointed with how it’s doing! That is all

      • December 20, 2015 at 10:53 pm
        Permalink

        It’s disappointed. Not dispointed.

    • December 20, 2015 at 10:21 pm
      Permalink

      How about you stop complaining and enjoy the fact that Star Wars is back? From the sound of it, if Arndt had been in charge we would have gotten a far worse version of this story.

      • December 20, 2015 at 10:34 pm
        Permalink

        Don’t feed the troll. This guy is the sites resident sexist bigot.

        • December 20, 2015 at 11:03 pm
          Permalink

          Too bad I didn’t read your comment first. Idiots like him are why I barely comment, and why I have a hard time going to the Cantina. It’s a minority that feels the need to bash this movie, but it’s a very vocal minority.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:13 am
            Permalink

            Trolls aside, I understand why the movie could divide opinion, but I feel some are being way overly critical in their analysis. J.J. had the toughest gig out of all the sequel directors, he had to introduce the new, and re-introduce the old and then blend them into a cohesive narrative. Personally I believe he hit it out of the park, going back to see it tomorrow.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:00 am
            Permalink

            Exactly. There are legitimate criticisms to be made, but all I see are people complaining because it didn’t fit into their specific vision. (or trolling.)

      • December 20, 2015 at 10:54 pm
        Permalink

        Star Wars is back how? Because the “fans” love it? Because it’s just a remake? Because the lightsaber final fight was trash? Because everything that people predicted came to be and there no surprises?

        • December 20, 2015 at 11:00 pm
          Permalink

          “fans”? lol.

        • December 20, 2015 at 11:02 pm
          Permalink

          Okay, we get it: you don’t like the new movie. Now shut up and let those of us who did enjoy it talk about it without your negativity in the mix.

          • December 20, 2015 at 11:43 pm
            Permalink

            I’ve said this before and so I’ll say it AGAIN: There is no monopoly on OPINION. Detractors have just as much right to express their position as anyone else. Until/unless this site becomes STARWARSMOVIEKUMBAYA.COM you’re gonna have to accept that not everyone is gonna share your point of view or sense of overall satisfaction.

          • December 20, 2015 at 11:55 pm
            Permalink

            Everyone has a right to an opinion, but not all opinions are valid. Here in the US, many people are of the OPINION that we should have a registry of all Muslim citizens; they are WRONG. They are free to have that OPINION all they want, but voicing it doesn’t make them less WRONG.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:16 am
            Permalink

            You’re reaching, terribly. What’s even more unfortunate is that your own bias is interfering with your ability to see the hypocrisy in your own choice of reference (not to mention that it was poor choice to begin with). However, I’ll play along for a moment: The folks that want that registry have just as much of a RIGHT to that position as the folks that find it to be an absurd and divisive consideration. Either way, it’s just one OPINION versus ANOTHER based on relevant information that’s readily accessible and observable.

            Constructive critique is almost always healthy and even necessary for just about anything that can be observed- and there’s a distinct difference between that and flat out trolling for trolling’s sake. If your beef if with trolling, then you need to be able to correctly identify it so that you can address it correctly. But if your gripe is merely with anyone that doesn’t completely share your elated opinion of this film’s plot and plot devices, then that just shows a level of misguided immaturity on your part. Think about it…..

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:56 am
            Permalink

            I can admit that most of my beef is with trolling, but it’s hard to determine constructive criticism from trolling when both sides are using the same arguments (i.e.- “JJ killed the franchise because Han died!” or “This movie sucks because it just rehashes ANH!”). Neither side is taking the time to think through their issues and find intelligent solutions, they’re just yelling to be heard.

            Which is why I used the example of the racist-Right in the US. Not all conservatives are racist and ignorant, but the ones who are calling for such extreme measures are merely caricatures of themselves. They’re yelling to be heard; they take no consideration into the implication of their opinion, they just yell and shout because they’re angry and scared. I have yet to hear one of these idiots say something intelligent, like “Hey, doesn’t demonizing all Muslims feel a lot like what ISIS is trying to do to us?”

            Back to SW: it’s the people who are nitpicking about things without thinking them through that is infuriating. “The First Order is too much like the Empire;” they haven’t thought about the fact that the FO is supposed to be derivative of the Empire, fanatics that worship its memory. “The Starkiller is too much like the Death Star;” again, it was built by a group who worships the builders of the original DS, so why wouldn’t they try to improve upon its design?

            I could go on like this, but my point is that I have no tolerance for people who judge the movie without thinking about the larger picture; if they wanted a SW movie that fit their own narrow ideas, they should’ve gotten the job instead of JJ.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:19 am
            Permalink

            I can appreciate this forthright and honest response. Just be sure to keep in mind that not everyone that is stating their grievances about certain plot elements are doing so hypocritically or out of spite. Naturally, everyone had differing expectations for this movie, as well as, varying personal desires for what to see. At the end of the day, bias MUST give way to full objectivity in order for clear assessments to be rendered. Those who are taking the position that the TFA is above and beyond in-depth critical analysis (-simply because SW is back on the big screen in post-ROTJ form -without the creator of the PT at the helm) are just as bad as the folks that merely allow themselves to notice the perceived flaws of the film only. Neither group is being completely objective, and as such, are only hurting what should otherwise be a constructive conversation about the merits of the film.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:10 am
            Permalink

            I can’t have an opinion or disagree with people?

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:38 am
            Permalink

            Have an opinion, but be intelligent about it. “JJ killed the franchise” is a sentiment that is extremely hyperbolic in nature. “I didn’t like the movie for X and Y reasons, and I hope they do this-or-that better in VIII” would be a far more appropriate response.

  • December 20, 2015 at 10:23 pm
    Permalink

    Great, I hadn’t noticed R2D2 was awakened by BB8. I’ll pay more attention the next time I see the movie.

    • December 20, 2015 at 11:02 pm
      Permalink

      he actually wasn’t. he’s awoken by Rey’s (or rather – Luke’s lightsaber’s) arrival — and he is encouraged to show the map by BB8 after already being awake

  • December 20, 2015 at 10:24 pm
    Permalink

    //

    • December 20, 2015 at 10:37 pm
      Permalink

      If they allow his character to have a child they go against all Jedi teachings and that would not fit his character IMHO. In fact this creative decision would disappoint me if true.

      • December 20, 2015 at 10:43 pm
        Permalink

        Maybe Luke had to have a child to replenish the galaxy’s population of Force-sensitives. Keep in mind that it was attachment that the Jedi Code forbade. I’ve never known of anything speaking about them not being able to reproduce.

        • December 21, 2015 at 4:01 am
          Permalink

          Trust me, I have a kid. It’s a definite attachment! 😀

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:01 am
            Permalink

            Yeah, I know, lol. Didn’t mean to say that Luke wouldn’t love his daughter (assuming Rey is his kid), just that he didn’t have to have lived through a big romance to have a kid.

      • December 20, 2015 at 10:47 pm
        Permalink

        If they don’t allow Luke to have a child the skywalker family will die as I don’t see Kylo Ren having a child nor Leia again.

        • December 21, 2015 at 4:00 am
          Permalink

          Does the Skywalker lineage need to go on after EpIX? Maybe something interesting is install for Ren? Lots of possibilities.
          But most likely yes she will be but personally that won’t create a dynamic or surprising plot especially now that we know Ren is Han and Leia’s kid. It’ll just be another Skywalker vs Skywalker final duel in the last film with a subtle twist.

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:02 am
            Permalink

            But that’s what the Episode films are about: the Skywalker family. We might get more twists than we expect (what if Rey dies and Kylo lives? what if we get a new, non-Skywalker Jedi out of left-field in VIII or IX?), but ultimately it will always come down to the Skywalkers.

            Now the spin-offs are another story…

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:10 am
            Permalink

            Yes I am aware of that. I think we’ll all have to wait and see how these new films pan out and what they set up for the next trilogy which of course there will be.

      • December 20, 2015 at 11:01 pm
        Permalink

        That’s assuming that Luke has learned and accepted the flawed dogma of the old Order. I feel like he would have learned from the story of Anakin, about how staying completely free of attachment would eventually lead to Jedi choosing between love and the Order.

        • December 20, 2015 at 11:05 pm
          Permalink

          The Jedi Order’s dogma wasn’t flawed. The problem is that most Westerners tend to confuse the Law of Attachment (present in Eastern spiritual philosophies for ages) with not having any feelings.

          Buddhists have been practicing very similar traditions for about 2500 years and this hasn’t affected them in the very least. It was arrogance and overconfidence that did the Jedi in, not their Code or creed.

          To think that Luke Skywalker, the ultimate spiritual, loner Jedi, would marry, settle down, have kids and buy a couple of speeders, makes no sense at all.

          • December 20, 2015 at 11:12 pm
            Permalink

            GL explicitly said he was influenced by Buddhism. It is quite apparent actually.

            Having said that, I don’t think JJ or Ryan care about the dogma or the prequels for that matter.

          • December 20, 2015 at 11:21 pm
            Permalink

            While not as obvious as the references to the OT (ANH most of all, obviously) there are plenty of nods to the PT in TFA. Moreover, Jedi aren’t the exception but rather the rule as to how most knightly orders used to work in our real history. Almost all of them demanded that their members take vows of chastity, poverty, loyalty, etc.

            Game of Thrones has not one, but two orders of knights that are just like this, and I don’t hear any GoT fan crying foul about it, for instance. Again, it’s ignorance of our own history that has led many people to believe that this was a mistake on Lucas’ part.

            Abrams is an idiot, a product of Hollywood’s shallowness. I knew I shouldn’t expect anything spiritual from this hyperactive, pedestrian filmmaker, even if he was willing to risk following this particular path set by the PT. IDK about Johnson, but it’s clear to me that Disney does not want any backlash from those same PT detractors who didn’t understand why the Jedi were who they were, more than him not caring about the dogma or the prequels as a whole.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:49 pm
            Permalink

            GL also keeps saying that the sequels were supposed to be about Anakin’s grandchildren.

          • December 20, 2015 at 11:20 pm
            Permalink

            I disagree. The Jedi dogma was flawed; even if the original intent was to allow love but not attachment, the Order we see in the PT had widely misinterpreted it into “no feelings, ever.” This is what ultimately led to Anakin forsaking them and joining Palpatine; if he could have gone to Yoda or Obi Wan, told them about Padme, and asked for their help, he wouldn’t have needed to forsake the Light and join the Dark.

            Luke is special in that he learned to FEEL his feelings and use them to his advantage; he can feel the love for his father, and that love is what leads him to try and redeem Vader. If he had truly followed the old Jedi dogma, he would have pulled a Mace and killed Vader for being “too dangerous to be kept alive.” It therefore makes perfect sense that he could, years later, fall in love and have a child. It doesn’t mean he got married and started working at a starship factory, but rather that he continued to grow as a Jedi from where we left him in RotJ.

          • December 20, 2015 at 11:31 pm
            Permalink

            Yeah, whatever you say. I haven’t spend YEARS researching Eastern spiritual philosophies and the history of old knightly orders to debate people about Lucas’ ideas, when their points are based on biased opinions and not actual historical fact.

            If that makes you happy, good for you. My own studies and knowledge on Lucas’ influences have made me very happy, because they’ve allowed me to look at the PT under a completely different (and vastly improved) light.

          • December 20, 2015 at 11:39 pm
            Permalink

            As is often the case in the comment section, D V you are the voice of reason. U da REAL MVP

          • December 20, 2015 at 11:50 pm
            Permalink

            No need to get snippy; if that’s how you see it, then fine. But while you have spent years researching Earthly matters, I’ve spent years studying Star Wars. I’ll take an explanation based on in-universe lore over one that prioritizes real life influences any day. In fact, my explanation feels more in-sync with what actually happens in the saga; Lucas may indeed have based the Jedi in the PT on Buddhists and Knights, but he was also intentionally showing their decay. Where once they were the shining beacon of spirituality, now they are (in the PT) merely lackeys of a bloated bureaucracy. Even Yoda, in the ROTS novel, notes that he had allowed the Jedi to become complacent in their understanding of the Force; had he allowed the members of the Order a little more freedom in their interpretation of the Code, perhaps Anakin would never have fallen.

            Again, this allows that Luke could indeed have fallen in love and had a child; maybe he fell in love with someone who already had a child, and Rey is his step-daughter. Either way, being a Jedi and having a family are not mutually exclusive things under his new watch.

            And since you brought up GoT in another comment, must I point out how the Night’s Watch, after 1000 years, has failed with their interpretation of their vows? Sam points it out in the show (and the books too, I think; it’s been a while since I read them): a man of the Watch may take no wife nor have no children, but there’s nothing in there about not having sex.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:24 am
            Permalink

            The reason I researched Eastern spirituality and knightly orders was Star Wars, precisely. I really wanted to understand why these things were such a heavy influence on Lucas. And obviously, he didn’t draw his inspiration from Star Wars novels and books. That’s just side entertainment to accompany the films, and not very good, judging from what little EU novels I’ve read.

            Agreed on the Jedi’s flaws during the waning days of the Order. Only Yoda seemed to be still in touch with the spiritual side of the Force indeed.

            Rey is shown to be an exceptional mechanic and pilot. The Force also seems to be extremely strong in her. Moreover, she grew up forced to make a living out of junk, in extreme poverty, on a harsh, desert world. Now, if this doesn’t scream Anakin’s granddaughter to us, then there’s Ridley’s resemblance to Portman, which I don’t think is coincidence. She’s a Skywalker through and through, IMO. IDK what’s exclusive to Luke’s new watch, but I have no problem with Rey being his daughter. I was merely saying that the Jedi Code makes a lot more sense when you know Lucas’ influences for this.

            Finally, the Night’s Watch hasn’t failed in their interpretation of their vows (and these books I have read more than once, lol). Crows kept going into the brothel at Mole’s Town all the time. They just can’t marry or have children or lands or wealth. And no, Sam and Jon didn’t have the same conversation about this in the books. That was just on the show.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:39 am
            Permalink

            Let’s disregard the GoT talk, seeing as we were both just trying to use it as an example. I think we just have differing views there, and the differences between how the vows are presented in the show vs the books would make for a very long tangent, lol.

            I think we’re basically in agreement; when I say that the Jedi dogma was flawed, I am specifically referring to the PT Jedi who have erroneously interpreted the original doctrine, much like how they misinterpreted the Chosen One prophecy.

            We disagree on the EU; I was and always will be a fan of those stories. I can admit that some of them aren’t the best, but as a whole I feel like they did a great job of capturing the essences of our characters, which allowed them to live on until the franchise reboot with Disney.

            And Lucas may have indeed used Eastern spirituality as a basis for the Jedi (in fact, I know he did), but his time is over. Studying such ideas will give you insight into the PT era, but not much else.

            And while we don’t have much information on the way Luke was running his fledgling Order, we can consider this: Yoda and Obi Wan were both present for the rise of Vader, and both knew the ultimate cause was the Order’s steadfast refusal of love and marriage. Assuming they had a (ghostly) hand in helping Luke form his Order, wouldn’t it make sense that they did NOT pass along that particular piece of dogma?

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:49 am
            Permalink

            Yeah, I only meant to use GoT as an example of how there are knightly orders similar to the Jedi in other fantasy worlds and this doesn’t seem to be as big a deal as it’s been in SW since the PT. And you’re right besides, that merits a long conversation…in another forum, lol.

            I totally agree w/you on this particular part of Jedi dogma. I’m just tired of hearing people say that the Law of Attachment was nonsense, when they probably don’t know about Lucas’ influences. He may have failed in his delivery, but this doesn’t mean his ideas weren’t solid, IMO.

            Even if Lucas is gone, the entire Saga revolves around the Force, which is a direct reflection of his influences. I feel that a deep understanding of the myths and themes that Lucas used as his template for SW is a must for anyone who steps into his shoes as writer and director. Otherwise SW won’t feel like SW anymore, IMO.

            I think Luke should seek balance between the narrow, dogmatic views of the Jedi (as Palpatine put it) and a much more open-minded doctrine. Because let’s not forget that Palpatine used Anakin’s love for Padmé as bait to ensare the “Chosen One”, and in TESB Vader tried the same approach with Luke, through his friends. In short, the fear of losing the people you love is another pathway to the dark side.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:01 am
            Permalink

            Yes, but one of the main staples of Luke’s character is that he feels his emotions in such a way that the PT Jedi did not/could not. He actually skirts very close to the Dark Side a few times in the OT, but ultimately learns to use his emotions to further the Light (i.e.- using the love for his father in order to redeem him). If we extrapolate from this, then it’s logical that Luke incorporated this idea (feeling your emotions without letting them control you( into his teachings. Ergo, the “no attachments” rule becomes a thing of the past. Fear of losing someone can lead you to the Dark Side, but it can also motivate you to come back from it.

            Also, Lucas had a lot of ideas that never came to light. For example, originally anyone was supposed to be able to use the Force if properly trained (much like how anyone can obtain enlightenment if they commit themselves to the tenants of Buddhism). It’s one thing to accept his contributions as part of the saga, but it’s another to limit the future of the saga because of him. Basically, just because the Jedi operated one way in the PT doesn’t mean they cannot operate another way in the ST.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:12 am
            Permalink

            Well, I think Anakin is the best example on how your love for others can bring you back to the light side. In fact, having witnessed this with his own eyes, I wouldn’t be surprised if Luke was convinced that this could also happen to Kylo, at least till the kid killed Han. IMO, this has raised the stakes for the rest of the ST. It’ll be interesting to see how Luke will react to this.

            As for Lucas, I’m not saying that all of his ideas were good. But the core philosophy and mysteries of the Force shouldn’t take a back seat to this use of the Force in TFA that made it seem more like a tool to me, than the god-like, spiritual energy that it’s supposed to be.

            What I’d like to see is more exploration of the Force a la Yoda in TESB, which can be done without offending anyone’s sensibilities with regards to having a higher Midichlorian count or being forced to take any kind of vows. This wasn’t necessary in TESB and I don’t think it’s impossible to see it again in Ep. VIII and/or IX.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:27 am
            Permalink

            I’m almost positive that Luke thinks Kylo can be redeemed (and I think he’s right, even after killing Han; look at what Anakin did as Vader). In fact, I think that’s one of the reasons he’s in exile: he doesn’t want to engage Kylo in a duel, because he doesn’t want to kill him. Luke also needs to find a way to peel Kylo away from Snoke’s influence, which is why I think he was searching for the first Jedi Temple.

            As for the use of the Force in this movie…you have a point, but consider who we see use it: Kylo and Rey. Kylo is a user of the Dark Side, which treats the Force as a tool to be used. Rey is untrained and mostly acting out of instinct; a Padawan would use the Force like this, it wouldn’t be until she was fully trained that she would be able to truly explore the more esoteric aspects of the Force. I think we’ll see Luke exemplify this VIII/IX.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:39 am
            Permalink

            I have to concur with this. Some folks speculate that she has already been introduced to her powers at an earlier stage of her development but has since had that memory removed but I won’t buy that until it’s story-certified.

            I think she’s merely “gifted” and knows how to “learn” from the Force itself rather quickly and instinctively. TPM Anakin is an example of how this is possible.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:16 am
            Permalink

            Yeah, I don’t buy the “her memory was erased” shtick. I think it’s far more likely that she was just too young to remember; she very well could have had some minimal training at such a young age and she just doesn’t remember it (years scraping a living out of sand will do that to a person).

            There’s also the theory that Rey learned quite a bit about her latent Force powers when Kylo tried to read her mind; she unknowingly turned the tables on him and saw the possibilities of the Force. Add that to Han’s line about it (the Force) all being true, and I think she was literally just trying some stuff she had heard of in stories. Maybe Lor San Tekka used to tell her stories of the Jedi of old…she certainly recognized the name “Luke Skywalker”…

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:46 am
            Permalink

            I do hope that Kylo’s arc is not another redemption story. We’ve already seen it. Plus by killing his father, he’s already past the point of no return, IMO. Especially given Han’s overwhelming popularity with most if not all of us fans.

            Great point about Kylo’s and Rey’s use of the Force. You’re absolutely right about them both. And I don’t think Kylo is as far along in his training as he’d like to think. Everything about him feels raw, beginning with his blade. I think that’s symbolic of how much he still has to learn.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:11 am
            Permalink

            Exactly; Snoke’s words about it being time for Kylo to complete his training prove this. It’s like he was a Dark-Padawan and killing Han was his trial to “Knighthood.”

            I agree on the redemption arc, but it could still work in the right light (no pun intended). I’m not sure how they could do it without rehashing Vader, but I think it’s possible. That being said, I wouldn’t complain if he didn’t; maybe this trilogy will deal with Snoke, and Kylo survives to be the “mastermind” behind the next trilogy. Idk. They’re obviously taking a lot of themes from the EU (Han/Leia’s son turns to the Dark Side a kills a major family member; “Ben” was Luke’s son’s name; the one grandchild who stays with the Light is a daughter), and to just kill him off would be another one (Han’s evil son is eventually killed by his Jedi daughter). I’m excited to see what happens!

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:32 am
            Permalink

            This is how I saw Kylo’s progression through the film too, yeah: a trial or rite of passage that he had to pass as part of his training.

            I read somewhere that Lucas meant for the ST to be grayer than the PT and OT, as in more complex philosophically and morally speaking. Maybe this is what’s needed to finally balance the Force.

            Now, I know his ideas seem to have been discarded, but maybe not the underlying concept behind those same ideas. IDK how this could be accomplished, but it certainly would be interesting to see Kylo’s struggle between light and darkness be resolved in this manner; it would make for a different kind of redemption than Vader’s. Excited to see how this will all play out, too.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:47 am
            Permalink

            Indeed! I think it’ll be interesting if Kylo does get redeemed, as he views it as “falling” to the Light, much as the Jedi see going to the Dark as a “fall.” It’ll certainly be a little more complex than just choosing to be good again.

            There’s also some speculation that Kylo is already a cyborg. We don’t know what his body looks like (we only ever see his face/head), but he somehow shrugged off multiple lightsaber hits and a bowcaster bolt. His words about being “torn apart” could also be interpreted literally, as in he was literally torn apart to become Kylo. Idk if I put much stock in this, but it would be pretty interesting if he did indeed “fall to the Light” after such a transformation.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:52 am
            Permalink

            In the same way we get to see for the first time a battle from a stormtrooper’s point of view, Kylo gives us the opportunity to see for the first time the perspective of a dark apprentice, who struggles to resist the temptation of the light side, much in the same way as the traditional light apprentice (Luke, Ezra, Asoka, Anakin himself at a certain point of his life, etc.) struggle to resist the pull of the dark side.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:09 am
            Permalink

            Yeah, I was surprised to see how Kylo managed to absorb Chewie’s blast so easily, given the crossbow’s potency (but I was too busy cheering Chewie on to notice if he got a clear shot at that SOB or not, lol).

            Still, he did bleed when he banged his chest before Rey and Finn, so that means there’s still some flesh and bone in there. Maybe he was hurt more seriously than what we saw, and kept himself going through the power of the dark side?

            Whatever the case, I’m sure we’ll see a much less human Kylo Ren in Ep. VIII (literally and figuratively both).

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:20 am
            Permalink

            After digesting TFA, I wish Lucas would have directed it. It feels empty to me in terms of its treatment of the Force. I appreciated a lot of the Jedi philosophical ideals from the PT, and appreciated Lucas’ work with the clone wars, which was just fantastic in the last few seasons. Obviously too much of the dialogue in the PT was screwy and awkward, but with a little professional help in that regard for the ST, he would have created a true “Star Wars” ST, as silly as that sounds. And a grayer ST with conflicts deeper than Kylo’s insane rants with his lightsaber would have deeply satisfied me. On the non-philosophical side, I think Lucas would have been more realistic with the “Resistance.” The Rebels, which morphed into the Resistance, won 3 decades prior. You’re telling me they wouldn’t have had more than just a few upgraded xwings constituting their fleet and dingy base? My friends and family think I am nuts about this stuff, but it fundamentally bothers me. Perhaps the book will explain more.

          • December 21, 2015 at 5:41 am
            Permalink

            My feelings exactly. I would only argue that Lucas has never been a good director, not even back in the ANH days, according to many cast members. IMO, Abrams is the total opposite, a competent director and an excellent communicator, but not the most creative or innovative mind around.

            If the PT’s main problem was that George Lucas had too much power, then I believe the same can be said about TFA concerning Abrams. The guy should’ve focused on directing the film and leave the script to Arndt and Kasdan, based on Lucas’ best ideas, IMO.

            But no use crying over spilled milk, I guess. Hopefully, Ep. VIII will be deeper and with more dimension. I truly believe this is where things should be headed, based on the way that TFA ended.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:07 am
            Permalink

            This guy’s passion is remarkable, but he clearly has a smarmy attachment to his teachings that are colored with passive-aggressive arrogance.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:04 am
            Permalink

            I’ll ask you to not judge me as “smarmy” or “passive-aggressive.” (I’ll give you arrogant, but that comes with intelligence.) Besides, who’s more passive-aggressive, the one who addresses someone directly or the one who has to insult someone indirectly through someone else’s comment section?

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:28 am
            Permalink

            You know what, I’d like to apologize.

            I was off-put by your posturing and I “gave into the hate.”

            I read the rest of your conversation in-context and agree with many of the points you made about the film.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:42 am
            Permalink

            No apology needed, it’s hard to gauge tone and intent over the Internet.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:17 am
            Permalink

            I think you meant to say “spent,” FYI.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:19 am
            Permalink

            Yep, I did. Thanks for the correction, fixing it as we speak, lol.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:40 am
            Permalink

            Anakin should have trusted Obi-Wan though and sought his counsel. I suppose he was put off though by Yoda’s speech on how he should “rejoice” with those who merge with the force rather than morning them. Palpatine by contrast offered him the “easy way” and told hom exacty what he wanted to hear.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:57 am
            Permalink

            You’re correct, but you also proved my point for me: why would Anakin go to Obi Wan when the answer was almost always to defer to Yoda’s wisdom? There was no support system in place within the Order for anyone who didn’t conform; even Qui-Gon, who may have been wiser than anyone in the Order, was denied Master-status and basically shunned for defying the Council. The problem wasn’t that Anakin couldn’t go to Obi Wan, or that he should have; the problem was that everything in the Order screamed “Obey or be exiled!”

            If, on the other hand, there had been some precedent for Jedi falling in love and being open about it, Anakin may have felt more comfortable approaching Obi Wan (or anyone).

            Also, if you watch TCW, there’s a heavy implication that Obi Wan knew about Padme and Anakin; he’s even revealed to have feelings for someone himself (Sabine, Queen of Mandalore). The whole arc implies that Jedi do fall in love, but are encouraged to keep it secret; it’s like they had a “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:39 am
            Permalink

            I just want Jedi to behave like normal human beings, not sexless characters.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:41 am
            Permalink

            Not all Jedi are human. And nobody ever said that their sexless characters. That’s just your assumption.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:49 am
            Permalink

            You know what I meant! 😛

            And their behavior in the Prequel films told me plenty.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:04 am
            Permalink

            Well, SW is family entertainment. If we ever get an R version, who’s to say that we won’t see Jedi visiting pleasure houses in the lower levels of Coruscant, every now and then? 😉

          • December 21, 2015 at 9:05 am
            Permalink

            ANAKIN: *giggles* That’s not exactly what I meant. ;P

            I wasn’t talking about sex but romance.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:44 pm
            Permalink

            Romance? Since when did SW become Twilight? Lol. J/K 😛

            On a more serious, realistic note, I don’t think romance would’ve worked for the Jedi. Being fathers and husbands, mothers and wives, while at the same time having to go out on sensitive, dangerous missions all the time (while putting your loved ones at risk)…the pressure would be too much. The slightest misstep could lead many straight to the dark side, I’m sure.

            This is why Yoda used to say that becoming a Jedi required having the most serious of minds; it was a life-long commitment, where you had to give up everything to fulfill your oath. Remember, Jedi didn’t seek adventure or excitement. It’s the best definition of a dirty job in the GFFA, IMO, hard as hell, no doubt.

        • December 21, 2015 at 3:51 am
          Permalink

          I never took it as flawed. Detachment much like being a Buddhist Monk is about separating oneself from the material world or your emotional cause and effect.
          I see Anakin’s character as flawed not the teachings.
          A child is an attachment and just like Luke’s bond to Leia and his friends in ESB having a child could be problematic…or not.
          But this is all speculative theory and yes maybe Luke just thought screw that rule!

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:55 am
            Permalink

            The teachings themselves weren’t flawed, but the interpretation of them by the PT era Jedi were. I go on about this somewhere below…

            Basically, Luke was different from the Old Jedi in many ways, and one of them was that he learned to use his feelings rather than shut them out. He feared for his father, whom he loved, and that allowed him to ultimately redeem him. Attachments can work for you and against you; I think that he decided that it was better to allow his Jedi their attachments while teaching how to deal with them/use them to their advantage rather than to just shut themselves off from others completely.

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:06 am
            Permalink

            Nice, I like that idea. Still not fussed on the having kids part though. I like my Jedi as focused protectors.

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:09 am
            Permalink

            There’s also the argument to be made that serving the Light Side and protecting the Republic are two different things. If the Dark Side hadn’t been behind the Empire, there really would have been no reason for Luke to get involved in the fight. That’s another way the Jedi of Old failed: they became pawns of the Republic instead of staying true to the Light. They honestly should have all refused to take part in the Clone Wars, instead focusing on the Sith threat.

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:11 am
            Permalink

            Absolutely.

      • December 20, 2015 at 11:32 pm
        Permalink

        how would luke even know about it? did obi-wan and/or yoda sit him down an tell him he couldn’t get married? i thought it made way more sense for luke and other jedi in the old EU to be married then for it to be forbidden in the prequels.

        • December 20, 2015 at 11:34 pm
          Permalink

          R2-D2 could have lots of holographic info on the prequel era stored in his memory banks, and unlike 3PO, R2 didn’t have his memory wiped. Luke could’ve easily learned a lot about the PT era from this.

          • December 20, 2015 at 11:44 pm
            Permalink

            The ,,Jedi cant have kids” idea was one of the stupidest in the prequels imo. Lucas only pulled it out so Anakin and Padme’ romance would be like a forbidden fruit so Anakin could turn. It was rather bad writing than a senseful idea. Even in the EU Luke had kids. Why shouldn’ t an intelligent creature have any offsrping or feel love? Without love, life is mostly pointless. Most of the big things I’ve done in my life was to impress girls or my girlfriend. And its not like Jedi are a homogenic monk-like society as they have men and women from various races, and they travel all around the galaxy, sometimes alone. If you have someone to love you, you will understand yourself a lot more, or in this case the Force. Yes, love could also be dangerous for a jedi, but with proper training it isnt more dangerous than any other elements of their lives.

          • December 20, 2015 at 11:58 pm
            Permalink

            So Lucas just pulled this out of his arse? It’s not like countless knightly orders (in fantasy and real life both) don’t demand vows from their members before anointing/initiating them, right? And I guess Buddhists aren’t intelligent creatures then, because they have been practicing the very Law of Attachment that Lucas used for the Jedi in SW, for over 2000 years now.

            Don’t blame Lucas for many SW fans not knowing the historical sources that inspired his work. Thanks to the OT, I did extensive research on all this stuff, and I came to the conclusion that Jedi should be exactly like any knightly order of the past. I also figured out that Anakin’s romance with Luke’s and Leia’s mother would be some kind of forbidden relationship, long before we even learned the name Padmé (which is Sanskrit for lotus, btw; that’s how heavily influenced Lucas was by Buddhism, btw).

            This doesn’t mean I’d be upset if Rey happens to be Luke’s daughter (IMO, this is pretty much a foregone conclusion, based on the not-so-subtle hints given by TFA). SW is only entertainment, after all, and the Skywalker line needs to continue aside from Kylo “Ben”.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:18 am
            Permalink

            I know how buddhists, christian monks and knights lived, but for star wars I think it just dosent work. Havent Luke decided to go with Obi-wan because of the princess (ofc without knowing the sister-thing)? His motivation was always to save his loved ones, friends or love interrest. And besides dont think that buddhist monks or knights didnt have an action if you know what I mean, there are several historical evidence for that. But thats not suprising, you cant just erase the nautre out from a human (or any other beeing) Well maybe the jedi do it with some kind of gene-modification, but without that I think every second young jedi would break that stupid code, and leave that lifeless cult forever. Or maybe return later a bit more elighted, but definitely not Anaking would be the only one…

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:33 am
            Permalink

            Luke didn’t decide to leave with Obi-Wan because of Leia. Otherwise he would’ve said “YES!” right after Ben asked him to come to Alderaan, when they had just watched Leia’s hologram in Ben’s shack. It was until after his uncle and aunt were killed that Luke made his decision.

            Now, please don’t confuse sex with love. I’ve heard a saying that you must have sex if you’re in love, but that you don’t have to be in love just to have sex. This is true, and I’ve heard of nothing that would forbid the Jedi from having sex. However, when you get to love someone to the point where they become your sole reason to live, and that you’re willing to do anything to keep them by your side, this sort of thing usually ends up badly for all parties involved…as was the case for Anakin and Padmé.

            Attachment is like an addiction. Nothing wrong with having a drink every now and then. But when you can’t stop drinking, you become an alcoholic. Obi-Wan loved Anakin like a brother, but not to the point of doing stupid things to prevent his brother from dying or worse. Remember, SW is all about balance.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:46 am
            Permalink

            Easy there, DV. You’re making too much sense at the moment. Be careful. You wouldn’t want to accidentally over-tax anyone’s ability at thorough reasoning.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:21 am
            Permalink

            Lol.

          • December 21, 2015 at 11:02 am
            Permalink

            Wait, so they are allowed to have sex, but no love, or kids? That would be even more stupid. First, that would be the exact opposite of the buddhist, or kinghtly teachings. And second isnt allowing sex, but not love extremely dangerous? What would prevent them from falling in love then? What if they have an accident and make an offsrping? And still Im pretty sure that almost every second jedi would break the code and leave that steril, lifeless cult after they hit puberty or during travelling the galaxy alone. The galaxy is very big and a jedi could make a living pretty easely. And its not like something special I guess, as Dooku left the order, and even became a count of some kind, even tho the Republic is very far from beeing feudal. And yea, Obi-wan loved Anakin so much that he left him die a horrible death alone, instead of beeing mercyful and helping him with a fast movement.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:00 pm
            Permalink

            Well, I don’t really know if the Jedi had to take a vow of chastity or not. I merely said that I have never heard that they couldn’t get busy once in a while. Plus, I haven’t heard anything saying that they couldn’t leave the Order if they fell in love and wanted a normal life. There’s Dooku’s example, as you’ve pointed out, and I doubt he was the only member that left the Order through the years.

            I totally agree w/you on Obi-Wan. He should’ve finished Anakin right then and there. Had he done so, he would’ve spared the galaxy some terrible suffering over the next couple of decades, besides. And the Jedi that Vader hunted down, those who survived Order 66, could’ve regrouped and become valuable allies of the Rebellion, too.

            I think Obi-Wan just couldn’t bring himself up to give Anakin the gift of mercy. The Order was flawed. I want to make it perfectly clear that I’ve never said otherwise. In fact, this is pretty much what sealed their demise, IMO, which is why I feel that Lucas’ idea was a good one.

          • December 21, 2015 at 11:21 pm
            Permalink

            For me it just feels a bit out of place. Maybe if they’d explained it a bit better I could accept it. But for some reason it feels to me that the whole idea was only written for Anakin to be able to turn. What I think about the prequels now, after TFA is that Lucas’s ideas were good. The overall story of the prequels is a good story, and all 3 prequels could’ve been very good as they had a lot of potential. Anakin’s turn and the fall of the Republic could’ve been interessting if they’d made the preqels as they used to make: as a team. Maybe with Lawrence Kasdan and Gary Kurtz. And someone else should’ve directed them. Maybe Spielberg. Finn and Rey are both very well acted good, characters and Kylo Ren had anything which Anakin didnt. With the great acting and characters of TFA, the visual style of Spielberg and the originals, with the story of Lucas and with the screenplay of Kasdan, those movie could’ve been masterpieces.

          • December 22, 2015 at 12:37 am
            Permalink

            I’ve always thought Anakin could’ve left the Order if he wanted. But he was too ambitious; he wanted the best of both worlds and he paid the price for his greed. At least this is how I see it.

            Again, I think Lucas’ vision was brilliant, which is why I like the PT (once I manage to overlook Binks’ childish antics, the cheesy dialogues and the TERRIBLE Padmé-Anakin romance). I think the problem was that he couldn’t transfer his vision to the screen.

            So I totally agree w/you. If Lucas had focused on the creative and production side of things, while bringing in screenwriters and directors to make the films, the prequels could’ve been masterpieces indeed.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:46 am
            Permalink

            Christian Knights had tons of kids. Monks didn’t

          • December 21, 2015 at 11:07 am
            Permalink

            There were some knightly orders aswell which dissalowed any contact with women. For example the tempelars.

        • December 21, 2015 at 3:44 am
          Permalink

          In ROTJ Luke proclaims himself to be a Jedi. He spent a fair amount of time with Yoda and I would suggest his training just didn’t involve how to use the force but also the teachings of the Jedi. Yoda being the last Master this makes sense but this is as much speculation as any other out of film context theory.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:51 am
            Permalink

            In the ROTS novel, Yoda ruminates about the failings of the Jedi under his leadership, how he let them stagnate into mere tools for the bureaucracy and that it allowed them to be betrayed. There were many things about Luke’s training that were different than the training of Old; I think Yoda nixed the “no attachments” thing as being extraneous and indirectly responsible for the fall of Anakin. (See comments below for further discussion of this).

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:04 am
            Permalink

            Ha, how convenient! Sorry I don’t pay attention to anything external from the films but if that’s what an official canon book says so be it!

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:57 am
            Permalink

            Besides, we know from the canon that Luke studied the Jedi texts and manuals that Obi-Wan kept in his home on Tatooine. It was not exactly the Jedi Temple’s holocron library, but I’d be surprised if there were no references to the Jedi Code.

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:00 am
            Permalink

            But Obi Wan and Yoda both acknowledge at the end of ROTS (maybe just the novel, but still) that the Jedi were flawed in that they never adapted to the times. They vowed to reassess the Code before training Luke (and presumably, Leia); seeing as how “no attachments” was directly involved in Anakin’s fall, I feel it’s likely they rethought it over their 19 year exile.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:22 am
            Permalink

            maybe, only because we didn’t see everything. but luke was only with yoda for a matter of days before he left and most of that was a crash course in controlling the force and his fear. besides, do you really think luke could recruit force sensitives into his new order with the sales pitch of no sex? 😉

      • December 20, 2015 at 11:52 pm
        Permalink

        It goes against the Jedi order, not the light side. Luke was never a part of the Jedi order. He only wants to stay on the light side.

        • December 21, 2015 at 2:30 am
          Permalink

          You’re right but he was a Jedi and we can only assume what Yoda taught him off screen. We saw his training but I’m pretty confident Yoda would have passed on his teachings beyond just using the force.

        • December 21, 2015 at 9:53 pm
          Permalink

          That’s fantastic, love those old interviews and reviews. And if that’s what GL said so be it. The idea still doesn’t appeal to me but I’ll survive.

    • December 21, 2015 at 1:28 am
      Permalink

      I think Rey is also Leia and Hans daughter. Leia was pregnant when Han left, but he never knew. Leia, knowing she would be strong in the force as well, took her to Jaaku when Ben turned to the dark side to hide her from her brother. Explains the connection between Rey and Solo and the knowing hug between Leia and Rey.

      • December 21, 2015 at 2:38 am
        Permalink

        Interesting theory. And it sort of turns Leia into Padme/Obi-Wan.

      • December 21, 2015 at 3:27 am
        Permalink

        Except that it is implied that Han left shortly after Ben turned and Rey was left on Jakku when she was already about five or six years old. (which BTW begs the question why she doesn’t remember her parents’ faces).

        I’d buy Rey being Leia’s daughter only if she had been conceived wthout a father (like Anakin) after Han left. In any case, I feel Leia knows who Rey is, whether she is her daughter, Luke’s daughter, or none of the above.

        • December 24, 2015 at 4:17 pm
          Permalink

          Leia says Han left when she sent Ben to train with Luke, not when he turned to the dark side. Ben could have been 5 when she sent him to train with Luke. Rey could easily be 5 years younger than Ben. My other theory is that Rey was a youngling at Luke’s training academy when Ben turned. Luke scattered his remaining younglings throughout the galaxy to protect them, then went into hiding, awaiting the return of the most powerful youngling who he could train in order to redeem his failings with Ben.

  • December 20, 2015 at 10:27 pm
    Permalink

    OK, the Luke part I get. The big reveal would’ve been better if the film had focused on the search for the legendary Jedi Master, as opposed to having to blow up, Death Star III, but I agree that Luke would’ve stolen the show and that wasn’t the point.

    But the R2/BB-8 bit still sounds too contrived to me. As if we’re supposed to understand droid beeps, whistles and chirps. How about getting C-3PO mixed in, and have him make some kind of comment, making it clear that BB-8 is actually asking that question to R2?

    Abrams definitely still has a LOT to learn about how to make good use of the countless plot devices that good storytellers have at their disposal (vintage Lucas included).

  • December 20, 2015 at 10:28 pm
    Permalink

    My favorite moment was the beginning of the movie with Luke’s hand floating in space

  • December 20, 2015 at 10:28 pm
    Permalink

    First I like to say this is tough but I cant stop think from this point of view,,, I’m not a JJ’s hater. I like a lot his homage to Spielberg in Super8 and I’ve been waiting for his homage to George Lucas and to us , fans that have been waiting 30 years to see our heroes back on silverscreen. TFA has awesome scenes and true designs but felt for me very depressing towards OT heroes….tell me what u guys think?

    1) LEIA- She is not a Princess anymore now she looks a tired general struggling in a never end war . Results that she didnt have time to love their children, letting his son destroyed a new Jedi Order (this is heavy!) and killed his own father and love Han Solo (very heavy) . She maybe even not remenber his daughter who was abandoned just like Luke. Why a mother let this tragedy happened again in her family ? she knows who her grandpa was, take care well of that kids

    2) LUKE – Oh man how I waited to see Luke again, but until now we watched a sad man standing alone on a cliff. Why he had to be like Obi Wan or Yoda, He have to be a faded Jedi once again to be a mentor?
    JJ failed for me in that close up, very very plain. I didnt feel a mystique in that scene. Luke is suffering cause he saw his spoiled nephew wipe out his new Jedi Order, this is so sad and such a feeling. I was not expecting to see my all time hero in a situation like that, after all he is training, his father redemption and all the fallen of Jedis in Clone Wars. What. Jedi can not stand the darkside thats is it ?
    WTF JJ

    3) CHEWIE- he felt so sad by the end of the movie and he even get shot, I think twice?. A tall and legendary wookie been carried by Finn or Rey is some shots . It felt a lil bit weird

    4) HAN- OMG we could see a 100% Han Solo’s swag back on the screen. But he is still in his same bizness he didn progresss as a MAN as character…stilll smuglering shit but now he has 60 years old..and he lost the Falcon, he lost his sons, he lost his love, his friend…and he get killed by his OWN spoiled son, a son that could be his co-pilot at the Falcon. He ofering Rey (maybe his daughter) a job at Falcon is so lovely but you can sense a man that lost his acomplishments in this universe.

    5) Admiral Ackbar – deservers more takes and more rank. Why the resistance doesnt have cruisers on TFA?

    6) C3PO and R2D2- the scene is incredible when C3PO interupts HAn and Leia. But that is it, then he smashed hard R2 in the face( he has this temper in OT? It was Anthony Daniel’s temper ?). R2D2 is powered off to his scene of getting the right moment of the Force to turn on but is very bad executed by JJ. It could be something meaningful like the flower of E.T getting back to life.

    BUT I LOVE THE NEW PLAYERS. IM IN LOVE WITH REY. FINN IS A TRUE REBEL.
    BB8 IS GREAT STANDARD FOR SW DESIGNS.

    AND KYLO CAN BE A COMPLEX CHARACTER FOR SOME BUT FOR ME HE IS KYLO RAT

    • December 20, 2015 at 11:11 pm
      Permalink

      I felt 3PO’s entrance was the Jar Jar moment of this film. I couldn’t stand him in this.

      • December 20, 2015 at 11:15 pm
        Permalink

        that moment was a bit much, but 3PO and R2 after he came back was very sweet, imo. 🙂

    • December 21, 2015 at 12:43 am
      Permalink

      Did anyone ever thought about that maybe Luke was on a quest to find the first jedi temple and his ship broke out there and he has been stranded there ever since…He seemed to be crying when Rey arrived…

  • December 20, 2015 at 10:46 pm
    Permalink

    I’m still confused though. What lines did Ewan McGregor actually say ? Obi-Wan’s line in the force back was clearly from Alec Guiness and I don’t remember Ewan’s voice anywhere else, unless he is voicing some new character (who ?).

    • December 20, 2015 at 10:59 pm
      Permalink

      Alec Guiness – “Rey”
      Ewan McGregor – “These are your first steps”

      • December 20, 2015 at 11:08 pm
        Permalink

        OK, I got it now after reading the article again. I could swear “!these are your first steps” was from Alec Guiness (or so I thought in the theater); Ewan McGregor must be a very good voice actor to sound so much like Sir Alec.

  • December 20, 2015 at 11:04 pm
    Permalink

    I dont want cheese on top of my film. But I WANT FEEL THE LIGHT ONCE AGAIN IN THIS WORLD FULL OF TRAGEDIES U KNOW , they have money to send positive messages to the world . USE THE FORCE….But no , this is TFA IS about OEDIPUS killing and our beloved OT characters being treat like losers. Its a makeup of good movie but the meaning in its core , its evilish and sad, it relates values of being forgotten Ok they can do that on next films , BUT THIS WAS THE ONE THE WHOLE WORLD WILL WATCH… Dont you guys see that??

    • December 20, 2015 at 11:08 pm
      Permalink

      So you want all films to whitewash over the tragedies of the world and pretend everything is fine? You want Star Wars to become propaganda? You don’t want the franchise known for borrowing themes from other famous stories to borrow from one of the oldest and most tragic stories in existence? How about you stop whining and realize that this was a film that needed to set up a whole new chapter in this franchise, and that it did that successfully; just because it didn’t pander to your exact wishes doesn’t make it a bad film.

      • December 20, 2015 at 11:16 pm
        Permalink

        but you could choose spend 200 millions dollar or more in a screenplay that sends a postive solutions and vibes, even with dramatic conflicts, or embrace the darkness of the real world creating a character so lost as Kylo whos upfront of all merchandises. With this cool paint

        • December 20, 2015 at 11:21 pm
          Permalink

          But the orginals were the same..within 30minutes we saw the corpse of aunt Beru..not much later his only mentor gets killed in front of his eyes and a whole plannet blows up
          And thats only A New Hope

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:02 am
            Permalink

            I was waiting to JJ use the force like never before. TFA is so well done in his cinematography but if you see beyond its “matrix” you can see some wrong and negative spiritual choices for the audience of the whole world. Dont make a son kills his father (Han fucking solo) in a movie that will reunite genarations

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:47 am
            Permalink

            Han fucking Solo is still only a character, a character who could logically die at any point in such a dangerous galaxy. Confronting his son, trying and failing to turn him away from evil was a smart, dramatic choice for his character.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:55 am
            Permalink

            I agree 100%. Personally, I think Han’s death was much more dramatic this way: him trying to save his son’s soul, rather than him going out in a blaze of glory, blaster in hand, facing countless stormtroopers, to buy the kids and Chewie enough time to bolt.

      • December 20, 2015 at 11:18 pm
        Permalink

        The death of Han by his son for me was the problem hahaha real sorry guys for my whining. I will stop

        • December 20, 2015 at 11:23 pm
          Permalink

          I’m pretty sure that was the whole reason Harrison Ford came back; he always wanted Han to die a selfless, heroic death, and what better way to do that than than to die trying to redeem his fallen son? If Han didn’t die, we probably wouldn’t have gotten Han at all.

        • December 20, 2015 at 11:34 pm
          Permalink

          I think you’re not whining, and express some views many share. Great that people disagree, it’s what makes SW so much fun.

        • December 21, 2015 at 12:36 am
          Permalink

          You’re okay with obi-wan, vader, Ewoks, Owen and aunt Beru, schmee and everyone else dying? Think before you speak.

    • December 20, 2015 at 11:09 pm
      Permalink

      Life = tragedy. A smugler with a heart of gold can be killed by his own son, a man who fights for the light can unintentionally bring forth darkness into the world and meanwhile a lot of people die on plannets who’s names we will never know. Difference is..in SW the good always wins over evil in the end..and that can’t be said of the real world.

      • December 20, 2015 at 11:19 pm
        Permalink

        I don’t think good always triumph over evil in the real world, but, in history, whenever a state or regime is ot tries to be hegemonic, sooner or later, either it implodes or a coalition rises up to fight it. It may take centuries ,or decades ,or only a few years, but it eventually happens that way. It is not exactly good vs evil, as the real world is more complex than that, but history always finds a way to balance itself.

    • December 20, 2015 at 11:13 pm
      Permalink

      oedipus killed his father so he could sleep with his mother, then stabbed his own eyes out. that is dark. what we got in the film was tame in comparison.

      • December 20, 2015 at 11:19 pm
        Permalink

        ok its not that far

    • December 21, 2015 at 12:34 am
      Permalink

      Lol, you complain… But are you a star wars fan? You are the personification of what’s wrong with the Internet.

      • December 21, 2015 at 12:56 am
        Permalink

        Oh man dont say that to me, its not that simple… I cant tell you how fan I am…. but not only SW, my personal growing as man has influence of the whole era of Industrial, Light &Magic…the genius of John Knoll, the wisdom of Lucas and intergalactic kabalah of Spielberg. I was waiting to JJ use the force like never before. TFA is so well done in his cinematography but if you see beyond its “matrix” you can see some wrong and negative spiritual choices for the audience of the whole world. Dont make a son kills his father (Han fucking solo) in a movie that will reunite genarations.

        • December 21, 2015 at 1:45 am
          Permalink

          Why not though? You personally thought it was a terrible choice, but many of us saw it as an excitingly dramatic one. This is a family-driven saga, how better to cement that than a son-killing-father tragedy?

        • December 21, 2015 at 4:18 am
          Permalink

          I honestly think you are giving qualities to human beings that they don’t posses. and their “abilities” have nothing to do with the movie… also, if Lucas is one of your role models, you have a dark future ahead.

          • December 21, 2015 at 8:50 am
            Permalink

            More high minded bung…ish rhetoric. If some likes what Lucas did before, they must be ridiculed by the high minded bung… Team. Back for revenge they are. See, it’s back.

      • December 21, 2015 at 8:46 am
        Permalink

        Actually, you high minded bung…s are. Always trying to act like because you’re fine with the film, or what it is, that it some how makes you a pure SW fan. No! It makes you a high minded bung…

  • December 20, 2015 at 11:19 pm
    Permalink

    The bit about the attempts to write Luke into ep 7 earlier were interesting. Listen, whether they write Luke in Ep.7 ,8 or 9, he is ALWAYS going to upstage Rey. The fact that the most dramatic and indeed memorable scene in ep 8 is when Luke appears for a nanosecond is a case-in-point – not even Shakespeare’s pen could change this reality. The blinker-eyed focus on ‘Gen Rey’ may infact do harm, and it remains to be seen if it will be the bumbling, foolish Gungan from the planet Naboo.

    • December 20, 2015 at 11:21 pm
      Permalink

      It depends on how they write Luke in Episode VIII. The conventional wisdom is that he will be a kind of Yoda to Rey and he may not have that much screen time. Ir is all speculation at this point though.

      • December 20, 2015 at 11:24 pm
        Permalink

        If Luke gets benched, I’m switching to Star Trek.

        • December 20, 2015 at 11:39 pm
          Permalink

          i’m hoping we will get a luke v snoke boss battle at some point. maybe luke dies and rey has to finish it in IV.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:44 am
            Permalink

            Snoke is 7ft tall, isn’t he ? It would be awkward to see him fighting with a lightsaber ( a giant lightsaber maybe ?).

            Seriously, Snoke is one of the few characters who might actually not work in the sequels

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:49 am
            Permalink

            I really don’t believe he is that tall and not just because it was only a hologram of him

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:52 am
            Permalink

            Maybe, but, in any case, I think it was stupid to make him a giant. That doesn’t make him more intimidating at all. Quite the contrary, he doesn’t look or act like a “supreme leader” to me and seems to be much less in control than Palpatine was.

        • December 20, 2015 at 11:40 pm
          Permalink

          As long as he plays a bigger part than Yoda and we see his full powers on display I;m fine. I don’t expect to see him in a lightsaber duel.

    • December 21, 2015 at 1:31 am
      Permalink

      Obi-Wan never upstaged Luke. It’s just hacky screenwriting.

      • December 21, 2015 at 9:01 am
        Permalink

        And your opinion.

  • December 20, 2015 at 11:39 pm
    Permalink

    I thought it was Obi Wan’s voice, but I was going crazy trying to figure out if it was McGregor or Guinness. Good for Abrams to use both. McGregor gives the most respectable performance of anyone in the prequels. If he appears in a sequel in aged makeup as a force ghost – I’m cool with that.

  • December 21, 2015 at 12:16 am
    Permalink

    Ewan force ghost in VIII or IX LETSS GOO!!

    • December 21, 2015 at 2:31 am
      Permalink

      likely…obi wan likely cared for rey

    • December 21, 2015 at 5:51 am
      Permalink

      Obi Wan is secretly the father of Poe Dameron.

  • December 21, 2015 at 12:36 am
    Permalink

    So, what does it mean? Who the hell is Rey? What’s her tie in with both the young and old Obi-Wan…why do a young and older voice of the same character. What the hell is going on? Why isn’t Kylo Ren hearing from Anakyn/Vader? Why aren’t they saying NOOOOOooooooooooooooooo Ben!?!?!? Where’s the consistency? Where are we headed? Come on dudes, lets speculate!

    • December 21, 2015 at 4:50 am
      Permalink

      1: We’ll probably find out in one way or another. If not a movie, then the comics or games.
      2: Obviously linked to the Skywalker lineage in some way.
      3: Obi-Wan was connected to both Skywalker Jedi. I wouldn’t be surprised if he also had words with Kylo Ben.
      3.5: Fanservice.
      4: Star Wars, that’s what.
      5: Because Vader was wiped from existence before the Anakin body died.
      6: Because JJ != Lucas.
      7: All over the place, go watch it again =P
      8: Hopefully not ESB2.

  • December 21, 2015 at 12:47 am
    Permalink

    “Arndt said. “Suddenly you didn’t care about your main character anymore
    because, ‘Oh f–k, Luke Skywalker’s here. I want to see what he’s going to do.’”

    Then maybe Luke SHOULD have been the main character and the new ones should have been introduced slowly over the course of 3 films to finally take over. Would have been better.

    • December 21, 2015 at 12:51 am
      Permalink

      or a lot worse.

    • December 21, 2015 at 12:52 am
      Permalink

      Maybe they didn’t think Mark Hamill could carry a whole movie by himself anymore…Love the guy and all his voiceover work, but it’s been a while since he’s been the main star of any features…

    • December 21, 2015 at 1:29 am
      Permalink

      They fucked up but I’m guessing he’ll be the Han of the next one and then die as well. Leia probably in the last one.

      • December 21, 2015 at 9:00 am
        Permalink

        They fucked up and made 250 million dollars in four days doing it.

        Damn that sucks.

    • December 21, 2015 at 2:16 am
      Permalink

      It’s not his trilogy. He already had his. This trilogy belongs to the next generation.

      • December 21, 2015 at 8:38 am
        Permalink

        Reasoning is not to be confused with inspiration

      • December 21, 2015 at 8:40 am
        Permalink

        I think that’s the point. We won’t have much Luke left. We can have 40 years of Ray. This very much should of been the conclusion of Luke’s saga.

    • December 21, 2015 at 2:48 am
      Permalink

      I liked they kept Luke out of this one. I found it moving powerful his one scene at the end too. Look forward to more Luke in the next one

  • December 21, 2015 at 1:07 am
    Permalink

    I couldn’t find Warwick Davies character anywhere. post a Picture, anyone?

    • December 21, 2015 at 1:28 am
      Permalink

      Or the guy who won the Force For Change thing.

      • December 21, 2015 at 2:12 am
        Permalink

        So r2 woke up because bb-8 asked him about the map? Didn’t other droids at that rebel base do the same?

        • December 21, 2015 at 2:34 am
          Permalink

          R2 woke up because of the appearance of Rey, and booted up when BB-8 asked him about the map. I got the feeling the R2 was kind of in “sentinel” mode, like he was aware of just enough to pinpoint Rey when she showed up; BB-8 then asked about the map, and it took him until the end of the movie to boot up.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:50 am
            Permalink

            IDK, man. This scene was very confusing, and apparently not only to me. You’ve got a protocol droid, fluent in over 6 million forms of communication. Why not use Threepio for that scene in particular?

            An offhand comment from him to BB-8 would have made this clear and you’d be giving 3PO something to do, other than just annoy Han, Leia (and the audience) during their first encounter in what seems to have been a long time.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:02 am
            Permalink

            And here’s a legitimate criticism of the film: the editing. This wasn’t the only scene that felt like half of it got left on the cutting room floor. It was almost like the whole scene was supposed to take place after the big battle, but they put half of it before so as to introduce R2 earlier.

            Anyway, that was my interpretation of the scene. Basically, R2 needed Rey AND the missing map piece in order to boot up.

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:45 am
            Permalink

            That’s actually a really good point, he didn’t boot up until Rey got there. I think that basically explains it for me. =D

        • December 21, 2015 at 6:13 am
          Permalink

          I haven’t read the book yet so I hope they explain that but the way it was shot seemed to imply that.

    • December 21, 2015 at 1:44 am
      Permalink

      or the Kenny Baker character… oh wait, it was in coma all the movie

  • December 21, 2015 at 1:27 am
    Permalink

    So much cheese in this script! Artoo being in a “coma” the entire film was nearly as awful as Padme dying of a broken heart. Luke is a cowardly emo, Han and Chewie are broke down space vagrants, and Leia looks and acts a billion years old. Bravo! The Resistance base flat out sucked in this too. The Massassi Temple was hidden in a rainforest, Echo Base was in the middle of an arctic wilderness but this one was smack dab right in the middle of the fucking open with no defenses whatsoever where anyone could invade them! It also looked like a cheap knock off of Naboo and Takodana almost looked like the same fucking planet.

    • December 21, 2015 at 1:30 am
      Permalink

      Not a bad film if you turn your brain off but it gets worse the more you think about it. Pretty hilarious that some people thought it would win an Academy award.

      • December 21, 2015 at 1:42 am
        Permalink

        If you really think about it, the OT had just as many plot-holes. Star Wars has never been an academic dissertation on how to craft a museum-worthy art film; it was, and is, in-touch with what mainstream audiences want to see. It’s blockbuster film-making at its finest; yes, you may have to turn-off your brain (if you’re not creative enough to draw clues from the movie and invent work-arounds for supposed plot holes), but in doing so you should be opening your heart.

        • December 21, 2015 at 1:47 am
          Permalink

          TFA has few plot holes actually.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:06 am
            Permalink

            Agreed. Many of these so-called “holes” are either explained if you pay enough attention, or left intentionally ambiguous so as to leave enough plot for the next two films.

        • December 21, 2015 at 6:18 am
          Permalink

          Almost every one of the OT plotholes is covered in the EU which is now canon. I never expected it to win awards (unlike some people on here) nor surpass or even equal the original trilogy. I just wanted something better than ROTS which for all it’s bad dialogue and worse CG had more heart than this film did. It’s very sad that random Jedi with no dialogue had better than death scenes than anyone in TFA.

          • December 21, 2015 at 8:58 am
            Permalink

            Woah, sorry bro. The EU is not canon. So all those plot holes have returned. Perhaps you should read up a little more on your assertions, the EU was relegated to Legends, which is meaningless garbage.

            And it’s HILARIOUS that the crap manufactured in the EU is worthy enough for you to fill in plot holes in the movies you’re defending so rabidly?

            Hypocrite much.

          • December 21, 2015 at 10:44 am
            Permalink

            The new EU!

            It’s canon. I can explain it to you in pictograhs or smear my feces on the wall to explain it to you if you like, Might make you feel more at home considering your relatives all feel out of trees or behind bars at the zoo.

            Incest is bad, Mmmkay.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:39 pm
            Permalink

            You didn’t say the new EU, you said the EU. And the new “EU” isn’t even referred to as the expanded universe, it’s simply canon material.

            And there have been too few books in the “new EU” to start recovering plot holes form the original films, which means they exist once more in all their glaring silliness. Imperfect movies many people still love.

            Keep it up with the personal attacks, you’ve completely abandoned all those great opinions and ideas you claimed to want to to discuss here among the other fans in a civil and contrary way.

            LOL. Worst troll ever. Can’t believe it took this little time to get beneath your skin.

      • December 21, 2015 at 2:02 am
        Permalink

        And yet it continues to break box office record after record.

        • December 21, 2015 at 2:11 am
          Permalink

          So did Jurassic world.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:19 am
            Permalink

            And Avatar, and Titantic. Your point?

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:42 am
            Permalink

            …you’re gonna throw Avatar in that counterlist?

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:49 am
            Permalink

            Well it did win 3 academy awards.

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:52 am
            Permalink

            But the point was that Jurassic World won awards but wasn’t very good. I thought you were countering with award-winning films that WERE good.

          • December 21, 2015 at 5:01 am
            Permalink

            Sorry, what academy awards did JW win?

            TFA is a really good film, that is worthy of its box office receipts. Could the same be said for JW?

            On a visual and sound level, Avatar was a good film.

        • December 21, 2015 at 6:11 am
          Permalink

          So did Twilight, Transformers, and Avatar.

          Empire is the lowest grossing film in the saga, So yeah Box Office means nothing.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:19 am
            Permalink

            Sorry, what box office records did Twilight or Transformers break?

            Obviously box office receipts correlate with popularity.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:32 am
            Permalink

            They no longer hold due to inflation rates just like this one will not since tickets are nearly 20 bucks now and rising.

            Not really. Episode I is the highest before adjusted inflation rates. Would you say it’s the most popular Star Wars film of all time?

            People didn’t see this since it was an Abrams film. They saw it since they always wanted to see the OT cast together again and what happened after Jedi. Same reason TPM was a phenomonon.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:47 am
            Permalink

            Well that’s simply not true is it? The 2nd highest grossing film of all time is Titanic (1997), so that kind makes your adjusted inflation assertion irrelevant.

            The PT fared way better at the box office than the OT due to the vast amount of cinema’s they opened to, that’s not a relevant comparison. They were also box office successful because of the SW brand, a by-product of the OT.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:41 am
            Permalink

            Except this isn’t the 2nd highest grossing film now is it?

            Um, Yeah. Why do you think TFA opened like it did? Because everyone was clamoring for an untested cast and Abrams script? You answered your own question.

      • December 21, 2015 at 2:25 am
        Permalink

        Yeah, like when we turned off our brain with ESB. Solo, Leia go dodging asteroids and star destoyers. Meanwhile, Luke trains, becomes uber force user in the same timeframe. Shows up at Bespin nearly a full Jedi. So, ya know, evidently it only really takes a couple days to become a Jedi.

        Same stupid shit in ESB as any of them, including the new one. Everyone seems to overlook that glaring bit.

        • December 21, 2015 at 6:25 am
          Permalink

          Difference was that they knew they were crazy for the asteroid chase and would probably die in doing so. I don’t have a problem with Rey since since she’s Anakin’s Grandchild hence why Luke was able to do that.

          Comparing Indy to SW is apples to Oranges might as well use a Love, Actually one since it has a bunch of characters and has snow in it.

          It’s called selling toys and a theme park ride. Everyone who worked on this made bank. Very least they can do is earn their keep by writing a solid story that holds up on repeat viewings.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:17 pm
            Permalink

            Dude…you’ve posted like 7000 times how awful this movie is.

            We get it.

            Give it a fucking rest already. If you put this much energy into something actually constructive instead of your constant bitching and whining, the world would be a better place. There are a lot bigger issues in the world than a dumb movie.

            Get over it and stop hogging up the Internet with all your damn saltiness.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:21 pm
            Permalink

            Haha! Yet you felt the need to read them and comment. Makes perfect sense. Enjoy!

      • December 21, 2015 at 2:30 am
        Permalink

        Exactly

    • December 21, 2015 at 1:37 am
      Permalink

      Snark, you’re wild lol but at least you don’t pull any punches about your regards.

      • December 21, 2015 at 1:41 am
        Permalink

        Ha! I said the same thing more or less about The Dark Knight Rises too which many thought was initially superior to The Dark Knight. Right now, Everyone is excited that a new film is back on the big screen again but once it gets to home “video” I really don’t think it will hold up over time for a number of reasons. We saw this happen with TPM too. You take away the retread elements and there’s not much going on compared to the other films.

        • December 21, 2015 at 1:54 am
          Permalink

          I just don’t see why folks are letting these type of critiques get to them so dramatically. You’d think that these people are part of some TFA post-release marketing team being paid 6 figure salaries while their employment is contingent upon vanquishing every unfavorable criticism of the movie that’s on Fan-site message boards, smh.

          It’s like an exorcism is being performed and a demon is doggedly trying to resist the holy water being doused on them. Sheesh

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:10 am
            Permalink

            A film with huge expectations and a huge advertising push deserves huge criticism.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:13 am
            Permalink

            The overwhelming majority of critics all over the world (in different languages and coming from different cultures) have praised the film though and given it high ratings.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:24 am
            Permalink

            Or praise, judging by most of the critical reviews.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:44 am
            Permalink

            Snark is all over every article posted here. He doesn’t like the film. I got that, 4 days ago, yet he’s still here slamming it around and stirring up trouble and hard feelings. He’s a troll, that’s why he’s being kicked around.

            If you didn’t like the film, I feel bad for you, but it’s your opinion. But if you’re coming into a lively discussion where everyone is honestly having a good time enjoying nostalgia and fun from seeing the new movie just to spit in their faces, you’re going to get people pushing back against them.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:57 am
            Permalink

            i love this film too, but all discussion pro and con should be allowed…as long as it stays civil.

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:03 am
            Permalink

            Snark isn’t discussing, though. He’s trolling, and that helps no one.

          • December 21, 2015 at 5:39 am
            Permalink

            Thats the spirit

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:52 am
            Permalink

            I dunno….I don’t see it that way. I’ve read quite a few of his posts and it just strikes me that he simply has unpopular views about things and doesn’t hold back with expressing them- as is his right. Actually it appears that anyone that expresses ANY gripe about this FILM gets immediately attacked and ostracized. Surprised you haven’t noticed? It’s all over these boards- more so than any perceived trolling that he’s accused of. Very interesting….

          • December 21, 2015 at 8:54 am
            Permalink

            How can you not see it that way? He’s posting the same unpopular opinions and views over and over and over and over and over again. Why not just point it once? Or even engage in a debate? He doesn’t engage in debate, he just tells people they’re wrong for liking it and that in 3 months time everyone will think just like him, and he’s the Chosen one for thinking it first.

            I could care less what his opinion on the film is, but he’s being a self-righteous troll in EVERY article on this site because Mommy and Daddy never said they loved him.

          • December 21, 2015 at 9:54 am
            Permalink

            Oh my bad, A_I. I didn’t know that he had actually attacked you on here. I only saw the posts where he was stating/debating his opinions rationally…… I’ll let you two work it out

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:41 pm
            Permalink

            Where is he stating or debating anything rationally lol. And you know everything he’s posted, you +1 every single one. Do you admire him being rude and cruel to other Star Wars fans? Does it give you some weird thrill?

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:03 am
            Permalink

            Because they spent their life savings on all the merchandise and thinks it makes them look stupid if someone disagrees even though it reeks of insecurity.

            They wouldn’t feel so threatened if they did not find at least some of my criticisms true.

            No different from all those manly men feeling “weird” that gay people can marry now and “uncomfortable” when they share their feelings in public. Says more than they know about themselves. Same difference here.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:25 am
            Permalink

            You sound a very bitter individual.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:28 am
            Permalink

            Yet you still felt the need to comment with that vast bit of cosmic knowledge.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:31 am
            Permalink

            Your obviously not very self-aware, but you’re practically foaming at the mouth.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:35 am
            Permalink

            I’m actually pinching out a Chewbacca right now like Snoke was in the film. Though being an Aspie, I can understand why you fail at grasping human emotion.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:10 am
            Permalink

            Rabid, judging by the proliferation of your comments.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:47 am
            Permalink

            I’m flattered. Clearly you enjoy it if you keep reading them. <3

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:49 am
            Permalink

            Left alone in a room, you’d start an argument with yourself.

            Anyhoo.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:54 am
            Permalink

            Yet you keep replying to me even though I never asked you to do so. Out of all the hundreds of comments in here, You feel compelled to heap attention on me. There is a word for that….

        • December 21, 2015 at 8:52 am
          Permalink

          You lead a fulfilling life, telling people what their opinions will be of something in the future on internet message boards that no one is going to care about in 3 months.

          But keep coming back here to post again and again and again. It’s hilariously pathetic. In fact, I’m JUST coming back now to openly mock what a twit you are. Good times.

          • December 21, 2015 at 10:38 am
            Permalink

            You still troll the kiddie porn sites? Might want to get a good lawyer if you don’t want to share a cell with Jared.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:40 pm
            Permalink

            Ouch. New level of low here. You’re really showing everyone on these forums why they should care so much about your opinions you’ve been sharing. Didn’t you say that everyone is ignoring me and paying attention to YOU?

      • December 21, 2015 at 2:30 am
        Permalink

        you won the internet…a cookie…and a ren costume

        • December 21, 2015 at 2:43 am
          Permalink

          thanks mate

      • December 21, 2015 at 5:52 am
        Permalink

        You first!

        • December 21, 2015 at 5:58 am
          Permalink

          oh no you’re one of them

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:26 am
            Permalink

            I’d much rather be than a Kylo fanboy.

    • December 21, 2015 at 1:48 am
      Permalink

      I was never expecting an original story with this first one as Disney wants to play it safe to start after the reception the last three got and can’t afford a fan let down. The film has opened many unfinished avenues and that is a good thing, the next two films will be bigger and better that is for damn sure. Not to mention the chemistry between the new characters.

      • December 21, 2015 at 5:55 am
        Permalink

        Fury Road did it better. Immortan Joe was way cooler looking than Snoke, everything was actually practical AND unlike this film you actually believed you were in that world.

        Not to mention the Han body double looked more fake than the fake CG Maul one that split apart and that was made nearky two decades ago.

        • December 21, 2015 at 6:04 am
          Permalink

          You clearly don’t like Star Wars despite your choice in names, Snoke was an illusive presence and we don’t really know much about him and It’s a different competition when everything is a practical effect. This film had pretty much all scenes filmed on a real, unique location, one worth noting is the last scene in the movie on Skellig Michael. http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me6lgbvEMI1rg1i0co1_500.gif

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:26 am
            Permalink

            He’ll change his nickname, he’s done it before. He’s only been this one a few weeks or less.

    • December 21, 2015 at 2:13 am
      Permalink

      For crap’s sake, why can’t planets look alike? If a planet has an atmosphere and breathable oxygen, evolution happens on that planet the same was it does on another life-sustaining planet. It’s like saying it’s ridiculous to see a forest in The US and one in Europe. Or you can’t have a desert in Arizona because there’s already one in Africa.

      And why is it cheesy for someone to program a droid to stay in low power until the time was right and the missing piece was acquired?

      I swear, some of you people pick the stupidest stuff to complain about for the sake of complaining.

      http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/58161462.jpg

      • December 21, 2015 at 4:01 am
        Permalink

        There are only so many seasons of climate. Yes they could go wildly exotic, but expect a lot more CGI.

      • December 21, 2015 at 6:01 am
        Permalink

        Outside parts of the EU, The SW planets are largely single terrain with few exceptions.

        Lazy screenwriting, Silly.

        I love that you felt you had to take the time to reply too because you felt threatened by someone with a different opinion than you.

        • December 21, 2015 at 8:57 am
          Permalink

          Not the question. The question was why can’t two planets have a similar terrain? Why does every planet have to look starkly different? And threatened? By what someone posts on a Star Wars messageboard? Give me a break.

          • December 21, 2015 at 10:40 am
            Permalink

            Can you not read? Look at what I wrote.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:51 pm
            Permalink

            Yeah, I did read what you wrote. It didn’t make any sense.

      • December 21, 2015 at 7:17 am
        Permalink

        riddle me this: what is the point of creating a superweapon inside a stationary planet that takes whole stars to power? seems like you would have a limited amount of shots…in fact they technically should have only had the one. not to mention the fact that its a sitting duck. this was the worst construction idea since the exhaust port on the first DS.

        • December 21, 2015 at 7:56 am
          Permalink

          Actually, in defense of DS1, the exhaust port, as a design flaw, was pitched as something that the Empire’s military branch would easily overlook as being a fatal vulnerability (-they never would’ve thought that the rag-tag Rebels would use it in an attack strategy). Hence, why they removed it from DS2, smartly.

          But I agree that SB was not well thought out by the writers, nor was it’s threat factor delivered convincingly. This is an instance where drawing inspiration from GL’s original concept terminology (“Starkiller”) was misused and misappropriated. There are a number of other ways that the FO could’ve been shown to be an insurmountable force to be reckoned with, which, would’ve been much more plausible and better than this planet-sized, star-draining, mega-weapon idea. Is it to be believed that this stationary body in space is capable of shooting a massive projectile of cataclysmic energy to ANY planet in the surrounding galaxy? Or was it supposed to only be a threat to worlds within a specific launch-capable range (not to mention the question of how many nearby stars would ultimately even be available to power it, and for how long)??? If the latter is so, then, how difficult would it be to set up counter-detterents in the vulnerable systems while evacuating it’s populations to systems of non-risk? Starkiller Base unfortunately equates to being sci-fantasy on crack requiring too much of a suspension of disbelief, imo. It would’ve been a better concept if it just worked out to be a planet with an abnormally high kaibur crystal compositon or something.

          • December 21, 2015 at 9:30 am
            Permalink

            “…capable of shooting a massive projectile of cataclysmic energy to ANY planet in the surrounding galaxy?”
            .
            Well, of COURSE it is, duh. I mean, how hard could it be; we get that totally awesome shot that shows us these various planets in different star systems are all within a few thousand kilometers from each other – Easy!

          • December 21, 2015 at 9:35 am
            Permalink

            Ohhhhh 😉

    • December 21, 2015 at 3:42 am
      Permalink

      Angry, upset, pay attention to me! To me! Listen to me! I’m angry! I’m lonely! ME ME ME ME.

      • December 21, 2015 at 5:55 am
        Permalink

        Um, Not alone in my opinion but your screen name fits your IQ perfectly. I am glad you are so enamored with me that you feel the need to reply to all my comments too. I’m not interested though but I have some cub scout leaders I can set you up with.

        • December 21, 2015 at 7:24 am
          Permalink

          I knew you’d be like this long before the movie was out you won’t be satisfied unless the movie is handed over to you to direct and write, you are very dogmatic and close minded and there would be people bitching online about your movie too just like you have been. Age old, you cannot please everyone phrase applies. At least around 90 percent of the people who saw it liked it.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:51 am
            Permalink

            I actually preferred Lost Stars which was a Goddamn YA novel and a love story for the most part. I’d have no problem if the author of that wrote it.

          • December 21, 2015 at 8:49 am
            Permalink

            Still angry! Just making post, after post, after post, after post, after post stating the same things over, and over, and over, and over again. Making people mad. I love to make people mad. It’s so much fun. It makes me feel as if I have a purpose instead of sitting here alone without friends or love.

            ME, ME, ME, ME, ME.

          • December 21, 2015 at 10:36 am
            Permalink

            You certainly are. : )

        • December 21, 2015 at 8:47 am
          Permalink

          SO ANGRY! Now I will accuse other people of being dumber than I am for calling me out on my shit! Angry! Mad! PAY ATTENTION TO ME! I MATTER! THE INTERNET SAYS I DO!

          Me, me, me, me, me.

          • December 21, 2015 at 10:34 am
            Permalink

            *crickets chirping*

        • December 21, 2015 at 9:12 am
          Permalink

          I know you’re not alone in your opinion, you have like three but buddies that give you +1’s because you’re their personal Troll and savior.

      • December 21, 2015 at 6:59 am
        Permalink

        Hannity! And you want to question others for being self absorbed. That’s funny.

      • December 21, 2015 at 7:09 am
        Permalink

        you must be new to the internet.

  • December 21, 2015 at 1:56 am
    Permalink

    Kylo Rat should be a good pilot right? He is son of Solo and grandson of Anakin. The death of Han (better in ep8) it would be much more honored for the hero he is, if it was in spaceship sequence. Not by an amateur lightsaber in violent scene for a family screening. A movie that reunites genarations had a shit like that.Theres no meaning for Han to die like that by a coward villain who is his son. They prefered maintain millennium Falcon than Harrison hahaha or Han is not dead thats the JJ’s genius twist to try redeem Kylo Rat argjhh Im so angry by that it spoiled my love for this movie

    • December 21, 2015 at 1:58 am
      Permalink

      Dude, you’ve made your point and others have made theirs back in response to you. Just leave it now, or else it will look like you are just trolling.

      • December 21, 2015 at 2:05 am
        Permalink

        Ok last post or this angry of the screenplay twist will bring me to the darkside. but I love scenes and new characters of this movie I really really do

    • December 21, 2015 at 1:58 am
      Permalink

      Anakin killed a bunch of innocent, little kids in RotS. Just because he wasn’t related to them that doesn’t mean this was less of a sin. And then he took a vicious hack at the man who had been like a brother to him, despite Obi-Wan lowering his guard on purpose (in ANH, I mean, not RotS), not to mention that he cut off his son’s hand without even blinking.

      Violence has been a part of SW since the very beginning.

      • December 21, 2015 at 2:11 am
        Permalink

        Luke didnt kill Vader. Even the monsterous Vader want his son by his side he dueled him but he didnt kill him, he could. One thing is evil acts on a trilogy. other stuff is you promote a character and legend comeback, to kill an Icon of a genaration with sadistics and tragic tones. if you think this is the only surprise in this movie, in a so called mistery box

        • December 21, 2015 at 2:14 am
          Permalink

          So the slaughter of innocent children does not constitute a HUGE crime to your eyes, I see.

          Nice!

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:29 am
            Permalink

            Nah, those are random kids; this was Han fucking Solo! (insert appropriate use of sarcasm)

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:33 am
            Permalink

            Vader also killed Obi-Wan, who was not random at all. And he force choked his pregnant wife.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:38 am
            Permalink

            Exactly. I doubt Han’s death will make Kylo irredeemable within the story, but some people just don’t want to let go of such a classic character. Imagine if we had gotten the prequels first, what the reaction would have been like at Obi-Wan’s death….

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:56 am
            Permalink

            In all seriousness, Han’s death was to be expected. He fit the mold of the mentor and we know that the mentor figure always bites the dust in the first film on a SW trilogy.

            I wasn’t 100% sure if it’d be him, Luke or Leia who would be gone, but I was positive that one of them would die in TFA. And based on Harrison Ford’s thoughts about Han, I wasn’t surprised that it was him indeed.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:08 am
            Permalink

            Vader killing Obi-Wan was a rather emotionless scene actually. It was implied Vader wanted revenge (for having been burned alive and losing his limbs because of Obi-Wan), but we didn’t know at the time anything about his backstory, so we couldn’t really feel it. Besides, Vader strikes Obi-Wan with the lightsaber and Obi-Wan vanishes, which is as low violence as a killing scene can get.

            Anakin/Vader choking Padme was supposed to be a dramatic scene to showcase Anakin as a psycho. Unfortunately, when Hayden Christensen started crying “Liar, you are with HIM etc” and tried to look angry, it just became pathetic.

            Kylo/Ben killing Han on the other hand was on a whole different level. The tension between father and son (reusing OT lines like “this name has no meaning to me”), Ben crying and thanking his father presumably for helping him to excise the light and end his pain, and the lightsaber actually piercing through Han’s chest (something never quite shown that explicitly before on Star Wars) followed by Han falling down the shaft (like Palpatine on ROTJ) were together extremely intense. And then we had the classic “Nooooooo” cry and Chewie’s reaction.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:14 am
            Permalink

            “and the lightsaber actually piercing through Han’s chest (something never quite shown that explicitly before on Star Wars)”

            Ok, that’s where you are wrong. You see it more explicit when Qui-Gon Jinn is killed by Darth Maul.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:52 am
            Permalink

            Lol. At least he wasn’t killed at a wedding! 😉

          • December 21, 2015 at 8:39 am
            Permalink

            they were to innocent, they were jedi…

    • December 21, 2015 at 12:22 pm
      Permalink

      I thought it was a great way for Han to go, to be honest.

    • December 21, 2015 at 9:35 pm
      Permalink

      dude, a son killing his father is not a cross-cultural-spiritual turn off. most cultures and religions and histories have stories of family on family violence. these are violent films, the first 2 prequels get away with it mostly because of droids but consider all the loss of life across all the films. don’t blame the directors and writers for killing a character when it serves the story, and doubly don’t blame them for exposing a violent death to your son when you in fact brought a apparently emotionally ill-equipped child to a pg-13 film. thats not bad hollywood, thats you being a bad parent and not previewing it first

      • December 21, 2015 at 9:55 pm
        Permalink

        This scene is bad vibe, man. Ok so Lucasfilm is not expecting children who grew up with Clone Wars and Rebels, with their parents from a OT trilogy generation, not experience TFA togheter? They even promoted like a generations thing.
        “THIS CHRISTMAS…” ONE LOVE

        • December 21, 2015 at 9:59 pm
          Permalink

          🙂 <3

  • December 21, 2015 at 2:16 am
    Permalink

    Awesome

  • December 21, 2015 at 2:29 am
    Permalink

    michael arndt seems very cheery

  • December 21, 2015 at 3:02 am
    Permalink

    So R2 woke up thanks to BB-8 but not Rey’s arrival. Besides didn’t BB-8 talk to R2 well before the big assault on Star Killer Base.

    • December 21, 2015 at 3:03 am
      Permalink

      I think it’s implied that R2 needed both Rey and the map piece in order to boot up. Seeing as the map was meant for Rey, one wouldn’t do without the other.

      • December 21, 2015 at 3:06 am
        Permalink

        I thought so too, but Abrams just suggested in the interview it was BB-8’s doing.

        • December 21, 2015 at 3:17 am
          Permalink

          He also still refuses to acknowledge that Daniel Craig was in the movie. I think he’s just doing his best to preserve what few secrets remain. Saying “R2 was waiting for Rey” would be a HUGE hint toward her being Luke’s daughter.

  • December 21, 2015 at 3:14 am
    Permalink

    i’m very curious about how this location for a lost jedi temple ended up in the imperial archives. wouldn’t palpatine or vader have noticed it and checked it out? also, how did luke find it but no one else did after the fact? why/how did kylo ren know about it? did luke talk about it before kylo went dark side? so much to speculate on before VIII comes out!

    • December 21, 2015 at 3:19 am
      Permalink

      Speculation is a big part of the fun.

      • December 21, 2015 at 4:37 am
        Permalink

        THANK YOU! I understand the need for clarification in a film, but this is why the fans come around. =3

    • December 21, 2015 at 3:40 am
      Permalink

      Well, in the new canon it states that Palpatine was sending expeditions into the Unknown Regions to look for “the source of the Dark Side.” It’s entirely possible that the Temple was discovered on one of these excursions, hence it being in the Imperial archives (especially any archives on DS1, where R2 got his copy; perhaps the planet was to be one of the DS’s victims after the Rebellion was crushed). Luke could have found out about it at any point post-RotJ; in the new canon, he is very interested in Jedi Temples, and comes across a few of them. He could have discovered the map in a search of former-Imperial archives. Perhaps he did talk to Kylo about it, and once Kylo went Dark, he went after the map only to find it was incomplete. Hence the search for the missing piece, and the events of TFA.

      • December 21, 2015 at 3:54 am
        Permalink

        very interesting, i haven’t caught up on all the new canon yet… this does make me wonder since we’re going to see this old jedi temple, if we will also get to see korriban/morriban at some point as well.

        • December 21, 2015 at 3:56 am
          Permalink

          We might, but I think it’s more likely that we’ll get a ret-conned explanation for the Dark Side. Korriban/Morriband will remain the homeworld of the Sith, but the Sith aren’t the only Dark Side users anymore…

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:01 am
            Permalink

            hmm, but do we know that for sure? i mean they’ve made it clear that kylo isn’t a sith(yet) but we haven’t got anything about what snoke is yet.

          • December 21, 2015 at 4:07 am
            Permalink

            All I know for sure is that Kylo isn’t a Sith (yet). We don’t know if he created the Knights of Ren or if they’re even still around, but they’re for sure different from the Sith. We’ve also seen others in the canon use the Dark Side besides Sith (Nightsisters and Dark Jedi in particular). Snoke may very well be a Sith, but if Palpatine was looking for the “source of the Dark Side” and it was on Morriband, wouldn’t he just go there instead of searching the Unknown Regions?

  • December 21, 2015 at 4:49 am
    Permalink

    I thought I heard Obi Wan in that vision sequence, good to have that confirmed 🙂 , I’d love to see the force spirits back even if it’s in a comic or something that covers the gap between 7 & 8

    • December 21, 2015 at 6:31 am
      Permalink

      I didn´t realize all that!
      No Yoda, no Obi Wan…

      • December 21, 2015 at 12:18 pm
        Permalink

        The only one I though I heard was Yoda. Glad to have that confirmed, because I definitely wasn’t sure!

  • December 21, 2015 at 5:26 am
    Permalink

    I felt the introduction of all characters, both old and new was exceptionally well done in this movie. Interestingly the first old character to feature, was the Millennium Falcon. The only promotional clip of this movie that I’m aware of that was released was the scene of Rey, Finn, and BB-8 making their way to it on Jakku. But any dialogue reference to the Falcon was omitted from the released footage.

    • December 21, 2015 at 5:40 am
      Permalink

      I was buying into Finn and Poe’s friendship and how organic it felt. When they reunite and Finn is running towards to him and they hug, I really, really felt happy in that moment. Finn and Rey’s friendship was amazing. The chemistry is just off the charts. The moment he asks if shes okay, when she wakes him after the explosion on Jakku, the look on Rey’s face, I was sold that moment. Loved the movie.

    • December 21, 2015 at 12:17 pm
      Permalink

      introduction, yes. development and exposure, miserably failed

  • December 21, 2015 at 6:07 am
    Permalink

    There was no dramatic build up to the Starkiller attack either at least not like Yavin or Endor, I think even Naboo had more tension.

    It was just like “So let’s this do thing while the duel goes on and then we’ll watch the credits roll.

    Even in 1977, We really didn’t know if Luke would survive the trench run but Poe’s outcome was ever in doubt. Just fire at shit and let the CG fly past you.

    • December 21, 2015 at 6:09 am
      Permalink

      I’ll concede the CG was more restrained than the PT but it was still more than Abrams said it would be, Especially in the dogfight which is why it was such a distraction fro he duel.

      • December 21, 2015 at 6:29 am
        Permalink

        Obviously they were still going to use a lot of cgi, especially when it came to the dog fights. It’s the character interaction and set pieces that needed to be real.

        • December 21, 2015 at 6:37 am
          Permalink

          I like to think they will go the Fury Road in the next film with truly minimal CG but I have a feeling it will be more of the same in that regard.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:21 am
            Permalink

            Fury Road how a lot more CGI than you think. Watch one of the youtube VFX breakdown. I guess you wanted them to film X-Wing models in front of bluescreen again.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:44 am
            Permalink

            It’s not CG free but still less than this one. If it means it looks better than the dogfights in this one then yes. It did most things better than TPM but the score and space battles are not those things.

          • December 21, 2015 at 10:05 am
            Permalink

            Because they were pretty much ground based in Fury Road.

          • December 21, 2015 at 10:25 am
            Permalink

            Yet a very small portion of this film actually took place in space.

          • December 21, 2015 at 9:15 am
            Permalink

            It it had meant they ended up looking like they belonged in a feature film rather than in round of Battlefront? Hell yes, sure.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:15 pm
            Permalink

            well thats the thing, it probably has. but its so well done you don’t pay attention, cuz the story, music, cinematography and quality of cgi is so high

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:13 pm
            Permalink

            i felt before TFA was released that Fury Road is exactly what VII needs to be, ultimately, Abrams did not deliver and we all know what movie we got

            on the side note, it would be so awesome to have Miller do IX instead of Trevorrow

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:22 pm
            Permalink

            I thought Jakku would be done like it but better but alas that was not true.

            Oh yes! I hope he drops out now. It needs to end on a high note with a pro at the helm lke him,

      • December 21, 2015 at 9:35 am
        Permalink

        the weakest parts of the movie were the cgi heavy parts. at least character cgi. snoke looked like something from lord of the rings. the monsters/creatures in han solo freighter were ok but would have been better non cgi i think.

        • December 21, 2015 at 11:10 am
          Permalink

          Agreed. Maz looked like a Podracer too.

          • December 21, 2015 at 11:51 am
            Permalink

            Talking of lord Of the rings, what about the End Of Mordor scene for our zeros, “look the Eagles are coming”.. . oh no,its the Falcons-The generic cover band..boo..

          • December 21, 2015 at 11:53 am
            Permalink

            Haha! Really? Haven’t seen it since it was in theaters but those films are why I’m glad none of the SW films go past the three hour mark.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:46 pm
            Permalink

            keeping in cannon then. Also, there is a podrace flag hanging on the way in. ties in nicely i think.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:51 pm
            Permalink

            Very clever. The story group needed more like you on the writing staff. That works for me..

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:38 pm
            Permalink

            The podrace flags are there.

          • December 22, 2015 at 7:30 am
            Permalink

            I know that. But her being a former podracer turned pirate makes more sense than being some force sensitive who Sidious convenietly left alone even though her planet has zero defenses and everybody knows her name.

          • December 22, 2015 at 2:28 pm
            Permalink

            You just made a ton of assumptions.

          • December 22, 2015 at 3:02 pm
            Permalink

            She’s been around for 1000 years and has a castle that all sorts of low lifes wade through. Someone would have talked, Especially with Sidious’s connections. Han seems to be aware of her abilities too even though he said he believed it was all mumbo jumbo before meeting Luke,

        • December 21, 2015 at 12:11 pm
          Permalink

          Snoke had a total LotR feel! my first thoughts as well!

        • December 21, 2015 at 1:07 pm
          Permalink

          Agreed wrt Snoke. I fear Snoke has the potential to become (so far the only) major blunder in the new trilogy.

    • December 21, 2015 at 8:46 am
      Permalink

      Starkiller Base was only the B-story for this movie, the A-story being the conflict between Rey/Finn/Han and Kylo Ren. That’s why most of us are fine with the Starkiller stuff; it wasn’t really important anyway. While slightly unoriginal, it served its purpose as an adequate initiator of the proverbial “War” in Star Wars.

      • December 21, 2015 at 10:27 am
        Permalink

        But you are okay with the same Luke who charged head first into facing Vader in the OT inexplicably sitting out the Starkiller battle after Han died and his closest friends and family were about to be annilhated?

        “Who is Luke Skywalker?” remember that lie?

        • December 21, 2015 at 12:08 pm
          Permalink

          the whole part of starkiller base was about 30 minutes (the time it took for it to drain the sun or whatever). Han died about 15 minutes before the planet was destroyed. I don’t think anyone can show up that fast. and frankly, for me, if Luke showed up the moment after (or before) Han died, it would be quite stupied. my point is that I don’t think Luke had any way of knowing its going to happen, and even if he did, it would have been wierd if he made it in time, and I think would just wrong the movie (as a movie, not specifically as a SW story).
          TFA has many flaws, but imo Luke turning up when he did is not one of them.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:13 pm
            Permalink

            We don’t know how close his planet was to the resistance one though and it’s no less weird than him arriving just in time on Bespin though it was a great distance away from Dagobah. He’s also a Skywalker too, Meaning he has the ability to see the future as shown in Empire.

            It would have paralleled Han helping Luke at the end in ANH, Long as they were stealing all the beats from that film.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:37 pm
            Permalink

            So apparently, they didn’t steal all the beats.

          • December 22, 2015 at 7:20 am
            Permalink

            I stand corrected. I guess that passes for originality with today’s suits.

        • December 21, 2015 at 12:14 pm
          Permalink

          You don’t know why Luke did this. You know nothing about his past 30 years.
          Aterall, people change quite a lot in such a time period.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:29 pm
            Permalink

            He still left though and without a trace too. He is nothing if not a responsible character who is very family oriented.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:35 pm
            Permalink

            You could be right that it was a strange move from the writers, but my point is that we don’t know yet. There was only 1 scene with him, and he didn’t say anything. We really don’t know how his character has changed.
            I’ll wait for episode 8 and see what happens.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:42 pm
            Permalink

            A little mystery is fine but he’s the hero of the last trilogy and Abrams said the nucleus of this story revolved around “Who is Luke Skywalker?” Which is why I felt shortchanged. Especially since he was the only OT character with no lines.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:11 pm
            Permalink

            Each to their own, of course. But just as you say, J.J emphasised “Who is Luke Skywalker?”, and we are about to find out. You must remember that there’s a whole trilogy, and we’ve just seen the first film. There’s two more movies comming. Everything can’t be included in TFA.
            He’ll surely have a bigger role in Episode 8, and I personally like it this way. We’ve already gotten to know that he started a Jedi Academy, but it failed. He most likely sees this as his own failure.
            I think this sets up for a very interesting story regarding him, that we’ll find out in episode 8. What has happend to him personally after these events?

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:20 pm
            Permalink

            He did say in regards to this one though which makes more sense considering he wrote, produced, and directed it. I can only hope it’s handled better in the sequels than the mysteries were handled on his TV shows.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:28 pm
            Permalink

            He said it in regards to direct the first film of a trilogy, yes. It’s still a trilogy.
            They are building up the story of Luke. Would you really want everything thrown at you in the first film?
            I’d much rather have a 3 part story, than 3 separate ones set in the same universe.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:50 pm
            Permalink

            He’s not directing the next two though and I don’t think he is writing them either. He should have said that TFA raises the question of who Luke is and not centers around it if that is the case.

            I think even had he died as rumored that there could have still have kept it interesting far as mysteries go. It really sucks that they will likely gloss over Rey’s first meeting and early training with him as all the other episodes take place years afterward.

        • December 21, 2015 at 12:56 pm
          Permalink

          You’re judging a fictional character’s motivations before we have even had a chance to hear what they are. We have no idea why Luke stayed put; maybe he literally doesn’t have a way off the planet, maybe he permanently grounded his X-Wing so as to make his exile complete. Maybe the pained look in his eyes was because he was still grieving for Han. We don’t know. Were you alive in ’77? I wasn’t, but from what I hear this is very similar to what people were experiencing back then: we have only the first film of a trilogy and we’re left with dozens of unanswered questions. Give it time, then judge. Or, you know, keep trolling. (eye roll)

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:06 pm
            Permalink

            I was but this was never intended to stand as a standalone film in spite of the other lie that Abrams said it was like most that the original would be. It also answered far more questions than it raised. He pulled the same exact shit with Lost and Alias too, Most of which were never answered because he never had the answers to begin with.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:18 pm
            Permalink

            JJ had very little to do with Lost after the pilot episode, but his haters can’t seem to get that through their heads. You’re obviously one of them, and someone who has made up their mind to be extremely negative about this film. Fine. But guess what? The world disagrees with you; you may have a few vocal supporters, but you’re all in the vast minority. Are you upset that this movie, meant to tap into the current pulse of pop culture, didn’t live up to your outdated standards? Go cry about it somewhere else and leave the intelligent conversation to the rest of us.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:26 pm
            Permalink

            Classic plausible deniability. Criticism is not hatred either. I still find Clones to be the worst of the saga. So intelligent that you are threatened by a differing opinion than your own and cannot justify the film’s plotholes. I’m sorry I offended your safe space, Next time I will give you a trigger warning weeks in advance. Here’s your participation trophy for being a part of this thread.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:39 pm
            Permalink

            Eat shit, dick head. You’re the type of person who was going to hate this movie no matter what; you’re picking apart things that are either clearly stated in the film or heavily implied, but you’re so dead-set in your criticisms that you can’t see what’s right in front of your face. I know you’re not representative of your whole generation, but I’m sincerely glad we have a slew of new fans waiting to take your place once you’re too old to bitch anymore.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:43 pm
            Permalink

            Lmao! Wow! Defensive much? Actually no, I went into this one with low expectations. As for the new fans, Tell that to all the PT ones. They do exist in small numbers but most have them have fled for other fandoms.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:56 pm
            Permalink

            Not defensive, just not feeling the need to adhere to social niceties seeing as I’m faced with a troll who took it upon himself to start insulting me. Whatever; stew in your own shit because I’m done.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:01 pm
            Permalink

            You replied to my comment, Not the other way around. You also started it up too. But I appreciate the honesty all the same, Nothing good ever good comes of fake niceties. Same to you too.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:31 pm
            Permalink

            “Eat shit, dick head”. You’re truly a comedic wonder, clown.

      • December 21, 2015 at 12:10 pm
        Permalink

        theres this golden rule of any kind of writing, if somethings not important to the story LEAVE IT OUT OF THE STORY. i agree that the whole Starkiller plot was absolutely unnecesary, they just kept it there to sell more xwing toys and give Poe (a brillaint underused character) some exposure

        • December 21, 2015 at 12:53 pm
          Permalink

          I didn’t say it was unnecessary, I said it was secondary to the main plot. If the focus of this movie was Starkiller Base, it would have been far more fleshed out. As it stands, it was fleshed out only as far as it needed to be to further the main plot.

          And if we’re being technical, the entire movie was only made to sell toys. These are blockbusters, not indie art films; if there was no profit motive, they wouldn’t get made.

        • December 21, 2015 at 1:04 pm
          Permalink

          Starkiller base was necessary to make the Republic unable to keep assisting the Resistance and to lay down the framework for the new balance of power in the galaxy that we will see in Episodes VIII and IX.

  • December 21, 2015 at 8:01 am
    Permalink

    Arndt struggled with script featuring Rey meeting with Luke in 2012. JJ , Kasdan took part in script writing in 2013. So the character Rey was conceived by Arndt and , probably, Lucas. This is rather big reveal ?

    • December 21, 2015 at 8:23 am
      Permalink

      They said they used alot of what Lucas and him, and even Kasdan (Who pregamed with Lucas) had outlined. I believe Kasdan was involved with the conception of Rey.

      From I took in though, Lucas wanted multiple grandchildren of Vader, and they wanted to go a different direction, I believe they only went with one, Kylo Ren/ Ben Solo.

      Lucas just felt that his story/vision was altered drastically because of the things they decided to change, but it could minor things that just had significant implications on the overall story and vision lucas, so he made that comment. I believe Rey, Finn and Poe were Lucas’s ideas.. Kylo ren I believe, was made up by Kasdan and Abrams.

      • December 21, 2015 at 9:28 am
        Permalink

        If Lucas was involved in the conception of Rey,Finn, Poe, he should have ” character created by ” credit . I looked into the credit , but seemed nowhere mentioned his name , may be I overlooked.

        • December 21, 2015 at 12:21 pm
          Permalink

          the first credit to show up was “based on characters created by George Lucas”. having said that, i think it was apincredibly disrespectful; since they released the poster i was saying they needed to do it “star wars created by george lucas” like they do in TCW and Rebels

        • December 22, 2015 at 11:35 am
          Permalink

          You may be right. I’m not sure. Hearing JJ pushed for a female lead, so I may be wrong. It was just a thought

      • December 21, 2015 at 6:41 pm
        Permalink

        We don’t know yet if they went only with one as Rey could still be related to Vader.

        • December 22, 2015 at 11:32 am
          Permalink

          I saw the movie again and now believe Rey is indeed the daughter of Luke Skywalker, so my comments on the subject mean nothing now.

  • December 21, 2015 at 8:20 am
    Permalink

    If this film was released 3 years after ROJ would you guys consider: this is a good screenplay for a sequel?

    • December 21, 2015 at 8:42 am
      Permalink

      No, because all the actors would have been too young. It’s an excellent sequel based on the ages of the original actors in real life.

      • December 21, 2015 at 7:30 pm
        Permalink

        That’s what makes it a great film. Right.

    • December 21, 2015 at 5:33 pm
      Permalink

      Of course it wouldn’t be.

      It’s not a perfect script but I’d love to hear better ideas for how to make a sequel nearly 40 years later with major characters that are now pushing 70.

  • December 21, 2015 at 9:24 am
    Permalink

    So if Luke always takes center stage when he appears how will they prevent this in Episode VIII?

    Also can someone explain to me how Starkiller works? Maybe I missed something but it ate up the whole energy of the sun the planet was orbiting to fire one shot, right? Where did they get the energy for the first shot from? And what happens when the energy of the sun is used up? It cannot fire anymore and the planet cannot host life anymore? Pretty stupid for a superweapon don’t you agree?

    • December 21, 2015 at 9:28 am
      Permalink

      Well, Star Wars never have cared a lot about physics, it is more about magic, and some not understable power…

    • December 21, 2015 at 9:32 am
      Permalink

      I think Rey has more presense now, she has established her own identity. luke will always control a scene, but he wont completely overshadow her moving forward. she now has a backstory, and we are invested in her.

      • December 21, 2015 at 9:37 am
        Permalink

        I am agree… in this case Han sadly made the story for Kylo, and also we could say for Rey and Finn.
        We could say that she really has inherited the Millenium Falcon and Anakin saber, instead of Kylo.

        • December 21, 2015 at 6:38 pm
          Permalink

          Interesting that she inherited both Han’s ship and Luke’s lightsaber to create even more confusion about her lineage.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:55 pm
            Permalink

            I would not buy that point, precisely because the movie is inssinuating that point hardly.
            I believe that in the Jedi world the links between Master and Appretince go beyond blood links.
            Snoke has his Apprentice.
            I believe Luke has now his.
            In some way for me would be weird a blood link between Master and Apprentice, I almost prefer Luke and Rey are not related.

          • December 22, 2015 at 4:18 pm
            Permalink

            I think it means more sense if the saber will goes back to Luke and Rey will create her own in the process of her training to become a padawan. The falcon will probably goes to Chewie. I mean he’s the co-pilot like forever.

          • December 22, 2015 at 5:00 pm
            Permalink

            But Luke has his own lightsaber. He had to made a new one in ROTJ.
            For Kylo is a kind of Fetish, he seems to be a collector of Vader stuff.

    • December 21, 2015 at 10:23 am
      Permalink

      Now that Rey has a skills foundation but for the character it won’t matter in 8. We all know Rey is a bad ass and Luke will admire that.

      I had all these questions too but watching it a second time made me love it. Everything makes a lot more since now.

      • December 21, 2015 at 11:08 am
        Permalink

        My current (and possibly premature prediction) – Rey will give in to the dark side – either by temporarily taking Kylo’s place at Snoke’s side or she’ll do it by diving head first into a rescue attempt to save the people she cares for (ala Luke in a ESB). At first she’ll convince herself that tapping into the dark side gives her the necessary power to do the “right” thing but then she’ll be brought out of it by the end of VIII or midway thru IX. Luke will possibly make the ultimate sacrifice to ensure that this happens.

        • December 21, 2015 at 6:36 pm
          Permalink

          Rey doesn’t look like the type that would easily turn to the dark side (at least, not yet). She should have been full of anger after Kylo killed Han and nearly killed Finn. Nevertheless, her duel with Kylo and the way she beat him were 100 % light side (she closed her eyes, controlled her fear/emotions and let the force in).

    • December 21, 2015 at 10:27 am
      Permalink

      ” It cannot fire anymore and the planet cannot host life anymore? Pretty stupid for a superweapon don’t you agree?” Good observation. It’s similar to my own actually.

      My OPINION is that it was a misguided and lazy plot device. Doesn’t mean the movie isn’t entertaining but that the concept of this weapon/base wasn’t fully thought out.

    • December 21, 2015 at 1:41 pm
      Permalink

      But does it destroy the star? Not even the star itself is capable of burning all it’s energy at once, it takes billions of years. Will the star eventually, start burning again?

    • January 4, 2016 at 11:32 pm
      Permalink

      From what Ive read the star killer base uses hyperspace funneling to syphon the stellar material from a very nearby star and houses it inside the planets magnetic containment system.

  • December 21, 2015 at 10:30 am
    Permalink

    So the same Luke Skywalker who faced Vader not once but twice to save his friends is now a cowardly emo who hides when his closest friends and family are about to be wiped out by Starkiller.

    Whatever happened to “Who is Luke Skywalker?”. His name is mentioned 5 times max here. We sure learned a lot about him, Quality writing right there.

    • December 21, 2015 at 10:31 am
      Permalink

      Even emo Luke was done better in the NJO if you substitute his name with Jacen and that was one of the shittiest story lines there was.

      • December 21, 2015 at 11:33 am
        Permalink

        The weapon is just technology, it can be built on any planet. Once they use all of the stars energy they will move onto another planet and build another one. The efficiancy of the First Orders exit from Starkiller base suggests that they always expected to abandon the planet after it had out lived its usefulness. I would guess that binary star systems would appeal to them. Maybe they can even adopt it for asteroids and comets. I don’t think it’s planet specific. That’s the only way it makes sense to me. Although in saying that, I wasn’t a great fan of Starkiller base at all

        • December 21, 2015 at 11:38 am
          Permalink

          Yeah, Another issue I had. If it really is mobile in that sense then the NRI would be all over it decades ago. Especially considering what happened with the Death Stars. I wish I could say we are done with superweapons but we all know what Rogue One is about.

        • December 21, 2015 at 12:46 pm
          Permalink

          Tht “efficiency” of the evacuation as you say just highçights why Hux is far superior to Tarkin. As I discussed before, Tarkin wouldn’t even consider getting a shuttle ready to leave just in case the rebel attack succeeded (he wouldn’t leave in his “moment of triumph”). Hux on the other hand is the one who tells Snoke they had to evacuate and probably already had a contingency plan for that.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:32 pm
            Permalink

            Hux was great, I enjoyed his character, glad he will be around for at least another movie. His contempt for “Ren” was nuanced perfectly, it seemed like he snarled or spat it out everytime he mentioned his name. His speech before the destruction of the Hosian system was brilliant, he put every 20th Century dictator to shame! Superb performance

    • December 21, 2015 at 11:23 am
      Permalink

      I keep hearing that Luke is a coward/failure etc for being in exile and not helping at the most crucial of times, and that this is out of character. However, I’m more of the opinion that Kylo Ren/Snoke have done something so terrible to him (killed his wife?), that Luke’s anger and hatred towards them is such that he has felt the true power of the dark side within himself. This has caused him to exile himself in order to prevent the darkness enveloping him. He understands the consequences of him embracing the dark side of the force. So him being in self imposed exile makes a lot of sense to me. It will be through his reconnection with his daughter that he can finally return to the galaxy in order to vanquish the darkness

      • December 21, 2015 at 11:28 am
        Permalink

        I get that he would have lost his confidence which would have made for an interesting performance on Hamill’s part but we never actually got to see it at all in this one and I very much doubt after Han died that he would just abandon his only Sister with no explanation and leave her to die with Starkiller looming overhead. Like with Finn being a Jedi, They pulled a bait and switch on explaining or attempting to explain “Who is Luke Skywalker?”.

        • December 21, 2015 at 9:29 pm
          Permalink

          that wasn’t a bait and switch. it was the question JJ was asked to think about before he decided to come on board. in which case he did answer the question… in a character treatment. all the characters have been written out already. at no point did they say this film would focus on Luke in any way shape or form. in fact it was hinted he had a tiny role to begin with.

          • December 22, 2015 at 7:27 am
            Permalink

            I’ll have to dig the interview up on here. Regardless, I remembered hearing him saber train and get in shape before shooting. Yeah, He gained weight over the years but we didn’t see him shirtless in this one either. They could have easily covered it up with his cloak like a pregnant woman had they did that.

    • December 21, 2015 at 12:14 pm
      Permalink

      There is a plausible reason why Luke is missing . I bet it will be explained in Episode VIII.

      • December 21, 2015 at 12:17 pm
        Permalink

        Should have tried to explain the awakening considering all the other film titles were self-explanatory.

        • December 21, 2015 at 12:19 pm
          Permalink

          I am still not sure what the awakening really means. I think that was left intentionally vague.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:26 pm
            Permalink

            Along with “Who is Luke Skywalker?” Those were major points in all the pre-release articles,

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:20 pm
            Permalink

            I think the title refers to the force awakening within Rey. The sequence in Maz castle involving the lightsaber and the visions, is coming from the force encouraging her to awaken to its call.
            I’m guessing she, like Kylo Ren, has equal potential for light and dark force ability. Kylo Ren mentions to Vaders helmet that he hears the light calling to him, but rejects it. As the force desires balance it calls to Rey in the same way.
            Snoke is channelling the dark side, aided by Kylo Ren, as he is a Skywalker, and the Skywalker family line has such power within the force that their influence, for either light or dark, can tip the balance, so at this time the dark side controls the destiny of the galaxy. I believe Luke influence is diminished as he is conflicted because of past events, and in exile in order to prevent his descent to the dark side.
            Therefore the force awakens within Rey so that she can help Luke bring the force back into balance. Or something nothing like that 😉

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:28 pm
            Permalink

            That is what we are led to believe, except that Snoke and Kylo feel the awakening long before the lightsaber calls out to Rey. I don’t think the timing was unintentional.

            Maybe the awakening is triggered by Rey meeting BB8 or, maybe, unlikely though it may be, it doesn’t refer to Rey at all, even if Rey is obviously the new “chosen one”.

        • December 22, 2015 at 4:00 pm
          Permalink

          The movie is slightly more than 2hrs. Not alot of time to do that many explanations. I wanted the blu-ray to have the extended version to include more details.

          • December 23, 2015 at 4:12 pm
            Permalink

            The other films have all has similar run times more or less though. I thought it was done beautifully in the OT not so much in the PT.

            Did you reserve the film yet? I’m holding out since I think we are getting the 4 hour version in time for Rogue One or Episode VIII.

    • December 21, 2015 at 10:05 pm
      Permalink

      🙂

      • December 22, 2015 at 7:22 am
        Permalink

        Even though I hated them naming Anakin after his Grandfather it would have made more sense than him being who Leia never met and Han never really knew.

  • December 21, 2015 at 12:06 pm
    Permalink

    oh my god, these are such poor excuses for otherwise weak script and unjustified marginzalization of characters essential to SW.. in all 6 movies R2 and 3P0 had accompanied our heroes on their journeys, in this one, one is powered off the whole movie while the other speskes two lines and stares at the exactly same screens he did in ANH. such a wasted opportunity right there. even BB8 was so mariginalized in the last act of the movie, we dont even get a single shot of him at the back of Poe’s XWing (outside of the one from teaser), while in every SW movie during dogfighting there was interaction between pilot and astromech. I can go on forever why this movie while maintaining the look of SW was story, script and crative-wise nothing close to any (pick your least fsvorite) installment of our beloved franchise

    • December 21, 2015 at 12:15 pm
      Permalink

      Exactly! Artoo was a major reason why Luke got so far in the battle of Yavin but BB-8 was just a decoration to Poe’s X-Wing.

      • December 21, 2015 at 12:17 pm
        Permalink

        If it were not for BB8, Artoo would never have been awakened. So, BB8 is essential to the story.

        • December 21, 2015 at 12:19 pm
          Permalink

          He should have played a larger role in the final battle though like Artoo did in the other films.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:21 pm
            Permalink

            It just goes to show that no one applies the poetic essence of the story of SW better than Lucas himself- even if he drops the ball on writing and direction of said story at certain points.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:24 pm
            Permalink

            I really hope they at least turn his original treatment into a comic now like they did with ANH.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:27 pm
            Permalink

            Very interesting notion but something tells me that Disney (and, to a slightly lesser extent, JJ and KK) would possibly find that to be risky and threatening to the product that they’ve delivered so far, so…..

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:32 pm
            Permalink

            Good point! It sounds like all his ideas became the backstory for TFA in between trilogies which I found way more interesting than VII.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:47 pm
            Permalink

            Looks like we may never know. Somehow I sense that his delivery of the ST would’ve been the engaging affair that he’s capable of producing. Those damn prequels really did him though.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:49 pm
            Permalink

            You may be right. With the OT cast and Kasdan aboard, As well as the PT’s reception in his mind I think things would have turned out differently than the Prequels did. Unlike then, He would have a little help too.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:00 pm
            Permalink

            I doubt it. Episode VII with GL involved would still be full of cartoonish CGI planets/aliens, superpowered Jedi (lots of them), and bad lines. He would have come up with a more original story though.

          • December 22, 2015 at 3:56 pm
            Permalink

            Wow….. i don’t know the cons seems more than the pros..I think i’d just keep the TFA as it is right now. As much as i think GL’s story might be very different, i simply can’t imagine PT style movie again. NO freaking way.

          • December 22, 2015 at 3:54 pm
            Permalink

            Why would it be more interesting if ideas haven’t been published? Where did you find it? I would love to read them.

          • December 23, 2015 at 4:09 pm
            Permalink

            I’m just speculating since they sound like something he’d write. I’m curious to know who did what on this new script. The episode IV sounds more like JJ while all the Han dialogue and new characters feel like Kasdan. We’ll probably never get an answer to that one as is usually the case in screenwriting unfortunately.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:26 pm
            Permalink

            I don’t see any poetry in “I don’t like sand”, “Liar, you are with HIM” and all the nonsense of the prequels. It suffices to compare the scene of Kylo killing Han with Anakin choking Padme,or a single hug between Rey and Finn with two hours (!) of “romance” between Anakin and Padme, to learn how to do it and how not to do it.

          • December 21, 2015 at 2:39 pm
            Permalink

            The scene between Anakin and Obi-Wan on Mustafar was way more tense than the lame and predictable Kylo/Han scene. And no matter what anyone says, Hayden does the angry act way better than Driver.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:05 pm
            Permalink

            ???????????????WOW??????????????WTF!!!!!????????!!!!!!????????????????????????????????!!!!!!?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

          • December 21, 2015 at 5:15 pm
            Permalink

            Yeah…I can respect different opinions but sometimes I read some stuff here that is just..wow.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:36 pm
            Permalink

            You seem like a smart fellow.

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:37 pm
            Permalink

            Did you have a stroke or is that a language I’m not aware of? I can’t believe anyone would type that badly.

          • December 21, 2015 at 8:11 pm
            Permalink

            Yeah, nice one.

          • December 21, 2015 at 3:31 pm
            Permalink

            The Vader.OBK fight wasn’t predictable? lol

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:39 pm
            Permalink

            Not for what it was. We all knew it would end with Vader in the suit, but that’s not the film’s fault.

          • December 21, 2015 at 6:29 pm
            Permalink

            Kylo ‘s personality is characterized by confusion and pain, more so than anger. His anger is just a result of his frustation. And, of course, Driver was way better than Hayden (there is no comparison really).

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:22 pm
            Permalink

            Whatever you want to believe, but there are so many parallels between Kylo and Episode III Vader, that it is easily clear Hayden was better. Compare Kylo’s whiny sounding (and ridiculous facial expression) “Traitor!” to Vader’s “Liar!”. All he said was delivered in a weak voice, while Hayden gives his all in lines like “You will not take her from me” and “I hate you”. Say what you will about his portrayl of Anakin, but he completely nailed the anger of Vader. Kylo acts more like Episode II Anakin.

          • December 22, 2015 at 3:48 pm
            Permalink

            No way…. Even my nephew said that Hayden looks like a sullen teenage and he was 13 at that time….. Says alot about Hayden’s acting in SW. I don’t know about angry but Driver does crazy way better than Hayden.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:22 pm
            Permalink

            Artoo is at least 60 years old. We don’t usually use 60-year-old equipment/hardware in major battles, do we ? Give it rest, the original droids had their days of glory. Now they should enjoy a deserved retirement. I’m actually surprised they are still around and have not been “decommissioned”;

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:25 pm
            Permalink

            He was 50 in the OT and it clearly means nothing long as he keeps up with maintenence.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:30 pm
            Permalink

            Even worse, he is 80 now !

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:34 pm
            Permalink

            The Falcon’s nearly twice as old as that and was the hero vehicle of the show.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:38 pm
            Permalink

            To provide an excuse for Rey and Finn meeting up with Han. Personally, I would not have used the Falcon either, but it served a purpose in the story and it was inevitable (fanboys wouldn’t take Rey piloting just any random ship to flee Jakku). I can’t see any purpose in putting Artoo inside Poe Dameron’s cockpit though. Having him as the key to completing the map on the other hand made a lot of sense.

          • December 21, 2015 at 12:45 pm
            Permalink

            He should have helped Rey, Chewie, Finn, and Han in Starkiller. Would have made much more sense.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:14 pm
            Permalink

            In our world, 60 years is a lot. In the world of star wars, something 60 years old is still highly advanced. R2 is not an iPhone. The big technological steps we’re currently making do not occur anymore in the world of Star Wars, just like they (most likely) will not be so apparent anymore in the next millennium in our world.

          • December 21, 2015 at 1:20 pm
            Permalink

            Which BTW is a problem that I have with the Star Wars universe; Technology should always evolve in an advanced society unless there is a major catastrophe or event that sets that civilization back. Compare Star Trek to Star Wars in that respect (the next generation is always technologically more advanced than the former). To JJ’s credit, he did try to upgrade the TIE and X-wing fighters and he upgraded the Death Star.

          • December 21, 2015 at 8:15 pm
            Permalink

            Fair enough. But not once did BB-8 do anything heroic the way R2-D2 did in ALL 6 previous films. Quite the opposite, the droid had to be saved all the time (by Rey first and Han later). Not a promising start for R2’s heir-apparent, IMO.

        • December 21, 2015 at 2:36 pm
          Permalink

          That wasn’t even properly hinted at in the actual film. That is why everyone wondered how R2 just suddenly wakes up. They had to explain it after the fact to cover up their badly written plothole.

        • December 21, 2015 at 7:19 pm
          Permalink

          Meh. That was the only wonky part of the film for me. Could have saved 30 seconds from the Luke helicopter shot to give a better explanation of why R2 woke up.

        • December 22, 2015 at 6:03 pm
          Permalink

          My gut feeling when R2 awoke was that it was because Rey had arrived. That is what is making me believe she may be Luke’s daughter.

      • December 21, 2015 at 12:17 pm
        Permalink

        Artoo was also a major reason that TPM Anakin was able to be successful against the TF droid control ship above Naboo.

        • December 21, 2015 at 12:18 pm
          Permalink

          There ya go! He also saves the day at least once in ever film….but this one.

  • December 21, 2015 at 1:30 pm
    Permalink

    It’s pretty funny how all the negative comments are full of people complaining that there weren’t enough shoe-horned ways of using characters, or that the plot didn’t go into enough detail about the political landscape of the galaxy, or that the lightsaber duel wasn’t showy enough; after years of complaining about the PT, now they want to criticize TFA for not feeling enough like the PT! Some people are just never satisfied…

    • December 21, 2015 at 2:34 pm
      Permalink

      Or maybe the PT did those things better, which it did. The people that hated the PT are the ones that seem to love TFA. They got what they wanted.

      • December 21, 2015 at 4:33 pm
        Permalink

        I like both ROTS and TFA.

        • December 21, 2015 at 5:27 pm
          Permalink

          Same here.

        • December 22, 2015 at 6:11 pm
          Permalink

          I’m with you too!

      • December 22, 2015 at 3:39 pm
        Permalink

        Watching PT is like watching cartoons at times. i mean come on! Jar Jar Binks! PT more disney than TFA that’s for sure.

  • December 21, 2015 at 1:55 pm
    Permalink

    If one of the new secrets is a better film, with a better and charismatic hero and a truly imposing villain…i would love to know.

    • December 21, 2015 at 1:58 pm
      Permalink

      Tell me, how exactly were Rey or Finn not charismatic? How were Snoke nor Kylo Ren not imposing? We get it, you didn’t like it; it doesn’t make it a bad film, it just means you didn’t like it.

      • December 21, 2015 at 5:03 pm
        Permalink

        Daisy Ridley can’t act, and her delivery was flat. Being sweet or cute does not make you good actor.

        Boyega can act and did well, but his character was the worst in the whole film and was pretty much useless. So made his efforts mute.

        The CGI on Snoke was laughable. I’ve seen better on PS2. And this was Andy Serkis’s weakest peformance.

        Kylo Ren is the main villain but his only kill was a defenceless Han Solo. Otherwise, a lowly stormtrooper who worked in a canteen put up a fight against him and he got his ass handed to him by a scavenger…and he spent most of the film whining about the light side tempting him.

        • December 21, 2015 at 5:12 pm
          Permalink

          A truly insightful critique of the movie. (Eye roll. Fart sound.)

          • December 21, 2015 at 7:28 pm
            Permalink

            A truly insightful critique of this truly insighful critique of the movie. (No fart joke.)

          • December 21, 2015 at 10:49 pm
            Permalink

            A truly insightful critique of this truly insightful critique of this truly insightful critique of the movie.

        • December 21, 2015 at 8:39 pm
          Permalink

          Oh really? So Lor San Tekka and an entire village of innocent beings didn’t die by either his hand or direct order?

          You are full of it, buddy.

        • December 21, 2015 at 10:06 pm
          Permalink

          For me Daisy is the most lovely and energetic actress of 2015 and 2017 and 2019(?)

          • December 22, 2015 at 2:19 am
            Permalink

            And that’s why I wouldn’t take your opinion when deciding if someone is a good actor or not. Thankt though

        • December 22, 2015 at 8:15 pm
          Permalink

          Regarding Kylo Ren’s lightsaber fight against Finn and Rey, don’t forget that he took a bowcaster bolt to the gut and was bleeding out in the snow before the duel even began. So, it’s not like Finn and Rey didn’t have a handicap working for them. I think Kylo Ren’s villain cred is still strong even though he barely escaped with this life.

          • December 22, 2015 at 8:57 pm
            Permalink

            How do you respect a villain that because of a SINGLE shot to the belly, he gets DESTROYED and almost KILLED by a scavenger who just recently had the force awaken in her.

  • December 21, 2015 at 4:56 pm
    Permalink

    Does anybody else know the answer to this: If Artoo and the First Order both had the map to first Jedi Temple (where Luke was thought to be), except they were both missing the final piece to the map showing the exact location of the planet, then does that mean that the Empire never had that missing part of the map? Art supposedly got the map from the Death Star when he plugged in. We can safely assume that the First Order got the map from the Imperial archives. So their information is identical. But nobody had the missing piece except for Luke, and then Lor San Tekka. Did the Jedi not list the location of the first temple in their archives? Or did some smart Jedi erase that portion of the map before departing Coruscant? One of these must have happened, because the Empire didn’t have the info.

    • December 22, 2015 at 12:57 am
      Permalink

      Follow up question – that missing chunk was like 10% of the entire galaxy. How did NONE of it line up with any known star systems exactly?

  • December 22, 2015 at 3:37 am
    Permalink

    “I hope Chewbacca kills Kylo Ren ” hahahaha
    “Luke has to bring him LIGHT and also cut his both arms and one leg”

  • December 22, 2015 at 9:32 pm
    Permalink

    K, wait a sec – The idea was that R2, while plugged into the computer on the DS to locate Leia’s cell and the tractor beam owner’s manual, downloaded the ENTIRE Imperial archive, on the off chance that it might be useful some day? So here’s a puzzler – if the ENTIRETY of recorded Imperial knowledge can be DL’d in a matter of seconds, and carted around in something as small as R2, why would the Empire bother with big computers to store it in he first place?

Comments are closed.

LATEST POSTS ON MOVIE NEWS NET