Mark Hamill Addresses Luke in Star Wars: The Last Jedi
The Last Jedi has had its fair share of controversy. One of the most debated and talked about storylines in the movie is that of Luke Skywalker. The Force Awakens left us with a (literal) cliffhanger, and The Last Jedi picked up right where Episode VII left off, but not necessarily how many people thought it would. One of those people is Mark Hamill himself. Back around the time of Star Wars Celebration 2017, Hamill spoke to Vanity Fair and said “I at one point had to say to Rian, I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you’ve made for this character. Now, having said that, I have gotten it off my chest, and my job is now to take what you’ve created to do my best to realize your vision.” Many outlets ran with the idea that Mark Hamill disagreed with seemingly everything that writer/director Rian Johnson did to his beloved character.
This isn’t the first time a Star Wars actor has disagreed with its director. During the filming of A New Hope, Harrison Ford famously told George Lucas “You can type this ***t, but you can’t say it!”
During the press tour for The Last Jedi this past month, Hamill spoke more about his role of Luke Skywalker in the new film:
I said to Rian, Jedi don’t give up. I mean, even if he had a problem, he would maybe take a year to try and regroup. But if he made a mistake, he would try and right that wrong” also adding “Right there we had a fundamental difference, but it’s not my story anymore. It’s somebody else’s story.
Again, the internet went crazy. Articles all over covered the quote, many of which concluding that Hamill doesn’t like Rian Johnson’s version of Luke Skywalker.
Yesterday, after a ridiculous rumor was posted on Twitter (which we won’t even quote here) that Hamill didn’t know about Luke’s fate in The Last Jedi until he saw the movie (allegedly, a surprise move by Disney to kill him off because of his open disagreement with Johnson), Hamill spoke again on the subject, offering a different perspective:
I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill https://t.co/8ujJfBuEdV
— @HamillHimself (@HamillHimself) December 26, 2017
The tweet came as a response to The Stupendous Wave’s tweet of Hamill saying:
I’ve had trouble accepting what he (Rian Johnson) saw for Luke. But again, I mean, I have to say, having seen the movie I was wrong. I think being pushed out of your comfort zone is a good thing. Because if I was just another benevolent Jedi training young padawans, we’ve seen it!
Actors, of course, are allowed to have their opinions about the characters they play. Imagine playing one of the most iconic characters in all of film, and then having a new person come in and tell you a different path for your character than you’d thought of yourself. It would be jarring at first. After all, Mark Hamill has been Luke Skywalker since 1977 (that’s 40 years!). I can’t speak for Mr. Hamill, but I know if I’ve been a character that long, I’m part of the character, and the character is part of me. The man is allowed to have his opinion on what he thinks Luke’s story should be. However, Rian Johnson was ultimately in charge of telling that story. Yet, like Mark Hamill said, being pushed out of your comfort zone is a good thing. We got a different Luke Skywalker than most expected, but different does not necessarily a bad thing.
Whether or not Mark’s comments were taken out of perspective it’s fairly obvious that at this point in the film’s release, his comments weren’t likely to help the box office and would help fan the fire of discontent.
His retraction is basically damage control, either by himself or more than likely as a result of having been spoken with/to by an associate(s) of the Mouse.
On the plus side, that he has gone to the trouble of trying to edit his previous statement(s) probably means we will more than likely see him return with a shimmering blue aura in Ep9.
Or it could mean he didn’t want to be “Prowse-ed” (Excommunicated).
I kind of agree. Disney seems to be a bit on their heels with this movie – even though it is doing very well at the box office. Apparently just not quite as well as they were hoping. This smells a bit like damage control. But it’s perplexing. TFA – by most people’s account – was a safe, by the numbers, “reintroduction” to “Star Wars.” It didn’t take chances. And some people complained about that. Now TLJ comes along and sort of slaps everyone in the face and some people love it and others are insulted. It wasn’t the “safe” movie. It was daring, and some loved it and others are pissed about it. Sometimes, Star Wars fans are the worst. We can’t be pleased. I’ve never seen a perfect “Star Wars” movie. Yes, even for those of you who have a shrine to “Empire” somewhere in your homes (and I know there are many of you) – ESB wasn’t a perfect movie. I just hope they (Disney/Lucasfilm) don’t decide to go back to the “safe” approach and mirror things that came before without taking chances. Because – given the choice – I think not taking chances is worse than taking risks.
I agree in as much as I wasn’t a fan of TLJ I’d hate for Disney to play it totally safe.
We all remember what Harrison Ford wanted for Han Solo after Empire.
Solo would be dead after 2 films.
Luke’s journey showed that even the best among us make mistakes. I think that lesson is a great addition to the Star Wars Mythos.
We’ve seen Luke make mistakes. Repeatedly. It’s what made him a relatable protagonist. His biggest accomplishment in ESB is making it out of the movie alive.
But sneaking into your nephew’s bedroom in the middle of the night while contemplating murdering him is more than a mistake. It’s completely unrelatable. It’s criminal.
Rian Johnson sacrificed characterization (and logical storytelling) for shock and subversion. Luke contemplated nephew-cide. Poe singlehandedly destroyed more of the Resistance fleet than the First Order. And Finn and Rose freed space horses instead of enslaved children … then allowed a duplicitous criminal to overhear Holdo’s plan. Some heroes.
We’ve seen Luke make mistakes. Repeatedly. It’s what made him a relatable protagonist. His biggest accomplishment in ESB is making it out of the movie alive.
But sneaking into your nephew’s bedroom in the middle of the night while contemplating murdering him is more than a mistake. It’s completely unrelatable. It’s criminal.
Rian Johnson sacrificed characterization (and logical storytelling) for shock and subversion. Luke contemplated nephew-cide. Poe singlehandedly destroyed more of the Resistance fleet than the First Order. And Finn and Rose freed space horses instead of enslaved children … then allowed a duplicitous criminal to overhear Holdo’s plan. Some heroes.
Luke went in the room to see into his troubled nephew’s mind in a misguided attempted to help. He unexpectedly caught a glimpse of the future Kylo and for a split second thought about killing him to prevent the rise of the First Order.
Emm…The whole movie is about overcoming failure and bad judgement. Everyone learns from their mistakes in this movie. That’s the point. As for Luke, he is momentarily tempted to do something dark, but quickly stops himself. he fears another Anakin Skywalker. Luke is not immune to temptation as no one is.
If you could go back in time and shoot a 20-year-old Hitler in World War I, knowing everything that would eventually happen later, would you be a horrible murderer for saying yes, or would the ends justify the means?
Oh, and this is the same guy that was inches away from committing patricide:
http://starwarsvisualizer.ff0000.com/media//images/600px/ep6/v1_608—Vader-loses-Hand_HR.jpg
People tend to forget that temptation plays a big part in a good number of stories, including ‘Star Wars’. Anakin gives in to temptation in killing Dooku at the behest of Palpatine. Luke proves himself better in one case by sparing his father despite coming so close to killing him in ‘Return of the Jedi’.
Luke outright says in ‘The Last Jedi that after seeing all the pain an misery Ben would cause led to one moment of temptation, one that he overcame in an instant and regretted immediately. The tragedy is that Ben saw him and reacted accordingly.
Im glad he spitted out the truth about the garbage rian johnson wrote for Luke, him regreting this is LFL picking up the phone and told him to do it…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph12Quu4mio
Newsflash. Luke Skywalker has made mistakes all his life. Let go of the perfect hero fantasy.
Its ok to do it, he is not perfect i would be so damn boring
its just he saved vader and then he tried to murder his nephew IN HIS SLEEP!!! we all made mistakes and have fears but why not talk to him? and if he is way too deep into the darkside ok we have a problem… they probably fight and kylo ren escapes with some of his students leaving Luke devastated and secluding into an island TO FIND A SOLUTION, not to die there depressed and hopeless…
He had a momentary temptation by the dark side which he quickly overcame. He feared Ben would ruin everything again like Anakin did. Is Luke supposed to be immune from temptation? Is anyone capable of avoiding all forms of temptation? Of course not. But the consequences of that temptation lead to a slaughtered Jedi Academy, a fallen nephew, and a strengthened First Order. The trust of Leia and the families of the fallen students was placed on Luke, and he felt like he had failed them all. A vacation on an island is not going to make that shame and regret go away by reading some old books. That’s a type of shame you take to your grave, as Luke intended to do. I don’t know how Luke simply brushes off all that went down as just a bad day at the Academy and then goes to kick the First Order’s ass like so many people were expecting to see happen. He’s burdened by the hero myth both in the movie and among the fans, who have no willingness to let him be a human being and react in a way a real person would.
How about Luke just go and confront Snoke rather than Ben? What would you do if someone was destroying and misleading someone you cared about?
So he takes on Snoke, Kylo Ren who is of course with him, the Praetorians, legions of stormtroopers – all at once? Luke is powerful, but not that powerful.
Yeah that would be crazy, like surrendering yourself to the Empire, taking on the Emporer, his evil apprentice and potentially a Death Star full of stormtroopers ;p
Yeah that would be crazy, like surrendering yourself to the Empire, taking on the Emporer, his evil apprentice and potentially a Death Star full of stormtroopers ;p
As long as your dad was there to save you at the verge of death and your friends were simultaneously mounting an assault to blow up the ship.
Ahh…good times. Good times.
we dont know nothing about Snoke thanks to RJ… you know jedi’s are very good at sneaking behind enemy lines…
No, he had the New Republic and Resistance to back him up. The odds were far worse in the Galactic Civil War. The FO were a rising power, a fringe government at that point in time. Decisive action could have stopped them in their tracks, but Luke chose to go into hiding in stead, allowing the FO to grow beyond the NR’s control, and ultimately to conquer the galaxy, and murder his best friend.
The New Republic had no interest in getting involved. They sat back and let the FO grow unchallenged. They still didn’t want to do anything but tacitly support the Resistance at the start of TFA. If Leia couldn’t convince them to actually do something, what success would Luke have had?
He did not know for sure what would happen. The Resistance were able to destroy Starkiller Base when the FO were at the height of their power. Who knows what they might have achieved with Luke’s help with the FO still in a fledgling state, and Kylo still untrained for the most part. Either way, the Luke we knew would have tried to stop them. He might have failed, but he would have tried. TLJ Luke just fave up without a fight.
Luke was in no state to lead a rebellion after the destruction of his academy crushed his confidence and he became consumed by the guilt of failure.
Luke was in no state to lead a rebellion after the destruction of his academy crushed his confidence and he became consumed by the guilt of failure.
Did you miss the part where Luke instantly overcame his desire to attack Ben? He ultimately resisted the dark deed just as he did in ROTJ when he had Vader on the floor. Luke thought about killing him, but never went through with the act. And if Ben hadn’t woken up, I’m sure Luke would’ve had a talk with him in the morning. But of course, it was too late…Ben saw the ignited lightsaber and misconstrued what was going on. People seem to totally gloss over the fact Luke had only a momentary lapse in judgement before catching himself….I think that’s HUGE, and lines up with the Luke we’ve always known…an audacious man, but a righteous man at the end of the day.
Nope i didnt but he is now fully trained and more wise… i guess the reaction of Luke is very similar to when he looks at his hand at the end of ROTJ. why use his darkness again?, he overcame that darkness when shove up palpatine’s ass his lightsaber and decided not to fight, why rian used him as the final reason of ben solo falling into the darkside? making him a coward is messing up his character just to make an impact on the audience.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/00bd6f8f8d0a72839bb7179f0815a52a2bfcc42c216aca8258832d3dbb58f0c6.jpg
Ugh, don’t remind me of that shitty Yoda puppet. That was my biggest problem with TLJ, honestly. That puppet is just not very good. They nailed Yoda’s actual character, though.
It was a bit off. But apparently they used the same Stuart Freeborn molds from the archives. I don’t know, maybe the lighting was the problem.
Maybe.
After Episode IX’s theatre run has finished, we’ll find Mark Hamill face down in a muddy river somewhere.
The mouse never forgets.
Frankly, I’m surprised Mark Ruffalo and Tom Holland are still alive after their MCU spoiler leaks. After ‘Infinity War Part 2’ wraps up filming, though, who knows?
Dead men walking.
I’m just discussed by people saying now ”Well, he is payed by Disney to say that”. You are literally shitting on one of the best humans on this world, just for sake to continue shitting on movie you didnt like, because you don’t have any other argument. That man said he doesn’t agree with choices Rian made, if Disney wanted him to lie about that, they would pay him before movie is released, and also, he would newer sold himself as some of You think. He disagreed with Rian about his character, and now he realises how all of that worked pretty well. He also realises that Luke is not perfect hero as some of You want him to be. Luke made small mistake that least for 2 seconds, he pulled his own lightsaber, and he told himself ” At that moment I only saw a boy who is failed by his master” and he didn’t want to kill him realising what he has almost done, but no, You immediatelly think ”HE WANTED TO KILL BEN, NOT MY LUKE!!!!! RIAN RUINED EVERYTHING FOR ME, HE RAPED MY CHILDHOOD!!!!” I mean, grow up, Luke is still our hero, not the same after 30 years, and he shouldn’t be, if he is the same character after 30 years, that would be the shittiest character arc. Also, yes, Jedi do give up, Yoda gave up when he run from Sidious, and he went to Dagobah, Kenobi kind of gave up, and he was hiding for 20 years, but at the end of the day, they still have a roll in the story. And also, Luke sacrifised himself at the end so resistance can escape, he gave all of his energy to project himself from his own body on another part of Galaxy, and he came back to his body at least short time, which makes him in canon the most powerfull Jedi that ever lived. Yes, he was not my Luke Skywalker, he is something even more!
And same people who yell RIAN RUINED MY CHILDHOOD, WE WANT GEORGE BACK, also yelled 17 years ago GEORGE RAPED MY CHILDHOOD, REMOVE HIM FROM STAR WARS!!! Hypocrites!!
Luke’s address? It’s 666 Lactation Island.
Dude….is all that an Iron Maiden reference?
Luke may be short for a stormtrooper, but his name is also short… for Lucifer.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WxnN05vOuSM
Suh-weet. Those spandex clad muther fuckers even threw Godzilla in there. Did anyone else see Chewie at the beginning?
God bless the 80’s. So ridiculous. So campy. So fun. Anyone who doesn’t think Steve Harris is a god doesn’t know metal…..
Suh-weet. Those spandex clad muther fuckers even threw Godzilla in there. Did anyone else see Chewie at the beginning?
God bless the 80’s. So ridiculous. So campy. So fun. Anyone who doesn’t think Steve Harris is a god doesn’t know metal…..
All these shocks that Luke had a dark side moment. What is the first thing he does in RotJ? He walks into Jabba’s palace and force chokes twi Gamorrean Guards. Where’d he learn to do that? Sure as hell wasn’t Yoda or Obi-Wan. Since becoming the last Jedi, the force has surged through him, both the light side and the dark. I’m amazing he isn’t more effed up than he is. Becoming a wise Jedi and rebuilding the Jedi order is safe and boring and unrealistic for a character that powerful with no instructor.
Uh, choking evil gamorrean guards that work for a giant slug who’s got your sister held captive and best friend in carbonite is totally NOT the same thing as trying to kill the son of your sister and best friend while in a position of trust…not even close.
You’re right, because Kylo was even worse. He went on to kill BILLIONS of people, and Luke sensed that darkness. Kylo’s death would be more than justified, let’s be honest.
I’d have been happy if he was killed before the pointless ‘look at my cartoonish pecs’ scene, but we all have dreams.
Re: ‘look at my cartoonish pecs’ scene
Just curious – were you upset by that cartoonish ‘look at my figure & tits’ scene w/Leia in RoTJ?
Or did that scene *stir* something in you enough to bother you? Sounds like it’s stuck w/you long after viewing to bother commenting on it.
lol
He may have been complicit, but the guy responsible for all those deaths was golden bathrobe boy. Or was it ridiculous ham actor guy that gave the order?
Sorry, you’re right, Kylo didn’t DIRECTLY kill all those people, only all those Jedi students and a bunch of villagers and probably a ton of other people.
Happy now?
To be pedantic (Can you imagine a Star Wars fan being pedantic?) That doesn’t amount to billions. He wouldn’t get convicted in a court of law based on the evidence we have 😉
“a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.” – Yoda, ESB.
Saying I regret saying it in public is not the same as saying I regret what I said.
And seriously, I know being a man is harder for some males than it is for others. But if you really believe abandoning your friends and loved ones is a just a “mistake”, that’s pretty fucked up.
“Saying I regret saying it in public is not the same as saying I regret what I said.”
Or, “saying I regret saying it in public” is the same as I regret saying this in public as I’ve now seen the finished product… and I was ultimately wrong.
This one Hamill tweet will not negate the past two to three years of Hamill criticism of the Disney Sequels.
In literally every interview and public appearance, Mark Hamill has been vocal against the direction taken by Disney/Kennedy/Abrams/Johnson from the start. Mark Hamill even supported Lucas’ plot over Disney and enjoys the Prequels.
Disney Star Wars is the Original Trilogy repackaged and renamed with different actors playing slightly different roles. The American public thought they were going to see Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi. Instead we got Jake Skywalker.
“In literally every interview and public appearance, Mark Hamill has been vocal against the direction taken by Disney/Kennedy/Abrams/Johnson from the start.”
To add some weight to your argument, how many interviews/public appearances did Mark Hamill state this in? Please provide evidence to back up your claim.
Need to understand this to counterweight Mark Hamill publicly coming out in admitting he was ultimately wrong.
here you go: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mark+hamill
Yeah, that’s what I thought.
Yeah, that’s what I thought.
That’s interesting given that one of Lucas’s surviving ideas for the sequel trilogy was a broken, exiled Luke.
That’s interesting you think no one else read the Art of Last Jedi book which clearly states that Lucas surviving ideas were used in Episode VIII instead of Episode VII as Lucas intended.
You said that Hamill supported Lucas’ plot over the Disney/Kennedy/Abrams/Johnson plot. You are the one that acted like you weren’t aware that the two plots were virtually the same.
In fairness to Hamill, he signed up in 2012 thinking George Lucas would be writing Luke Skywalker for this Trilogy. So he gets blindsided by JJ when he finds out he’s not in Episode 7 until the last minute. Then he gets his movie in Episode 8, but it’s a new Director who is writing HIS spin on Luke Skywalker. I think Hamill only trusted Lucas to write his character because I’m sure they’ve talked about post ROTJ Luke before.
Makes you wonder that had he had all the information about where his character was going, would he have been as happy to sign on the dotted line?
I don’t get the impression he’s purely in it for the money.
One thing i don’t understand is Luke tells Rey ” You think i came to this island expecting to be found?”
Not those exact words but something like that, But if Luke never wanted to be found , why leave a piece of the map with R2?
The map was actually supposed to lead to the first Jedi temple where Luke was believed to be. He never left a map behind intending people to find him. I think the map pieces were just information gathered on how to get to the Jedi temple.
The map was actually supposed to lead to the first Jedi temple where Luke was believed to be. He never left a map behind intending people to find him. I think the map pieces were just information gathered on how to get to the Jedi temple.
One of the stipulations of Marks contract is that he promote the movie and shower it with praise.
We know what he really thinks though.
Actually, no you don’t: your confirmation bias is making you draw a conclusion on insufficient evidence.
You paid Disney shills are something else. You’ll stoop to any level.
You sound like you are on drugs.
Is that satire or are you really serious?
If that was indeed the case, then at some point (his interviews) he would have been in breach of contract.
SPOILERS!!!!!
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
–
Like the bulk of his character or not, the final confrontation with Kylo was perfect. Luke saves the resistance, not by attacking but by knowledge of the Force and by using defense.
If the final confrontation was so great, then why do the majority of real Star Wars fans feel like it sucked?
“majority”?!
The majority of people here loved it, slick:
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2017/12/poll-how-would-you-rate-star-wars-the-last-jedi.html
Re: “majority”?
I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
Hint: It doesn’t mean, “me & this person I found who agrees with me.”
Majority? Real? Come on man. I accept that more people loved it than hated it. Look a kid who grew up on the PT and loved it… doesn’t make him less of a fan than me. We all have our reasons for loving/hating different parts of Star Wars.
Are you seriously asking me to explain why other people don’t have the same opinion as me? Perhaps you should ask them to explain?
If I had to guess, its because people already had/have a separate head canon and really wanted to see Luke in an amazing epic light saber fight. I just feel that would have shown Luke really never learned anything… As Yoda said in ESB “a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.” That’s how Luke saved Anakin and how he saved the Resistance.
“that would have shown Luke really never learned anything”
Exactly! If he had rushed into battle, it would have shown that Luke didn’t evolve as a character over the years. He had been contemplating why the Jedi Order failed during the Clone Wars, after all, and realized that their own self-righteousness, their own vanity led to their downfall.
“majority of real Star Wars fans”
Please.. elaborate on what makes a ‘real’ Star Wars fan…
Not a satisfying end for Luke at all….Leaves when the New Republic is still in control, the FO is a fringe unit? He had all the advice of a ghost Yoda and Obi-Wan…He could have commanded a whole army to hunt down Kylo..
This is not the Luke we knew nor the one we deserved.
The New Republic is useless. They allow the First Order to rise unchallenged, and then when it becomes a major force they still won’t do anything except tacitly support the Resistance with no major commitment of their fleet or resources. Leia couldn’t get them to act, why would Luke be any different? What military authority does he have in the NR to command, and how is going to do that when he’s lost all confidence in himself as a leader and consumed with the guilt of failure?
The New Republic is useless. They allow the First Order to rise unchallenged, and then when it becomes a major force they still won’t do anything except tacitly support the Resistance with no major commitment of their fleet or resources. Leia couldn’t get them to act, why would Luke be any different? What military authority does he have in the NR to command, and how is going to do that when he’s lost all confidence in himself as a leader and consumed with the guilt of failure?
Back to guidance with the force ghost that everyone forgets about….I’m sure that Luke with the wisdom of the ghost, Leia and some of the others and based on events with the Emperor being a Sith, that he would have been able to get the resources needed. Not to mention whatever crazy force powers he may have that we don’t even know about. I mean, he could project himself across the galaxy…..
Jedi commanding armies… Where have we seen that before, and how did it end?
“a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.” – Yoda in ESB.
Unless you know you are going after a dark sided force user and know their identity, which Yoda did not.
Sorry, I think I missed that part about “unless its a dark side force user.” Of course, we see Luke do the exact same thing in RoTJ (and opposite of what you think he should do) by tossing his saber away in the end and refusing to fight…
But he showed up and wasn’t hiding…
But he showed up and wasn’t hiding…
“Saving what he loves instead of attacking what he hates” Johnson is a poet :/
Luke is basically Saul Goodman from Better call Saul and Breaking Bad.
So he has to show some evolution from being the good guy taking care of his crazy brother Chuck (Vader) to become Heisenberg (Han Solo) funny lawyer. Sadly JJ didn´t please us with a solid evolution of Solo character like BrBa did with WaWh.
As much as I love the character and person, I wish he would have kept his mouth shut and if he had a problem wait until everything is done with and in the future.
His upfront negativity i guarantee contributed to so many “fans” not liking the movie. Not to mention it is disrespectful!
Sorry but this trilogy isn’t Luke’s and its about giving new characters the opportunity to change the galaxy, the prequals was Vader, the OT Lukes and not Ben/Rey and new directions.
I personally loved what they did with Luke, Jedi might not give up, but he does want any Jedi, there is to be something new for the Light and Dark.
I believe controversy is part of the business (even fake mistakes and accidents too).
Obi-Wan – Leaves his apprentice for dead, stops fighting the Empire, hides in the desert for 20 years
Fans: “Sounds cool to me.”
Luke: Has a flash of darkness for 5 seconds, ultimately saves the Resistance, hides on an island for about 6 years
Fans: “MY CHILDHOOD HAS BEEN DESTROYED REEEEEEE!!”
Obi-Wan – Leaves his apprentice for dead, stops fighting the Empire, hides in the desert for 20 years
Fans: “Sounds cool to me.”
Luke: Has a flash of darkness for 5 seconds, ultimately saves the Resistance, hides on an island for about 6 years
Fans: “MY CHILDHOOD HAS BEEN DESTROYED REEEEEEE!!”
Don’t forget that coward Yoda sitting making soup in a swamp for 20 years while the galaxy was being consumed and oppressed by an evil regime led by a Sith Lord. What kind of heroic Jedi Master is that?
Coward Yoda at least faced Sidious after his order was wiped out, and the galaxy completely controlled by Sidious forces. Obi-Wan and Yoda were forced into hiding by circumstances. Luke just gave up and did nothing but hide on a rock, while he still had a significant fighting chance. The New Republic controlled most of the galaxy, and the FO was a much weaker force at that time. Luke really was in a position to do something about the rising FO, having the Resistance and New Republic to support him, unlike Obi-Wan and Yoda who had to face the Empire on their own, since it would take another twenty years for the Rebel Alliance the grow into a significant force.
Coward Yoda at least faced Sidious after his order was wiped out, and the galaxy completely controlled by Sidious forces. Obi-Wan and Yoda were forced into hiding by circumstances. Luke just gave up and did nothing but hide on a rock, while he still had a significant fighting chance. The New Republic controlled most of the galaxy, and the FO was a much weaker force at that time. Luke really was in a position to do something about the rising FO, having the Resistance and New Republic to support him, unlike Obi-Wan and Yoda who had to face the Empire on their own, since it would take another twenty years for the Rebel Alliance the grow into a significant force.
You mean that ridiculously absurd fight scene where Yoda is a turbo ninja bouncing around with a saber like a rabid squirrel in the imperial senate? Sorry but you made a prequel reference…I’m still trying to drink that away…
That’s sort of beside the point. I agree the PT is flawed in many respects, but the argument was that Obi-Wan’s and Yoda’s situations are comparable to Luke’s, which I don’t agree with. While the execution in the PT may be lacking, Obi-Wan and Yoda did fight Sidious and Vader, despite the terrible odds, but were ultimately forced into hiding. When Luke’s academy was destroyed, the Republic was still firmly in control, so Luke exile was his own selfish choice. to the detriment of his friends and the galaxy as a whole.
That’s sort of beside the point. I agree the PT is flawed in many respects, but the argument was that Obi-Wan’s and Yoda’s situations are comparable to Luke’s, which I don’t agree with. While the execution in the PT may be lacking, Obi-Wan and Yoda did fight Sidious and Vader, despite the terrible odds, but were ultimately forced into hiding. When Luke’s academy was destroyed, the Republic was still firmly in control, so Luke exile was his own selfish choice. to the detriment of his friends and the galaxy as a whole.
Why can’t characters be flawed?
Absolutely!
Tell me how Luke walks up to Snoke, Kylo Ren, the Pretorians and legions of troopers and kills them all.
The New Republic had the opportunity to challenge the FO, yet refused, which is why the Resistance is doing it and was still trying to convince the senate to intervene when they unveil a planet killing weapon and the capital is destroyed. They were completely complacent and apathetic to the threat early on and were still hesitant to get involved at the time of TFA. If Leia couldn’t convince these politicians to act, do we think Luke would be any different?
Luke’s exile is motivated by feelings of guilt of the failure of his own family and those he was entrusted to, whereas Yoda’s was seemingly the result of being outnumbered.
How about doing the same thing they did two decades earlier? Luke and his rebel friends brought down an Empire controlling the entire galaxy including Vader and his Sith master. Are you suggesting it would somehow be impossible to stop a group of extremists in the unknown regions with the support of the Resistance and the Republic fleet, in a situation where the good guys are actually in control of most of the galaxy and it’s resources? Luke and his friends faced far more unfavourable odds in the past, yet TLJ would have us believe Luke just gave up, and allowed the galaxy to be plunged in a second darkness. I don’t buy that.
The Resistance is that Rebel Force, but they don’t have any substantive Republic support. They aren’t being helped by the Republic fleet or any significant resources.
Luke’s exile is not about “giving up” on the fight against the FO, it’s about the failure of his family and his Academy. The experience has crushed his confidence as a leader, filled him with guilt and he has no interest in attempting to gloriously lead another rebellion in the wake of that.
The experience has crushed his confidence, because the story required it in my view, not because it is consistent with his character. We’re talking about a character that would rather sacrifice himself by letting himself fall into oblivion, than join a man who actually was every bit as bad as he feared his nephew might become. A man who was his own father. Did this experience break his spirit? No, he eventually redeemed his father, and became a Jedi against seemingly impossible odds.
Sacrificing himself into oblivion is exactly what Luke does at the end of TLJ. But young Luke never failed on a scale old that Luke did. If young Luke had done something that caused the people under his care to be slaughtered and betray him, who knows how he would’ve turned out. I don’t know how someone goes through something like that without a serious hit to one’s confidence and a world of guilt.
Thanks, you said it for me.
*ahem*…….that’s 22 years.
*pushes up glasses*
a patient one…whom had to wait for the only one that could redeem or face vader when the time was right. Yoda would have been destroyed had he emerged.
And what chance would Luke have to single-handedly destroy the First Order?
Because, when Luke left the New Republic was very much in control and the resistance was at it’s strongest. He didn’t leave like Yoda and Obi-Wan had to. He was in his prime and had all the allies and resources to stop the FO and Snoke before all this nonsense happened.
Single-handedly? The New Republic and it’s allies control most of the galaxy and it’s resources at this point in time.
The New Republic is utterly useless. They refuse to do anything to challenge the First Order and Leia is still trying to convince them to help when the capital gets blown away. They were a bunch of pacifists and apathetic do nothings.
Again Luke might have tried and failed. In stead he just gave up without trying. If Luke, a supposed close friend, brother, ally, and Jedi Master, won’t even stand up against the FO, why would a bunch of faceless bureaucrats in the New Republic. Luke was as much of a coward, and equally useless as the New Republic, contrary to everything he once stood for. The Luke we knew was willing to go on a suicide mission to destroy a space station even without Jedi powers. How the mighty fall…
He was in no state to lead another rebellion. He was completely broken by the experience of the loss of Ben and the Academy. His spirt was crushed. His confidence in himself was destroyed. I don’t know how he simply puts all that aside and forgets it all to lead a glorious attack on the FO.
Well I have difficulty accepting Luke would raise his sword against his nephew just for having dark thoughts. I might have bought it, if we had seen Kylo hurt one of Luke’s students. The scene lacked a proper setup in my view.
I also have difficulty accepting Luke’s spirit would be broken by the experience, when the loss of his hand, finding out his father, the man he worshipped all his life, is the second most evil man in the galaxy, and the fact that his mentors lied to him, would not.
He raised that same sword against his father, Darth Vader, and brought him to the brink of death based on dark thoughts which he overcame. And Luke saw what Kylo would become – the murderer of millions.
No, not based on dark thoughts. He raised his sword because of the real threat against his sister and friends, who he witnessed being destroyed by the second Death Star and the Imperial forces. Even then it took Palpatine quite some time to get Luke to snap. It’s the difference between real danger, real deaths versus a vision of a possible future, that Luke might help prevent. In stead he helps it come true.
No, he resists fighting his father until anger over the suggestion from Vader of turning Leia to the dark side makes him snap. The Emperor applauds this. His wrath in wailing on Vader into submission is purely from a dark place. Anger has nothing to do with the light side. Only after he has Vader defenseless at the end of his saber does he look at his hand, realizing he is himself turning into Vader, does he turn and throw the saber away.
You’re ignoring the part, where Luke tried to slice Palps in half, which started the fight between Vader and Luke. Palps had been pushing Luke’s buttons, and Luke was clearly in distress over the seemingly hopeless situation of the Rebel Alliance. Although Luke sort of composed himself, Vader and Palps continued to taunt Luke until he finally snapped when Vader threatened his sister. Luke snapping was not just some moment of temporary insanity, as he would display with his nephew, it was built up over the course of a number of scenes.
Great comparison TUD!
The mental gymnastics / cognitive dissonance required is amazing.
Agreed.
This would suggest I liked anything that happened in the PT. I do not.
As for Obi-wan… his order was destroyed. He wasn’t powerful enough to make a difference. At least not then. Plus he just happened to hang out near the son of his former apprentice?
Yoda… again… is an old master on the verge of death. This is why the PT still felt so wrong. He never ever should have been combat capable. Hell to me Yoda was clearly beyond fighting. So in tune with the Force that he’d never lower himself to such baseless fighting. All he can do is pass on his teaching.
Luke was an idiot. He then ran away after putting the galaxy on that terrible course. He’s responsible for the death of his best friend, loss of his nephew to the dark side… and decided he should stay out of it after that. It took guilt and Yoda to snap him out of it. I’m all for flawed heroes. Dumb ones? Nah.
I want to be super clear. I think almost everything everyone did in the PT was stupid. So yeah Luke easily matches up to those idiots. I expected more of him.
Yoda doesn’t need a lightsaber or to jump around like Sonic The hedgehog to tear shit up. He can do it with a wave of his hand. Nothing about him being old would’ve prevented that.
I can sort of agree with that… but it felt like using the Force for conflict back then (The OT era) was something he wouldn’t do. At least from the wise old master POV. It was more of a failing of the Order and their best and brightest turning dark. I still get bummed thinking of what could have been. Anakin could have been so… amazing.
Big difference…Obi-Wan had to hide to preserve and protect Luke so that one day he could rise and over throw the Empire.
Luke would have never made the one bad decision with Yoda, Obi-Wan ghost there to advise him. He also would not have abandoned his friends and loved ones. Too out of character.
This was not Luke, this was Jake!
You say it’s “out of character”, but even George Lucas wanted that to happen to Luke in his original treatment of Episode VII. Luke being broken is the whole point – your childhood hero made a mistake and became a weird hermit guy, but he proves in the end that he’s still the hero we all knew.
If they wanted him broken, then they should have found a better way to do it. He fled while the New Republic was still in control, and had all the knowledge of a 900 year old Yoda on tap.
Maybe if we had found out that Luke unleashed some crazy power that had wiped out the Jedi academy by accident and he felt he was a danger to everyone…then ok.
He did unleash that crazy power. It was called Kylo Ren.
But I see where you’re coming from.
I made of drawing my living, and I will never draw better than when I was 18-20, may be the same, but not better. Many more drawings in your archives.
I guess this lightsaber skills must be pretty similar to that.
Luke: “I’m not afraid.”
Yoda: “After Disney, you will be. You will be.”
https://i.redd.it/o9f3khu09r601.jpg
Okay I really liked TLJ but that’s just damn funny.
perfect!!!
I wonder which group of fans didn’t like TLJ. Was it the OT fanboys? The PT fanboys? The GL purists? The people that said Disney Saved SW?
I myself like most of Star Wars but would have to say that the new Disney films have been my least favorite so far. That being said TLJ is my favorite of the new films.
People who had legitimate problems with any number of things in the movie that prevented them from enjoying it.
People who can’t accept change or evolution of characters.
People who only wanted to see the safe, familiar and predictable.
People who were upset the movie didn’t match the one they already directed in their heads.
People who think Luke is a flawless Jesus superhero and should never display weakness or doubt of any kind.
People who didn’t pay enough attention to the movie whose problems with it are easily explained.
People who decided to hate it and call it an Empire rehash before it even came out.
People who hated The Force Awakens and decided the entire trilogy would also suck.
Alt Right losers who hate the presence of women and minorities.
People who had legitimate problems with any number of things in the movie that prevented them from enjoying it.
People who can’t accept change or evolution of characters.
People who only wanted to see the safe, familiar and predictable.
People who were upset the movie didn’t match the one they already directed in their heads.
People who think Luke is a flawless Jesus superhero and should never display weakness or doubt of any kind.
People who didn’t pay enough attention to the movie whose problems with it are easily explained.
People who decided to hate it and call it an Empire rehash before it even came out.
People who hated The Force Awakens and decided the entire trilogy would also suck.
Alt Right losers who hate the presence of women and minorities.
I can tell that you replaced the word “idiots” with “people” from your second example on before posting. lol
Here’s one, right on cue! Did you really take the time to scour through the code to find whatever words I decided not to ultimately use? Wow. You really know how to spend your time constructively.
Hey I’m just depressed by the company I’m apparently keeping. Trust me… it sucks being anywhere near the same camp of the alt right nuts.
Totally understand. I almost want to like the movie just to not be associated with the Alt right haha.
It’s humorous/confusing when some of the same people who claim those who didn’t like TLJ are alt right, also state in the same post how they really disliked R1. A movie with a strong female lead, and a diverse cast.
Totally understand. I almost want to like the movie just to not be associated with the Alt right haha.
It’s humorous/confusing when some of the same people who claim those who didn’t like TLJ are alt right, also state in the same post how they really disliked R1. A movie with a strong female lead, and a diverse cast.
Really? “Here’s one” So which one do you think I am? I’m wondering how you’re going to up your ‘asshole response’ game in your reply, like you’ve done in other replies around here. I can’t even casually visit this site anymore without seeing your ass replying to anyone who casually disagrees with your opinion. The Manifesto that you just posted above is proof of your utterly beligerant psychotic fixation on this. You’ve made it clear that you think the vast majority of people who didn’t like TLJ are idiots or alt right asshats and the internet has given you permission to be a prick to any who stands in your way. Gotta wonder if you have some shit going on that’s putting you in this place. Reply and insult me all you want, but if all those terrible people out there who don’t like TLJ are pushing you over the edge, get some help: https://www.crisistextline.org/
Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
Manifesto? HAHAHAHA. Yeah, I’m out here in my cabin in the woods just frothing with hate over this.
Oh, God. Get a life. More over-dramatic, hyperbolic horseshit from a psychoanalyst wannabe who doesn’t know how debate works. I’m so sorry I ruined your entitlement to shit endlessly on a space fantasy movie unchallenged by attempting to rebut the lame, predictable and self-serving gripes that you whine about this thing. I’m so sorry I enjoyed a movie that you didn’t and the vast critical consensus and readers of this website agree with me and not you. That must really chap your ass. I’m surprised that you can stand to be on a site where so many people liked the film, which is clearly an affront to you. I’m such a prick for liking a movie and then defending it. And I guess you chose to ignore the FIRST THING I wrote in that list: People who had LEGITIMATE problems with any number of things in the movie. You need to get into the world of theater. Put all that over-the-top melodrama to some actual good use. You can apply to the prestigious Yale School of Drama here: https://drama.yale.edu
Manifesto? HAHAHAHA. Yeah, I’m out here in my cabin in the woods just frothing with hate over this.
Oh, God. Get a life. More over-dramatic, hyperbolic horseshit from a psychoanalyst wannabe who doesn’t know how debate works. I’m so sorry I ruined your entitlement to shit endlessly on a space fantasy movie unchallenged by attempting to rebut the lame, predictable and self-serving gripes that you whine about this thing. I’m so sorry I enjoyed a movie that you didn’t and the vast critical consensus and readers of this website agree with me and not you. That must really chap your ass. I’m surprised that you can stand to be on a site where so many people liked the film, which is clearly an affront to you. I’m such a prick for liking a movie and then defending it. And I guess you chose to ignore the FIRST THING I wrote in that list: People who had LEGITIMATE problems with any number of things in the movie. You need to get into the world of theater. Put all that over-the-top melodrama to some actual good use. You can apply to the prestigious Yale School of Drama here: https://drama.yale.edu
Strange how you posted:
“So there is no set classification of what certain fans liked and didn’t like”
Then list a whole load of classifications….
People who over analyse the reasons for those that simply don’t like a film…..
Honestly the hate towards the fan-boy criticism of the film is as bad and pointless as the criticism in the first place.
People latch onto a few faults to simply have something to moan about. Its not a justification for their actions, but its human nature.
If you had actually read what was being discussed, I was clearly referring to classification of which people like and dislike certain Star Wars films and that you can’t lump them all together. I.e.: all prequel fans hate the sequels, etc.
This was a particular list of varied reasons for not liking the movie based on my own observations. They are singular and unrelated to one another.
You confuse “hate” with rebuttal of criticism. Any debate on the merits of something is going to have opposing points of view that, at times, can be passionate in their criticism and defense.
I like them all. Disney SW has been really good. R1 for me is the best.
It is difficult to grasp who dislikes TLJ but I can only say that it is their own loss.
There are the micro-complainers: gravity bombs which already featured in the almighty ESB. And the macro-complainers who have sited Mark Hamill’s own misgivings. Now Hamill himself has clarified what he really thinks they are in denial.
I do not buy at all that he is just on the island because of his failure with Ben. It is pretty clear that the stronger any side of the force becomes, the stronger the other side must become to keep the balance. Light and dark in equal balance. So the stronger he becomes, the more he rebuilds the Jedi order, the stronger darkness can manifest. Destroying the Jedi order would be a selfless sacrifice to quell darkness, not an act of cowardice as many have claimed.
I actually really dislike the whole balance concept being that clear cut. That makes the Force so uninteresting. I wasn’t one for Lucas’s PT prophecy anyway…
Goes back to the Asian roots of Star Wars.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_and_yang
I love the OT. I love TFA. I love R1. I have a “feeling” I will like Han Solo. I hate TLJ and Prequels.
That’s very interesting to me. I love the prequels or at least Episode III, its probably my second favorite SW film. Would you agree that this movie felt more like the prequels?
I realize I am generalizing a lot here but I wonder if the anti-prequel group can be associated with TLJ disappointment?
For me it did not feel like the prequels.
I think the star wars fandom likes to analyse every scene and every moment. What remains years after a trilogy is constructed is the over-arching story and imagery. I can go back and really enjoy the prequels now. TPM is still a visually stunning movie. Ray Park is amazing. Nevertheless JarJar is persistently there and for me a distraction to my enjoyment.
I think this is the only similarity. If you do not like the rendering of Luke – personally I think it is great – but if you do not like it then it will be in your face everytime you watch the movie.
This is where the movie makers can tell the same story with the same characters but be more gentle and inclusive with the entire audience. Sabre toss for example in my opinion was not necessary.
The sabre toss was unnecessary but gets funnier each time just knowing how many people are butthurt over it
What I do not like about the scene is not so much the toss itself. It is that I can imagine there were many thoughts about what to do with the scene following TFA.
There are so many ways they could have dealt with it that would have kept many fans on board from the start. It is like they chose the most outlandish thing possible to do with it. If you do that then you know it is going to lose some people.
The comedy at the start could also have been toned down and the movie would have had broader appeal.
I mean I liked this movie. But nevertheless when I was watching it the first time I knew the scenes that would provoke criticism.
No. It’s not like you can paint everybody with the same brush based on what they like previously. Everyone has their own unique reaction. I love the OT, hate the PT and I thought The Last Jedi was the best SW film since Empire. You will probably get a million different combinations like that. There are people who love every movie. There are people who hate everything after the OT. There are prequel fans who loathe the sequels. There are people who love the sequels but hated the prequels. There are fans of the sequels that didn’t care for Rogue One. There are people who think the prequels are better than the originals. (!!!) So there is no set classification of what certain fans liked and didn’t like.
Yeah as an example some people didn’t like space Leia and the humor. As someone who didn’t like TLJ… neither of those things bothered me. I actually liked the humor. Go figure.
Great point Crixxxx. I loved the PT (didn’t really like AOTC but really liked the 1&3). Loved the OT, and seriously thought R1 was one of the coolest Star Wars movies I had ever seen. I was lukewarm towards TFA and would say the only movie I would put under TLJ is AOTC.
I really like the universe building aspect of Star Wars, along with the Skywalker legacy. I’m more of a details guy, meaning I like going into the history of why things happened, the backstory of characters, etc. Other fans enjoy different aspects of the story I’m sure. That’s why Star Wars has such a HUGE following, it appeals to many different people in many different ways. That’s also the reason why TLJ has really become such a divisive film I think. Too each their own though, if someone enjoyed this movie, I’m certainly not going to crucify them for it.
Yeah, this pretty much sums it up. Often we all spin our wheels here about what’s “good” and “bad” in “Star Wars,” and it varies person to person. “Episode X is better than Episode Y!” “Are you crazy? Episode Z is obviously better than Episode W!” And so on. But I guess that’s kinda what comment boards are for. To spout our worthless opinions. As long as Lucasfilm and Disney keep making their money, we’ll keep spinning and spinning and spinning….
You love TFA? Wow this is new. Perhaps in time you can change your mind about the TLJ as well.
Damn. You made him burn like a disco inferno….
I’ve always loved TFA.
For someone who LOVES TFA, you sure seemed to show a great number of negativity towards the film, JJ, and Disney over the past two years since it was released. I mean I can very well be mistaken, or if you’ve changed your mind more power to you that’s great! But don’t start saying you loved something just to spite TLJ more than you do already.
I hated the PT. Loved Disney’s take so far… until TLJ. Now I’m more apathetic than I’ve ever been. I want to move away from this trilogy.
I’d seriously rather start Rian’s new trilogy at this point. I have more hope that one wont have nearly the same issues as TLJ. Simply because it’s not beholden to anything.
I’m weirdly looking forward to Solo now if nothing more than to get TLJ out of my mind. I’m a bit depressed about the whole thing and hopefully Solo will drag me out of it. I don’t expect it to feel like Han Solo so much as expect it to be more of a play about Han Solo.
I hope they take the trilogy away from him. He’s just another director hire that Kathleen Kennedy screwed up.
Not that I hate the last jedi, I see its grade as kind of a weak B- or strong C+. But I don’t think it’s good enough for him to even get one new film, let alone three.
I’m just hopeful about the prospect of being free of the saga. I think anyone… well mostly anyone could do a fairly decent job. That and that it wont just keep making up as it goes along. He’ll actually plan out a beginning, middle and an end.
I hope they FIRE Ruin Johnson from his Trilogy. I would be so unbelievable HAPPY to see that.
There’s no way in hell he’s developing anything other than a quiet exit from this franchise.
I hope he stays so we can hear you complain about it for the next decade.
#GLPLEASEREBOOTTHESEQUELS LOL
Wow you’re a real winner; I bet you’re a blast to hang out with.
The way I see it is that each of the movies made by Disney has a different tone. I suspect intentional by design in order to appeal to different parts of the existing fan base and also to grow the fan base.
I think the majority of existing fans will go see IX. Whether you liked TLJ or not, we know JJ is not going to roll out a bad movie and it will probably be the end of the saga. I suspect TLJ will have expanded the fan base despite alienating some. My prediction is that IX will be enormous.
That’s exactly how I feel! Disappointed. I was excited for this new trilogy after TFA but TLJ has left JJ with a near impossible task of making IX into an exciting and interesting conclusion. Also I get the feeling this has been done to bring the saga films to a close. Even though it was hinted that they may, there’s zero chance of episodes X – XII now.
I don’t blame you, man. And in fact, you specifically showcase why the above poster’s who hates TLJ, PT fans, OT fans etc. is facile. It is tribalism. We all like and dislike what we want within SWs for we all have unique perspectives on the franchise.
There is no right or wrong answer. It is just a viewpoint. For me, I liked The Last Jedi, but even i will admit I find it disappointing in the context as a followup to The Force Awakens.
I feel like this kind of a movie, a deconstruction, while well handled would have been better served as an anthology film. The OT I argue its biggest strengths were that it was king Arthur in space mixed with Flash Gordon. It’s the best elements of mythology.
And I feel like LF should have kept those elements. Note that should NOT be conflated with playing it safe, for you could have easily done some middle ground. But really, the anthology films in my view should be the place where the brand should experiment and not just be biopics on characters.
Overall, a part of me shares your sentiment and probably won’t check out Solo or Nine. The latter I’m more mildly curious. But hey; if anyone likes this franchise, cool. I’m happy for you all.
As for me, SWs inspired me to get back into writing and write the stories that I want to see.
“Overall, a part of me shares your sentiment and probably won’t check out Solo or Nine.”
So are you saying you aren’t going to watch any future “Star Wars” movies? Your post was really good, and I was pretty much in agreement with you for most of it. But this statement seemed like a huge left turn and, because I’m stupid, I’m asking for some clarification. “But hey; if anyone likes this franchise, cool.” You’ve typically been one of the biggest cheerleaders here for “Star Wars,” are you throwing in the towel? I don’t quite know what to make of your comments….
Allow me to clarify. I have been a bit burnt out on Star Wars. Specifically, the New Canon which I find is a very mixed bag. Some great stuff, like Bloodline, Thrawn and even Aphra. But really, I just find most of it dull.
Solo, to be honest, I was never interested. I don’t care about Han Solo as a character so even before TLJ; I was going to skip it. The Last Jedi to me felt like the end of the Saga. Luke’s dead, Snoke’s dead and the galaxy is left on a hopeful note. Specifically, with Broom boy(cue disney theme 🙂 ).
And combined with JJ Abrams coming back, and how I wasn’t a fan of TFA or Abrams. And considering how polarizing this movie is, I can see LucasFilm going back to a safer TFA style movie. Which I would not want to see. More middle of the road where it keeps TLJ’s impact, sure. But really, that doesn’t interest me.
I’m not fully giving up on SWs. I will always love it. I just will probably be a more casual fan moving forward and be pickier about the projects. Because, as far as the ST goes; I think it is a really mixed bag. That could change, but hey I am being very honest.
You make good points, some people here will have headaches after reading this.
Hopefully, I don’t give people headaches, but if it is because they cannot wrap their head around the idea of having informed, nuanced views on a franchise, then that is there issue not mine.
For whenever I critique something I try to be as detailed as I can so as people can clearly understand what I am saying. Whether or not they agree, that’s their call. 🙂 I just want to make my voice clear.
I wonder which group of fans didn’t like TLJ. Was it “Stereotype 1”? “Stereotype 2”? “Stereotype 3”? “Stereotype 4” or “Stereotype 5”? The reality is, a significant number of people out there didn’t like the movie and they are not easily categorized.
EXACTLY!
I don’t think there’s any real way to classify it. It’s art, and people’s opinion’s are going to be all over the place – no matter what films came before. Personally, I would probably rank it as the 4th best “Star Wars” film (out of the 9 so far). I’m about to turn 40. Grew up on the OT. Was disappointed by the PT, but I don’t hate it. Sequel Trilogy has it’s strengths and weaknesses. But I love Star Wars, and I’m willing to give all of it at least a chance….
Why does it have to be a particular group?
Why does it have to be a particular group?
It doesn’t have to be and doesn’t seem to be. I was just wondering if a general pattern would emerge.
https://youtu.be/PSqcvmLE0ek
Mr Plinkett’s review will be epic!
Would you say Hamill, subverted your expectations?
I think Disney is in 911-PR MODE right now with the Last Jedi. Mark was probably PRESSURED into that tweet.
Doubt it. Mark is very vocal on Twitter already. He’s pretty honest
Doubt it. Mark is very vocal on Twitter already. He’s pretty honest
Or, just maybe, he knows how shitty fans can be and doesn’t like being used by them in being so.
Let’s not forget he also has voiced his anger about the way some felt about the prequels and the people who worked on them. He just comes off as being a self-aware fan and a more honest man more than anything else.
Well Mark has always been very outspoken about Luke. He never lied about how he felt about Luke and I think that he is more honest about his role in SW because he is more passionate about it than let’s say Ford or Fisher. I don’t know why people constantly ignore Mark’s negative feedback saying “oh I’m sure he didn’t mean it” but at the same time they will happily jump on every postiitve statement Mark makes about TLJ. Actors are expected to only speak positively about their movies and in Disney’s case there are many contractual obligations concerning PR. The fact that Mark voices his concern despite these strict reglementations imply that the only reason he is holding back is his love for the fans and that he doesn’t want to risk losing his bonuses.
But I don’t ignore Hamill’s negative statements. He said he disagreed and has since regretted saying it in public. It doesn’t remove his original statement and however honest it may have been. Hamill also apparently wanted Luke to be more radically dark in ‘Return of the Jedi’ and may so not have agreed with what he got. It still detracts nothing from his opinion or the merits of going the way Lucas went with the character.
In this case, it can be pure PR or otherwise, but until he publishes his memoir (now there’s a bestseller in the making) and admits otherwise, I will accept whatever he states as his personal opinion. To be so cynical about that much at this stage, when Hamill is so vocal about the franchise and everything else, betrays confirmation bias, but not much else.
He regretted saying the “I fundamentally disagree with every choice…” statement only to repeat his concerns mere days after the premiere. He still hasn’t accepted the new Luke so he now suddenly made up his mind? Again? Yeah seems reasonable.
I’m not saying that he accepts the ‘new’ Luke (he isn’t new in the first place anyway) or that in his heart of hearts, he can ever fully agree with the choices made in his regard. What has probably changed since the premier is that he got wind of how some fans like yourself keep latching onto those words of his to bash a film despite the fact that they say nothing of the quality of said film itself. That’s where his “regret” probably comes from, because he knows how shitty and irrational fans can be when they don’t like something and has commented about it before.
^^^^^Most predictable comment of 2017.
Does it really seem that outlandish that a controlfreak like KK pressured Hamill into a demento? We have seen Mark voice his negative oppinion about the treatment of Luke time and time again. Bad statement followed by a demento, rinse and repeat. Does that look like someone who’s truly happy with the way Luke was portrayed in TLJ or more like Disney putting pressure on Mark? I’m not saying they hold him at gunpoint but to think that KK doesn’t take issue with Hamill’s negative statements is ridiculous.
If his character was alive at the end of TLJ he’d have been in a much better position, but as it stands his only chance of being in the next one is as a ghost.
I think despite everything Mark is loving being back in the limelight I’m sure he doesn’t want it to stop.
according to some…(you know who you are,lol) the ghost are irrelevant and can’t really help in any way.
But I have a feeling that Luke will be THE ghost with all the answers in 9.
“The Ghost with the Most Baby”
So Luke’s going to be Beetlejuice?
it’s all possible, with singing and dancing too!
The ghost with the most!
“Time and time again”? How many interviews are we talking about? Is this the same Mark Hamill who wanted Luke to fall to the dark side?
He’s the flaw in your reasoning. How long did it take Kathleen Kennedy to real him in? Why didn’t she attempt to gag him, I dunno right after he made the first statement?
I strongly recommend you to look up the statements Hamill has made concerning the portrayal of Luke during production. He “fundamentally disagreed with all of Rian’s choices” already early in production and even after the premier of TLJ he said how he had to think of Luke Skywalker as Jake Skywalker because it wasn’t his Luke anymore. Doesn’t get much clearer than that. KK migth not have choked him but she is a great fan of “creative differences” burning through 8 directors in 4 movies so don’t tell me she’s an innocent angel. Do you really think he disliked the movie, then liked it again, then disliked it again after the premiere, then loved it again. Or maybe, just maybe he is pressured into correcting any statement that casts a slur on TLJ resulting in a back and forth of contradictory statements.
Because the film wasn’t getting any negative feedback initially. Now that it is, they won’t to plug that hole.
And nothing wrong with him wanting Luke to go Dark back then. Nothing to do with how he feels about this new doppelganger Luke.
Disney could have gagged him at any time and didn’t, you’re not giving them enough credit for respecting the old heroes.
haha no they aren’t. He probably did feel bad to see his comments blow up like they did bc entitled fanbabies didn’t get their Dragonball Z Luke moment
haha no they aren’t. He probably did feel bad to see his comments blow up like they did bc entitled fanbabies didn’t get their Dragonball Z Luke moment
Of course he was. They cannot stand any negative comments about their new SW.
Of course he was. They cannot stand any negative comments about their new SW.
Or maybe Mark Hamill, a decent guy, realized that his comments were being taken drastically out of context by angry haters of the movie and being used as a bludgeon against Rian Johnson, a guy he respects, as an endorsement of hate against the film, and realized he needed to set the record straight from any more dishonest manipulation of his views.
Maybe a mixture of both…I’m sure he got a little pressure from someone and he probably did feel bad as well.
Ding ding ding!
I don’t know….maybe. I think Rian Johnson is more than capable of defending himself without any statements from Hamill. Never underestimate the invisible hand of the Hollywood machine. Just like in politics – if there’s huge money at stake, there will always be shadowy figures trying to manipulate things in their favor…
Us “little people” don’t live in the same world they do.
It’s crazy how much bad feeling towards TLJ there is. I’ve seen it 4 times and each time I like it more. There are some stupid bits, like “that door is the only way in or out” and then there are loads of trenches, and as with every SW film, a huge pinch of salt is required. Luke’s arc was interesting, and it was good to see Yoda pop up. Not sure how they can finish this during Ep9, the First Order can’t fail unless Ben goes good, and there’s like 6 people in the Rebellion, but I’m sure 9 can redeem many parts people didn’t like. I loved the comedy. Domnhall Gleeson and Adam Driver were brilliant. The scene with the wheelbarrow was hilarious, I still chuckle thinking about it. My order is: 5,4,RO,3,8,6,7,2,1 for what it’s worth.
Dang, that puts the scene of the trooper actually tasting salt in TLJ in a whole different perspective.
The film talks about creating and living up to a legend. Now Luke’s gone and tales of his last stand will be told throughout the galaxy. As with any legends that spread by word of mouth, some accounts may exaggerate things, so you have to take those stories with a pinch of salt. Great metaphor.
Whatever spin Disney is putting on this, TLJ is a failure. Even if many people liked or even loved it, it alienated many diehard and even casual fans, primarily for what Johnson did to Luke. Yes, the movie made money, but public companies don’t just have to turn a profit. They have to meet profit projections. And on that count TLJ is a commercial disaster:
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?view=daily&id=roguevforce.htm
TFA made almost twice as much as TLJ on Christmas and Boxing Day. And as of Wednesday, TLJ made a whopping 30% less than the TFA over the same number of days. Even if TLJ followed the same trajectory as TFA and Rogue One (which it doesn’t – it’s falling faster), TLJ would be making $500 million or 25% less than TFA. But it’s more likely that we are talking $600-$700 million less.
Expect heads to roll.
No it wasnt a failure. TFA was a perfect storm that will never happen again. Bank rolls, not heads, TLJ making a billion plus. This film just exposed “fans” I fell inlove with Star Wars through prequels, and was introduced and floored by the OT afterward nd loved it. I dont have this obsessive nostalgia mindset.
I always said F### goody goody Luke and always saw him as my least favorite character, but TLJ made Luke Skywalker my all time favorite character, it was full circle. Let nostalgia die, kill it if you have to.
PS Cad Bane is the most badass Bounty Hunter in Star Wars , just sayin.
I don’t know what you do for work, but I know of no profession or industry where risk taking is rewarded, unless it leads to better-than-expected results. A 25-30% drop in revenue is a disaster in the real world, esp. for a product that was hyped as an improvement over its immediate predecessor.
I thought that the movie was bad for purely technical reasons: It felt more like a miniseries than like a feature film, because of a plethora of subplots and a bloated cast that didn’t contribute to the main storyline. Rey turned from a wonderful character into a bloodless Marie Sue. Luke Skywalker didn’t feel like a broken hero, but like a manic-depressive old clown trying to get the kids of his lawn. Neither Snoke nor Kylo Ren were menacing or scary. Hux transformed into a grimacing Nazi buffoon. And the slapstick undermined all drama of the Resistance fighting for its life.
I’m sure a seasoned blockbuster director could have turned the same basic story into a roaring success. But Johnson was simply out of his league.
It was never expectd to surpass TFA. I dont think ANY film ever will in box office opening weekend or second week. Nothing will beat the “Star Wars is back” hype as TFA did.. I like to think we all knew that. Yo’re being unrealistic if you thought episode 8 or 9 would make more bank than Episode 7. Please, IMO no film ever will generate that kind of hype again.
As I said, it’s one thing to expect 10-15% less (as on the opening weekend). It’s another to get 25-35% less, which I believe to be realistic.
TLJ would have to achieve stronger weekly growth than TFA in the next few weeks to even reach the $1.5 billion mark. I expect it to make less than $1.2 billion globally, or only – yes only – $200 million more than Rogue One.
That would mean that TLJ would have performed worse relative to TFA than Attack of the Clones relative to Phantom Menace.
We’ll know in a couple of weeks.
And no, profit is not good enough. If you invest in a company like Apple or in a franchise like SW, you will make money. Here, the bet is how much you will make. And Disney is a business, nothing more.
Many people don’t understand economics and the expectations of shareholders. My father in law works for the European equivalent of Amazon as a “risk manager/chief risk officer” (I don’t know the correct translation). Over the last 2 years he managed to decrease payment default by about 8% but was denied a bonus because he had estimated his department could lower it by 10%. While saving the the company millions he didn’t meet expectations and as such it was considered a “failure”.
We already had a “Star Wars is back” scenario when TPM was released. TFA was much more succesful because not only was it a “SW is back” situation but also a very good movie. I think Nuclear Pen Knife has a point since TLJ had comparable ticketsales in presales and the first few days after its release but then rapidly dropped once word got out it wasn’t what 50% of the fans had hoped for. The incredibly fast decline in interest is what makes TLJ a financial failure resulting in a larger decline of BO than the majority of analysts predicted before its realease. It’s not enough for a SW movie to do well considered the immense power of this IP. It must meet expectations and anything below expectations will be seen as a financial failure.
How did Yoda reacted to Anakin’s darkness? Sendind Obiwan to kill him.
What did Yoda (master of masters) do? Hiding in a swamp planet in retirement.
Was Yoda hopeful about Luke? No. He didn’t want to train him and only ObiWan convinced him.
How did Yoda die? After a great epic finale combat againt Sidious…. Oh wait… No… He actually died in his bed, as an old man (although he had always been old for us and he fought Sidious quite strongly in III).
Luke is not timeless, and fortunately characters evolve as real people.
Did you read my post? The movie did not please audiences as much as TFA. TLJ took risks – and was, in my mind, poorly executed (see below) – and that didn’t pay off. For Disney, that’s all that matters.
Disney may have expected to make 10-15% less on the TLJ than on TFA but not 25-35% less. That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised if the days of Kathleen Kennedy are numbered and Johnson’s trilogy won’t happen. That’s all.
good point. At the very least it will have them think about how to handle things moving forward.
Saving this comment.
Dude. Disney is banking so hard rn on other properties that I bet they don’t even give a shit.
Literally every second movie in a Star Wars trilogy makes 30% less than the first, both Empire and Clones. If you expected TLJ to be different you’re ignorant, frankly.
Luke isn’t a real person, he is a larger than life fictional character.
And those other examples are irrelevant because when those events occured, we didn’t have the same attachment to them. It’s not like for like.
Therefore what was the alternative? Making Luke a Marie Sue? Wasn’t that the problem with The Force Awakens? I’m lost.
Characters are conflict.
Luke was never a Mary Sue…he did have training. Rey did not. Big difference…now 3 lessons from Luke and she’s a lightsaber wizard, can use the force to raise an entire avalanche of rocks???
This whole “Mary Sue” thing is getting out of hand, pretty much any fictional hero character could be described as such.
We are dealing with a fictional universe where people can lift things with their minds, a dose of reality helps to ground us but if it’s too real world it becomes mundane. We don’t aspire to be Luke because he’s a fallible character we do so because he is something bigger than that.
He is, as Lucas set out to make him, an heroic archetype.
You are right, he is not timeless. But he was guided by Yoda, Obi-Wan and a new ghost in Anakin. To insure the mistakes of the past did not happen, they would have given him advice on how to rebuild the Jedi order and deal with the darkness in Ben Solo.
If intent on killing Luke off, they certainly could have done better for the fans and Luke’s legendary character. If it wasn’t an issue, then all of the discussions that are taking place now would not be happening.
Mark was spot on early about the miss with Rian’s assessment of Luke and the Jedi. He is certainly be made to walk those comments back now, after such a push back from fans of how Luke was handled.
I wouldn’t listen to anything Anakin had to say haha
Yeah, for sure…except how to kill Yuenglings! lol https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c512c85ac1e075c2b1025f66c8912c8ccdea72e81c2bf0a7a0bede68bf03c98e.png
hahaha
lol
“Works every time…..”
Lmaoooo
They didn’t kill Luke off, he became one with the force and more powerful than ever, he also found purpose and finally peace.
is yoda, Obi wan, Anakin dead? Of course he is dead, he’ll be back as a force ghost. Weak, weak ending for the legendary Luke!
“If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.” – Obi Wan Kenobi
TFA was arguably the first decent SW movie in 32 years. Riding on the tails of nostalgia, back after a 10 year break.
The Last Jedi could end up doing around £1.5bn at the global office.
“Expect heads to roll.”
Yeah, if you’re a fucking moron.
$1.5 billion is still 25% less than the TFA. That’s bad, because investors expected more. And I doubt that this will be the final tally, never mind in pounds.
Nobody expected The Last Jedi to repeat the success of The Force Awakens, for reasons I previously stated. The Force Awakens is the 3rd biggest movie of all time, only one of 3 members of the $2bn global box office club.
But yeah, if The Last Jedi ends up doing around $1.5bn, in the top 10 movies of all time = box office failure.
I find this a ridiculous belief.
Believe what you like. I just hope you don’t do your own investing 😉
Not meeting expectations and “failure” mean different things to investors. Either way not ideal.
Noone expected it to do as well as TFA but they expected it to do better. Maybe we won’t see any heads rolling but to call TLJ a success in terms of financial expectations is ridiculous. I can remember a forbes article written only a couple of days before TLJ was released and it estimated a BO of $1,6bn in a worst case scenario and TLJ will probably not even make this much.
Disney expectations?
No one with a brain expected this to beat TFA.
Failure? No. Nothing can ever beat TFA. That was a once in a lifetime event. It’s a success by any measure.
Poor Mark Hamill, bullied by Disney’s legal team to retract the way he truly feels. Free speech is dead in Disneyland …
They could have gagged him at any time and removed him from the press junkit…give them a little credit
That would not have served them well…I would bet a paycheck after the blow back, they met with him and told him exactly what he needed to do.
No argument with that. I’m sure KK said “I let you be Mark, now you fix this…”
No argument with that. I’m sure KK said “I let you be Mark, now you fix this…”
What leads you to think he’s still getting a paycheck from Disney? I would imagine he’s already been paid.
Based on how many actors are paid. I’m sure he gets some up front, some on back end and residual.
Which is why I think It’s just as likely his agent or accountant are also saying Dude, fix this
Oh yes? I would have liked to see exactly how that would have gone down.
“The Gagged Jedi”
I mean, I’m trying to picture the absolute shitstorm PR disaster that happens if you pull Luke fucking Skywalker off your Last Jedi press junket halfway through. Nobody is that stupid.
I get you. It’s a good point. I was just making a stupid joke – as most of mine tend to be…
What a moronic comment to make.
Why is it moronic?
Zero proof he was “bullied” or even spoken too. Hamill is a great dude and he would speak out against this on his own volition to protect his director, even if he initially disagreed.
“Free speech is dead at Disney” is such a silly thing to say.
The things you can say as an employee are limited sometimes and that doesn’t mean you don’t have free speech.
And ALL the things he has said in the months before PROVE that isn’t true.
So…moronic.
You are right, as an employee…he can only say certain things.
And you are correct. Zero proof. However based on his comments it seems strange to walk them back once back lash began. Maybe a coincidence. maybe…
I would assume (big assumptions), that he would be free to openly share his opinions.
So the free speech comments are not moronic. Maybe bad assumptions based on contracts we don’t know about. but not moronic.
I think he probably didn’t intend them to be taken as ammo to have the movie removed from history haha. That doesn’t seem strange to me.
They are moronic.
He has been openly sharing his opinions for months. Baseless, moronic speculation.
lol
ah man, c’mon….
Deadly, I both agree and disagree with you.
“Speculation” – yes, absolutely. You are right.
“Moronic” – no, I wouldn’t go that far. And that’s borderline trolling.
Deadly, I both agree and disagree with you.
“Speculation” – yes, absolutely. You are right.
“Moronic” – no, I wouldn’t go that far. And that’s borderline trolling.
And with Hamill’s latest comments…I turned out to be right.
He’s correcting his comments which have been drastically taken out of context in a wholly dishonest fashion to attack the movie and Rian Johnson. No one is forbidding free speech. But when people grossly twist your speech to fit their agenda, you feel the need to set the record straight.
“I fundamentally disagree with everything you think about Luke…” or something like that. “Remember, these movies are now being made by Children.”
He said this and then said it’s not his character anymore.
It’s pretty clear what he meant. And it was no surprise to me that when I finally seen TLJ that I felt R.J. did screw Luke character up and then killed him off. Luke being flawed was fine. Luke being an epic failure whose to blame for bringing about the undoing of peace and then cowardly escaping away to himself die in peace, we’ll yea.
And Rian J. didn’t just screw up Luke’s story, they made Rey into the most unbelievable character. One way overpowered for so little training.
They basically crapped all over Luke, made Rey damn near infallible. And reset the fight between Empire and Rebels, along with a New New Hope.
Rey was interesting after 7. She is wholly uninteresting after 8.
https://youtu.be/PSqcvmLE0ek#t=33m33s
Did TLJ… subvert your expectations?
When The Force Awakens came out:
1 – “it’s a damn remake!”
2 – Filled with non-sense and plot holes.
3 – “Kylo is a weak baddy”
4 – Luke just for some seconds??
5 – Another death star??
6 – Snoke is a pointless CG character.
7 – No original planet, all of them carbon copy of the OT.
8 – “Rey is a Mary Sue”
9 – I’m fine with women, but they’re just too much in TFA…. clearly Disney has a political agenda.
10 – I’m fine with asians, black people… but seriously why these films all of are starred by blacks, hispanos, asians? A Black stormtrooper??? Disney political agenda…
All statements from 1 to 7 have been reverted in The Last Jedi (still waiting for a list of plot-holes in VIII). 7th statement: Rey is still a Mary Sue, but you want to kill Johnson because Luke is not a Mary Sue in this movie (Luke’s elder version is not much different as Obi or Yoda 2 beloved characters in the franchise). 8 and 9: more women in this film. One of them being asian.
What is the real problem with this film?
I’ve come to accept now that star wars fans (fanatics) are going to moan no matter what.
or moan when things don’t make any sense what so ever.
Fanatics is the wrong word. The fanatics are the ones who love TLJ. ALT-FAN is the phrase you’re looking for….
That’s a little disrespectful. I’m a fan just as much as you. I’ve been a fan since I was 7 years old when ANH came out. I loved the OT films, I loved TFA and R1. However I won’t blindly fawn over a film if I have problems with it. I didn’t hate TLJ I just found it disappointing.
Fair enough. It’s also a little disrespectful when fans that didn’t like the movie call those that did like it stupid or not intelligent enough to see why it was a bad movie or, ‘how could you like that and mess?’ To each their own! I thought it was fantastic and a perfect homage to Star Wars.
No problem and I certainly wouldn’t call anyone an idiot or unintelligent for loving TLJ. As you say each to their own.
You’re the only one on these threads I’ve seen doing the very thing you’re now complaining about. Your love for TLJ doesn’t make you stupid or unintelligent. It’s the fact you’re on here bad mouthing fans who don’t like it while attempting to elivate yourself as enlightened that makes you sound stupid and unintelligent. I’ve seen you try this crap multiple times now, but you want to whine when called on it. Take your meds and sit down!
You really think you’re a special Starwars fan because you swallow! Well got feel specially for doing something.
How is Rey not a Mary Sue? When Luke left Yoda to confront Vader he lost his hand. Rey on the other hand successfully helped killing the bad guy. She levitates a complete landslide of rocks, worth adozen x-wings in weight with ease. All this after a couple of days of sleeping in front of Luke’s hut an an introductory course into the secrets of the force. She defeats Luke in a duel but at the same time she does not overstep the boundary of disrespecting or straight up hurting her master. If she had injured Luke in that duel things would have looked differently. But after TLJ there’s still no bad character trait, no arrogance, no selfishness, no fear, no anger. She is shown to be at least equal in power to Kylo Ren, breaking the lightsaber in half but winning both parts of the saber in the end. Kylo is unconscious after the fight but not Rey, she proceeds to steal Snoke’s ship and continues to save the day on Crait. She is also wise enough to save the Jedi texts before Luke/Yoda burn down the force tree.
Whenever Rey seems to do something wrong, something that would make her character interesting it is ultimately without consequence. We are told that she didn’t even try to resist the dark side when meditating but what is the consequence of her lack of resistance? Nothing. There’s never a bad outcome for Rey, there is never a moment when we fear she might turn to the dark. It is not surprising she refuses Kylo’s offer to join her, after all she has already done this in VII. In TFA and TLJ we never see her make a mistake that can’t be undone or makes us fear for her life. What’s next for IX? Two times we have seen her fight with/against Kylo. Both times she came out on top leaving an unconscious/defeated Kylo behind. How are we supposed to be looking forward to the final confrontation between Kylo and Rey in IX. If he defeats her then evil will win. Not a good ending to the trilogy. If she can turn him or defeat him in battle it will be a 3:0 for Rey.
I’ve been constantly defending her after TFA when someone called her a Mary Sue. “She isn’t a Mary Sue”, I said. We don’t know her backstory. Maybe she was trained from an early age but her memory was wiped. Maybe she was a forcebirth, a daughter of Kenobi, an experiment of Plagueis. Maybe she had access to a Jedi holocron, maybe the force priestesses showed up in her dreams and guided her, maybe she grew up in the midst of a nexus of the force on Jakku. But after TLJ we know she is just a nobody who is portrayed like a somebody. She has the background of other nobodies like Kanan Jarrus or Ahsoka Tano but she doesn’t share their struggles. Rey is so much better than all of them because she is a Mary Sue. And no Daisy Ridley this is not meant to be sexist. Just beacuse you are not aware of it there is a male version of this term. It’s Gary Stu, I know this even though English is not my first language. Sometimes you can’t just explain bland writing away by calling it sexism.
Very well said! Agree with you 100%. Rey was my favourite character in TFA but TLJ has completely ruined her story and left JJ in an impossible position for IX
Hallelujah, brother – you were bah-lind, but ah-now can-a SEE!!! PRAISE JEBUS!!!!
Ameeeen!
1- why the star destroyers dont jump to lightspeed to one point and comeback in front of the fleet?
2- why they need fuel in vacuum?
3-how leia survives in vaccum?
4- if its posible to use hyperspace as a weapon why they dont kamikaze some fighters into the star destroyers?
5- why the fuck Luke abandons his sister and his best friend and the galaxy if he created kylo ren?
7- why the first order is so powerful and the resistance is a bunch of terrorists on the run if the empire was terminated 30 years ago?
8-why rey is still a mary sue without any training in the force?… she said it was to lift rocks even she was able to pull a saber of the ground without even knowing what the force is…
9-what the hell was doing benicio del toro in that prison? ok we go to jail and voila we find a guy who can penetrate the first order defenses without breaking a sweat..
10- why the hell kylo ren didnt realize that luke is still younger and has the same lightsaber he just broke onboard the supremacy?
and the list goes on…
1. Jumping to Hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops, kid. You can’t just jump all willly nilly. You need the proper navigational charts to coordinate with a navi-computer.
2. There is sound, so there is drag. (A reaction to shield generation if you need a more spacey reason.)
3. Losing 1 atmosphere to vacuum is survivable for a few seconds, painful & damaging? Yes, but Leia is strong with the Force & maybe even within the Raddus’ shield bubble. Plus it took a lot of space medicine before she was back on her feet.
4. Mass matters as much as speed.
5. Depression.
6. I don’t see 6, so you must have figured it out.
7. A lot of money and financing plus the infrastructure of the Unknown Regions. The Resistance is a rogue operation outside of official Republic channels; and the Republic leadership and fleet, which could have been convinced to support the Resistance was destroyed by the Starkiller weapon.
8. Rey is not a Mary Sue, she lived a hard life on Jakku and naturally touched the Force all the time. As her Force awareness Awakened psychologically and spiritually, especially after the Forceback vision she experienced after touching the Skywalker saber, she realized both consciously and subconsciously that the Force could be commanded to her will. She earned her supernatural abilities. Plus she still does things wrong and experiences failures. A Mary Sue would have saved Han Solo.
9. A Canto Bight jail seems like a safe place for DJ. He’s an enigmatic colorful character in a weird universe. Plus it feels like a slight Otis Campbell of Mayberry homage or even something Shakespearean.
10. Ben Solo is emotionally reactive. It was a brilliant chess move on Luke’s part. We’re talking a legendary master monk versus some angry spoiled guy who trained in a dojo a lot.
Best rebuttal to the Alt-Fan’s hate so far! Awesome!
Oh people like you would question someone fanship because they don’t fall in line. Look up the word fallacy.
1. Really! In that case how was Admiral Holdo able to do it almost straight away?
2. What!! There is no sound or drag in space. The only reason we have sound in Star Wars is because it would be a bit odd watching space battles with no sound.
3. Leia was in a vacuum for more than a few seconds. The raddus shields don’t hold an atmosphere. They only stop energy weapons. Also she’s had zero training.
4. Agree with you on this.
5. Seriously! If Luke’s a master jedi as you say in your last point then I don’t think depression really cuts it and is pretty pathetic for a jedi, master or not!
6. Snoke is an even more pointless character now he’s dead.
7. Agree with you on this.
8. Rey wasn’t a Mary Sue in TFA but she’s certainly looking more like it after TLJ. Even Anakin, who was created by the force, had a hell of a lot of training before he became a powerful Jedi. Luke also had a lot of training. Reys had none whatsoever and she’s already as good as they were in the OT & PT.
9. Agree with you on this.
10. Yes Kylo is emotional and an angry spoiled guy as you say which makes him a pretty poor supreme leader going forward. Even taking that into account he still should have spotted Luke was young and he was holding a lightsaber he himself had only just destroyed for heaven sake!!
1- they can track through hyperspace but not make a jump to a place and return in front of them ? ok
2- theres no drag in space,sound is for entertaining purposes … why the shot of the supremacy blowing up is in complete silence? VACUUM DUDE
3- Really? survivable for 2 or 3 seconds with luck
4-they can use the ships with less fuel and problem solved goodbye to the F.O fleet
5- horrible writing to make it look broken so he can stand up one more time
7-why the hell was the back up they were expecting from the outer rims?
8-rey is a mary sue indeed, i you dont see it fine…
9- a cheap plot device from RJ to speed things up in a part of the movie that doesnt add anything to the movie and is long a f*ck
10- brillant? i guess you missed the point… why he didnt realize he is even dressed like the last time he saw him and why he has the same saber he destroyed minutes before?why he didnt age a single day?
No, being shot into space would instantly kill you. And being blowout after losing cabin pressure would kill you. And if you just happened to spend a few minutes you’d be dead.
Asfor Kylo Ren not seeing Luke wasn’t real, whatever. If that was the worst of it, then it wouldn’t be so bad. The fact Astral projection is too tough to pull off without dying, but Leia can survive any number of things that would have killed her before deciding to use the force to pull herself in, Yea that’s silly.
It’s silly the Republican chose to stand still when another empire was rising up. Because bad father and bad uncle were too busy being legends to realize history was about to repeat itself—with slight tweaks of course.
The funny thing is, in A New Hope, Kenobi (the most wanted man in the galaxy) goes around Tatooine wearing his jedi robes and not changing his last name. A major plot hole. Does that make it a bad movie?
The truth is, all of Star Wars is full of plot holes. If ppl dislike TLJ, fine– but don’t prentend uou care about “plot holes.”
He does not. He goes around Tatooine wearing the same shit every other farmer and desert rat does. Only when we get to the PT does that uniform become “Jedi robes’.
No, Anakin is wearing jedi robes as a ghost in ROTJ, including the original actor before Hayden was CG’d in. And he still uses the name Kenobi even though he’s one of the most wanted men in the galaxy. “Plot hole.”
No, Anakin is wearing jedi robes as a ghost in ROTJ, including the original actor before Hayden was CG’d in. And he still uses the name Kenobi even though he’s one of the most wanted men in the galaxy. “Plot hole.”
7 – Hang on, they’re operating ‘outside of official Republic channels’? So…so there ARE still official Republic channels….but the Republic won’t be actually doing anything to counter the First Order, you know, those guys that have been around for years, are apparently crazy well-equipped and financed and just built a planet-sized superweapon thanks? Because literally ALL of their fleet was above one planet that was destroyed? Meaning at their height, the New Republic had fewer ships than the damn Resisties? That’s just…retarded. It was fucking retarded in TFA, and it continues to be fucking retarded if that’s still the scenario in this movie.
.
8 – prove it. Show me one, just ONE place TFA says that. You’re just making shit up now to excuse the piss-poor writing of Rey in TFA.
A plot hole is, for instance, when Finn in TFA is clearly given a weapon in the Falcon, and then from one scene to another it just vanishes and tells to Maz “I don’t have a weapon!”.
1 – A wish, not a plot hole.
2 – Fuel to power starships is not an invention of The Last Jedi, it exists in Star Wars lore way before. It’s the kind of “sound in vacuum” thing. You may ask George about that.
3 – Rian Johnson explained this moment: https://www.cinemablend.com/news/1746809/rian-johnson-explains-that-leia-scene-everyone-is-talking-about
4 – A wish, not a plot hole.
5 – Cause he feels he won’t be able to fix the problem. It’s the story of the old veteran who gives up but gets enlightened by a younger warrior. It’s a classic. Just a recent example: Gran Torino.
7- Because the New Republic wasn’t seeing the First Order as a menace, and Leia took a bunch of radicals to fight it. This was explained by the time of Force Awakens. Then of course they blow-up the New Republic with Starkiller base and there’s no organized army to face the FO. The Last Jedi begins right away after TFA, and the FO blows up the base of the Resistance.
8 – Still one episode left to explain that.
9 – Completely agree on this one. A shameless Deux-ex-Machina. Didn’t like it at all. To do that, better they found the guy they were looking for, not just a random guy in the same cell who actually had the knowledge to do such precise thing. Lame.
10 – Never happened to you that you see someone 10 years after and say “you haven’t changed a bit!”. Bah… The saber… he could have built a new one.
I forgot you can’t see the plot holes you not even paying attention. The real problem has been stated so many times, you just ignore when it’s laid out and act as if no one told you.
Let’s start with it’s another remake: small group of rebels, charged with defeating white armored storm troopers holding up the empire. The rebels only hope is a untrained Jedi from a sandy planet.
That story was told in 1977. But hey, maybe the New New Hope can do better than the old New Hope. Luke, Jedi Master, collects books for 3 decades, but reads them not.
What about the plot holes in the OT or prequels? What about the plot holes in EVERY SINGLE MOVIE EVER MADE? If I didn’t watch or read something due to plot holes, I would have a very boring life…
I guess I could take up complaining for a hobby…
Where are the plot holes of The Last Jedi? I can’t see them.
I’m way more interested in the conversation that led to HIgh Times poster-boy Woody Harrelson putting the brakes on smoking weed during his contract with Disney.
That’s some serious black magic.
Good article, but all I could think is “Oh, great here goes the conspiracy theorist, Disney haters (many of who were most likely Lucas haters post prequels), the ‘that’s it I hate Star Wars and will burn all my action figures because they did something different than what I spent 2 years speculating on fan blogs’, and ‘aspiring film makers’ that think they know more about film making than those that do it for a living.” Thank all that is holy, I wasn’t wrong…
They did something different? Oh yea, Snoke died. That changes everything.
Did I say anything about “changes”? I was commenting on the really over the top commenters. Many of which never seem to grasp what someone else has written. For example, your post. You really didn’t read what I wrote.
BTW…can’t find you on IMDB…
OMG. Another positive TLJ tweet from Mark Hamill.
Kathleen Kennedy must have been screaming death threats down the phone at him.
#Prayformark
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/452fe3763f7b6265eeb8ddec1c49fc70b2ffc6ebf196aec87afc084ab7985986.png
The guilt is strong with this one
Right. Mark should keep feeding the haters with comments that they can continue to take out of context to fit their narrative.
He was speaking his mind. He had genuine concerns whether right or wrong.
Those opinions align with a percentage of the fanbase.
I personally haven’t seen anything taken out of context but then I mostly hang around here.
“I can feel the hate building in you” said the REAL Luke Skywalker to Kathleen Kennedy. Poor Mark Hamill. His facial expressions when drinking green milk reminds me of the “$20 is $20” tshirt people laugh at!
Nah. I imagine Kennedy had Hammil deep into a Force choke and simply suggested that she finds his lack of guilt … disturbing.
Nah. I imagine Kennedy had Hammil deep into a Force choke and simply suggested that she finds his lack of guilt … disturbing.
On the subject of Luke, I’m actually ok with the direction they went. I would of gone a different route, but the line they choose works. If I have one niggle, and its a small one, I didn’t understand why he had his father’s lightsaber on Crait unless it was to give us another throwback to the OT. I realise as a projection he could choose any lightsaber, but what could be the justification to use that one instead of the green saber from RotJ.
Because Kylo knows that Rey has returned the sabre to Luke.
makes no sense, since he just force fought Rey for it and it blew up….
Right! It just shows how Dumb Kylo is.
It shows how Kylo is so obsessed that he becomes unbalanced.
Other possibilities:
– the green sabre was destroyed and this is the actual color he has now.
– the entire image is a pure form of Luke – how he sees himself and how the force sees him. This includes the sabre.
It might be the colour he has now, but the lightsaber itself is his father’s, no doubt about it. I quite like that second option though.
Luke does not know that. And maybe Kylo is so angry he fails to notice this.
True enough and possible.
Maybe it was simply another hint to the audience that Luke wasn’t really there…like being better groomed and not leaving any footprints
True – but though a powerful Jedi Master, would he really be able to fix the lightsaber so quickly?
I just come to these comments sections to read the arguments. Ya’ll are funny.
Good trooper Mark, being the Jedi hero he should have stayed in the movies.
I wonder why Luke Skywalker having decided the Jedi were a bunch of failures was wearing his Master Jedi outfit when Rey showed up.
Anyways, I don’t get that peopleare mad Luke had a moment of weakness. It’s the his actions supposedly undid all his work, even beating the empire the first time.
1. Small band of rebels charged with defeating an empire full of white armored storm troopers. There only weapon a scantly trained Jedi from a sandy planet. A new hope! Trained by a Jedi who disappears into the force. The force behind the darkness, a fallen Jedi with special blood.
Which is this, the OT or the ST?
Luke, Han, and Leia have been demoted to cautionary tails.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Luke to have a moment of weakness that ultimately is partly responsible for the creation of Kylo Ren, but to PERMANENTLY retreat to Ach-to for this mistake is just not working in my brain. I don’t see why Luke would be humbled and then fall back to his strategy that he did with his Father and track down Kylo and use love and compassion to save him. But instead, he just goes off on island to die, just seems like all that time to himself that he would have found a better way…
Know anyone that has hit rock bottom over some personal problem? It’s not pretty.
It’s totally realistic in that context that a kick in the ass by Rey and Yoda would get him back on the rails
“I wonder why Luke Skywalker having decided the Jedi were a bunch of failures was wearing his Master Jedi outfit when Rey showed up.”
Jedi don’t have cloaks trademarked, I believe.
How big a suitcase can u fit in an X-Wing?
How big a suitcase can u fit in an X-Wing?
Why was Owen Lars wearing a jedi outfit? Or Luke a jedi tunic? Why was Ben Kenobi wearing a jedi outfit when he was supposed to be in hiding? Were the jawas also jedi?
Becuase the outfit you see in the OT was never supposed to be a “jedi outfit”.
It’s a major fuckup on the PT’s side…
I also love the arguments made against the physics of space in TLJ scenes (hyperspace jump and Leia in space). Many are complaining about the lack of sound for the hyperspace/ship crash. Leia surviving a few seconds in space is really tripping up some. Where at JPL do these commenters work? Sound doesn’t travel in a vacuum. NASA has stated that someone could be exposed to space for around 15 seconds and have no ill effects.
It just makes me want to yell, “It’s just a movie, not a documentary!”
Apparently this is the first SW movie in 40 years that needs to conform to real world science. Just like it’s the first SW movie to include any form of humor in it.
It’s clearly piling on.
A few seconds my arse. And she was blown outba suddenly decompressionized bridge and violently yanked into space. There she floated for a few minutes, no air, all the elements of space, and then woke up and force pulled herself to safety. Then was walking around 20 minutes later.
And Darth Vader burned to death but then actually didn’t. We call that plot armor. All protagonists have that.
This giant misstep by Disney annihilates all interest in next installment, in comics, books, Rebels… Everything of value or worthy of being explored (Luke, Snoke, ancient Jedi tomes, Phasma, Rey parents…) has been destroyed. What the hell were Johnson and Kennedy thinking?!
AGREED 100%. Ruin Johnson is a franchise KILLER.
Rey actually took the “ancient Jedi tomes”; we see her have them on the Falcon near the end. Yoda, when burning the tree, said Rey already had everything the books contained. Turns out he meant it quite literally!
That’s what I love about these movies, takes multiple viewings or people paying better attention than me to get all the details
The same books Yoda denigrates and claims are useless.
Actually he said they were packed with wisdom but dull reads. You could apply that to any religious tome
Wow, I guess all those people in the sold-out theatre this afternoon were force projected there by Kathleed Kennedy?
No one is interested
I watched it for the third time today, and I consider it a terrific addition to the series. Love it. It’s just a ton of fun, which is what Star Wars should be. Hamill’s performance, despite his reservations about the story arc, is perfect.
And by the way, to address one complaint I’ve seen often: nothing much happened with the rebellion in “Empire” (which most people consider the best Star Wars movie so far, and compare “Last Jedi” to) either. The rebels escape from their base in Act 1 and are never seen again until the very end as a few random starships at the rendezvous point. The Empire was still poised to crush them. So I don’t get the complaints of the resistance taking it on the chin throughout “Last Jedi.” It makes me more, not less, excited about what comes next. Because what comes next is redemption.
–
It’s not they took it on the chin for me, it’s that the damn rebellion verse Empire, with a new hope arises, story was already told. We didn’t need another one, even if it’s slightly paced differently.
This is a good point. We are now set up for another retelling of rebellion vs empire. JJ has his work cut out for him to make IX look like more than just rinse repeat while bringing the Skywalker saga to a satisfying and necessary conclusion
I agree with mark that seeing him training new padiwans is played out, but I think I would have preferred to see his academy going horribly wrong then island Luke. Thus far the backstory narrative is more interesting to me than the trilogy story.
The sequel “trilogy” story line has been erased by Johnson. Abrams has his work cut out for him in the worst way possible. Everything that should have been TLJ “building blocks” between Ep7 (as TFA set up) and Ep9 just got blown away.
Such as?
ReyLo is still firmly on track.
Doubtful. That would be some serious story telling in IX to set up a believable romance between them as there was no setup for it in TLJ. Also how are they going to have a romance when they are on opposite sides? I would think there is almost no chance he will turn to the light or make it out of IX alive.
“there was no setup for it in TLJ”
When the film comes out on Blu-ray, rewatch that elevator scene with Kylo and Rey. Rey is definitely using Force Seduce on Ben, let’s be real.
LOL force seduce! I like it but that’s not what was happening. She still thinks there’s good in him and is trying to turn him back to the light. There was no flirting going on. Also by the end he’s chosen to embrace the dark side and she’s gone back to the resistance…or what’s left of them. Not very romantic at all. The whole of IX would have to have them together and most of the movie taken up with them to show a meaningful romance. Be real that’s not gonna happen.
It worked on me!
It’s my opinion that Rey and Ben is sort of a re-telling of Padme and Anakin. Padme and Anakin ultimately ended up being driven apart, Rey and Anakin will ultimately be driven together. Although Rey has now found her tribe with the Rebels, it’s still Ben (notice she now calls him Ben in The Last Jedi) that she most identifies with. Perhaps this is why both their masters, Snoke and Luke, are no more, so there is no one left to keep them physically apart. Rey can see the good in Ben. That scene where Rey was in the Millennium Falcon escape pod to get aboard Snoke’s star destroyer, was like some fairy tale princess in a coffin looking up at her prince. It’s so symbolic of Padme in her coffin. Read The Art of The Last Jedi. Rian Johnson expressly made that escape pod look more and more like a coffin, to mirror Padme’s death in Revenge of the Sith.
Ben will be redeemed in 9. That is the ending we are being driven towards.
I thought it was a parallel of Han frozen in carbonite being delivered to his nemisis, or what would have happened if Luke had been caught in carbonite and delivered to the emperor.
In this case, she physically locks herself in and delivers herself but it is a mental trap that led her to this. For me it is faithful to the rhyming of themes as mentioned by GL himself.
That’s a very good observation.
I agree with the rhyming themes with GL, that’s why I think Rey&Ben are a sort of Padme&Anakin.
All she was doing was trying to get him to turn back to the light. Rey “Ben come back to the light” Keylo ” No join me and we can rule the galaxy” not very romantic to me. Also calling someone by there real name doesn’t make it a romance. There was no sign of any budding romance. They would have to be together for the whole of episode IX for there to be a meaningful romance and there’s no way that’s going to happen. Also if by some miracle he does turn back to the light do you think the galaxy would forgive the supreme leader of the first order. I think not. And on the flip side, do you think the FO would forgive Kylo if he betrayed them? There is no way he’s making it out of IX. The skywalker bloodline will be ended after IX. Therefore no episodes X-XII.
Yes, quite simply I do.
Episode 9 will nicely tie off all the episodes before it. It’ll complete the journey that George Lucas started in 1977, and will end on a happy positive note.
Wow really! I don’t doubt that IX will end on a positive note but to expect Kylo to make it out alive would be a serious stretch of the imagination and very poor story telling. There is no way the galaxy will go “Ah Kylo has turned back to the light! We forgive you for your part in mass genocide of billions and the subjugation of the know galaxy!” I think the best you can hope for is he will give his life to save others. That’s about all that’s in store for him.
Ben now has everything he thought he wanted. He’s the supreme leader, yet the last we saw of him is that he’s all alone and he’s miserable as sin. He’s been chasing the wrong things. He’s now realising this.
He longs after Rey.
It’s funny how people see things differently! I thought the last we saw of him was him marching after the last of the resistance with a squad of troopers to wipe them out and being pissed they got away. He didn’t seem to be on his own or miserable that Rey was gone. Anyway, he’s still gonna die at the end of IX one way or another. Either that or end up in a very secure prison.
It’s funny how people see things differently! I thought the last we saw of him was him marching after the last of the resistance with a squad of troopers to wipe them out and being pissed they got away. He didn’t seem to be on his own or miserable that Rey was gone. Anyway, he’s still gonna die at the end of IX one way or another. Either that or end up in a very secure prison.
Also, if anybody was looking miserable it was Rey when she saw Finn caring for Rose on the Falcon. Although having said that there seemed to be a little bit of a spark between Poe & Rey when they introduced themselves at the end. I think there’s more chance of those two getting together than her & Kylo.
i would’t go that far…
From Variety:
“Star Wars: The Last Jedi” is inching closer to the $1 billion milestone, with worldwide grosses set to hit the mark before New Year’s Eve.
Disney-Lucasfilm’s “The Last Jedi” earned $934.2 million worldwide after pulling in $42.1 million globally on Thursday to reach $464.6 million domestically in two weeks along with $469.6 internationally.
“The Last Jedi” is now the 11th highest-grossing domestic movie of all time”
As a certain user on this website likes to say, SLAY!
lmfao
Projected to be the biggest movie of 2017. Will knock Beauty and the Beast of that spot, which incidentally is the 10th biggest worldwide movie of all time.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/38bacd5ed4cc43242ae7f6436bffc1ede48ed79af581a96d1632ce4716a6c9f9.png
Yeah, the Star Wars IP is pretty potent even if the fabase is devided. Let’s see how the Solo movie will compare to R1 and TLJ. This is what I am most interested in since it will probably be an indicator how Disney will move forward in the future. How frequently they release new movies and so on…
Here’s the thing.
If Disney ever expects to release another SW movie to financially compete with or even better The Force Awakens, then there’s no way their strategy would be one movie every year or so. Instead, they would dial it back to something like every three years. But that’s not their strategy, because they don’t have to. They aren’t limited to making a trilogy of saga movies.
The Last Jedi is firmly on course to finish in the top 10 worldwide movies of all time. Perhaps even a top 5 finish.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e2072641bd3bd46d683f0f2a95378dc1b6d0b88f8d6821fbdd4f04a93873c3d0.png
ur right. disney intends to milk star wars harder than luke milked the space walrus. 😉
What a metaphor.
And I say bring it on!
I think that’s always been the long term worry. Disney’s schedule right from the get go has had fan-burnout written all over it.
hopefully the year and half break between solo and 9 will help ease that. but i think this has put to bed any pretensions they may have had for two films a year.
A Star Wars Movie directed by Mr Potatoe Head will make money at this point. The BRAND itself is invincible — however, as the Last Jedi has proven, the fans can “strike back” and sink the Box Office lower than expected.
As far as I can tell the fan reaction to R1 was very good. And despite divided fan reaction TLJ outperforms R1. Therefore fan reaction instantaneous impact might be low.
Bigger impact might be for IX. I mean if there are really people that burn all their jedi books because of TLJ there may be less interest at that point. On the other hand, maybe there are new fans. IX can be massive if there are the new fans and you keep your books.
Personally I would not use the Solo movie as a barometer. Each of the Disney movies has different character. I actually have low expectations for Solo – so maybe I can be nicely surprised. But I never thought the original choice of directors was suitable for SW.
“however, as the Last Jedi has proven, the fans can strike back and sink the Box Office lower than expected”.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/66a39e69b0663a2bee8fa2fc85898d897a118a2e5782f10e1cae89d462997c97.png
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9707964a51049958026c7eafe48d22007fa06542aa1c247d3df0f16b78f235d1.png
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fcdb2949d9d26a380c2dd03546e2180132fe2bf2db3701f1ad1b9cff22127637.png
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/12/28/star-wars-is-saved-as-the-last-jedi-catches-up-with-jurassic-world/#138af97b5349
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bd7c944dce91183c5b7ed2eb542d2c0b893e64401c5bbca378f3984947962b98.jpg
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/658/436/6d3.jpg
Why are so many people disappointed with this film? Don’t they realize that no one is disappointed with this film?
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Let’s be honest for a second here. ‘Star Wars’ became a franchise to be consumed long before Disney took over (around 1991, I’d say). A piece of high art ruined by corporate greed it isn’t.
Those numbers sound really impressive.
Until you take into consideration sky-high production and marketing costs.
When you subtract them from box-office gross, the numbers don’t look so rosy.
The budget is officially, $200 million. Coupled with an extra hundred million from P&A, the total budget should be about $300 million, meaning that the film has already made more than triple its budget, with hundreds of millions of dollars still left to gross. Sorry to disappoint you 😉
Sorry to disappoint you because you’re underestimating real costs by at least 50%.
Consider also, that overseas in places like China, the government takes a BIG slice of the pie.
The marketing budget for TFA was around $245M, so you’re right there. Still, 1/2 billion in profits and climbing, yup success
“Sorry to disappoint you because you’re underestimating real costs by at least 50%.”
Please tell me, wise master, what the REAL cost of the film is, since you seem to be so knowledgeable.
The point is, even if TLJ has a total budget of $400 million (which is the absolute max amount that Bob Iger established would be used for each Star Wars film), then a gross of $1 billion (which TLJ will reach by the end of the year) would yield a profit of $100 million. Add in the extra hundreds of million of dollars that TLJ will make, plus the fact that the expenses of the film were likely much lower than $400 million, and the film is already profitable, clearly. That’s why Deadline says that the film’s profits will total $500 million or more, not even counting toys and merchandise. You may not the like the film but your own bias won’t stop it from being massively successful.
Son, denial isn’t a river in Egypt.
Son, denial isn’t a river in Egypt.
I agree, so wade out of it.
advertising around 250 standart, by far not 100. Then distributors, theaters……………but of course, by the end of the year there will be like 200 in Disney pocket…..no doubt this and any other SW movie is a financial success….well…..I´m not so sure about Solo tho 🙂
This is right. TFA came in around $245M marketing.
This is right. TFA came in around $245M marketing.
It made back it’s budget opening weekend.
I know there are some that will want to paint a top 10 all-time $1B + gross movie as an epic fail, but the reality is that it will be a success by any measure. It will most likely not meet the crazy expectations set for it, which is not the same thing as a fail for Disney unless Disney stock gets downgraded by analysts over this movie. Not going to happen.
Expectations for future movies will be adjusted for sure
It didn´t 🙂 learn how profit from movies works.
Sorry, it did make back the $200M production budget opening weekend. The additional up to $245M marketing budget was made later. Profit has nothing to do with my comment.
Learn how to read comments in the context in which they are made 🙂
Where are the real budget costs? I have only seen 200million USD figure which is lower than TFA.
Add 250 advertising
if box office results determine quality then avatar is the best film ever made.
Please cite the sentence in which I said that box office determines quality.
Please cite the sentence in which I said that box office determines quality.
then what are you spiking the football over? did you buy disney stock and not tell us?
I do actually own Disney stock, but that’s not why I said what I said. I wanted to let the record show that despite all the crowing about the misunderstood second weekend drop, TLJ is a massive box office success. The haters don’t get to feel like they “won”.
there are no winners in this… except for you. congrats on the economic foresight.
Last Week: TLJ isn’t making big money. No one likes it.
This Week: Every Star Wars movie is going to make money. Money is no indicator of how people liked it.
Last Week: TLJ isn’t making big money. No one likes it.
This Week: Every Star Wars movie is going to make money. Money is no indicator of how people liked it.
The goalpost will be moved as far as they want, lol.
last week: this is the best movie ever.
this week: box office proves it isn’t rubbish.
everyone has a bad case of confirmation bias going on.
True, but the major problem is that detractors of ‘The Last Jedi’ keep gleefully saying it’s a disaster to prove that they are in the majority and that the financial numbers back them up. It’s given that someone would eventually have to point out that it simply isn’t the case, irrespective of opinion on its quality.
every one with a dog in this fight is looking to justify their own opinion at this stage to “own” the other side.
The facts are what they are, though. The reality is that the film isn’t the financial disaster its haters want it to be to feel vindicated.
it was never going to be. though it remains to be seen if disney is happy with “merely” a top ten all time showing.
Disney’s overall ‘Star Wars’ ticket sales alone have now also surpassed the Lucasfilm purchase price. (http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/12/29/star-wars-ticket-sales-pass-4-billion-lucasfilm-purchase/)
Its a success. Its only failure is splitting the fan base, but following TFA I think something along these lines was going to happen sooner or later. I enjoyed it more than TFA, but regretted not having any line covering Snoke’s background. It felt a bit bloated, but otherwise a good middle film.
The majority of real Star Wars fans agree that the Last Jedi was a stink-bomb of epic proportions.
Proof is collapsing box office revenue, which since opening night, has fallen off a cliff.
This is just a warm-up act though: Solo will fail spectacularly, and Episode 9 won’t even make back it’s production costs, becoming the last fake Star Wars movie ever made.
Define a ‘real Star Wars fan.’
What do you mean, you’ve been defining real v alt fans for awhile now?
Timothy, dude! Do you need a hug? You’ve been trolling me now all day. And for the record, who’s whining? It’s kind of ironic that you’re insulted when you’re going around saying that real fans hate this movie! Please, in all due respect, I’m still waiting; define real fan.
Cut out of the baiting, Newbern.
Actually he asked a reasonable question that you unreasonably refuse to answer.
What’s your definition of a “real” fan? You’d must have a good idea since you were able to identify the majority of them
Obviously you don’t understand Star Wars.
Might I suggest finding another film series to explore? Star Trek possibly? JJ really dumbed it down so it might be a perfect fit.
Star Wars…wait don’t tell me. This is the one with the WWII battleship in space right?
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/15fa9a713560a43190b035bba3467f602100327062877134b1a07a4e9344e4f5.jpg
A “real” Star Wars fan.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c56f6bd1c988c45391175a0de9b4838d265eb010123ab5a078e628d4c7f370e9.jpg
I’m more interested in what a fake one is?! Someone who pretends to be a fan to make friends with nerds?
I’m a real Star Wars fan, nobody else is a real Star Wars fan. 😉
Based on?
Based on?
“Real fans”? You must get this shoved in your face an awful lot.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YcWxvdqRfXQ
Yeah it’s vital to distinguish between fake and real fans. The comments section is infested with the former.
That’s ok though I brought a can of Raid.
Alright, now you’ve got two things to define; what makes a “real” and “fake” fan?
This should be entertaining.
Alright, now you’ve got two things to define; what makes a “real” and “fake” fan?
This should be entertaining.
Real AND fake now. Come on, you can define what you mean by one or the other?
Or just keep trolling. Add “SLAY” every now and then for additional color
Yeah but fake fans are not going to the cinema to see a star wars movie more than three times or hang out on a comment board.
If anything a real fan would not set out on a mission to outright destroy the film’s reputation and discredit people such as Mark Hamill. I think they would be more pragmatic in their criticism.
It is performing better than R1 and nobody in their right mind would call R1 film a failure.
Every poll I have seen of Star Wars fans shows a majority in favour of TLJ with the majority of those in favour rating it extremely favourably.
Please post some poll of real star wars fans to back up your claim.
There’s a division in the fan base it is not split between “Real” fans and “Fake” fans.
Both sides need to understand this.
There’s a division in the fan base it is not split between “Real” fans and “Fake” fans.
Both sides need to understand this.
Yep, simply and bluntly split down the middle. It’s like war, nobody’s winning, although both sides think they are.
It’s funny how the entertainment media fawns over the movie knowing Disney holds the keys to so much industry opportunity. It’s hard to know if the Starwars media really liked it, but I doubt all because of the amount of fan anger is so high.
No speculation there
Right. There’s no way critics would ever give negative reviews to a big budget Disney movie. It would blow all their exclusive access.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7c3547b8b9b82f7dace76aab8f431fac39f13279102cb90efba9ae38a7188a5e.png
Oh.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fbd4febe21c7fe1bc6d917e76b0ccc693acc13e139472acfa0e250747811fbaa.jpg
Disney just did that to throw us off their scent! They’re playing 4D chess!! /s
More proof that the audience score on RT is crap. This movie was bad
This is pretty accurate for me.
I liked parts of this pirates movie, but the production quality seemed weirdly inconsistent. Hard to describe, the music sucked even though it was the same themes being used again.
I can totally see why critics hated this movie because it doesn’t represent anything artistic or ethical, while the audience would enjoy the cool visuals and some funny moments.
Overall, personally this movie fell flat for me.
I just saw this for the third time. It’s brilliant. It keeps getting better.
I damn near cried at the end this time.
I went from. 1/Huh? To 2/ookaay to 3/Wow.
The people who hate it are missing something great.
So much is being mis-read. This film really needs to be seen several times.
Ex: Luke tossing the sabre? It’s not a joke. It’s not supposed to funny. Its a “fuck you” to Rey. He’s saying this weapon is a worthless troublemaking piece of shit.
And he’s right.
Its like she handed him a gun.
Listen to Luke’s words in this film. Beautiful stuff.
I wasnt sure what to think at first. It’s not perfect.
But I fucking love this movie.
I just saw this for the third time. It’s brilliant. It keeps getting better.
I damn near cried at the end this time.
I went from. 1/Huh? To 2/ookaay to 3/Wow.
The people who hate it are missing something great.
So much is being mis-read. This film really needs to be seen several times.
Ex: Luke tossing the sabre? It’s not a joke. It’s not supposed to funny. Its a “fuck you” to Rey. He’s saying this weapon is a worthless troublemaking piece of shit.
And he’s right.
Its like she handed him a gun.
Listen to Luke’s words in this film. Beautiful stuff.
I wasnt sure what to think at first. It’s not perfect.
But I fucking love this movie.
Just saw it a 4th time today, this EXACTLY for me too
I agree, The Last Jedi is great…
It’s a great parody of Star Wars.
Saturday Night Live couldn’t have done a better job.
You’re missing something special. See it again.
A thousand times, yes.
Is that you Mickey, in any case you’re certainly taking it.
This highly derivative movie is equivalent to a hyperactive 5 year old with sticky and snotty hands ripping up a beautifully illustrated and much loved pack of cards whilst attempting to shuffle the deck:
Instead of Empire bombers going after the fleeing Rebel Falcon, we get Rebel bombers going after the the arriving First Order Dreadnought.
Instead of hyperspace being a way to escape the Empire, we get the reverse – hyperspace will get the Resistance caught by the First Order.
Instead of the roguish scoundrel Han getting the self righteous female Leader Leia to ‘lighten up’, we get the reverse – the self righteous female Leader Holdo teaching the rogue to follow orders(how inspiring and what fun).
Instead of Luke healing in a water tank, we get Finn walking around in a (leaky) water suit. Instead of the scene being dramatic, it’s comedic.
Instead of the solution to the hyperspace problem being found in a working (mining) city in the clouds, we get the reverse – a resort (gambling) city on the ground.
Instead of a force sensitive young slave boy who races speeders, there’s a force sensitive young slave boy who tends racing animals.
Instead of being betrayed by the suave, smooth talking leader of the city, we get the reverse – betrayed by a sleazy, stammering captive of the city.
Instead of Boba Fett chasing Han and Leia, Finn and Rose are brought to Phasma.
Instead of keeping Han and Leia alive, Finn and Rose are to be executed.
Instead of Yoda training Luke to be a Jedi on hard to find backwater planet, Luke refuses to train Rey as a Jedi on hard to find backwater planet.
Instead of Obi Wan and Yoda wanting to save the Jedi, Luke wants the Jedi to die.
Instead of a Dark tree cave, we get a Dark sea cave.
Instead of Luke seeing himself in his father Darth Vader, Rey see’s just herself, no doubt because, as in the crappy prequels, she’ll turn out to have been magically born of the force and that’s why she’s so immediately brilliant at everything.
Instead of Luke not wanting to kill a mass murderer, we get the reverse – Luke wanting to murder an innocent youngster.
Instead of Luke trying to turn Vader good and succeeding, we get the reverse – Luke giving up on and turning Kylo bad.
Instead of the Emperor torturing Luke at the end of a lightsaber fight and then being killed by Vader, we get the reverse – Snoke torturing Rey and then being killed by Kylo, before a lightsaber fight.
Instead of Vader betraying the Emperor and saving/freeing Luke out of selfless love, Kylo betrays Snoke out of hatred and his selfish desire to recruit Rey.
Instead of Vader and Luke fighting each other, Kylo and Rey fight together.
Instead of a clash of lightsabers, we get lightsabers against other weapons.
Instead of the conflicted Vader turning to the Light, the conflicted Kylo fully turns to the Dark.
Crait is an imitation of Hoth, complete with AT AT walkers, but instead of Hoth being in the first act, we get the reverse – Crait is the last act.
Instead of a high speed chase from Hoth, we get the reverse – a slow paced chase to Crait.
Instead of powdery snow, we get hard salt.
Instead of a Rebel cannon shooting at the Empire, a First Order cannon shoots at the Resistance.
Instead of snow creatures outside of the base, we get crystal creatures inside the base.
Instead of Luke struggling to levitate a rock after receiving some training, Rey effortlessly levitates many boulders after having received no training.
The Last Jedi didn’t ruin Star Wars for me, but it may have ruined reading Star Wars fan sites for me.
lol
Reading these comments, it sounds to me that there just might be something to all this stuff about modern Americans being snowflakes who need echo chambers and safe spaces.
Reading these comments, it sounds to me that there just might be something to all this stuff about modern Americans being snowflakes who need echo chambers and safe spaces.
Yep. It’s actually getting comical now all the hate being piled on. I love Star Wars but they are just movies. I didn’t much like the prequels but they didn’t ruin my childhood.
Yep. I don’t want to me too reactionary because I know that this will die down after a while, but I was seriously THIS CLOSE to exiting the Star Wars fandom after the ridiculous hate (and petitions) spewed online. I had to remind myself that it’s the vocal minority. But no matter what, I’ll always watch the films.
Same here.
It was the same with the prequels it will be the same with whatever comes next.
One day we will be so oversaturated with stuff that nobody will care to argue over it – THAT will be a sad day.
I think that people will get used to TLJ. I am not particularly fond of it since it doesn’t fit in as well with the rest of the movies as I had hoped for but I am sure that afterthe release of IX and some anthology movies it will feel more like a part of the saga. I probably won’t watch TLJ as often as other SW movies because it’s really long winded at times but I don’t frequently watch AOTC either so TLJ doesn’t ruin SW and I certainly won’t skip it in future SW marathons. I also think it speaks for SW that people still feel so strongly about this IP. That’s probably better than a Transformer’s movie where people don’t even care if it sucks or not because not even the diehard fans are invested enough in the franchise to really care about it. So yeah, the controversy will die down, TLJ will find its place in the saga and everyone will move on.
That’s fair comment, and what you’d expect from a normal person if they didn’t take to the film as others have; a far cry from the “Ruin Johnson declared war” bollocks some of the haters are spewing here daily.
Those people need to take a very long vacation.
I will be honest; SWs fansites have partially ruined my enjoyment of this franchise. And no, that isn’t an indictment on the fandom. I have met some wonderful people here and to those individuals, thank you for being so cool.
But really, The Last Jedi to me really exposed such an ugly nature of the fandom beyond what I could have imagined.
For me, The Last Jedi I find is my swan song for this franchise. As in, a part of me just feels burnt out. The New Canon, I find is a mixed bag, despite some good elements. And yeah, the ST I find overall is a mixed bag, namely due to how super inconsistent which that in of itself should be the discussion in my view.
But rather than feel bitter/ miserable, I choose to look forward. Namely, focusing on the stuff of SWs that I love and focusing on other franchises. Heck, I have even begun to write once more so as to see the stories I want to see be told. And note it isn’t fan-fiction.
Overall, to those people still arguing, let go. There is valid debate and I don’t discourage that. But we all love SWs, so let’s just appreciate that. For just because emphasizes the light side and dark side doesn’t mean we have to fulfill those positions.
Q: What’s the difference between The Last Jedi and Spaceballs?
A: Spaceballs was actually funny.
TLJ isn’t a slapstick. Dumb comparison. Jason, what’s the definition of a ‘real fan?’
A Mel Brooks comedy film is funnier than a space action/fantasy film.
Who would’ve thought?
A Mel Brooks comedy film is funnier than a space action/fantasy film.
Who would’ve thought?
I mean, have you SEEN any of his more recent films? And you thought you were just being flippant.
This is part of the problem with people not liking this film. Scenes or lines you thought were jokes, were not jokes.
Q: What’s Jason’s definition of a “real” Star Wars fan?
A: He doesn’t know
Troll
Q: What’s Jason’s definition of a “real” Star Wars fan?
A: He doesn’t know
Troll
He has no clue. It’s just a random phrase the Alt-Fans throw around…..
We get it you hated the movie, you don’t have to be a jerk about it and keep posting about how much everyone should also hate the movie.
Keep your opinions to yourself unless you have something constructive to say.
I liked TLJ more than any other SW film Disney has made. But I would have rather have seen George’s version of the Sequel Trilogy than Disney’s.
It would be interesting to see an outline of what he would have done, in particular the world building. That said, I’m sure glad he isn’t still at the helm.
Maybe someone other than George directing but I still want him writing the stories.
Or at least consulting on the stories and arcs.
I always felt no one would be honest with GL amongst LF and say “no George, I’m not sure that’s the best way to go”. I enjoy the PT, but the dialogue and scenes between Anakin and Padme are cringeworthy.
Having him as a story group consultant would be a positive, but yeah no final decisions allowed regarding casting, dialog or humor please.
Girl from a junk planet searching for hermit Luke is the story Lucas wanted in Ep 7.
Wow is that actually true?
Yes, it’s in The Art of The Force Awakens and The Art of The Last Jedi books.
They show the art Lucas had commissioned for his Episode 7 treatment which he was writing with Michael Arndt. There’s concept art of 2 characters Kira & Sam (renamed Rey & Finn) who are from a junk planet and there’s another character called the Jedi Killer who became Kylo Ren. Arndt wanted to push Luke down to Episode 8 because he felt Luke was taking over the story so Ep 7 became the search for Luke.
In The Art of The Last Jedi there’s concept art commissioned by Lucas of Luke living in seclusion in a temple on top of a mountain where he’s been for years. Rey is shown training with him.
I’ve never checked out the art books. Time to go to Amazon.
It would, but from I remember; Luke was going into self-exile in Lucas’s vision of the story. So either way, we get a Luke who clearly had it rough and chose to abandon the Jedi ways.
As to what caused his banishment in the first place under Lucas’s direction, only time will tell if we ever know.
It would, but from I remember; Luke was going into self-exile in Lucas’s vision of the story. So either way, we get a Luke who clearly had it rough and chose to abandon the Jedi ways.
As to what caused his banishment in the first place under Lucas’s direction, only time will tell if we ever know.
I think they should have kept some aspects of GL’s vision and hire him as a creative consultant. Don’t let him work as a director but rely on his knowledge as a producer. It worked pretty well in the OT. Why not combine GL’s knowledge with the skill of talented directors.
They did: Luke’s story of seclusion in Ep. 8 is what George wanted for Ep. 7. He also wanted a female character who lived on a junk-planet.
They did: Luke’s story of seclusion in Ep. 8 is what George wanted for Ep. 7. He also wanted a female character who lived on a junk-planet.
They didn´t. A thing hre and there doesn´t make a story. JJ, what happened to Vader´s grandchildren?
So the specific things I mentioned aren’t considered ‘aspects’ of Lucas’s vision?
Kylo Ren is Vader’s grandchild.
We don’t know what Lucas had planned originally. We can probably assume Luke was going to be in it. So Yeah they used aspects from his ideas.
But they did not use his stories. Taking a look back at his quote:
“They looked at the stories, and they said, ‘We want to make something for the fans’….They decided they didn’t want to use those stories, they decided they were going to do their own thing….They weren’t that keen to have me involved anyway — but if I get in there, I’m just going to cause trouble, because they’re not going to do what I want them to do. And I don’t have the control to do that anymore, and all I would do is muck everything up,” he said. “And so I said, ‘Okay, I will go my way, and I’ll let them go their way.’ ”
He was specifically talking about the Force Awakens and how it was a retro film that had a plot that was similar to A New Hope and similar designs.
However, The Last Jedi may be closer to what he originally intended and Kylo Ren’s original concept as the Jedi Killer was a Lucas/Arndt creation.
I hope you are right. But I find it hard to believe its close to GL’s vision considering how much they deviated in TFA. Maybe in 10 years we’ll finally see what was in those treatments.
Depends how detailed they were.
I think we’ll get to see Lucas’s treatment ideas when this trilogy is finished and they eventually release The Making of The Force Awakens book that was shelved since that is the book that has Lucas’s Sequel ideas.
With all due respect, Lucas should have done that, not Disney. The fan,favorite was written and directed by ither people and only based on Lucas’ story. Love or hate Disney, they bought it. I can understand their position. It’s like buying a used car. If the previous owner is going to tell you how to,drive it and whether or not you can repaint it, you kind of say “well thanks but then nevermind.”
If it’s a unique custom car and the previous owner and constructor of the car is giving me instructions how to handle the car I would definitely appreciate it.
I would’ve liked to have seen it in 1986 before George got rid of everyone who knew how to make his films good.
I can remember how disappointed some of us were when it was announced that the new movies were prequels and not sequels. I for one wanted to see the struggle for power after the emperor was put down
it is great that the same people who delighted in burning the prequels to the ground are now threatening to leave the fandom because other people are making fun of the ST.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bfbbb41a469d2ac761f9c9684da76c3a7a5d73806d04f24b33f154140b7d5673.jpg
I care little for the prequels, however, I never wanted to see them fail financially.
Never understood that.
its getting pretty embarrassing, on both sides.
Thankfully we have Solo to unify us.
and the last few episodes of rebels. 😉
Hey, I unashamedly like the prequels and have always detested the toxic reactions some fans had to anything to do with them.
I just dislike anyone wanting something else to fail just because they don’t like it.
The prequels might not add much to the story but they drastically expand the scope of the galaxy and I appreciate them for it. The way GL has been harassed because of the PT is the most shameful aspect of the SW fandom.
Agree
agree too
Yes, I feel so sorry for the quadruple billionaire who specifically and very purposely made movies designed to sell as much merchandise to small children as possible and who sold his product to massive monopolistic corporation so that they could do the same.
Yeah what an asshole. Let’s hate him because he dared to do his own thing and is so succesful!
I totally agree.
I’ve disagreed with where Lucas has taken his stories (not mine) since he handed spears to Teddy bears in ROTJ, deciding that young kids not his older ’77 fan base was the real target audience. Still, I never wanted the prequels to fail…despite Jar Jar and stupid humor and overuse of CGI
100% agree.
Just in: A definition of what a real Star Wars fan is is forthcoming
Can’t wait….
Must be waiting for Daddy to wake up so he can ask him
Kinda sad that you have to take this long AND make a news flash about it. Must be trying to find every excuse in the book to back your claims.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8fe49035d4a46fe7eeacc9bb9f6bbc160bcd4bce17e4940704df9629e38ac83b.jpg
Except of course there’s the other side of that message in the film: take what you need from the past but forge your own path.
Exactly
People aren’t the legends that build up around their deeds – they’re failable and human.
Anyone else want a copy of those Jedi books on a bookshelf or is it just me?
Now that you mentioned it…
Don’t worry Lewis I’m 100% positive that Disney will oblige.
Good afternoon.
Where I am it’s still morning. So good morning 🙂
Good morning 😀
Good day to you all(except you BobRoss).
I don’t know what kind of inside joke that is but I like it. Carry on guys (or gals)
Feel free to join in 🙂
Feel free to join in 🙂
Good evening then 🙂
The message that Disney wants to give with this new trilogy is clear: the old does not work and must be eliminated. Only young people can be protagonists. Those who are no longer young (although they have been heroes, although they have been icons of several generations and still have much to give) must be eradicated or at most relegated to secondary roles or ephemeral protagonism. The only achievement that Disney can boast of will have been wasted the last chance to give the most important saga in the history of cinema a worthy final. Because although Han and Luke return, without Leia it will not be the same. Now J. J. Abrams should go for the remainder of the original trilogy. Do not shake your pulse J.J., you’ve done it before and you can do it again. Put Chewie, R2-D2, C-3PO and Lando on the Falcon and shoot without fear. Di$ney supports you.
The only problem is that they are trying to sell the “let go of the past” message to an audience that very certainly doen’t seem to be able to let go. Despite the fake-drama that surrounded TFA, deep down all they want to see is unchanged old characters doing and behaving the same as they did decades in the past.
Right. Maybe TLJ was the bandaid being ripped off. Time to stop crying and move forward.
I thought the rumour was GL wanted to focus even less on the OT characters, so if anything Disney are playing it safe and phasing them out slower.
Yes!
The story of Luke that was told in Episode 8, Lucas wanted in 7.
Yeah but we all know by now that TFA was a rehash and soft reboot of the franchise instead of just going straight in with something fresh. I can understand why they went for that approach, but still feel it was the wrong decision.
Well they did start on the right foot with it being the story of the search for Luke but then they kind of didn’t pay much attention to that set-up and didn’t really do any searching.
It’s was even more wrong to continue to rehash the same story. Even if they tweaked it here and there, same story in the end. Small band of rebellions, powerful empire, new hope to spark the rebellion into overdrive.
It’s was even more wrong to continue to rehash the same story. Even if they tweaked it here and there, same story in the end. Small band of rebellions, powerful empire, new hope to spark the rebellion into overdrive.
I agree with this, but to avoid doing it, I think they would have had to exclude the OT characters. I would have been ok with that, not sure about fandom
I agree, both TFA and TLJ are fun to watch, but the overall arc of the trilogy being developed is poor.
I suggested before the FO should of been portrayed more as a terrorist group, with a leader with some basic background. Throw in the destruction of the Republic, without Death Star III, and then move into the 2nd film with possibly, as suggested elsewhere, another faction introduced near the end. So basically the last film is the FO and Resistance joining forces. It would need a lot of work not to be the novel Truce at Bakura.
I was hoping for something totally new myself out of the ST, completely ignoring the OT characters. But I get the reasons behind using the OT characters and it was obviously a success. Many original fans, like me, found TFA to be the movie we waited 30 years for and like the way TLJ went.
This was supposed to be a new trilogy. As a fan since ’77, I was very happy with the way JJ passed the torch from the old characters to the new and I would have been perfectly happy saying goodbye to all of them in TFA. Luke got a great send-off in TLJ and, frankly, more screen time than I had hoped he would get.
The new characters are now positioned to step out and make this their own story without the fan service baggage. Personally, I wish they had two more movies to do it.
Luke didn’t get a great send up, he got an epic FUnyou suck you loser. Failure is your legacy, but maybe that whispering lesson you gave Mary Sue will cause the rebellion to best back the white armored storm troopers for real this time. For real real.
FU Han to, bad father, bad husband. Bad uncle. Unkilkable mom. Unfalkable nobody. Remarkable story telling.
I’m pretty sure Luke redeemed himself in the end, saving what was left of the Resistance and facing down the first order ground assault alone. At least in the version of the movie I saw. Not sure how that translates to a legacy of failure.
Not sure what you mean by the rest of it, but if you’re suggesting that we’re just getting an OT reset, I kind of agree
Actually you’re wrong, Luke did get a great send up.
The message in The Last Jedi is made quite clear: take what works from the old and discard what doesn’t.
There is drama in the conflict between generations as much as there is between good and bad – it’s the story of life.
The whole point of this trilogy was to tell a story of a new generation. Not a second trilogy of the same people from the last one. Any time you want to see those people, just pull out your box set of IV-VI. Those aren’t going anywhere. This new trilogy is not about them and never was going to be.
Right. The baton has been fully passed, time to move forward.
Right. The baton has been fully passed, time to move forward.
It is possible to pass the baton to the next generation without killing the bearer.
Sure. I would have been happy to have Luke survive. On the other hand, then JJ would have been obliged to use him in IX. Time to move on.
Been passed to an untrained Jedi from a sandy world. One scantly trained in anything, yet super duper powerful.
I agree we’re retreading the OT is some areas, but why is Rey less belivable than an uber powerful 8 year-old or whiny farm boy…both also from sandy worlds
I agree we’re retreading the OT is some areas, but why is Rey less belivable than an uber powerful 8 year-old or whiny farm boy…both also from sandy worlds
Yet they told the same old story, tarnished the legacy of the old, and made the new New Hope as about as believable as an intellectual conservative. Yay!
Nothing about the legacy of the old characters has been tarnished in any way.
What does this even mean?
“and made the new New Hope as about as believable as an intellectual conservative”
To tell the story of the children, it is not necessary to kill the parents. The story of a new generation could relate perfectly without trampling the past. Why should everyone die now? I never expected to see in this new trilogy a Han, Luke and Leia doing the same as in the original. It would be ridiculous! What bothers me is the rush of Disney to make them disappear. They are not so old either and their characters could give a lot of game yet. Abruptly eliminate such iconic characters as Han and Luke is sacrilegious !! I do not know what happens to these people, but I can think of a thousand ideas on how to introduce new characters without discarding the classics. The imagination of these times is in clear decline. But hey, the damage is done and unfortunately time can not be turned back.
And yet in the OT, Ben dies, Yoda dies, Anakin dies. When do you want them to die, exactly? How many of these movie do you need to see them in before you deem it appropriate that they pass on? Particularly considering the difficulty that one of them is now gone in real life?
If the prequels had come out before the OT, you would have been bitching about how Yoda was handled.
“They made the most powerful/knowledgeable light side force user and GRANDMASTER of the Jedi Order a bit part in ESB. Hell they even had him act like he was just some dumb creature to to teach Luke an arbitrary lesson. As if Obiwan would not hav etold him what Yoda looked like to help him find him! And don’t even get me started on RoTJ! They just kill Yoda off like its no big deal. What a joke!”
From Forbes:
“Oh, and its 23% third-Friday drop is the second-lowest ever for a $100 million+ opener…It will also be the second-smallest third-weekend drop for a Star Wars movie going back to The Empire Strikes Back.
The Rian Johnson sequel will end the year as the top-grossing movie of 2017 in North America. So yeah, it’s probably going to top $1 billion either sometime today or very, very early tomorrow.”
Wow, but I thought that TLJ was having TERRIBLE weekend legs because everyone hated it and agreed that it sucked. I thought it was going to flop and STRUGGLE to hit a billion dollars? /s
Just though I’d leave that there, in case anyone wants to know. No one in particular, just ya’ know. For fun 😉
Someone’s not taking The Last Jedi’s box office performance so well.
She’s looking a little bit foolish now.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d7fd1c12343bd9a2592f2c22d9d0e696debdb7575596794a81b75628ee757683.png
She always does. She tried to say that Batman v Superman had a shot at being the first $3 billion movie and that the bad reviews were caused by Marvel paying people off. She’s legitimately insane.
She comes across as anti-Disney. I’ve picked up on it quite a few times. She was purring like a cat when The Last Jedi has the 2nd weekend drop, even though she actually loved the movie.
It’s because Disney owns Marvel and Marvel fired her back when she worked for them. I used to wonder why, but I personally wouldn’t want a nutcase working for me either.
It’s because Disney owns Marvel and Marvel fired her back when she worked for them. I used to wonder why, but I personally wouldn’t want a nutcase working for me either.
She liked Rogue One as well pretty much.
Yeah I know. Seems to be her favourite SW movie. She just comes across as really unprofessional now and again.
I’m still waiting for people to explain why this movie was ever going to reach the stratosphere of TFA’s numbers after Empire sold only half the number of tickets as A New Hope and Attack of the Clones sold roughly 60% of the tickets that Phantom Menace did.
The haters are still arguing that night is day, black is white, chalk is cheese.
I’m guessing Disney are absolutely delighted with the figures.
The haters are still arguing that night is day, black is white, chalk is cheese.
I’m guessing Disney are absolutely delighted with the figures.
And the timeless ageless Porgs! lol
As a real Star Wars fan, I find it amusing and a little bit pathetic seeing you Disney fans play around with the box-office numbers in a desperate attempt to try and prove that the majority of fans are wrong and the The Last Jedi doesn’t in fact, suck. I’m here to tell you though, it does indeed suck, bad. Not only does it sink the GFFA to new lows (previously thought to be impossible after TPM) it’s now in the running for the Golden Turkey award handed about at the Razzies every year. That’s right, TLJ is not only the worst Star Wars film ever made, it’s now leading the pack for the worst film of 2017 for any genre. Go ahead and keep boasting about how much money it’s making though.
Please prove to me that you have any clue as to what the hell you’re actually talking about. Please show me the surveys you conducted of “real Star Wars fans” to determine how everyone hated it. Because I can show you actual scientific surveys that show exactly the opposite among viewers of the film. Until you have some actual proof, you’re simply talking out of your ass and no one really cares what you have to say here.
Obviously you do care or you wouldn’t have bothered to reply.
Much to learn, you still have…
So you have absolutely nothing. Yeah, I thought so.
Jason: “Yeah it’s vital to distinguish between fake and real fans. The comments section is infested with the former.”
Still waiting troll
She does like The Last Jedi, though.
From Comicbook(.)com”
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c8d0e215de348b1bcf05d41a5d2b9d697d25a4b72f404c1ea61c6894137fc61c.jpg
Turns out that TLJ had a SMALLER drop this weekend than TFA. Sorry to disappoint anyone 😉
Your whole thing just looks pathetic now. If you think this was the projections or the aim then you’re only fooling yourself. Nothing new though.
Please grace me with the “projection or the aim”. Please show me where you talked to a Lucasfilm exec who informed you of their box office expectations. I’ll wait.
You’re right, Disney must have been projecting and aiming for a week three drop that was greater than the 30% TFA drop
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/748527aaff35d3edecb3d7c91018fb0ccc681d6be1f5a31669165222c2ebfe23.jpg
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/748527aaff35d3edecb3d7c91018fb0ccc681d6be1f5a31669165222c2ebfe23.jpg
Bull, I wanted a new story and the old characters to be sent off with respect. What we got was a completing whitewashing of their legends and some new characters that are supposed to repeate the same acts.
Which Trilogy has an empire full of white armored storm troopers, small rebellion in need of a new hope from a sandy world. An untrained Jedi whose Master disappeared into the force.
Which Trilogy told that story.
My initial disgust with Last Jedi is wearing off. What do I do? Should I re-flame the embers of my hatred and see it again? Or, will seeing it again give me a greater understanding for the ‘masterpiece’ that it is?
I think I’m waiting for BluRay. We’ll see what I think then…
This is what you and all other real Star Wars fans should do: stop enabling Disney and rewarding them for failure by giving them your hard earned money.
Instead take a moral stand and boycott their trash.
Nice, you finally defined what a real Star Wars fan is: anyone who likes Disney Star Wars films.
Troll
Nice, you finally defined what a real Star Wars fan is: anyone who likes Disney Star Wars films.
Troll
Jason’s proving to be as big a ‘real fan’ as Kent.
Thankfully, while they can follow their own advice and not spend a penny on Disney’s Star Wars offerings (although they do like to waste a huge amount of time on message boards shitting on them), they are nobodies at the end of the day. The movie’s doing great financially; the majority of people really like it, and try as they might these two dingbats will have 0% influence over what Disney decides to do with Star Wars in EpIX and thereafter.
StopBullsh!ttingInYourPosts, the majority of people did not really like it.
Saya 0 polls. Google “majority” and try again
Like the polls about Trump and Brexit. LOL. Apart from yourself, I don’t know who you think you’re fooling.
Which poll or even fan rating shows an actual majority dislike? I’ll save you time…none.
Another ‘real fan’.
Troll.
Mmm no you can’t say that 100%. It’s pretty split. I’ve met just as many who dislike and like the film. I’ve met those who find all problems with the film and still enjoy it. It’s by no means the best, but I would not say majority wise hate this film.
It’s referred to as the most “polarizing” film for a reason.
SLAY
William Shatner just slammed The Last Jedi.
Who would’ve ever thought Captain Kirk would be a real Star Wars fan.
Where? Are you talking about the pretty funny Porg poster?
The Shat is really the last person who should be throwing shade at other franchises…
The Shat is really the last person who should be throwing shade at other franchises…
that wasn’t shatner, please do basic research:
https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/947260421160935424
Wrong.
That was the real Shatner on 4chan.
He even confirmed that it was him with his official Twitter account.
he was joking, good god:
https://twitter.com/WilliamShatner/status/947307565913796608
Purposely didn’t come back here for a week. Tired of the haters.
Clicked on an article where Mark Hamill apologizes for voicing public concerns about the film because people misconstrued his words and are trying to say EVEN LUKE SKYWALKER HATES THIS MOVIE.
First post made in the forum thread is a random “I hate the Last Jedi” comment that has nothing to do with the article.
I am so surprised.
Dear SWNN mods, writers, and site runners.
There’s a difference between allowing free speech and letting people run amuck just spamming the same boring shit over and over again.
I’m out. Gonna find a new site to discuss and read Star Wars news.
But thank you for all your hard work in the mean time. May the Force Be With You.
Ahh American Ignorant, we meet again.
Actually going to have to agree with you on this one.
You probably know or could guess my feelings on TLJ, but I still think you draw a good point.
It’s been over 2 weeks now, I don’t see anything wrong with people discussing details about why they enjoyed or disliked this movie, civically.
I didn’t really like this movie, but the “Rian Johnson killed Star Wars, Disney ruined my childhood” comments are really dramatic.
Obviously it’s a comment board so people should feel free to state their opinions. It’s not too difficult to do so without trashing other people, including Rian Johnson or Kathleen Kennedy.
I’ve shared how I felt about the movie, but at the same time realize that Disney now owns Star Wars, so they are free to do with it as they wish. I guarantee their goal isn’t to destroy the franchise, despite what some may think.
American Ignorant, though I’ve disagreed with your opinion about this movie, I hope you reconsider leaving SWNN. You’re one of the few who can construct well thought out comments with actual substance to debate about/with.
Goodbye aptly named one, hope you find that censoring, echo chamber you’re looking for. In the meantime, try closing your eyes, sticking your fingers in your ears and going “lalalalalalalalala”.
Got to agree certain pointless comments should be removed. If people can’t be bothered to be constructive in criticism then the post should be removed.
if people want to make fools of themselves it makes no difference to me. i just wish more people would just ignore(or block) those comments instead of getting all hot and bothered by them or taking their ball and going home.
anyway, i’ll miss your banter, buddy. see you around. 🙂
I am hoping JJ can fix epi 8 by doing a superb job on epi 9 and fixing or changing problem areas. For example he could keep Luke alive. He only vanished for a few seconds. Maybe it was like when people die for 10 mins on operating table see a white light and return. Its not impossible to explain him coming back ie he was strong with the force or force ghosts helped him etc.
Well, in that thought; Since obviously Rian didn’t stick to any of the “plot” avenues set up by JJ in Ep.7 (except for totally destroying them instead of building on them, Rey’s parents, Snoke’s background, … just about everything in Ep.7 which was a story for another time). Luke could wake up from dream, and it’s as if he, force visions the entire Ep.8 in a flash-future when he touched the Lightsaber on the top of the Island as originally filmed at the end of Ep.7. And BOOM… we’ve reset the SW universe. “The future, always in motion it is.” I’ll take anything other than the crap fest we have now (and I’m referring to Ep.8, the Last Jedi… yeah, it sucked).
Making Luke actually alive would be wrong IMO, he’s joined the force and it was shown. What could be done is Rey’s parents are something and she is special, that wasn’t conclusive, and Snoke could return if dark side users finally had a method of returning like those joining the force. We’ve seen such ghosts in the Clone Wars with the witches, so maybe time for the big screen.
Making Luke actually alive would be wrong IMO, he’s joined the force and it was shown. What could be done is Rey’s parents are something and she is special, that wasn’t conclusive, and Snoke could return if dark side users finally had a method of returning like those joining the force. We’ve seen such ghosts in the Clone Wars with the witches, so maybe time for the big screen.
Rather than wasting any more time on Luke, they need to focus writing for Rey
Well yes – hence he should be back only as a cameo in force-spirit form. Personally the fault of the trilogy IMO stems from TFA, it should of been bolder and had us leaving the original characters in that film, a true passing of the torch.
Its for this reason many still feel its a rehash of the OT, with yet another hope from a desert world and an Empire and Rebellion with different names…
100% agree
TBH, THIS movie felt like the proper kick-off to a trilogy to me, far more than TFA.
Yes – change it so the FO, a terrorist group, ambush the high command of the Republic and you’ve launched. Simply have Rey as a Padawan of Luke’s that is with Leia since she escaped the destruction of Luke’s academy. Forget the whole search for Luke, or dial it back, and still have Leia send her to his location.
I don’t even think you need to alter things THAT much. I agree that it leaves you with a problem to solve of getting Rey and Finn into the story, but they’re solveable ones. I really LIKE Luke having been crushed by his failure, retreating from the Force, and needing to learn that failure is a vital part of life, and that accepting and dealing with it is part of growing. I think there’s a really good movie in there if you take half of TFA, and all of TLJ, perhaps minus Canto Bight for runtime reasons.
Yeah a mixture could of worked. I hadn’t thought about Finn’s role to be honest, while I like the character and the Canto Bight concept, it could of been dropped. Of the top of my head Rose could of been the one to slice and the FO could of simply seen past the ‘stealth’ ability of the ships from a malfunction or something.
Yep, as long as it ends in the hangar with BB8 just straight out murdering people in the background (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! LOVED IT!!!!), I’m good. Condensing it would also have given Phasma a start and end point in the film. Feels like such a wasted opportunity with TFA, and now they’re going to have to try and squeeze two films worth of story into one. Gawd, it’s the PT all over again, isn’t it?
Dear Jesus yes. I loved the movie, but if Rey had actually been a compelling character, I might have loved it so much my head exploded. That happens to me some times.
Seriously though, I don’t know if Rey can really even be salvaged at this point, and I have grave doubts that JJ Abrams is the one who could pull it off anyways.
Luke has completed his arc, and having him actually come back would totally betray what he learned in this movie, Yoda’s last lesson, and completely negate what he was trying to tell Ben. I fully expect we’ll at least hear from Luke again (“See you around, kid.” – although, if they do just leave it unspoken, just a constant, nagging doubt in Ben’s head I wouldn’t object), but physically? Naw, it’s much more satisfying this way.
FINALLY got around to seeing it yesterday. It’s too long and/or a little unfocussed, I dislike the dull-as-dishwater Super Rey even more than before I walked into the theater, there is some truly boneheaded plotting going on (Holdo, I’m looking at you here) and…I STILL thought the movie was terrific. Absolutely fantastic. It has a consistent theme Rian wants to explore (and, NO, it’s not that everyone who came before you sucked. Watch it again). It’s beautifully shot, especially compared to TFA, with some really striking compositions in the second half. It takes Luke to an interesting place, and provides a satisfying reason for why he’s there. It dares to veer off the Campbellian heroes’ journey model, and break what’s become the cliché of Star Wars plotting.
So much to digest, but my immediate take away was that DESPITE some outright terrible stuff, and despite how badly written Rey continues to be, the movie works really, really well.
Any plans to see it again on the big screen? It gets better in my opinion with each subsequent viewing.
I probably would, but for two things. First is that I’ve been living in a remote area for a while now, with a single-screen independent theater. The Disney strong-arming of distributors is making it highly unlikely that they’ll bring the movie in. Committing to either 5 weeks or handing over 70% of the BO is a hard argument to make for independent theaters in a small market. I had to make a ferry trip in to the city to catch it yesterday, and that’s a) an all-day proposition b) stupid expensive (thanks, BC Ferries. GFY). Second, there’s a number of other films I really want to see, and I find as I’ve gotten older (and this is purely a personal thing obviously, YMMV) I find the idea of seeing films over and over again in the theater a little…sad? There’s just so many other things I’d rather be doing. I WILL be buying it on Blu though, which, even as much as I liked it, I didn’t with R1, and if I had the choice again, wouldn’t have with TFA (seriously, GTF out with that bare-bones shit, Disney), and am looking forward to seeing it again at home.
Which part of BC are you living in? Beautiful part of the world.
I’m in an area called the “Sunshine Coast” – about a 45 minute ferry ride out of Vancouver, then another 45 minute drive from there. attached to the mainland, but we’re like an island because, stupidly, there’s no surface route here. Been around tho – started in Toronto, moved to the Bay area in California for a bit, and have landed here for the last little while.
Had a strange feeling you were going be over on Vancouver Island. Have family over on Campbell River. Sounds a nice part of BC you live, inconvenience aside.
Can I just get a “What what!!!” for Rian employing real, honest-to-god puppet Yoda, and convincing Oz to crawl back under the floorboards to do it one last time? Ho…lee…sheet.
Terry Gilliam may have had a hand in that decision:
https://youtu.be/sppU9ku7ByQ
Go to the 22:48 mark.
We got a Luke Skywalker that was low energy and low test.
We got a Luke Skywalker that was low energy and low test.
Well I like this rounded Luke Skywalker myself. His The Last Jedi self fleshes out his OT character better – it would be cheesy if he’d stayed farmboy-like at 60. I like that he’s grouchy and not ‘dark’ and macho like your Frank Miller Batman, because that endarkening of fictional characters is a bit tiresome now. I had a pile of quite idealistic, upbeat poems and articles published in my 30s that my 20s self was training for,in my inner Dagobah, ho ho, but have fallen into a tired and negative period at 46. A fictional character, even a heightened space fantasy one, is better writing and thinking in this state than one treating a finite fictional being in a fixed archetypal fashion. A couple of days away from my third viewing I can take The Last Jedi seriously and in fun equally now – the flaws don’t bother me all (where they’re even actual!), and Luke’s arc, and aspects of Kylo’s, suit my outlook fine.