THR: Disney is Weighing Options for How to Handle Leia’s Future Role in Star Wars: Episode VIII and IX
The Hollywood Reporter has the inside story today on the ongoing discussions within Lucasfilm and Disney after the tragic and unexpected death of Carrie Fisher. Fisher was set to have a significant role in the next two saga films, but her sudden passing has the filmmakers questioning on how to move forward.
Some possible spoilers ahead:
Carrie Fisher’s passing has been tough on her fans everywhere. But sadly, the studio still has to find a way to make the trilogy she starred in come to some sort of believable and enjoyable conclusion without her. THR is stating that not only was Leia’s role going to expand from VII into VIII as had been previously reported, but that she was going to be tapped for an even large role in Colin Treverrow’s episode IX. Specifically they reference two key scenes to take place sometime in the next two films. It is unknown if either has already been filmed during the production of Episode VIII.
From THR:
…insiders tell The Hollywood Reporter that at least two key scenes are planned for Episode VIII (Dec. 15) and Episode IX (2019): a Leia reunion with Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) and a confrontation with Kylo Ren (Adam Driver), her son who killed Harrison Ford’s Han Solo in 2015’s The Force Awakens.
At this point, it would appear that no decisions have been made. THR is reporting that Colin Treverrow will be flying to LA to meet with the studio to discuss options next week, but that many at Lucasfilm are still very much mourning her death. But in this instance they do have the benefit of time on their side. With just less than a year to make any necessary post-production changes to Rian Johnson’s episode VIII and production on IX not expected to start until next year, the creative team has time to mourn and make the proper decisions without being rushed to come up with a quick fix.
It would also appear that all options are still on the table. THR makes reference to the possibility of drastically cutting her role in both films and shifting the focus away from Leia. But there is also mention of going with a more controversial method.
Another solution is to use CGI effects; a reduced role could mean Leia would only appear in glimpses. “Rogue One is the road map,” says one Star Wars source, referring to Lucasfilm resurrecting Peter Cushing and making Fisher young again in the current hit.
“I have no doubt, given some of the recent work I’ve seen, there are filmmakers who will be willing to take up the challenge,” says Michael Fink, an Oscar-winning VFX supervisor who teaches at USC. But, “so far, we have seen moments of success but not full performances.” He says there’s also ethics to weigh: “Should we create additional roles for Princess Leia? I don’t think so.”
Lucasfilm will likely have many tough choices ahead as they try to deal with the loss of one of their stars. Carrie’s passing was a dreadful event and will have severe impacts on the franchise going forward. We can only hope that the filmmakers find a way to honor her memory while delivering a film she would have been proud of.
I think it is better if they stuck with the original plan for the story and used cg for episode 9. Main reason being i dont want them to throw out any of her performance in ep 8.
Let Leia pass away in 8 and bring her back as Force ghost in 9 to confront her son, that’s in my opinion the most respectful way to handle the character after Carrie’s passing. It’s less controversial I think to put her as a CGI force ghost, than recreating her digitally alive. UNLESS, all her scenes for 9 were filmed already. Then of course use that footage.
There’s a lot of ways they could take this, but above all I hope they keep her in Episode 8. It would be so upsetting to have her just swept under the rug because Carrie isn’t with us anymore, both to her memory and the character.
I know a lot of people didn’t like the CG peter cushing, but I also don’t want the lucasfilm people throwing away half of their story arcs to “write leia out.”
I think it’s best to recast the role for Episode 9 and I think Carrie Fisher would agree. Forget about extensive CG work, that still isn’t completely convincing.
I always thought Carrie bore a slight resemblance to Linda Blair who played Megan in the Exorcist,not sure if she still does,or even still works in the acting biz;
It’s pretty damn convincing at the moment, Rogue One proved that. And in 3 years time it could be quite a bit better.
No effects work is 100 percent convincing to everyone.
It’s a tricky one. I don’t think CGI is the way to go,far too soon,also recasting is iffy,could be done but it is bound to upset some fans seeing as Leia is such an iconic character. Reducing the role and have her last performance in EP8 would be preferable,if she could somehow go down in a blaze of glory,how though I have no idea without contradicting myself on my first two points.
There is the more important point of respecting and honoring Carrie’s memory.
I say try and wrap Leia’s story up in EP8 as best you can and change EP9 around the fact she is no longer with us,have Luke shoulder the important parts of her arc if possible.
Would it be a crazy idea to have her daughter play the role, ageing her with makeup?
That’s an awful lot of aging to do, and an awful lot of work for someone who already has a [bigger] role.
We don’t know how big the role is.
Still, they already have another actor in the LF family to play Leia should it come down to it, as she played the role in R1. No reason to drag Billie into it.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/122df26656f401223a7c4361b19a9c203489f763a778e382ddca5f585747f453.jpg
Ingvild Deila
They have her play 50 something Leia?
60-something. Absurd.
It wouldn’t be dragging if she wants to do it to honor her mother
Perhaps, but I don’t see it happening.
I don’t see a lot of things that people say on this site happening, so par for the course haha
They don’t really look that similar. Billie Lourd could far more plausibly play a young Debbie Reynolds than a young Carrie Fisher. Billie is much taller than her petite mother, and their facial features are quite different.
I don’t mean that she could look like her. I mean more that it would be a sentimental, poignant and wonderful thing to have her do it. And it would be more acceptable of a re-casting decision to the fans.
I think fans should accept the mortality of the actors and accept another actor to replace someone. And not criticise the new actor because of the fact that he/she is not the same person.
This is just all around sad. I may never see a Luke and Leia reunion. This new trilogy will always have a tint of melancholy to it, a “What could have been” feeling. I hope they don’t take for granted that they have Mark Hamill and make Luke Skywalker shine as the brightest star in the galaxy. I know this trilogy is about the new characters, but we would not have this sequel trilogy if it weren’t for the legacy characters. R.I.P. Carrie Fisher. Thank you.
Well they said they had a reunion in VIII and it was also said recently that she had finished filming for it, so I bet the chances are good you will see it.
They have to go with CGI. Human CGI is almost perfection, and by episode 9 blu-ray release, they could even improve CGI leia
They have to go with CGI. Human CGI is almost perfection, and by episode 9 blu-ray release, they could even improve CGI Leia
Not even close to perfection. Every moment of Tarkin in Rogue One was distracting at best.
For you, a Star wars fan. The average viewer likely had no idea (my mother and brother didn’t notice at all).
They will have the same critical eye that fans have for this movie being everyone knows she is dead and having a CGI replacement for her is going to be a huge story. They will be looking for it.
Exactly.
I do not know what you are trying to argue. If the best they can do is what they did in RO then they should not do it. The general audience and critics will not be as forgiving for a somewhat off CGI Carrie as they were for Tarkin.
Oops, I misunderstood you. Anyway, while most people will know, I doubt they’ll feel negatively about it. Everyone knew about Paul Walker’s death, and it only helped Furious 7’s box office. If they resurrect Carrie with CGI and give her an emotional sendoff in Episode VIII, critics and audiences will love it. I’d put money on that.
Put your money on that lol. That is a bet I would not touch with an eleven foot pole.
I would.
I know you have already said as much.
Totally. I spoke with several people that simply thought Rogue One edited in unused ANH footage for the Tarkin scenes. For Star Wars fans that were well aware of how these scenes were brought about, you’re going to have a certain percentage of viewers that are going to look for any indication of it being a CGI character and run with it. The scenes were incredibly well done. Any complaints that the CGI work was “terrible” or “not even close to perfection” is just noise.
You’re just being contrary here. Even the most picky of people seem to think that the Tarkin scenes were, at the very least, pretty well done. I was pretty hardcore against a CGI Tarkin, until I saw him on screen.
I guess I’m one of “the most picky of people,” because I’m just saying what I thought sitting there in the theater. Maybe it’s my art training. Maybe it’s that I don’t generally watch a lot of CGI-heavy movies, so I’m not conditioned to accept it. It just didn’t seem real to me. For the record, the 9- or 10-year-old me watching Empire in the theater didn’t believe Yoda was anything but a more-realistic muppet with the voice of Grover’s grandfather. Still loved it, though.
Well, from what I understand, E8 is in the can. So, I’d probably leave the movie intact. If Leia survives the film, her role is E9 could be much, much smaller. For that, they could rely on a CGI character. I liked Tarkin’s role in Rogue One. It wasn’t perfect, but it was darn near. I think most folks feel the same. As time passes, that technology is only going to improve and become more convincing, especially now that the genie is out of the bottle and we’re probably going to see an increased use of this sort of thing in future projects. It might be three years before post-production on E9 begins, which is loads of time for the technology to further mature. And it doesn’t have far to go.
I hope she finally gets a lightsaber in VIII, losing against Kylo while others escape.
She is not a Jedi at all. That would be a short fight.
But…but….she has the Force!!!! I thought “Having the Force…for the last 3 hours” trumped years of training.
Someone’s salty.
Leia has not shown a propensity for hand to hand combat like Rey has. Nice try, but boring conversation.
I trust LFL to make the right decision, both for the story and for Carrie’s memory.
Until we see episode 8, there is no use speculation about 9.
This is precisely why I was initially so miffed about Luke and Leia not have significant roles in Episode 7. My thought was, these people aren’t getting any younger, and these movies take a long time to produce. If any one of them were to pass away during the process, Lucasfilm would have to retcon/rewrite/compromise whatever original story they produce. And what’s now happened? Precisely that.
Nevertheless, I really hope Disney and Lucasfilm can come up with some satisfying way to end the story. They have the world’s top filmmakers working for them, so I’m sure something will stick. Personally, I think they should keep whatever they’ve shot of Carrier for 8 in tact, and then reduce her role and use CGI for the few scenes she’d have in 9.
I agree. While I enjoyed force awakens very much. I feel it was a missed opportunity to reunite the big 3 on the big screen one more time. Instead they killed off Han and now sadly Carrie Fisher is gone. So, there is potential for Luke and Leia to interact in ep 8, but I doubt they would do much CGI of her. I think they will have to rework the story, possibly kill off her character off screen somehow. It could work considering how the resistance stuck a major blow to the first order by destroying starkiller base. Now, the first order strikes back so to speak by wiping out the resistance base where Leia is killed in the process, or perhaps she sacrifices herself to save the resistance or is killed by kylo Ren. So, there are some options. I think they can still salvage the story, it will take some work but I think it could be good.
I’m wondering if Disney had something in her contract that if she was to pass away before the trilogy was done filming that they could use CGI for her appearance in the trilogy.
I would think that having Billie Lourd involved will make it a little easier to use CGI for Leia. Maybe have Lourd provide the voice
24-year-old Billie Lourd providing the voice for her 60-year-old mother? I think something like Adobe’s Project VoCo is a more likely solution.
Not to be mean, but people who smoke for a long time end up sounding kind of the same after a while. I feel like they’ll be able to find someone.
Highly doubtful
I don’t know. Actors often sign off on all sorts of likeness agreements when taking on projects. There might not be a specific clause in her contract that stipulates her likeness in future film installments, but probably some more general usage agreements. In addition, this CGI likeness technology was probably already in pretty advanced development when Fisher, Ford, and Hamill were brought on board for E7. And they’re not kids anymore. Anyone at Disney worth their salt probably would see the value in something like this and wrap it into contracts.
Also….I’m going to be really upset if it turns out Leia doesn’t reunite with Luke in 8. I mean Jesus H Christ…they already withheld the Rey parentage in TFA. Were they planning on saving all the key scenes we as fans wanted to see for 9?
The solution is obvious. Leave Episode VIII as is. Luke is Leia’s twin. Mark Hamill as Luke and Leia in Ep IX.
Oh God, no.
http://content.internetvideoarchive.com/content/photos/7510/00000054_3.jpg
There. Done!
I am sure Carrie would want her role in 8 to culminate to a satisfying/reasonable climax/end in 9. If they can’t find a way to change the story to a just as satisying place as she originally witnessed and portrayed in 8, then stick to the plan and CGI her in 9. Having her supposed “planned” and satisying scenes, that this trilogy has been leading upto, occur in 9 is the way to go, even in CGI.
Keep the story intact but reduce the role as needed. Re-casting just doesn’t seem as good of a solution as the CGI technology they used in Rogue One. I think it would be very difficult for fans to accept someone else playing Leia.
Again, it would be easier for fans to accept a different actor than another actor, just covered with a collection of 1’s and 0’s?
Yes. It absolutely would. Tarkin looked great in Rogue One (Leia, not quite as seamless). If you’re seeing nothing but 1’s and 0’s when you see a CGI character, I can only imagine how many you see during the space battles and other gazillion scenes that rely on computer graphics.
I think they’ll have to cut some of her scenes. The two scenes they mentioned in the article are both scenes that we knew were coming. I’d imagine that the reunion scene with Luke is already shot and will go on uninterrupted but I’m sure the moment with Leia and Ben Solo is going to be one of the big moments of the whole trilogy and it’ll hurt the story to have it missing.
I wouldn’t be so sure about the Leia and Luke reunion having already been shot…
I could easily see the filmmakers looking at each other and saying “You know what, let’s leave it out of 8, so that ALL the big pay offs happen at once for 9.” Their whole attitude being “well, the delayed gratification thing worked after TFA…let’s keep that train rolling!”
Mind you if he’s responsible for the deaths of both Han and Leia, having Luke redeem him could be quite powerful, what do you think?
You don’t just recast Leia/Carrie Fisher, it would be too jarring and doesn’t honor her legacy as that character. I also HATE the idea of restructuring her story arc for Episode 8. Keep it intact, do a digital double for 9 if you have to. Given the tragic circumstances, I would be much more accepting of a slightly CG looking digital likeness of Carrie Fisher that honors her memory and keeps the same story, over some new actress, and/or significantly reduced screen time. With all of the trial and error of Rogue One, couldn’t ILM now take that technology to the next level?
Recasting is too jarring, but CGI is not? I dunno.
Thing is recasting makes the character of Leia no longer the sole domain of Carrie Fisher. That to me is not the way to honour her. They should go with what they have and then honour her with having Leia finish her character arc with the likeness of Fisher with CGI.
It’s STILL a new actress taking on the role. Neither scenario gets around that.
A new actress being covered in Carrie Fisher’s face. It’s closer to the real thing.
Hey there man. Are you going to Celebration in April?
I would if I weren’t such a poor, poor peasant.
Yes – but in the case of R1 do you see in Tarkin the resemblance to Cushing or Guy Henry? Don’t get me wrong, I think Henry did great, but its Tarkin we all wanted to see and that is for most Cushing.
If they recast her with her daughter, it might. But having Leia not be the sole domain of Fisher wouldn’t dishonor her either. Especially if she expressed misgivings about CGI replacing her entirely for a movie. We don’t know enough to say.
Totally – we simply don’t know what Leia’s involvement was planned to be.
The CGI Tarkin and Fisher in Rogue One were pretty good. That technology is only going to improve. I think some of the reaction against it is because we know it’s CGI and are looking for ways to dismiss it. My guess is that we’re going to start seeing more and more of this sort of thing, with improving quality. We’ll get used to it. If Leia’s role in E9 is a very small one, I think a CGI likeness would go over much smoother.
Oh, I think they were great, but even being great, they were jarring. Leia’s not as much as Tarkin’s.
Tarkin was for me, but I believe that’s because in the back of my mind I know he’s been dead for 20 years.
I would be interested to hear the views of people who are unfamiliar with Cushing. Anecdotally I’m told that friends of friends were oblivious to the fact that he was CGI.
It wasn’t until recently that I discovered that the Audrey Hepburn Chocolate commercial was CGI, I thought they had rotascoped her into it using existing footage.
Maybe Lucasfilm can dilute the amount of screen time on Ep8 and then use the rest on Ep9 or use deleted Ep8 footage of Carrie for Ep9, like others have said Lucasfilm will do the right thing by her legacy and it will be emotional for the fans whatever happens on screen…especially Luke and Leia reuniting after all these years and us knowing it’s for the final time.
I miss Carrie,
I think I had some sort of feeling that they (Ford, Fisher & Hamill) were immortal, untouchable, would always be there. Ford has put that to the test often enough.
And I want the sequels to play out as intended, I want to see Carrie again, but at this stage it just feels wrong.
I just hope they can make the films work in her abscence. It’s one big hole to fill.
Yeah. It’s pretty rough saying goodbye to childhood heroes. But it’s a rough fact of getting older. My grandfather is 93 years old. He’s seen every single actor, writer, musician, and athlete he admired pass on. Good grief, the next 20 years are going to be rough.
fellt the same when Christopher Reeve died.. he was Superman FFS..he cant die.. Life is crap folks..
There is plenty of Carrie Fisher audio available for manipulation via Adobe’s “Project VoCo” if needed.
I’m a little confused….there was a rumour ages ago that Leia didn’t have a big part and that she was gonna be injured and in a coma for most of ep8 and now the rumour is she had a larger part…..I supposed rumours will be rumours
I was under the impression that her “bigger role’ was going to be in Episode IX.
If that coma thing is true, then I guess she doesn’t have to wake up from it. Sounds like a fairly easy out.
Of course, it’s a little too close to reality.
Quick question to those putting forward the idea that somehow recasting would be worse than a digital double (as if either option were all that palatable). You all…DO…understand that the digital double route ALSO involves recasting, right? It’s recasting the role, but with an actor wearing a digital mask.
For myself its having her likeness as close as possible to Carrie Fisher, and that for me would be CGI. I don’t think her role would of been massively increased for 8 & 9, few key scenes, but that’s about it really.
I think everyone understands that. I’d rather see a CGI Leia if used sparingly in E9. I want to see Fisher’s face. I could care less if it’s someone else’s hands or legs.
For me, completely recasting seems even more disrespectful than the CGI. It sort of gives the impression that Carrie is replaceable in her most iconic role.
Agreed. As much as I don’t want the CGI treatment, it will be 3 years from now so the technology will be improved. A CGI mask sounds like a good way to have a powerful sendoff to the character as we have always known her and then retire the leia character. Recasting her would give me the impression that they are going to use he new actress in other roles and she is the new leia. Maybe years from now if her daughter aged into the role I could understand a recast, but for now a new actress with new voice and look would be a tough pill to swallow for the final moments.
I understand that people’s feelings are raw on that one, but for me, recasting for maybe writting Leia a smaller part in Ep IX feels more respecting.
In the case of Tarkin/Cushing, even though his role is important, it isn’t a main character, and Cushing has been dead for over 20 years, making it less likely that seeing him “acting” would upset dear ones. Even though, after watching R1 twice, I came out with the feeling a recast would have been preferable, for ethical reason, as well as artistic ones, on first viewing, CGI Tarkin threw me right out of the movie, it was less jaring on second watching, but still, I could not bridge the Uncanny Valley. for me it would be heartbreaking to experience the same disconnect with Leia/Carry…
with all of my love and respect to Carrie, I think what they should do is to tell the story they intended to tell in a first place no matter what. id be okay with recast over CGI double, tbh. i believe Leia deserves to confront Kylo in the movie, and with her love prefferably turn him towards the Light, something even Luke probably won’t be able to do. there are plenty word class actresses around Carrie’s age ( Judith Dench, I know a bit older but whatevs, Sigourney Weaver to name a few ) who could, a la Dr Parnassus, respectfully finish what Carrie started. just my opinion tho
They have to go the Paul Walker route, adjust the movie to fit her untimely dead in, and just use CGI to polish it up to give her a dignified exit, please no more full time CGI character in E9
I say recast. Its the lesser of two evils imho, and get Sigourney Weaver to take over and not alter the story. It will be a rough transition, but i think we will get past it
Interesting casting choice. Not sure I’m on board with it. I feel guilty recasting at all. But it’s not like any of us will just up and forget her or that we are disrespecting her.
Carrie was about 5’2, Sigourney is over 6′ tall. you’re kidding?
If they recast the role, it would be better if its a significantly reduced role and we only see her fleetingly. I kind of prefer them just having someone mention about Leia’s death near the start of ep.9 and reworking the script accordingly.
But, didn’t they already wrapped filming in episode VIII? If you have her aprominent role in VIII, why on earth the article says they want to cut her role down in BOTH films? For Yoda’s sake, use all the stuff you have in VIII that involves her, then either make her pass out with the thing being implied, and make her not be in IX at all, or CGI her. Tarkin worked. I would never ever see someone else being cast as Leia instead of her. Not in star wars.
Very hard to give an opinion when you have zero idea on how VIII will play out.
However, whatever decision they make, I hope Episode VIII won’t be changed as a consequence. I want to see that movie as it was originally supposed to go, with her original performance. Best way to honor her, I think.
If it suits to put a space battle at the beginning of IX, just make her die in one. That way, her death would be offscreen without being off-movie. Dying humbly in the middle of a space battle, when everyone was the least expecting it, would be kind of humbling.
You see, everyone expects a big character to die in a heroic, overdone way and with a big fanfare. How about… just… “Sir… we’ve lost General Organa.” followed by silence on space. Humbling.
I like this idea very much!
I like this idea, as well! This would avoid the CGI option, which seems like it could be a perilous decision for Lucasfilm for years to come, should they choose to go that route. Not even sure how I feel about that one yet, I’m still processing Carrie’s passing.
Incidentally, I also think that one of Rogue One’s strengths as a film is that it also relied upon understanding what you describe in your last paragraph; which is that a character’s death can be handled in a way that lets people feel more what they want to feel individually about it, without having a bunch of drama piled on top of it.
Wow that would be beautiful and heartbreaking.
But you are assuming that ep8 isn’t setting up a dramatic confrontation between Leia and Ben. I think that confrontation is the planned climax of the trilogy.
Good point. I never assumed that would be the climax. I hope not. It would have been a very interesting scene for Kylo’s development, but I hoped something a little different as a climax to the whole trilogy. Or else it’s just like Return of the Jedi all over again.
Let’s wait for Ep VIII first!
They aren’t going to recast Leia. They’ll either utilize editing and reshoots to minimize her role and then write her out or they’ll cut VIII more or less as planned and if they need to (and have the rights) they’ll complete her role with a CG Leia. I think Carrie would approve and I’m sure she’d have a clever joke or two about it.
The fact that the vast majority of people in this comment section are endorsing bringing a woman who died literally last week back to life via CG is just disturbing to me. I’m not in love with the Tarkin effects in Rogue One, but Cushing has been dead for thirty years. If Lucasfilm decides to resurrect Fisher for an extended role in the new episodes, I think I’ll be done with this franchise. There are more important things in the world than Star Wars movies, and respect for the dead is one of them. Writing Fisher’s passing into the movies is the only option.
Explain how recreating a person’s likeness after death is disrespectful, but only for a period of time? How many years does the person have to be dead for it not to be disrespectful anymore?
You likely won’t get an answer, other than self-righteous and subjective blathering. Everyone has an opinion.
I think resurrecting Tarkin is also disrespectful to a certain extent. I just think resurrecting Fisher is far more disrespectful.
I kinda think its disrespectful too. But it wouldn’t bother me personally. I could see it bothering people close to Carrie though.
If I were filming a movie and died, I would LOVE it if i could “live in” through a CGI version of myself.
i wouldnt though , if i was your child or family member ….. or even very close friend
as long as she looks better than the wax figure that appeared in rogue one and has her family’s endorsement i’m down. both the character and carrie deserve a proper send off.
I thought the CGI effect of her in Rogue One was decent enough. Someone watching the movies for the first time who didn’t know any better might think it was the same actress. But I think you’re right that her famil should be ok with it if they use any kind of CGI representation of her in future.
No that one was fake as hell, but that could have to do with the lighting. Full CGI in films almost always looks better within darker scenes, in my opinion anyway. Thought that helped the Tarkin in Rogue One considerably and having it so bright, her in white, hurt the Leia CGI.
I feel like I’m really blind right now 🙂 I did notice the CGI with Tarkin, there was something rubbery and off about his appearance but Leia felt perfectly fine for me… Am I really the only one who doesn’t see it?
I wouldn’t say you are the only one, but a minority. There are those that liked it. I am definitely not one of them. Didn’t like the hope line either. But at least we can probably agree the movie is pretty good!
My wife didn’t have a clue who Peter Cushing or Tarkin was until I told her he was in the original and then she said “oh he has aged well then”
Double facepalm from me!
That’s funny, my sister was in disbelief when she heard me and my brother in law talking about the Tarkin CGI after they saw it, lol. We had to show her online that the actor had died. I liked the Tarkin, its the Leia I didn’t care for or think they did very good with.
take a good look and then tell me again how real that looks.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/98cbebc90b2ac7e4e7ad4b032e223929757eea436be4cf0f7b25afd8791020ba.jpg
Looks real to me. It doesn’t look completely like Carrie Fisher, but it looks real. Either way, it’s hard to tell when we only have shitty, compressed pirated screenshots and our own memories to go off of.
so you’re saying that i can’t trust my eyes or memory? k.
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. k.
https://www.apa.org/monitor/apr05/memories.aspx
alright. from now on i’ll reserve all judgements about all things star wars until i have a blu ray of the film in question playing. savvy?
Looks pretty damn good all things considered. Don’t be too harsh on Technology.
i’ll give the computers a heart felt apology.
She looks better here than the Hasbro Black Series 6″ figure that some of us are buying/bought……so there.
yay.
She’s only just passed away. It seems a little bit disrespectful to be bringing her back through CGI already.
The film is coming out in 11 months. If any plans need to be made about changing 8 it needs to be done now, to allow for reshoots and new effects shots to be planned. In regard to 9, that film is currently in pre-production, and what happens in 8 will effect what happens in 9. So now is exactly the time they need to be talking about it.
“Business”
She already shot Ep8. Ep 9 is not out till 2019 so enough time will have passed.
I think they should have her character die but discover that Luke taught her how to live on as a force ghost. A CGI spirit or simply a disembodied voice would be easier and more believable to have her interact with with all the characters on last time and avoids most of the uncanny valley problem while minimizing screen-time and giving a fitting tribute to Carrie fisher
A good idea. Seems a little on the nose though. Just saying to the audience that she died and now she’s a force Ghost. Where is the how and why? Surely they wouldn’t explain that via the words of another character.
True, all I meant was only having to have the uncanny valley for one scene of CGI prosthetics to film the character’s heroic sacrifice and the rest could be her voice speaking to Luke similar to how obi-wan spoke to Luke before
Whatever they do (CGI, recast, reduce the role) should serve the story. Get the story and screenplay for Episode 9, then decide how to handle the role (I assume most of the shooting for Episode 8 is complete). Don’t decide on how to handle the role, then adjust the story. We’re forever hearing rumors of this actor or that actor having a “big part” in Star Wars only to find out that only have five minutes of screen time (Max Von Sydow) or are hidden under layers of makeup or a fat suit (Simon Pegg). A big role does not necessarily translate into a lot of screen time in this franchise.
I’m going to take the conversation in a slightly different direction here, obviously prefixing with my deepest respect and admiration for Carrie.
What are your thoughts on the idea of having the first, new, official legends novel? I feel like it would be a great opportunity to put out a version of the original idea for her character’s arc in VIII and IX. Or at least to reveal draft scripts or excerpts.
Resurrect the Star Wars Infinities label.
I only ever heard of those stories from a friend, but I know the general idea behind them. It’s an interesting thought, but I personally feel that if they did something like this, it should really be a one-off if LFL and Disney are trying to keep the Canon as streamlined as possible (their success in that being another discussion for another time).
Agreed.
SPOILER ALERT!
In the most respectful way – i think they should consider the following.
There where rumours that should would get hurt in EP 8 – the could rework that, and let her have some light form of Vader suit in order to survive. That would mean you could use another actor. You could change up her voice, and it would make for a powerful reversal if she in that state meet with her son who wants so badly to be vader.
As for the design – it shouldn’t be a helmet like vaders, just something that covers her mouth and nose, since that area usually is a huge give away when it comes to CG. We should still see the eyes. I don’t know… it could work. When it all comes down to it – it just sucks! 🙁
Final thing. Dedicate EP 8 to her at the end before the credits, and have the credit roll in silence – nothing less
I don’t see that going well.
No doubt what version of ep8 comes out from the experience of Rogue One we are going to get countless articles on ‘what could have been ep8 before the rewrites and reshoots”….talking about what they should do though is sadly just write her out…I have no problems with the CGI with Tarkin in ROTS, I just see it as next gen prosthetics when they use another actor but when George Lucas started the whole idea of the sequel trilogy and asked the original gang if they would be interested he told them that if they didn’t want to do it he would just write them out and never recast. It’s now Disneys baby but I think this is the way they will go. It’s going to be bitter sweet watching this movie come December.
recast her character or CGI her.
Honestly I feel writing her out of the story would be more of a disservice to Carrie, her character, and the story.
She came back after all these years to finish this thing, let her finish it, and honor her.
of course this is just my opinion
I don’t think CGI would go over well TBH. Just recast her and be done with it.
I think that would go over worse tbh.
It is not going to be easy that is for sure. This sucks all around.
Agreed.
I say do both. RECAST Princess Leia and then use CGI to “Carrie Fisher” her look as much as possible.
Man this is crushing… not only did they change Lucas’s original vision for the sequels now we can’t get Disney’s original vision.
The fan in me wants them to use CGI and finish the story as intended. But the human me asks if that’s not just a little morbid.
Lucas wrote a treatment. Treatments are starting points and change all the time.
And it wasn’t Disney. It was Kasdan and JJ
Well if we’re talking about Episode VIII, then it wasn’t Kasdan and JJ, it was Rian Johnson.
Lucas only had a treatment for 7 and an outline, I think(?) for the entire trilogy. It started with the treatment for 7 and that was altered and iterated on by Abrams and Kasdan.
Yes, but when he says “Disney’s original vision”, he means the original visions of the people that Disney and Lucasfilm hired to create Episode VIII. That would be Rian Johnson.
ok. My point was only that Lucas’ original vision being changed is a natural part of the screenwriting process.
And I agree.
I agree too. But there was a point when Lucas planned on directing 7 and the only point I tried to make is we didn’t get that version and as the story writing processed continued without Lucas it cleared moved away from what he would have done.
That’s correct.
And I agree too. The difference with 7, 8, and 9 is Lucas is not involved in the process of change. As he was with the first 6 movies. Based on interviews I’ve seen he still wanted to be involved but bowed out when they went in a different direction.
So the point I was original making is that Lucas’ stepping away and Carrie’s death will have a profound effect on how to trilogy turns out.
It just might. The thing with Lucas is he likes control and having sold it, he gave up control and can’t change that so it’s better to not be involved than sort of half in. It needed to happen at some point.
And no movie turns out exactly like its original script. Pretty sure everyone is aware at this point.
But the fact remains that Lucas wasn’t entirely pleased the changes behind 7:
“They wanted to do a retro movie. I don’t like that. Every movie I work very hard to make them completely different, with different planets, with different spaceships, make it new.” – GL
not my point, but sure.
We might still get the original story,
The death of Carrie Fisher will most certainly have an effect on the story.
Probably. but we don’t know for sure.
That’s really the main thing I espouse here: we don’t know. Certainty is something people wield here and they tend to get upset when I push back on it.
Probably? Its literally impossible to make the movie they planned, the one that stared Carrie Fisher.
Carrie is gone and even if they CGI her it won’t be the same. Even if they give the CGI character every line every shot Carrie was supposed to get. It won’t be the same. Carrie is gone and you can’t replace a human being (especially one that special) with CGI and say it even has a chance of being the same.
At very least her personality and anything she would have bought to the film won’t be there. And they are having meetings at Disney about what kinds of changes they need to make because of her death.
“Probably? Its literally impossible to make the movie they planned, the one that stared Carrie Fisher.”
Not true. The rumors for Episode VIII had Leia put into a coma (VIII has already been filmed, regardless). They can replace her with CGI in IX if they want. They don’t HAVE to change anything, though they probably will.
I’ll just quote myself…
“Even if they give the CGI character every line every shot Carrie was supposed to get. It won’t be the same.”
According to your own arbitrary judgements. We’ll see what the audience has to say.
*Shakes head* She was going to be in the movie. Now she’s not, she has passed away. It has changed.
They were already having those meetings before she died. Don’t believe everything that you read. They are going to see if they even need to make changes or see what their options are. If they recast her, they can keep the story the same. It won’t be the same as if she were doing it, but the story would be the same.
So “literally impossible” is not correct.
Honestly I think I would be okay with a recast. It would rather Disney go with their original vision for the ST. I can’t imagine seeing Leia being killed off screen or not having her be a big part of saving the galaxy again. She was the only person that kept fighting the good fight among the big 3. It would be weird to see someone else as Leia but for Carrie let her character have the ending that she deserved and not a watered down version of a character that is an icon. I wouldn’t want to be the person to step into those gigantic shoes but I’m sure they will find someone that will.
(karen allen)
She already has history with Harrison, but I’d still rather not see her as Leia.
I would be okay with that.
That would never happen. Princess Leia is an iconic character. She’s synonymous with Carrie Fisher. Not to mention it’s a tad bit disrespectful to Carrie’s final film role. I didn’t have a problem with the CGI characters in Rogue One. In fact if they did that I’d be bursting out even more tears in the cinema.
Never is a strong word in a world where Han Solo and Lando are being recast. They aren’t going to recast her in Episode 8, I’m talking about Episode 9 and beyond. What’s worse? An uncanny valley version of her isn’t something I’m excited about seeing. If you can get the right actress to step in and respect the role and what Carrie did then you have to move on. You know it’s not her on screen either way. If Carrie can’t be in it then she shouldn’t be in it. There’s a difference in not having her in the film playing her 19 year old self than not having the age appreciate her be in the film.
Duuuude. You can’t compare the recasting of Han Solo and Lando to Carrie’s situation. Two different things. Clearly her role in IX is going to be reduced, assuming they aren’t looking to replace her with another actress. I mean, VIII is just under a year away. Her supposedly increased role in that film could be reduced and/or scenes that she filmed could be placed into IX. Jesus, don’t you feel wrong inside just thinking of someone else portraying Leia, and only so shortly after Carrie’s death? I’m sure the folks at Lucasfilm feel that way. I guess it’s bias because I actually liked the CGI characters in R1 but it could still provide that emotional impact and connection with the audience. In whatever capacity that is, which remains to be seen. Again, it depends on where the story goes now that Carrie Fisher has passed away.
A the end of the day it comes down to what is doing Carrie and the character of Leia better justice? Having someone come in and giving the character a fitting ending they planned out or having a reduced role with the CGI? You can’t do a whole movie of her as a CGI character, the technology isn’t there yet as it was very apparent in Rogue One. The longer you looked at Tarkin while he looked amazing (my wife had no idea that Peter Cushing has been dead for 20 years) the more CGI he looked. He was good in quick glances not in full on scenes. If you do the ending planned with a CGI character and not be jarring then fine go for it but there is a reason why it has been used in a limited capacity thus far in film, the technology just isn’t there.
If her role was to be increased in EP9 as Colin Trevorrow wanted, then her death chages all that. I’m guessing if its not in 8 then in ep9, you would have had some srt of confrontation with Kylo and Leia where she’s like, you kiled your father, do you want to kill me too?? Again, this might happen in ep8 already, but maybe art could reflect life here, in that it could be written that Leia died of a broken heart between 8 and 9. Just a thought.
Hope they do a simple write off during 9 and shift whatever role she had to Luke.
I see a problem in CGI characters.
They show us Anthony Hopkins young, Leia briefly, or Tarkin commanding a ship.
But those are not really dramatic moments.
What makes a character essential and important, is that moment when the interpretation of the actress/actor touch us and give drama.
We all like Darth Vader as icon, but he would be ridiculous without the acting of Mark Hammill or Carrie Fisher around him, mirroring us.
I guess that part of the work of actresses/actors when they shine in the best moments of movies cannot be done yet by CGI.
And if they are not needed for those moments, I guess their role in the plot could be replaced by any other character.
I thought Tarkin was great in Rogue One, but the original performance of Guy Henry is also very good. Ewan also did a great job as a younger Obi Wan, so let’s not overlook the potential of real actors. Ultimately I think this comes down also to the context of the role in Episode 9, reanimation so soon after her passing to play a role that maybe dies on screen may be very discomforting to her family and fellow actors. Respecting their feelings and her legacy is most important in my opinion.
I want to see Princess Leia CGI’d over an Actor. We *NEED* her in Ep 9 — we NEED to see the Story that was planned out. I am betting Carrie’s family would love to see Carrie’s “path” continue in Ep 9, as Carrie had wanted it. I dont want a lame re-write that casts Princess Leia aside – we lost her once, I dont want to lose her again.
Agreed. How about using Carrie’s daughter as the CGI’d actor to play Leia?
that would not be a good body fit. Billie lourd playing a 60 year old? Leia’s chest has expanded in her old age ( being as nice as possible with those words) so i don’t see using her daughter as a viable stand in. It would make no sense. Using her body as a young leia, sure…different thing completely. But not for Ep 9 leia.
Why couldn’t she just wear a body suit that would give her “Old Leia’s” figure? Lucasfilm has accomplished much more difficult tasks in all their years of doing special effects. Surely they could find a way to do it. It would certainly be the most heartwarming way to carry on Leia’s role.
Princess Leia has been and will always be my hero! Since I was 3 years old she has been such a positive influence on myself and my life. I believe that Leia is the strongest character in the Star Wars universe. Think about is, she watched the planet she was raised on with all of her family and friends on it blow up right in from of her, she was a slave to a giant slug, she is practically an orphan by the age of 23/24 with her real parents and adoptive parents gone, her real father was the most feared sith lord, in recent years a majority of the new galactic senate thinks she’s crazy, her twin brother has run away and is hiding, her husband runs away because he can’s handle things at home, her only off spring turned to the dark side, and her only off spring kills her husband. And through all of this Leia has been strong, not cared what others thought, and pushed through everything. It is so tragic that Carrie Fisher cannot finish this characters arc and story. I love Carrie Fisher and i will never get over her passing. She gave Princess Leia her personality and spirit. She was Leia. I really hope LucasFIlm and Disney gives Leia and Carrie Fisher the respect she rightfully deserves in whatever they decide to do with Episode 8 and 9.
Read Bloodline. Leia’s even better in print than Carrie Fisher’s portrayal of her in Ep.7.
I did read it and loved it!
I would just find the right actress to pick up the role. Like they did with Dumbledore in HP. I mean, they’re going to make a full Han Solo movie without Harrison Ford for god sake !!
Yeah… but this is young Han…. akin to young Obi-wan. Also, you can’t compare Dumbledore to Solo XD. the first actor died after the second film, of 8…. and he was behind a beard, glasses, and wizard hat. Recasting him was fine. They can’t recast Leia. Their only options are to kill her, use VIII footage, or CGI.
I think we will get unused VIII footage, mixed with re-shoots and back of head shots of a stand in with possibly doctored audio. some sort of collab of those things. I son’t think she will die, and i don’t think they will pull a tarkin.
It’s just so deeply sad Carrie isn’t with us anymore, she is the only Princess Leia, for me a recast would be the worst LF could do. I’m sure most (if not all) of her scenes were filmed for epVIII, and I think these scenes shouldn’t be changed, as well as her role in ep IX. If she really has that big role in ep IX changing it could mess up the whole story. I think in ep IX they should use CGI if Carrie’s family agrees with it, and maybe shorten her screentime, and show her face for shorter time, if it’s not a must.
I think there isn’t a perfect option everyone would like, I know a lot of people are not satisfied with the R1 CGI, but ep IX is 3 years away, CGI will improve much for sure.
kill her off (like they would have done anyway eventually) but without much fanfare (or fan service) …. have her assassinated in the middle of some big attack so theres no time to dwell .
and have a huge , “for carrie”at the end.
The Show must go on. It’s the entertainment world’s MO. It’s sad she’s gone, but they should do what they need to to make the skywalker story complete and resolved in the most satisfying way possible. Use Princess Leia as needed to complete the story, then figure out how to get it done, recast or CGI.
This will become a bigger issue into the future as Star Wars appears to be setup to continue “forever”. Stars will die, will age, or possibly lose interest in continuing their roles. And while Rogue One was a special case, I am hoping we don’t end up with half the leads in a Star Wars movie being CGI-reconstructed characters….yikes.
The beauty of doing it in cgi is that, as the tech improves you can go back and update her scenes. Then disney has an excuse to re release and sell new versions of the films
I haven’t read all the comments yet, so somebody else may have suggested this, but what if they had Leia be seriously injured and disfigured –as Anakin was–and have to become part human/part machine. There would be parallels to her father that could work if handled properly. In fact, seeing his mother so transformed might have a deep impact on Kylo Ren. And any CGI would not have to be perfect.
Someone below actually did suggest down below that they put Leia in a Vader-esque partial suit. It could be a strong piece of imagery.