Collider Jedi Council: How Rey Could Restart the Jedi Order

On this episode of Collider Jedi Council, Ken Napzok, Perri Nemiroff, and John Rocha discuss Mark Hamill’s possible snub from the 2018 Oscar’s, Reed Moreno’s involvement with Lucasfilm, Rian Johnson’s response to Luke’s force power, the return of Emperor Palpatine in Star Wars Rebels Season 4, The Last Jedi Novelization, issue #23 of Poe Dameron, and more. 

 

 

 

 

Collider’s team wants to hear your voices! Send your twitter questions and opinions to @ColliderVideo with the #ColliderJediCouncil. To check out more episodes from Jedi Council, check out their YouTube page.

 

 

+ posts

259 thoughts on “Collider Jedi Council: How Rey Could Restart the Jedi Order

  • January 26, 2018 at 7:40 pm
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    Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but were some of these Jedi Collider Council members invited to TLJ Premiere by Disney? (Many people have posted on John Campea YouTube page that he was invited). I hope not, but If that’s true, then these guys have lost alittle credibility with me because I can’t trust their opinion anymore. There is no way they are going to bad mouth the movie if they were invited to the Premiere as that is how Hollywood works (Except Mark Hamill LOL!). What I always liked about this show is these guys and gals were just like us, SW fans, but had no real allegiance to Disney, Lucas or anyone and just called it as they see it.
    Again, I hope someone will correct me if I’m wrong and nobody on this podcast was invited to the Premiere.

  • January 26, 2018 at 7:40 pm
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    Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but were some of these Jedi Collider Council members invited to TLJ Premiere by Disney? (Many people have posted on John Campea YouTube page that he was invited). I hope not, but If that’s true, then these guys have lost alittle credibility with me because I can’t trust their opinion anymore. There is no way they are going to bad mouth the movie if they were invited to the Premiere as that is how Hollywood works (Except Mark Hamill LOL!). What I always liked about this show is these guys and gals were just like us, SW fans, but had no real allegiance to Disney, Lucas or anyone and just called it as they see it.
    Again, I hope someone will correct me if I’m wrong and nobody on this podcast was invited to the Premiere.

    • January 26, 2018 at 7:47 pm
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      That’s literally not how Hollywood works and such a statement as yours is a personal insult to their integrity.

      Funny how everyone is ok until they voice an opinion you dislike, then they are sucking up to Disney.

      Says more about you than it does them.

      • January 26, 2018 at 8:19 pm
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        He’s asking a question, not making a statement.

        And you answered it with flying colors.

      • January 26, 2018 at 8:23 pm
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        The reason I brought it up is because of the big difference in Critic Scores and Fan Scores for TLJ. This has been a big topic in the media for the past month, not just internet fans as to why? You have the critics on RottenTomatoes giving it a 92% overall, and the fans giving it 54%. Something is off there, and there have been many theories as to why.

        • January 26, 2018 at 8:33 pm
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          Yes and the likely reason is that butthurt fans are storming the sites with bad user reviews bc they didn’t like the movie, or how Luke was shown or the women or the people of color, etc…

          The critics are being consistent with past Star Wars movies. The user scores are not. That is what is off.

          • January 26, 2018 at 8:37 pm
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            So your first response to me was that I was insulting the reviewers integrity because I don’t agree with them. But your second response is to insult the ‘butthurt’ fans because you don’t agree with them?
            What do you mean the critics are being consistent with past SW movies? Shouldn’t each one be looked at and reviewed differently? So I would be inconsistent if I said that ESB was better then ROTJ?
            Dude, you are all over the place with your answers as it sounds like you are the one who is ‘butthurt’ that not everyone agrees with you. Ironic!

          • January 26, 2018 at 10:01 pm
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            You misunderstand entirely, almost scarily so:

            Disliking the movie is fine. I have no issue with it.Running to try to ruin the user score on websites because you don’t like it is silly, dumb and immature. That’s the butthurt people I speak of. Not just because I disagree with them, but because of their actions.

            The critics scores have been very positive for all the new movies. They are looking at each one at a time and reviewing them differently. They just mostly happen to like them all. Your point about ESB and ROTJ is nonsense and irrelevant. You said “something is off here” and the ANOMALY, the thing that is DIFFERENT is the user score. That’s what I am pointing to. Ask why that is so off instead of why the critics score is in line with the previous movies. That makes more sense than the user score suddenly dropping.

            I hope this helped you understand it a little bit better and maybe you can apologize for that last paragraph because my answers have been quite clear and consistent on this. It sounds like you didn’t like the movie and are looking for reasons to call people who did corrupt or paid off by Disney or something infantile like that.

            Ironic.

          • January 26, 2018 at 10:33 pm
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            What evidence do you have of people running to RottenTomatoes and lowering the rating? Maybe they’re honest in their assessment of the movie?

            I can say among my friends that most loved TFA and we’re VERY divided on TLJ, so that 50% fan rating sounds exactly correct.

            The Prequels weren’t this divisive among my friends as most of us thought they were crap. TLJ is the first SW movie where we all honestly are split on liking it and not liking it.

            So you’re not going to get an apology from me cause my friends reflect the fan rating.

          • January 26, 2018 at 10:42 pm
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            Because it’s an anomaly? User scores tend to align with critics scores in cases like that, especially if you look at the past SW scores.

            Also, the small, but vocal backlash to the movie is proof that some people are deadset on this movie being seen as a failure. Twitter accounts popping up, talks of a boycott. It’s pretty evident.

            The prequels might not have been divisive among your friends, but they were this divisive online. Believe me, I was there and saw it all. Your friends are only a small segment and not representative of the entire fandom. Sorry to disappoint.

            That’s fine. It shows your character since you misunderstood me and then made allegations about what I was saying and thinking.

            But one more time: your friends are not a statistical sample of Star Wars fans.

            Fact.

          • January 26, 2018 at 11:08 pm
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            I find myself agreeing with a lot of the stuff you say, but asking for an apology with the way you respond to people……

          • January 27, 2018 at 7:46 am
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            Why should he apologize?

            People come here and post like they’re an authority on Star Wars. In their minds they believe it. The reality is it’s far from the truth.

            What you have in this forum is usually an awful case of group-think.

            Most folks posting here can’t produce an argument to counter users like Deadly when he engages with them. They get angry and frustrated.

            Suddenly he’s self-righteous and mean! You dared respond to my post where I had a superfluous opinion that I feel justified in knowing is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT because five other people here are spewing the exact same angry tripe I am!

            HOW DARE YOU GO AGAINST WHAT EVERYONE ELSE THINKS AND SOUND SMARTER THAN ME IN THE PROCESS!

            I get it all the time. Am I self-righteous? No. Because I don’t come here and tell everyone how it is, or that what I believe is the only right way for anyone else to think about whatever the topic is at hand.

            Am I condescending to people who are actually being self-righteous unconstructive whiny Dbags?

            YOU BET!

            So is Deadly. He’s even whopped me a couple of times, and I usually deserved it. I still like him.

            And I never cried about it, neither.

          • January 27, 2018 at 6:08 pm
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            I’ve not asked Deadly to apologise over anything. .

            If you read the posts he was asking for an apology off someone else. I was simply pointing out he’s as bad with the attitude as others, despite being right most of the time and its a bit rich to ask for an apology.

          • January 27, 2018 at 7:45 pm
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            His attitude isn’t bad. It’s appropriate for use with a lot of the idiots who crawl around these forums.

          • January 27, 2018 at 8:43 pm
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            Well yes, some of the people go totally overboard and can’t really blame some of the put downs for what is basically hate towards a film. His explanation was clear enough, but when you start throwing in terms like “butthurt” as well in response there’s little point asking for an apology over a previous reply. That’s why I think its a bit rich asking for one.

            These forums are great the majority of the time. I’ve been educated in Star Wars history, film production, etc. I’ve no issue with being corrected or educated, unless its down right rude. I love Star Wars, though would of done some stuff differently in the ST, but then that goes for the PT as well.

          • January 27, 2018 at 10:54 pm
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            I disagree. These forums used to be great mos of the time.

          • January 28, 2018 at 12:05 am
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            I was being positive, fear you’re right the negativity and hatred towards TLJ is overboard.

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:07 am
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            More so than TLJ.

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:57 am
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            I am doing ok. I’m not rich, though.

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:57 am
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            I am doing ok. I’m not rich, though.

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:54 am
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            Logic and reasoning are foreign to some of these people. you usually do a good job with it 🙂

            But too often emotion wins out and being an old jaded fan, emotion isn’t easy to produce in my as it once was haha.

          • January 28, 2018 at 7:37 pm
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            lol we’re dead inside.

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:57 am
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            The way I respond to people? Or the way I responded to this person who put forth a motive on me that was nowhere evident after he accused the hosts of this show of lacking integrity because their opinion of a movie did not match his?

            I am harsh with some, yes. But I try to save that for only who deserve it. I don’t always succeed. And I have apologized in the past for jumping the gun.

          • January 28, 2018 at 11:07 am
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            A bit of both.

            Though you didn’t directly aim the term “butthurt” at Dan, he is grouped amongst those fans because he clearly didn’t like TLJ. Its clear that’s the moment he feels insulted.

            I don’t mind integrity being questioned, and others have also pointed out how he is wrong. Personally I don’t see why he needs to question the reviews, all that matters is if you like a film or not. He doesn’t and needs to move on and let his disappointment go.

          • January 28, 2018 at 2:40 pm
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            I don’t include everyone who disliked it as butthurt. The people who are mounting a campaign are the ones who are butthurt.

          • January 27, 2018 at 7:39 am
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            They’re employing Russian bots LOL.

          • January 27, 2018 at 12:29 pm
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            Quick call up Sen McCarthy and see if he can look into these bots, they are everywhere

          • January 27, 2018 at 7:15 am
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            Those who hate something are more likely to talk about it than those who are content.

          • January 27, 2018 at 5:53 pm
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            I agree. I barely posted anything on here when TFA & R1 came out as I loved both those movies. Although I didn’t hate TLJ and just found it disappointing, I’ve posted a lot more about how I feel. I think probably it’s cathartic to do so.

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:52 am
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            No one rushes to Yelp to give an good review.

          • January 28, 2018 at 4:02 pm
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            Exactly, but they will rush to Rotten Tomatos to shit on the film they hate.

          • January 28, 2018 at 6:39 pm
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            Exactly.

          • January 28, 2018 at 6:44 pm
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            Exactly. Im glad we at least agree that the new films arent bad. Even if we disagree about the Aliens.

          • January 29, 2018 at 2:34 am
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            Hey, I wouldn’t mind seeing the old dudes but it’s just not an issue for me 🙂

          • January 30, 2018 at 3:14 pm
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            First go please to rotten and read any page you pleased and you will see most of the negatives comments are long and constructive while most of the not so much positive comments have 5-10 words. It almost looks that worshippers (or someone els) is going there just to avoid the score falling down

        • January 26, 2018 at 8:37 pm
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          Critics scored the movie for what it is. The fan score is lower because many long time fans didn’t like the decisions made, especially with Luke. So instead of seeing it as a movie, it is a blight that has derailed their existence, erased their childhood, ruined their ability to drink milk, and so on.

          Normal responses to a movie, you know? That’s why.

          • January 26, 2018 at 8:49 pm
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            That makes no sense because TFA didn’t do the OT characters any better, yet fans overwhelmingly liked that movie. Can you ask me how many fans wanted Han and Leia divorced after ROTJ? Can you tell me how many fans wanted Han and Leia to be a crummy parent where their son murders his father? Can you tell me how many fans wanted Luke to be in Episode 7 for all of 30 seconds? I can tell you I never thought the story would go that way, yet JJ did a great job and I enjoyed the movie.
            Again, it’s the fans fault for not liking TLJ? What a cop out. Was it the fans fault for not liking the PT? This kind of furthers my point above that there is something more to the blind defense of TLJ that I have never seen before. It is very odd.

          • January 26, 2018 at 8:49 pm
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            That makes no sense because TFA didn’t do the OT characters any better, yet fans overwhelmingly liked that movie. Can you ask me how many fans wanted Han and Leia divorced after ROTJ? Can you tell me how many fans wanted Han and Leia to be a crummy parent where their son murders his father? Can you tell me how many fans wanted Luke to be in Episode 7 for all of 30 seconds? I can tell you I never thought the story would go that way, yet JJ did a great job and I enjoyed the movie.
            Again, it’s the fans fault for not liking TLJ? What a cop out. Was it the fans fault for not liking the PT? This kind of furthers my point above that there is something more to the blind defense of TLJ that I have never seen before. It is very odd.

          • January 26, 2018 at 9:02 pm
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            I hated Starkiller Base, but I liked TFA as a whole. I wanted X, Y, and Z from Luke in TLJ, which didn’t happen. Does that mean I have to give TLJ a low score?

            Sure, there are plenty of things on the ol’ wish list, but if those things don’t happen, I can’t judge a movie based on failed expectations that I had personally.

            My opinions and views are not in charge here. I am just along for the ride.

            It is okay to like and/or dislike the movie, and neither has to resort to a blind defense or blind support. Star Wars has a passionate fanbase. That passion can bleed into anything, like throwing a whole movie out of the window because of failed expectations.

          • January 26, 2018 at 9:44 pm
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            But I think fans complaints of TLJ go way past Luke Skywalker. The complaints of the bad humor, the waste of subplot with Finn/Rose, Leia Flying, The movie probably being 1/2 hour too long. That has nothing to do with expectations, these are bad things that fans felt brought down the movie.

          • January 26, 2018 at 10:03 pm
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            There are plenty of things to look at and criticize, that’s for sure, but the expectations were higher than TFA, or any other SW film, I’d say. TFA got the masses excited about the franchise again, so it is easy to overlook a few things that were not perfect.

            However, TFA ended on a cliffhanger, leaving the entire fanbase to speculate and set expectations for the movie for two years. Most importantly, about Luke. What you said is true, some of those were misses for a lot of people, but the most divisive is the treatment of Luke, don’t you think? 30 Years of expectations. 30 Years of EU. The expectations were high. So yeah, those failed expectations are enhanced in this movie because of that.

            Luke is the catalyst for the divide.

          • January 26, 2018 at 10:28 pm
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            Sorry, but Episode 1 was the most anticipated SW film, maybe the most anticipated film ever. The hype leading up to 1999 (after a 16 year wait to the most popular Trilogy ever) is something we’ll never see again. If the expectations for TLJ were higher, it would have done as big or a bigger opening weekend gross then TFA.

          • January 26, 2018 at 10:37 pm
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            I don’t want us to confuse expectations with excitement. I agree about the hype. TPM and TFA were hype machines, but now we go back to the root of the fanbase of the original trilogy with Luke Skywalker back on screen. Enter expectations that started building in 1983.

          • January 26, 2018 at 10:46 pm
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            I have friends that still haven’t got over the sting of Episode 1. People have short memories as I heard these same arguments then.

            -Expectations were too high

            -Fans had their own story and would never be pleased

            -Fans wanted Darth Vader to be a certain way

          • January 26, 2018 at 11:06 pm
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            Is the default opinion that the prequels are bad movies? I liked them.

          • January 27, 2018 at 2:02 am
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            I like to think that there is no Default opinion, you like it or you don’t.
            Absolutely no reason to start with the 2nd grade insults if someones opinions are different

            I like them more today, than I did in November

          • January 27, 2018 at 2:46 am
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            Sorry, I am confused. What insult? We were having a good conversation…

          • January 27, 2018 at 2:49 am
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            No sir, I did not mean you at all, just referring to the overall theme of the comments.
            Truly sorry if it came off that way!!

          • January 27, 2018 at 2:52 am
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            Ah, okay. No worries. I agree wholeheartedly.

          • January 27, 2018 at 2:09 am
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            guilty as charged, I was one of the most hardened defenders of The phantom Menace, I did not want to accept the fact that a Star Wars movie could be bad.

            my recovery is one of the reasons I come here, trying to spare others of what they with be aware of very soon

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:52 am
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            See? implying they are lying to themselves the way you did.

            Some of us are already evolved past that.

          • January 26, 2018 at 11:48 pm
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            I’m not sure how you can formulate the belief that Episode I was the most anticipated SW movie ever.

            Those of my generation have waited 32 years to see the sequel to RotJ. The Force Awakens is clearly the most anticipated SW movie of all time, hence why it over performed at the box office.

            In general, prequels are less successful and used way less regular than sequels. I’m not sure I can think of a single incidence where a prequel has matched the quality of its original predecessor.

          • January 27, 2018 at 1:57 am
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            How did you know during those 32 years that there was going to be a sequel to ROTJ? Surely to build anticipation for something you have to know it’s coming? We pretty much knew we would get the PT at some point and Lucas said after ROTS that there would be no more movies. My anticipation for the ST didn’t begin until 2012 when Disney announced there would be one. Also, after the let down of the PT my expectations for the ST was tempered so from my point of view the PT was way more anticipated.

          • January 27, 2018 at 2:22 am
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            1. I never
            2. People want to know what happened next. Not what happened before
            3. The PT centred on Anakin, Obi-wan, and Padme. My generation wanted to know what happened to Han, Luke, and Leia. Those 3 characters are some of the most beloved characters in movie history
            4. After the disappointment of the PT, we were given a second chance to see a good SW movie, and from the trailers, tv-spots, etc, the movie looked like it would live up to its hype, which it did

          • January 27, 2018 at 2:38 am
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            I’m of the OT generation so I agree that I wanted to know more about Luke & Han etc. I just think there was more anticipation for the PT. I was excited when the ST was announced but I kept reminding myself what happened with the PT.

          • January 27, 2018 at 2:49 am
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            Maybe I’m just speaking for myself. That’s was my experience, based on my observations.

            I just watched The Phantom Menace teaser trailer. It started off really well, I actually had goose bumps, then the intro music kicked in, Jar Jar appeared and it nose dived from there.

          • January 27, 2018 at 1:58 am
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            I can :
            The Empire Strikes Back
            Aliens
            Terminator 2
            Star Trek 2 The Wrath of Khan
            Cap America 2 Winter Soldier
            The Dark Knight

          • January 27, 2018 at 2:04 am
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            You clearly misunderstood my comment. These are all sequels, not prequels. But yes, all those sequels you mentioned are superior to their originals, aside from Star Trek one, as I’ve never seen it.

          • January 27, 2018 at 2:06 am
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            You’re absolutely right, I misread your comment. I stand corrected

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:51 am
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            A usual state with you.

          • January 27, 2018 at 7:38 am
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            Don’t.

          • January 28, 2018 at 4:13 am
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            Star Trek the Motion Picture has a great soundtrack, but omg that movie is bad. I felt bad for most of the original crew.

          • January 28, 2018 at 7:34 pm
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            Right on.

          • January 27, 2018 at 3:38 am
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            If Episode 7 came out in 1999 instead of Episode 1, then the hype would have been like The Phantom Menace, but on Steroids.

            My point is the PT soured most fans so the hype for Episode 7 was not the same. Many fans were nervous Disney would pull a Lucas, especially BB8 being another Jar Jar.

            Trust me most of my friends were very cautious going into Episode 7 compared to never thinking Episode 1 would not live up.

            Nothing will be like the anticipation of Episode 1 simply because somewhere along the way in the past 20 years, most of us has been let down by a SW movie. We keep coming back cause it’s in our DNA, but we’re usually cautiously optimistic at best.

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:50 am
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            Waste of subplot? Hmm, disagree.

            leia flying? She was pulling herself with the Force. These are pretty bad criticisms.

          • January 27, 2018 at 1:32 am
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            Blind and outright venomous defense of the Last Jedi, you dont have to look far into these comments to see who defends this films with almost childlike, personal insults.
            Its one thing if your getting paid like RJ, to keep coming up with new excuses, its another altogether for folks who have no skin in the game to take it so personally.

          • January 27, 2018 at 7:37 am
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            I’m sorry Chris, but you’re wrong.

            The people who come here and complain about the movie and do a poor job of it in the process before screaming to the heavens how they’re not allowed to have a negative opinion on anything in Star Wars because someone dares discuss their opinion with them have always been the problem.

            I don’t see anyone saying “I love the movie! And if you don’t, you’re a complete d*ck licker!”

            I do see people repeating ad nauseam that they’re being victimized by an imaginary army of fanboys that wish their family dead for not like the film because someone replied to their post with “Well, I disagree” or worse yet! Well thought rebuttals to a usually half-assed attempt of criticizing a movie.

            Please see almost anything REAL Star Wars Fan posts.

            Post Fact World. I can usually call out who voted for which candidate for President in the US (If they’re a citizen) in the last election by how they respond to folks here.

            I’m About 90% correct when I do, too.

          • January 27, 2018 at 12:27 pm
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            The question of “did you like Last Jedi or not?” has replaced the “Trump or Hillary?” of last year.
            Most try not to even bring up the question, at least not in a polite setting. This has become a very polarizing film, and while political debates are good for Huff Po or Drudge, I dont think Disney can capitalize on this as well as the cable news outlets have

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:50 am
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            Then you hang around the wrong people.

          • January 30, 2018 at 3:06 pm
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            Because Uncle Deadly said so

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:50 am
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            Yup. Anyone who likes it is a Disney shill or being dishonest.

            The people who dislike it see the truth and the rest are sheep.

            So pardon me if I don’t give the benefit of the doubt to the deplorables.

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:48 am
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            I have been respectful of anyone who dislikes the movie until they reveal their reason for disliking it is political, such as women and POC.

            Then the gloves come off.

          • January 30, 2018 at 3:05 pm
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            Any answers tu few of us who doesn’t care the women but do care the map Luke left behind and then explained he was there so noone would ever find him? I’m talking about plot holes throughout the movie. Anything to say about it? And please avoid the childish “argument” that Pete from the kindergarten did this years ago so I’m perfectly allowed to do the same mistake today…

          • January 26, 2018 at 9:53 pm
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            It’s impossible to go into the eighth movie of a series and pretend it’s just another film. Whether you love this film or hate it its all formed through the prism of what came before.

          • January 26, 2018 at 10:14 pm
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            But it is possible to set aside your own expectations of what you think should happen.

          • January 26, 2018 at 11:03 pm
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            And a vast majority of people did. I think you are misconstruing people who dislike the film in the context of what came before with the tiny amount of people upset that their Rey or snoke theories didn’t pan out.

          • January 26, 2018 at 11:09 pm
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            Those are not mutually exclusive.

          • January 27, 2018 at 3:05 am
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            I don’t know. It seems like they are both subjected to their own opinions of what it should have been vs what it was. Two groups along the same line of thought. As if they know better than the director, or lucasfilm, etc. Maybe I am off the mark, but from the responses I have seen, it makes me think as much.

          • January 27, 2018 at 4:39 am
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            I see what you’re saying. But it’s not about knowing better than the director, it more about not being able to forget what previous happened. This is they risk they run of having such an interconnected and long running universe. You almost become a victim of your own success.

          • January 27, 2018 at 1:00 am
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            It is, but many of these expectations were set up by JJ two years ago, so the movie (TLJ) may stand on it’s own as a work of art (meaning production value, mainly) but as the second chapter of a new trilogy, it is just a mess. Please don’t ask how it is a mess, it has been answered ad nauseam. Imagine JJ passing the ball to Rian and Rian is alone in front of the Touchdown area, and suddenly he tosses the ball aside and says, “You were expecting me to score, right? Gotcha! Subverted your expectations”. So yeah, I had expectations after seeing that pass, now I know the game is lost.

          • January 27, 2018 at 1:00 am
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            It is, but many of these expectations were set up by JJ two years ago, so the movie (TLJ) may stand on it’s own as a work of art (meaning production value, mainly) but as the second chapter of a new trilogy, it is just a mess. Please don’t ask how it is a mess, it has been answered ad nauseam. Imagine JJ passing the ball to Rian and Rian is alone in front of the Touchdown area, and suddenly he tosses the ball aside and says, “You were expecting me to score, right? Gotcha! Subverted your expectations”. So yeah, I had expectations after seeing that pass, now I know the game is lost.

          • January 27, 2018 at 1:17 am
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            I know the film has flaws. You don’t have to convince me of that.

          • January 27, 2018 at 2:20 am
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            Not trying to, I too am aware that it is not a 0/10 (but neither a masterpiece)

          • January 27, 2018 at 2:55 am
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            Agreed.

          • January 27, 2018 at 5:03 am
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            Agood summary

          • January 27, 2018 at 7:32 am
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            No, please. Why don’t you explain to us how it is such a mess so we can tear apart your poorly thought out critiques that don’t make any sense.

            Or are you tired of people using your own points to beat you senseless on a internet Star Wars forum?

            Me? I never get bored of watching/doing it.

            P.S. HILARIOUS Gerry that you write “Imagine JJ passing the ball to Rian and Rian is alone in front of the Touchdown area”.

            LOL!?

            Did you just indicate that J.J. had advanced the Star Wars franchise in a positive direction?

            Because for the last two years you have stated repeatedly on these very forums how that wasn’t the case at all.

            But then you mastered hypocrisy quite quickly after starting to post here, didn’t ya.

            P.P.S. It’s called an end zone.

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:47 am
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            “Please don’t ask how it is a mess because I can’t tell you.”

          • January 27, 2018 at 1:28 am
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            Fair question, but is it too much to ask to allow the viewer to become invested in a film with their favorite characters, and not have every single dramatic moment underscored with cheap humor that falls flat?

          • January 27, 2018 at 3:13 am
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            That would have been nice. The humor was unnecessary in several spots.

          • January 30, 2018 at 2:52 pm
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            Wrong. There are mixed fanboys and no fanboys who make a review for a movie, not for beloved Star Wars. You are pretending that only hardcore fans didn’t like the movie, that’s not true at all

          • January 30, 2018 at 3:56 pm
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            The scales tell the story. Read more negative reviews.

        • January 30, 2018 at 2:49 pm
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          90 vs 49. And 49 only because strangely 0 and 1/2 stars doesn’t count! Instead 5 stars does. Not mention it’s 320 critics vs 180.000 paying moviegoers, fans and no fans mixed

        • January 30, 2018 at 2:49 pm
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          90 vs 49. And 49 only because strangely 0 and 1/2 stars doesn’t count! Instead 5 stars does. Not mention it’s 320 critics vs 180.000 paying moviegoers, fans and no fans mixed

      • January 27, 2018 at 7:08 am
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        It gets tiring after a whike being accused of being a ‘Disney Shill’ because i enjoy the films. lol ya I wish i was being paid to say nice things about disney.

        • January 27, 2018 at 7:29 am
          Permalink

          Post Fact World. Meet Trumpism in Star Wars.

          • January 27, 2018 at 12:48 pm
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            please see my post above, you may get a laugh out of it!

        • January 27, 2018 at 3:20 pm
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          Right?

    • January 26, 2018 at 8:57 pm
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      They have been going to the premieres since 2015. You have been duped.

      • January 26, 2018 at 9:17 pm
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        That makes sense because they trash the PT on their podcasts, but love TFA, R1 and TLJ.

        • January 26, 2018 at 10:37 pm
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          Ken Napzok actually is a big of the prequels. On his own SW Podcast Forcecenter him and his partners Joseph Sckrimshaw and Jennifer Landa are what they call “prequalist” you can even buy a shirt of tee public with the saying.

    • January 26, 2018 at 9:11 pm
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      I can’t read minds so I won’t say they are sucking up to Disney to keep getting invited. But I imagine it’s difficult to give an objective review of a franchise you love after going to the huge prep rally that is a premiere.

      • January 27, 2018 at 7:28 am
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        Who cares about going to a premiere if you don’t like the films.

        • January 27, 2018 at 8:28 am
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          that really cuts to the heart of the problem. since youtube critics became a thing the line between professional fan and professional critic has been significantly blurred. i have nothing against professional fans, but i can’t take you seriously as a critic if you have no objectivity. and these premieres are just a symptom of this issue. these critics are going to see their favorite franchise as fans first and then writing/filming a review after that isn’t critical, but geeking out. this is why for a while now i’ve been thinking premieres should be for cast/crew/fans only.

          • January 27, 2018 at 12:31 pm
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            RLM’s Nerd Crew calls out the hypocrisy perfectly

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:40 am
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            HAHAHAHAHA THAT HACK??? OH YOU LYING LIAR AND THE LIES YOU LIE.

      • January 28, 2018 at 1:40 am
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        Then you should go back and read reviews of Episode I.

    • January 26, 2018 at 9:24 pm
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      I don’t think it’s fair to accuse these folks of being disingenuous because they attended the movie’s premiere. For all you know, they really did enjoy it. You don’t have to agree with them, but questioning their integrity simply based on this is a bit cheap.

      • January 26, 2018 at 9:29 pm
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        But you see it all of the time on Talk Shows, etc. Jimmy Fallon or Jimmy Kimmel has a guest on to promote their movie and they say they saw it last night and loved it. What else are they going to say? Jimmy Fallon is not going to have George Clooney on his show promoting his movie and then say, “Well…I thought it was OK.”

        You could be right that they loved the movie, but they will Never be honest if they don’t because they won’t be invited to another premiere again. That’s how it works in movies, TV, politics. It is no different when a Democrat or Republican Strategist goes on TV to debate an issue as you have to be suspicious because of their allegiance.
        If these guys at Collider have become part of the Star Wars Establishment then you have to take their opinions with a grain of salt now, just like I take Hollywood Actors opinions with a grain of salt when they promote a movie and say it’s great. What else are they going to say?

        • January 26, 2018 at 10:03 pm
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          I know what you’re saying and I partly agree with you. But you’re still questioning the honesty of folks based on nothing more than their attendance at a premiere. If I’m going to be called a liar, I’d hope my accuser has something more to go on than a hunch or a sense of general distrust.

        • January 26, 2018 at 10:51 pm
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          The likes of Jimmy Kimmel are presenters. They are not critics. Their job is to create a platform that gives guests an opportunity to promote their latest project in an entertaining environment. Forming a critical view is out width the scope of their responsibility.

        • January 27, 2018 at 1:25 am
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          Jimmy Kimmel is a tough call, He is a Disney employee. These are not the days of Siskel and Ebert any more.

        • January 28, 2018 at 1:39 am
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          Um, those people are on those shows to PROMOTE those movies and the hosts are not critics. They are hoping you watch their show to see that actor and they say nice things about the actor’s movie in exchange.

          It’s not the same thing.

    • January 26, 2018 at 11:19 pm
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      The main purpose of this show is to present what’s happening in the SW universe. That’s why they are invited to premiers. They are fans first, meaning their views are more subjective than the typical critic. However, it’s my experience they are professional enough to form a rounded critique of any new SW movie.

    • January 27, 2018 at 1:23 am
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      They were, in fact before the review embargo lifted, They did a whole show about it and how well Disney treated them
      Others may argue, but credibility counts in any profession

      • January 28, 2018 at 1:38 am
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        And none of that hurts their credibility.

    • January 27, 2018 at 7:27 am
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      Where the logic fails here “Well, if they were invited to the premiere by Disney they’re just going to say how much they enjoyed the movie!” (And I know you’re not accusing them of that, but wondering if impacts it) is that if they really didn’t like the film. If they thought it was garbage..

      Why would you want to go to the next Premiere?

      It’s like if I was invited to a Fast and Furious Premiere. I wouldn’t care. I don’t want to go. Really don’t care who was there. I may take the plane ticket and hotel stay just to be in LA, but I would literally skip the film.

      It’s not like going to the Premiere has done anything for these folks careers. Their internet movie jockeys. And while I haven’t watched them consistently since prior to after TFA’s launch, the original cast were always critical of anything they didn’t like and they tore it a new A-hole.

      But yeah, they never point fingers at Disney and scream bloody murder and gibberish at them like folks do here.

    • January 28, 2018 at 7:02 pm
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      So if anyone who’s invited and gives a decent review is lacking in integrity, then the same could be said presumably for anyone who isn’t invited and gives a shitty review?
      Personally I’d like to think some people have a bit more to them than to be so easily swayed by an invite or other favour; they’re not politicians, or other such scum.

  • January 26, 2018 at 8:36 pm
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    She can start it by loving those little Jedi really hard.

  • January 26, 2018 at 8:45 pm
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    Any chance Mark Hamill had for awards consideration went out the window when Johnson made him milk the space sea cow.

    • January 26, 2018 at 8:53 pm
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      I don’t know. The face he made after taking that giant swig was pretty epic.

        • January 26, 2018 at 8:56 pm
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          I mean if that ain’t acting, I don’t know what is.

          • January 26, 2018 at 8:59 pm
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            “Alright Mark, you’re going to take your pointer and thumb and gently squeeze the milk from the nipple”

          • January 26, 2018 at 9:02 pm
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            “No. No. No. Faster, and more intense”

            Wait, that’s not Rian Johnson…

          • January 26, 2018 at 10:13 pm
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            Bwahahaha! You win +5 internet points. Great job!

          • January 26, 2018 at 10:13 pm
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            Bwahahaha! You win +5 internet points. Great job!

        • January 26, 2018 at 10:29 pm
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          Does anyone else hear (in your mind) the space cow say “don’t judge me” when it turns to look at Rey?

          • January 27, 2018 at 1:40 am
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            I do know that the face Rey makes, is one we all share

        • January 28, 2018 at 5:55 pm
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          this seems so full of midichlorians

        • January 30, 2018 at 2:26 pm
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          Still tough to watch this again….feel sorry for Mark for this…

    • January 26, 2018 at 10:23 pm
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      1. Awards for what exactly?
      2. How did the space cow scene impact his chances of winning?

    • January 27, 2018 at 2:04 am
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      maybe a new award called, ” Greatest Character Assassination in a Motion Picture”

      • January 27, 2018 at 3:13 am
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        +1 for using *classic* Cobra Commander as an avatar

        • January 27, 2018 at 12:33 pm
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          I am a simple used car salesman by day, tyrannical despot by night

      • January 28, 2018 at 1:38 am
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        Or an award for fans who never knew the character.

    • January 28, 2018 at 5:58 pm
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      can Luke skywalker milk a cow, pleeease. he can´t be solene all the time.

  • January 27, 2018 at 12:29 am
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    If you were disappointed with “The Last Jedi”, simply reply “Yes” in the comment thread directly beneath this request — I’m taking a tally (for the sake of my own curiosity). Thanks in advance for your input.

    • January 27, 2018 at 12:56 am
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      Yep

    • January 27, 2018 at 1:16 am
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      Yes

    • January 27, 2018 at 1:18 am
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      Yes

    • January 27, 2018 at 2:03 am
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      Yes

    • January 27, 2018 at 3:08 am
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      Yes…and no.

    • January 27, 2018 at 3:08 am
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      YES

      – REAL Star Wars Fan

      • January 27, 2018 at 7:01 am
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        Are you a REAL Star Wars Fan by chance?

        • January 27, 2018 at 5:05 pm
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          Prod him and see if he’s just an apparition.

    • January 27, 2018 at 7:47 am
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      YESSSSSSS!!!!!

    • January 27, 2018 at 7:59 am
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      Yes.

    • January 27, 2018 at 3:56 pm
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      Aye.

    • January 27, 2018 at 6:44 pm
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      Yes

    • January 27, 2018 at 8:04 pm
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      Sadly yes.

    • January 27, 2018 at 9:09 pm
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      YES

    • January 27, 2018 at 9:09 pm
      Permalink

      YES

    • January 28, 2018 at 1:14 am
      Permalink

      Yes

    • January 30, 2018 at 1:52 pm
      Permalink

      Yes

    • January 31, 2018 at 3:20 pm
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      Yes

  • January 27, 2018 at 1:12 am
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    The subject of credibility in film criticism was mentioned earlier today in this forum, so I felt the need to share something I love. If you respect Roger Ebert’s code of integrity, this article is a good read, and you can match up his rules with the behavior of any critic whom you might sense is behaving in a suspect manner.

    https://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/rogers-little-rule-book

    P.S.
    You don’t necessarily have to agree with his reviews to at least admire his standards of professionalism.

    • January 27, 2018 at 2:38 am
      Permalink

      He really liked The Force Awakens:

      https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/star-wars-episode-vii—the-force-awakens-2015

      This TESB interview back in 1980 is really interesting. One could compare it to The Last Jedi debate:

      Roger Ebert: These are the sort of movies Disney should be making, and the kind that Disney made 30 years ago… Whether this film is good or not, it’s excitable, it made me laugh, it made me, it made me thrilled, and that’s what a movie like this is for.

      https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/14/10125494/Star-wars-critics-ebert-siskel

      Would loved to have had his take on The Last Jedi, but judging by his viewpoint on The Empire Strikes Back, and The Force Awakens, I can’t help thinking it would have been of a positive nature.

    • January 27, 2018 at 2:38 am
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      He really liked The Force Awakens:

      https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/star-wars-episode-vii—the-force-awakens-2015

      This TESB interview back in 1980 is really interesting. One could compare it to The Last Jedi debate:

      Roger Ebert: These are the sort of movies Disney should be making, and the kind that Disney made 30 years ago… Whether this film is good or not, it’s excitable, it made me laugh, it made me, it made me thrilled, and that’s what a movie like this is for.

      https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/14/10125494/Star-wars-critics-ebert-siskel

      Would loved to have had his take on The Last Jedi, but judging by his viewpoint on The Empire Strikes Back, and The Force Awakens, I can’t help thinking it would have been of a positive nature.

      • January 27, 2018 at 2:50 am
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        He died in 2013 but his wife keeps his website going with a rotating band of contributing reviewers. The TFA review was by Matt Zoller Seitz — easy mistake.

        I love the ESB vid, as well as all of their prequel reviews, if I can find ’em. Thanks for that.

        • January 27, 2018 at 2:54 am
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          I should have known that.

          I really enjoyed “Life Itself”. Really sad what happened to him in the end.

  • January 27, 2018 at 3:16 am
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    How about instead of Rey restarting the Jedi Order, Disney restarts the sequel trilogy? And pretends that every single one of these new characters (with the exception of Kylo) never existed?

      • January 27, 2018 at 7:20 am
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        HEY! THAT’S MY LINE!

    • January 27, 2018 at 7:23 am
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      HEY! REAL STAR WARS FAN!

      Why didn’t you ever reply to my post about with Lucas explaining the Prequel and Original Trilogy after you said you didn’t remember him doing that?

      Just wondering.

    • January 27, 2018 at 6:54 pm
      Permalink

      Zzzz, there comes the real sw troll again

      • January 28, 2018 at 1:09 am
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        ZZZZZZZZZ to your ZZZZZZZZ, u ar so boring with your ZZZZZZZZ.

        • January 28, 2018 at 5:52 pm
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          you bore me, i bore you

    • January 27, 2018 at 9:08 pm
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      Correct Sir!

    • January 27, 2018 at 10:37 pm
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      No,because I loved ep VII e VIII

    • January 28, 2018 at 1:37 am
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      How about your mom and dad restart you?

      • January 28, 2018 at 7:36 pm
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        How about his dad just jerks into an old sock and throws it in the bin?

        • January 28, 2018 at 8:27 pm
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          i know his comments are super annoying, but can we raise the level of discourse just a tad?

          • January 28, 2018 at 10:11 pm
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            OK. Point taken.

    • January 28, 2018 at 8:12 pm
      Permalink

      How about you walk into traffic?

  • January 27, 2018 at 12:46 pm
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    the change.org petition to have Ep 8 removed from canon, is now only 6000 signatures from 100,000. Imagine if it goes before Trump and he gets final say;
    “were going to have good Star Wars again, the best Star Wars, because Americans know Star Wars, Star Wars will be better than ever, we are going to make Star Wars Great Again!”

    Just kidding, calm down everyone
    OK i’m done with the political jokes

    • January 27, 2018 at 12:59 pm
      Permalink

      That Change.org petition kind of confirms the no.1 reason why this movie divided the audience. Rian Johnson took the Gary Stu out of the Gary Stu, and made him so much more:

      “Episode VIII was a travesty. It completely destroyed the legacy of Luke Skywalker and the Jedi. It destroyed the very reasons most of us, as fans, liked Star Wars. This can be fixed. Just as you wiped out 30 years of stories, we ask you to wipe out one more, the Last Jedi. Remove it from canon, push back Episode IX and re-make Episode VIII properly to redeem Luke Skywalker’s legacy, integrity, and character.”

      #Ignitethegreen

      • January 27, 2018 at 5:08 pm
        Permalink

        OK i admit I didn’t know what a “Gary Stu” was, so I looked it up. Correct me if I’m wrong, but a “Gary Stu” is meant to be a term to bring attention to a sexist term “Mary Sue”. One being for men the other women.
        But I dont see how Luke is a mary sue, should we list all the things he overcame during the OT? During the Force Awakens many called Rey the mary sue, but not me. I assumed that there was a grand plan in place, that would show how she is almost invincible. The force itself had chosen her. (maybe through Plageus or even Palpatine, I still hope JJ can bring that about, with all the clues he dropped)

        • January 27, 2018 at 7:49 pm
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          My thoughts exactly. I didn’t even know what a Mary Sue was until TFA came out. When I found out I was embarrassed that so called Star Wars fans would act like that. I was expecting an explanation for Reys skills to be forthcoming in TLJ and was concerned when there wasn’t one. Like you I’m keeping my fingers crossed for IX.

          • January 28, 2018 at 2:06 am
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            and dont give up hope that Finn’s defection may also have been “pushed” by the Force. Not for him to be a Jedi, per say, but definitely a friend and protector to Rey

        • January 27, 2018 at 8:43 pm
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          I think she is a product of the force. Her ‘parents’ found her on Jakku, then exploited her the first chance they could get.

          That cave scene in The Last Jedi, where we see many iterations of her, it’s very Bodhisattva. Like the illustration in Joseph Campbells “The Hero With a Thousand Faces”, we see the Bodhisattva with all their previous incarnations behind them, just like Rey. It’s symbolic of the cycles that the force produce.

          Also, in the cave scene, where we think we’re about to see the reveal of Rey’s parents, it’s interesting that the shadow figures we see look remarkably like Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver’s silhouettes.

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c767eef8ce3f7f08e113d963d60afe5584e000f0a5851d0db01f6936938cb4bb.png

          • January 28, 2018 at 2:03 am
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            I thought it sort of resembled Neo from the matrix, when the Architect tells him hes not the first and he wont be the last, Something created to maintain a sense of order.
            All the versions of Rey the force had an influence in creating.

          • January 28, 2018 at 1:11 pm
            Permalink

            Sounds very similar. Before Rey, was Anakin. Before Anakin, was …

      • January 27, 2018 at 10:36 pm
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        Zzzzzz omg SW fans are the most boring people of universe

      • January 28, 2018 at 5:47 am
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        “I have a dream.”

      • January 28, 2018 at 8:06 pm
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        LOL I know right.

    • January 27, 2018 at 7:44 pm
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      i think politics might actually be less divisive then star wars at this moment. lol #empirefirst

    • January 27, 2018 at 7:44 pm
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      i think politics might actually be less divisive then star wars at this moment. lol #empirefirst

      • January 27, 2018 at 8:23 pm
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        World leaders come and go. Star Wars is forever.

      • January 28, 2018 at 3:41 am
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        You’re talking about the two as if they’re mutually exclusive.
        When Disney politicized the hell out of the sequel trilogy.

      • January 28, 2018 at 3:41 am
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        You’re talking about the two as if they’re mutually exclusive.
        When Disney politicized the hell out of the sequel trilogy.

        • January 28, 2018 at 4:04 am
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          I think we need to employ Occam’s razor here. What’s more likely: an sjw conspiracy to inject propaganda into star wars or KK and iger trying to maximize profits by appealing to the largest possible audience?

          You got to remember, whatever their personal politics their first and foremost job is to make money.

          • January 28, 2018 at 4:21 am
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            They aimed for and achieved both. Injecting leftwing propaganda and maximizing profits.

          • January 28, 2018 at 5:04 am
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            ok, lets try this: what is to be gained by potentially alienating a good chuck of your customers? its all risk and no reward. no business in their right mind would operate in such a fashion.

          • January 28, 2018 at 5:41 am
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            From TPTB’s point of view, there were larger considerations then just having good box office numbers.

          • January 31, 2018 at 3:12 pm
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            Exactly why I dont believe KK forced any political views into these films, I tend to think she is way over her head and it shows

          • January 28, 2018 at 7:58 pm
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            So you are a Trump supporter. No wonder you sound like a complete fucking tool in all your posts.

          • January 28, 2018 at 8:22 pm
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            you have literally zero evidence to support your hypothesis beyond your own opinion.

          • January 28, 2018 at 7:59 pm
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            No, he lives in an insular selfish world.

            The only person that matters is him. He’s mad Disney didn’t give him a white heterosexual male protagonist.

          • January 28, 2018 at 7:59 pm
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            No, he lives in an insular selfish world.

            The only person that matters is him. He’s mad Disney didn’t give him a white heterosexual male protagonist.

          • January 28, 2018 at 8:25 pm
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            i was leaning toward him being just a very dedicated troll, but he does seem to like to frequent infowars so you are probably right.

          • January 28, 2018 at 8:56 pm
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            LOL. Shocker.

          • January 30, 2018 at 12:51 pm
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            I cant tell if this is a joke or not.

            You seem pretty spot on with your posts, so I will assume it is. LOL good one

          • February 1, 2018 at 1:30 am
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            Another white guy pissed at diversity in Star Wars. LOL.

          • February 1, 2018 at 1:30 am
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            Another white guy pissed at diversity in Star Wars. LOL.

        • January 29, 2018 at 3:26 pm
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          How did they do that? By putting more women in it?

    • January 28, 2018 at 1:36 am
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      People who never understood what makes Star Wars great can’t make it great again.

      Just like Trump and America.

      • January 28, 2018 at 3:02 am
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        Exactly. In order to get back on track, you have to know where you started going in the first place.

        Disney though, they went so far off the rails with TLJ that the franchise is now falling into the bottom of a canyon like Wil E. Coyote.

        Now honestly, I don’t know if there’s any fixing this sucker.

        • January 28, 2018 at 5:37 am
          Permalink

          There’s not. But somewhere down the line, we’ll get a Star Wars movie that doesn’t suck and then people will be all “See. Told you so.” But TLJ sucks so bad, that Ep.9 will already start with a broken back, missing teeth, and blind.

          • January 28, 2018 at 5:52 am
            Permalink

            This was essentially what happened with TLJ. TFA sucked so bad that it handicapped the film from the get go with shitty characters that nobody cared about. Take the protaganist, Rey, for example. What did the audience have emotionally invested in her after the events in TFA? Absolutely nothing. She was boring, had no arc, was never in any real danger, and was gifted with everything Luke had to earn.

          • January 29, 2018 at 3:25 pm
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            Yet she is super popular, which means you are…wrong. As ever.

          • January 29, 2018 at 3:25 pm
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            Yet she is super popular, which means you are…wrong. As ever.

        • January 28, 2018 at 2:42 pm
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          No, I mean the FANS like you who are acting like this is an affront to Star Wars.

          You clearly, based on you comments, don’t know what made Star Wars great in the first so you can’t t possibly know what will make it great again (spoilers: it’s great right now.)

          It doesn’t need fixing. You need to take a good long hard look at what you think Star wars.

          • January 29, 2018 at 5:22 am
            Permalink

            Please enlighten us all on what made Star Wars great.

          • January 29, 2018 at 5:22 am
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            Please enlighten us all on what made Star Wars great.

          • January 29, 2018 at 5:56 am
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            A generational saga that centers on the young generation fixing the mistakes of the older. Luke corrected Obi-Wan and Yoda’s mistakes, Rey is correcting Luke and Han and Leia’s.

            People who never understood Luke’s actions in ROTJ think this movie is offensive. They never understood that when he threw his weapon away, that’s the moment he became a Jedi.

            He took himself out of the fight then, with the faith that Vader would turn.

            He did it again this time, with the hope that someone else would bring back the Jedi in a way he can’t.

            And he was rewarded both times. That’s what makes Star Wars great.

          • January 29, 2018 at 6:53 am
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            When you say things like that, it makes me question whether you do drugs.

          • January 29, 2018 at 7:20 am
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            I disagree, although fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinion on why Star Wars is great.

            If you asked me as a kid, I would have said that Star Wars for me was epic Space Battles and LIghtsaber duels, that they were my two favourite things about it, and I don’t feel we got either of those things in The Last Jedi.

            As an adult, I then appreciated the effort George Lucas went into in having Luke’s journey mirroring the work of Joseph Campbell and the ‘Hero’s Journey’, and I suspect that is a big reason why Star Wars is so important to so many people, because it touches us on levels we don’t fully understand.

            I feel like Luke’s journey veered way off course.

            Luke was enlightened after ROTJ, but not in the ST. That didn’t ring true to me. I can accept Luke making the mistake, in the moment, of igniting his lightsaber to kill Ben. Maybe. But I can’t accept him running off and hiding like that, and making things far worse.

            I disagree with your statement that Luke took himself out of the fight ‘with the hope that someone else would bring back the jedi in a way he can’t’. I think you’re drawing a pretty long bow there. Luke denounces the jedi, says it’s time for them to end, and tells Rey he came there to die. That’s not a strategic move. That’s ‘screw everyone, I’m done trying’. That’s not the Luke I know.

            Han Solo was depressed about his relationship with Leia and Ben, but he didn’t give up. I can’t believe Luke would have given up.

            I think there is a lot to like about the movie, and in many ways it’s a great film, but it didn’t really feel like a Star Wars movie to me for most of it. That’s my opinion though.

          • January 29, 2018 at 3:24 pm
            Permalink

            The lightsabers and other stuff also make it great, but I am talking about what made it transcend like few other movies have.

            Johnson has said as much: Luke thinks the Jedi need to die so it can be born anew. Killing religion to get back to God is the point. He didn’t give up. He thought this was the best way.

            Luke comes from the tainted line of Jedi. Rey does not. Now, it can start over, free of that taint.

        • January 28, 2018 at 7:47 pm
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          Hey REAL Star Wars Fan.

          Reply to my post where I provided you with video footage of Lucas explaining his decisions in Star Wars over and over again.

          Even though you said he never did that.

  • January 27, 2018 at 8:53 pm
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    Whatever she does, it’ll be without struggle and instantly great! 🙂

    • January 27, 2018 at 9:07 pm
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      She might get a small cut on her cheek! OH NO!

      • January 28, 2018 at 12:04 am
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        Or a slap on the side of the head with a lightsaber and then pushed around the room a little.

  • January 27, 2018 at 8:53 pm
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    something i’d like to get y’alls thoughts on: the current nature of the force as it stands after the last jedi.

    there was a line in film that basically said the force will always raise someone up to battle the dark. might have been snoke who said it, i don’t remember. anyway, this situation i think really undermines the narrative, let me explain. the force as we know it as a concept has been evolving since obi wan first told luke about it in 1977. back then it was just a nebulous concept that seemed more inert until used by a jedi or sith. then we got the more symbiotic relationship in the prequels in which the force was given a more scientific explanation which was subsequently walked back. now the force seems like an active agent in the galaxy almost to the point of being a deity. now i don’t have a problem with change in and of itself, but circling back to my main point i feel like the force being directly involved in the plot is harmful. for example, luke and leia were the last hopes because the jedi were wiped out and their father was a powerful jedi which meant they could be too. this it made them special, but it also made the situation precarious. if they die, the cause is lost. fast forward to the last jedi and they seem to indicate to me that if Rey fails, then someone else, perhaps broom boy, will be elevated to take her place. nothing special about her and no sense of doom if she fails. the force has made her expendable. it also makes me feel like the force has chosen a side. in all the films and in the mortis episode of CW it always was displayed as a battle between the two sides of the force: light and dark, but now it seems like light and dark are two separate things, not different sides of the same coin. this could just be due a lack of explanation of the darkside of the force in the ST films. but my point is, the more they expand on the nature of the force, the more i feel like it hurts the storytelling, particularly the characters.

    anyways, what do you think about how the force has evolved since the OT and do you think this direction works or no?

    • January 27, 2018 at 11:31 pm
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      Zzzzzzz

      • January 27, 2018 at 11:49 pm
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        you’re giving real star wars fan a run for his money in least worth while contributions to the board.

      • January 28, 2018 at 1:35 am
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        What a rude and unneeded response.

    • January 28, 2018 at 1:07 am
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      I always looked at the Force as god given ability no different then athletes. Tom Brady and Lebron James would have Skywalker blood.

      I don’t think the PT contradicts the OT because the Jedi order were looking for force sensitive kids like Anakin to recruit.

      The OT was different because Obiwan and Yoda were in hibernation so they waited for Luke and eventually Leia to defeat Vader and The Emperor. They were not trying to establish a new Jedi Order, they were just trying to defeat the Empire.

      The ST is more like the PT in that Rey should start a new Jedi Order, but an updated Jedi Order. I am Catholic but I wish they would evolve on certain issues like Birth Control in 2018. That is my take on the ST is evolving the mistakes of the PT and OT.

      • January 28, 2018 at 1:43 am
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        thank you for the reply. i guess what i mean is less about the jedi specifically and more about how the force in general is portrayed and how it impacts the story. going from mystical and unseen in the OT to scientific and tangible in the PT and then to something almost god-like in the ST. its a very interesting evolution of the concept.

        • January 28, 2018 at 1:48 am
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          interesting take on how each series of films defines the Force, never looked at it like that before, but definitely lines up that way doesn’t it

      • January 28, 2018 at 1:25 pm
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        I think Yoda and Obi-Wan knew that Luke and Leia were the ONLY people who could stop Vader, no other force sensitives would get near him or Palpatine, There was good in Vader and Luke brought the good out in him which in the end stopped the Sith, That’s why Yoda says “there is another” when talking about “our last hope” as only Luke or Leia could stop Vader and they were the ONLY ones Vader would let in, Even Palpatine could not resist trying to turn Luke rather than kill him immediately. There were certainly thousands of force sensitives throughout the galaxy during that time but if Yoda or Obi-Wan had trained them they would have been destroyed by Vader in a heartbeat.

        I don’t think the Force decided this but fate did, this particular battle was far smaller than dark v light, it was father and child.

    • January 28, 2018 at 2:23 am
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      ive been thinking of your question for a while now, will try to give my take.

      I was thinking of something I learned long ago regarding Christianity during the Dark Ages and briefly into the renaissance. During that period books were hand written, and hand copied. and very expensive, so the wealthy were generally the only ones who could read or write. with the exception of the Priests, who needed to learn to read to be able to give their sermons.

      The Christian priests were not allowed to raise a family of their own, while other major religions were. So those people passed on their knowledge of reading and writing to their own children and so on and so on,

      Fast forward a few hundred years and you get a stagnant culture filled with superstitions and literal witch hunts.

      Did the Jedi, with their dogmatic views of family, suffer the same fate? Is the Force a zero sum balance, where there is a finite supply, and that balance beam constantly swings back and forth, light to dark? Did Snoke possess a greater grasp of the Force because Luke shut himself out? would he have been so powerful if Luke kept his connection?

      Ok my rambling is over, you raised a very good question, and I hope my attempt to answer makes some sense

      • January 28, 2018 at 3:10 am
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        i think thats a very solid analogy. i’ve also been thinking those questions for awhile and they really cut the heart of the discussion. you could also ask, did the darkside raise up snoke and/or ben because of the deaths of palpatine and vader or was it as you ask because luke cut himself off? is the force inherently light or is it like the bendu and always in the middle? will it always balance itself? does it want balance at all?

        • January 28, 2018 at 3:14 am
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          maybe the Force needs conflict?
          I would like to think the Force can choose its light and dark wielders, rather than a microscopic organism.

          • January 28, 2018 at 3:26 am
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            that sounds a lot like the mortis arc. the daughter and son forcing anakin and ahsoka to fight each other. but if that is a more accurate description of the force then it seems less like yin and yang and more like god and the devil. meaning that the light and dark are two separate things.

            this whole discussion makes me wish they covered the dark side more in the films.

          • January 31, 2018 at 12:30 pm
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            I plan on revisiting Clone Wars right after I watch the PT again.
            Some really good stuff in there

    • January 30, 2018 at 4:10 pm
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      Snoke simply says “Darkness rises and Light to meet it.”

      he doesn’t say what you say and it’s just his opinion. He is being theatrical.

  • January 27, 2018 at 10:35 pm
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    She could Rey-start de order

  • January 28, 2018 at 12:00 am
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    Is that a yes?

    • January 28, 2018 at 1:44 am
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      id say so

    • January 28, 2018 at 1:44 am
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      id say so

  • January 28, 2018 at 5:16 am
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    I think you should go fuck yourself… cunt.

  • January 28, 2018 at 12:58 pm
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    Same could be said for those who blindly love TLJ

  • January 31, 2018 at 6:54 am
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    look at these people….still in denial…..

    • January 31, 2018 at 12:29 pm
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      You have to give them time, most of them already are beginning to realize what they felt when walking out of the theater.
      Name calling sometimes helps them cope.

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