J.J. Abrams and Adam Driver talk about Kylo Ren

KylohelmetArticles by LATimes and Entertainment Weekly  give us new insights on Kylo Ren, the fiery tempered villain of the Sequel Trilogy.

 

SPOILERS AHEAD!

 

 

Since the eyes are an important theme in The Force Awakens, Adam Driver reveals some interesting facts about the costume.

The eyes were a thing that J.J. [Abrams, the film’s director] and I talked about early. I thought what was so great about the [Darth] Vader mask was how you projected your emotions onto him, and you could see his eyes. I was kind of nervous that in being fully cloaked, you have to really rely on the power of thought, and that it’s powerful enough that it will get through being concealed. Then J.J. actually took out the eyes out of the mask, to make it a void, which I thought was really interesting.

But not only the “void” tells us something about his character.

The costume really says a lot about him before he says anything. [Kylo Ren’s] helmet is unpolished and unfinished. It’s not refined. It’s shiny in parts and reflects back what it sees. These are all metaphors that you can’t really play, but it’s good information. His lightsaber, you got the sense that it was homemade, and it could spontaneously combust at any minute. It didn’t really seem like it was really reliable.

kylo-ren

About the “point of view” and the ambiguity of good vs. evil.

It’s two sides of people that think they’re right. That’s just something that J.J. and I talked about from the very beginning. Just being evil for the sake of it didn’t seem interesting to play. The idea of two sides thinking that they’re both right, both sides kind of commit this mass murder. You have the Death Star [that was destroyed] and all the people that were on there, they all had families and things like that. The line between the light and the dark is very fine, I’d say.

And then there are those new informations about the Knights of Ren:

So who are the Knights of Ren?

It was a group that existed before him, that he was a part of. Their place within everything is maybe more of a satellite group than I would say … This is really tricky.

Is that why everything that you have is a bit broken down?

No, there’s definitely a history that you see in the costume of things in the past right away. They’re kind of like visible scars, on his outfit. In part to intimidate but also because he’s carrying along this history of people.

 

Read the full article on LATimes.com

 

Knights of Ren

Entertainment Weekly interviewed JJ Abrams about Kylo Ren and the motivation for a particular scene.

It would have been easy to develop a new villain just with a new look, mask or cape, but Kasdan and Abrams took a different path:

Star Wars had the greatest villain in cinema history. So, how you bring a new villain into that world is a very tricky thing,” Abrams told the crowd. “We knew we needed to do something f—king bold. The only reason why Kylo Ren has any hope of being a worthy successor is because we lose one of the most beloved characters.”

This is not about just the shock, it mirrors the ending of Return of the Jedi. The Skywalker family has a history of believing “there is still good in him”.

It’s a crushing moment that comes as Solo, at the behest of the boy’s mother, Leia, reaches out in the hope of finding something good inside the son who has already hurt so many others. The boy had already chosen a new name and a new fate after joining the monstrous Knights of Ren — but the slaying of his father is the final step in his transformation.

KyloRen

So maybe his failure at Starkiller Base, weakened by Chewbacca, Finn and Rey mirrors that moment on Bespin, when Luke lost against Darth Vader and knew he had to complete his training.

“Long before we had this title, the idea of The Force Awakens was that this would become the evolution of not just a hero, but a villain,” Abrams said. “And not a villain who was the finished, ready-made villain, but someone who was in process.”

Weeks ago Abrams hypothesized about the Anti-Luke in Entertainment Weekly. So maybe the new trilogy might focus on the process of becoming a villain.

“It’s this massive tradeoff,” Abrams said of Han Solo’s death. “How can we possibly do that!? But… if we hadn’t done that, the movie wouldn’t have any guts at all. It felt very dangerous.”

For Michael Arndt, Kylo Ren was an ideal way to separate the Big 3 after Return of the Jedi.

“In my early drafts, my thinking was we had to bridge the end of Return of the Jedi to what happens in this movie, and we didn’t want everybody to start off all together. We wanted them to be spread all throughout the galaxy,” Arndt said.

The problem was, Return of the Jedi concluded with such a robust happily-ever-after that the writers of The Force Awakens had to find a way to undo that.

“We came up with a backstory that Luke had a pupil who turned against him and fought him, and killed all the other pupils, and that was a thing that exploded the family and destroyed Han and Leia’s relationship,” Arndt said.

Han Leia Hug

But he didn’t plan Han’s death.

“I had thought Han’s story and Leia’s story was just about them coming back together. At the end of the movie they would have reconciled and gotten over their differences. And you would have said, ‘Okay, bad stuff happened, but at least they’re back together again,” Arndt said. “J.J. rightly asked, ‘What is Han doing in this movie?’ If we’re not going to have something important and irreversible happen to him, then he kind of feels like luggage. He feels like this great, sexy piece of luggage you have in your movie. But he’s not really evolving. He’s not really pushing the story forward.”[…]

Abrams said his fears about taking such an extreme measure were assuaged by Kasdan’s enthusiasm for the idea. “You wrote some of the greatest lines that Han ever spoke, so there was a level of comfort in the danger,” Abrams told him. “You were willing to go there, which made me feel like it wasn’t necessarily the worst idea.”

 

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217 thoughts on “J.J. Abrams and Adam Driver talk about Kylo Ren

  • December 21, 2015 at 11:51 pm
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    I really like the idea that the force awakens works both ways and that we also witnessed the birth of a new vader… great post, thanks!

    • December 22, 2015 at 12:25 am
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      VIII will be very interesting as it won’t only just be the training of a light-side user with Rey and Luke but also of the dark-side with Kylo and Snoke.

      We’re getting interesting mirror images.

    • December 22, 2015 at 2:22 am
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      There will never be another Vader. You failed right there. Don’t put this dude in the same sentence as Vader EVER again.

      • December 22, 2015 at 3:55 am
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        lol, you have a point, but why be such a jerk about it?

        • December 22, 2015 at 4:10 am
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          Just trying to be truthful

          • December 22, 2015 at 4:12 am
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            fair enough

      • December 23, 2015 at 2:54 am
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        We can’t put Kylo Ren and Darth Vader in the same sentence? Ever?

        But we can put these two Star Wars bad guys, Kylo and Vader, in the same comma clause though, right?

        Otherwise, where will we put Kylo and Vader? 🙂

  • December 21, 2015 at 11:59 pm
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    I absolutely love where they went with the Kylo story line. He is an excellent villain and I can’t wait to see more!

    • December 22, 2015 at 2:22 am
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      shame he is useless at fighting

      • December 22, 2015 at 5:58 am
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        He’ll get better! He’ll get better! ;P

        • December 22, 2015 at 6:48 pm
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          Ha. Maybe. But I’ll never find out, because I would rather drink acid than watch Rey Cena again.

  • December 22, 2015 at 12:07 am
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    What a fcking tragic, fascinating character.
    And that bridge scene…….heartbreaking.

    • December 22, 2015 at 12:43 am
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      And it’s very true, besides. Writing 101 indicates that you don’t kill characters needlessly. You do it when their demise will help to move the plot forward and/or when the character has spent his/her usefulness.

      IMO, Han was still useful (as proven by his role on the film), but his death definitely moves Kylo’s thread forward and raises the stakes greatly.

      • December 22, 2015 at 3:29 am
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        Finn and Poe will take up Han’s role in the films.

        Whats interesting is that the decision to kill Obi-Wan was on-the-spot during filming. I wonder if Lucas would have done something decisive like that later in his career.

        • December 22, 2015 at 4:00 am
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          Yes, but this was a creative choice; it wasn’t necessary if the trio of Arndt, Kasdan and Abrams had chosen to go in another direction. Finn was instrumental in giving Rey a little push in the right direction, but Poe could’ve easily died in the TIE fighter crash landing (as the audience is led to believe at first) and maybe Han could’ve led the assault on Starkiller base or even Lando or Wedge (if Billy Dee Williams was brought back and/or if Dennis Lawson had wanted to come back).

          Lucas did this sacrificial lamb thing wonderfully with Obi-Wan, I agree, and he also got it right a second time with Qui-Gon in the PT, IMO.

          • December 22, 2015 at 5:50 am
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            Good point about qui-gon and obi-wan analog. I never thought about that parallel. Regarding the pt, i loved quI-gon, who represented the jedi order of old so completely. However, it may have made the pt much more interesting and dramatic by bypassing qui-gon and using dooku instead to find anakin and ultimately defeat darth maul in combat, spanning dooku as a consistent character across the pt trilogy. That duel could have triggered dooku’s fall to the darkside and by early association tainted anakin early on as a child sowing the seeds of his turn to the dark side later on.

          • December 22, 2015 at 8:18 am
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            Yeah, seems like the mentor figure dying in the first film of a new SW trilogy has become sort of an unwritten rule. It’s also a classic trope in the Hero’s Journey, (even if the mentor comes back later in one form or another), and I think Lucas, Abrams and Kasdan managed to pull it off beautifully in SW. Abrams is 100% right when he says that, w/o Han’s demise at his son’s hands, TFA wouldn’t have had any guts at all.

            As for Dooku, I would’ve loved to see more of Christopher Lee (RIP) in that role, but I believe Qui-Gon’s death was instrumental to Dooku’s fall to the dark side. IDK if this was explained in the old EU novels, but I’m sure Sidious must’ve turned Dooku into his new apprentice after Dooku tried to avenge Qui-Gon’s death. It would’ve been great to see this play out onscreen, though. McDiarmid and Lee going at it face to face in a battle of wills and Force abilities could’ve been epic!

          • December 22, 2015 at 10:45 am
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            i think if Lucas had continued directing he would not have lost his touch the prequel got better as he went along

          • December 22, 2015 at 6:39 pm
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            They sure did. But was that the result of the story’s natural progression, or was Lucas really getting back in shape as a director? After all, we all had a pretty good idea of where the story was headed and RotS had to include some epic stuff (the Jedi purge, Obi-Wan vs. Anakin, the rise of the Empire, etc.)

    • December 22, 2015 at 2:08 am
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      I totally agree with you about Han. He felt like luggage or baggage. He was just there. He didn’t push the story forward, but he was necessary to evoke Kylo Ren’s story. To show us, the audience, that there is no coming back for Kylo. He is truly one with the dark side now.

  • December 22, 2015 at 12:13 am
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    I love the whole idea that he has to resist the temptation of the light. And by killing Han he prooves he could do what Vader could not by casting aside compassion.

    • December 22, 2015 at 12:36 am
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      I think Kylo Ren has the light side in him because he grew up Ben Solo and loving his mother and father. One could argue he also loved his uncle, Luke Skywalker. Along the way, he trains with Luke, since Luke was ordered by Yoda to pass on his teaching, and in the middle or in the very early stages of it, he encounters Snoke, who seduces him to the dark side. Kylo kills the other Jedis Luke was training to become one with the dark side, but because of his past life as Ben Solo and the emotions he had very early on with his parents and uncle, he still struggles. What I think Kylo Ren is trying to become is the new Sith Lord. With the teachings of Snoke, he might just accomplish this. Snoke, as far as we know, isn’t a Sith Lord so he isn’t necessarily a true Sith. He only knows the Dark Side, which is also something cool that I would like to see explored. How does he know? What I think overall is happening is the force has awakened after being gone for a long time and due to inactivity. Both the light and dark side. That is until Rey and Kylo Ren train. Kylo isn’t exactly a master of the force as seen by his defeat to Rey. After Ben turned on Luke, Luke stopped training and thus became the last Jedi Master. The force went dormant after years of not being used. Since Luke felt responsible for Ben Solo going dark, he stopped training others and went into exile. That is until Rey found him. Kylo Ren and Rey will be the main antagonist and protagonist of this new trilogy and both will end up fighting sometime in the future when they’re both fully trained. Luke and Snoke will also fight and one of those two will die. Such excitement for a Star Wars fan to speculate on what’s coming next!!! Can’t wait!!

      • December 22, 2015 at 12:49 am
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        It seems like it would take just as much guts to betray your teacher and kill your companions as it would to kill one’s father.

      • December 22, 2015 at 4:01 am
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        yeah, but they never once mention Sith, only the Dark side. Maz does mention Sith, but in a way that informs the audience that the Sith are part of the past. To bring them into play just diminshes the story of the OT (and PT).

        • December 22, 2015 at 5:33 am
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          You’re right, they don’t. But Snoke might be trying to revive that order as well since they were destroyed when Vader himself was killed when he killed Palpatine. The Force Awakened in Rey and in Kylo. The Jedi and Sith will be back and they will have different rules to their orders. At least I know the Jedi order will have different rules. Maybe. Just speculation on my part of course. This could totally be wrong.

          • December 22, 2015 at 6:50 am
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            I think the Force awoke in Rey, but Kylo has something already brewing. I personally don’t think it will be Sith that returns anytime soon and Jedi are, or should be evolving, so would naturally require new opposition in order for the evolution to continue. My two cents.

    • December 22, 2015 at 12:48 am
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      R e v e r s a l s . . . . . . .

  • December 22, 2015 at 12:21 am
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    I just think it’s funny that if Kylo Ren was just like Vader people would have criticized him for being a carbon copy, and now that they showed he is definitely not Vader and is conflicted and has emotions people complain. Can’t please everybody I guess…

    • December 22, 2015 at 1:47 am
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      exactly, but at least it shows they still care.

    • December 22, 2015 at 2:24 am
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      Not really. But what did he do to show how tough he was or someone to be feared? Killing villagers and a defenceless han solo?

      • December 22, 2015 at 6:03 am
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        You mean children and the leaders of the Separatist Movement? 😉

  • December 22, 2015 at 12:21 am
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    Knights of Ren. That’s what has me exited going forward. We saw a quick glimpse, but I want to know more about them. As far as Kylo Ren, his story arc in this new trilogy is interesting. In his mind, he would be torn between the light and dark side, but after he killed Han, he went completely to the Dark side and after his defeat with Rey, he, along with Rey, will be training with their respective masters, Luke Skywalker and Supreme Leader Snoke. All I really want for this new trilogy, and one of the things I loved about the prequels, was the amount of Jedis there were in the galaxy. Luke tried to train a new generation, but Ben Solo turned on him and killed his fellow students. Luke felt responsible and left and disappeared. I hope this doesn’t discourage him to give up training a new generation of Jedi Knights, one that will endure and protect the galaxy in the upcoming films. We all can agree that the Jedis and Sith are the pinnacle of power in this universe and they’re the most bad asses in these films with their epic light sabers, their force powers and their acrobatic fighting style. I want a return of a new Jedi Order, or at least the very beginning of one, with Luke leading the charge of training and founding it. In Episode 8, I want him to be training, or have trained Jedis. A great way to introduce the Knights of Ren would be to have them be a group that hunts down and destroy the Jedi Knights in the galaxy, which if Kylo Ren is their master, and according to him he wants to finish what Darth Vader started (wiping out and destroying every Jedi ever), then that is what they are. They won’t be necessarily be Sith since they’re all destroyed, unless it’s discovered that Snoke is a Sith. Knights of Ren are very covered in mystery and secrecy so I don’t know much about them, but if they were trained to hunt down and kill the last remaining Jedis, which I think that they are, then let them and the Jedis that Luke have trained fight in a epic climax in either episode 8 or 9. A new Jedi Order, new Jedi Knights with various colored light sabers and a new Jedi temple and an epic battle. That is what I want to see. Make it so, Rian Johnson and Disney!!

    • December 22, 2015 at 12:29 am
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      I want them to be the main atagonists of a future episode.

      • December 22, 2015 at 12:49 am
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        I’m still not sure yet if they can be the main antagonist of a upcoming sequel. They might be just one antagonist, but I can’t picture them just yet as a main antagonist. We shall see though. I’m so excited for their inevitable introduction and explanation and a little more back story into Ben Solo, Supreme Leader Snoke and Luke Skywalker. They gave us hints about the past, but didn’t explain. Either in a book or in a movie, they will explain what exactly happened. I’m excited. Knights of Ren, from what we saw, look so cool.

    • December 22, 2015 at 12:33 am
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      The question is, how did Snoke manage to lure him away?

      • December 22, 2015 at 12:45 am
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        That is what I’m interested in learning too. I also think Kylo learned of Darth Vader somehow and became obsessed with that he stood for. Darth Vader’s mission was to destroy the last Jedi, but his compassion and love for his son, made Vader fail in this quest. So he’s taking it upon himself to kill every Jedi ever along with his Knights of Ren. That is why he went to Jakku, to find a map that leads directly to Luke to kill his first master and the last remaining Jedi. It’s going to be harder for him now if Luke trains Rey, which will undoubtedly happen and make it that much harder for Ren and Snoke to wipe them out.

        • December 22, 2015 at 12:49 am
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          This is how I see it, too. Great post.

        • December 22, 2015 at 12:55 am
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          Why didn’t he take out Luke to begin with? He was already training with him. Plus, if gets wuped by a girl in the woods, how does he expect to take out a master…

          • December 22, 2015 at 12:59 am
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            Kylo Ren isn’t strong enough to kill Luke. At least not on his own which come to think of it, which is probably why the Knights of Ren were created because with a group, they can prove a match against Luke. That will back fire on them when Luke starts training others. Knights of Ren vs New Jedi Knights in either Episode 8 or 9. That’s what I see happening. Because the Knights of Ren follow orders and I think we’re trained by Snoke, a dark side user. We shall see what happens.

          • December 22, 2015 at 1:01 am
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            They seem more like Kylo’s thugs to me. Guess we’ll see.

          • December 22, 2015 at 4:07 am
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            After reading the article, I’m thinking the vision scene showed Kylo killing the “former” master of the KOR. Maybe the helmet is only worn by the master. Driver mentioned something to that effect if I’m not mistaken.

  • December 22, 2015 at 12:25 am
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    Brilliant writing. Brilliant movie. My favorite Star Wars movie or thing ever.

    • December 22, 2015 at 2:22 am
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      jesus…really?

      • December 22, 2015 at 2:38 am
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        Yeah. Never thought I would be saying this. But, I LOVE IT!!!

    • December 22, 2015 at 6:13 pm
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      Seriously? Your 12 right? Nothing brilliant about TFA.

      • December 23, 2015 at 8:36 pm
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        It is brilliant. You’re 6 right?

  • December 22, 2015 at 12:26 am
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    Sorry unrelated. I’ve been listening to the soundtrack.

    Rey’s theme is purely majestic

    • December 22, 2015 at 12:37 am
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      To me, that was the most iconic song in this soundtrack. One that I can hum. You’re talking about “the Jedi Steps and Finale” correct?

    • December 22, 2015 at 12:46 am
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      Unfortunately it never really carries through in the film. Compared to TPM, this score seemed a bit general

      • December 22, 2015 at 12:53 am
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        That was one of my complains too. The music is another character in the Star Wars universe and films and it enhances the experience. It just didn’t stand out to me mostly because of its subtlety and the events and themes this movie suggest. I’m certain that will change in episode 8 when things are more fast paced, action oriented, etc. This episode is just the beginning of the force and its awakening in Kylo and Rey. Next time we see them, they’ll be fleshed out more and be a Jedi with Rey and a “Sith” in Kylo.

        • December 22, 2015 at 12:57 am
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          Unfortunately it never really carries through in the film. Compared to TPM, this score seemed a bit general. Aside from a few classic references, there wasn’t really anything memorable that could will continue thru to the other films. / That said before I’ve heard the full soundtrack, which I’m sure is solid.

        • December 22, 2015 at 12:58 am
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          Ep 8 needs to be way slower paced. and if I see a walker assault and ren or snoke telling Rey that they are her first cousins uncle’s father’s girlfriends former room mate I’m gonna puke

          • December 22, 2015 at 1:00 am
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            And lest we forget romance 😉

          • December 22, 2015 at 1:45 am
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            except finn got exiled to the friend zone. but at least the poor bastard was unconscious when it happened. 😉

          • December 22, 2015 at 1:53 am
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            I wouldn’t necessarily say that. If they’re going on parallels, he’s definitely more than a Wedge to Rey’s Luke.

          • December 22, 2015 at 4:11 am
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            I think she likes Poe

          • December 22, 2015 at 4:49 am
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            It’s Hollywood, So he gets the girl in the next one.

          • December 22, 2015 at 5:56 am
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            Could’ve sworn I sensed him thinking “Noooo…!” ;P

          • December 22, 2015 at 10:41 am
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            lol

    • December 22, 2015 at 2:14 am
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      Rey’s theme, and the ending theme before credits.. awesome. Would loved to have heard an epic First Order March. perhaps in VIII.

    • December 22, 2015 at 2:40 am
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      i can’t stop to listen to Rey’s theme might become a classical close to Binary Sunset

  • December 22, 2015 at 12:48 am
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    I’m really interested to see the parallels of Snoke training Kylo Ren and Luke training Rey in 8. And I want more background info on Luke and Kylo Ren’s relationship and how he was seduced to the dark side.

    • December 22, 2015 at 12:54 am
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      We might see that in a book I’m guessing, but would love it more in a film.

      • December 22, 2015 at 1:02 am
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        Luke and Kylo’s relationship has to be explained in the films. It’s too big of a thing to be left for books that not everyone who watches the SW movies will read. I mean it’s only one of the biggest reasons (if not the sole reason) why Luke seems to have gone into exile.

    • December 22, 2015 at 2:23 am
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      Same. And how he also sucked at lightsaber fighting. Would want to find that out as well

    • December 22, 2015 at 4:48 am
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      Due to the years in between films, It sucks we won’t get to see her early training days at all except maybe some token Force Backs. It wouldn’t surprise me if she’s a Jedi Knight in the next one.

      • December 22, 2015 at 6:23 am
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        You don’t know where VIII will begin.

        • December 22, 2015 at 7:04 am
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          They could do “5 years later” segueway but we have never seen that in the existing films.

          • December 22, 2015 at 9:36 am
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            I hope VIII picks up immediately after TFA or shortly thereafter.

          • December 22, 2015 at 1:22 pm
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            Would be a first in the series if it does in less than a year’s time. Which also means we’ll probably miss Han’s funeral which they should have had in this one.

  • December 22, 2015 at 12:48 am
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    The thing I find most interesting about Kylo Ren is how hard he pushes himself to emulate Vader. It seems to me that what he fears most is not only going back to the light side, but also to fail on this twisted quest of his. It’s as if by refusing to hear the call of the light the guy’s convinced that he will be more powerful than Vader (who obviously failed the “test”).

    But I think Rey proved that Kylo still has a long way to go in his training and that his impatience and immaturity could cost him greatly in the future.

    • December 22, 2015 at 1:05 am
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      I don’t know, Vader caused some pretty serious damage over the decades. I wouldn’t necessarily say he “failed.”

      • December 22, 2015 at 1:07 am
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        I probably wouldn’t say that he failed, either. But Kylo might think that granddad did fail by not killing the last Jedi, which seems to be Kylo’s quest to my understanding, at least.

        • December 22, 2015 at 1:11 am
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          Technically he did kill the last Jedi when he killed Obi-Wan.
          Luke was just a farmboy along for the ride.

          • December 22, 2015 at 1:12 am
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            Not really. Yoda was still around and Palpatine knew it. It stands to reason that Vader also might’ve known it.

            ETA: Also, when Anakin redeemed himself Luke had officially become the last of the Jedi already (as per Yoda’s words). And this is also the moment when Vader hesitated and might look weak to his grandson.

            Either way, Luke is the last of the Jedi now, and obviously that makes him Kylo’s main target if he wishes to emulate his grandfather.

          • December 22, 2015 at 1:50 am
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            Yeah I forgot about Yoda.
            What I don’t get is reconciling the presence of the Force by having it accessible to only a handful of people at any moment or era. Something so awesome that holds a multii-trillion being Galaxy together has somehow been ‘lying dormant’ because there was no one around to tap into it.

            Admittedly, I was surprised in a movie that was suppose to be more “grey”, that Maz Von Sydow’s character was convinced the Jedi were absolutely necessary for balance. Whereas in our current, secular kind of grey society, God [The Force] is all but deemed passé.

          • December 22, 2015 at 3:46 am
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            Yeah, I wanted to see some explanation about this whole “Balance of the Force” business, especially since Anakin was supposed to have fulfilled his destiny as the Chosen One. In this sense, TFA rendered RotJ almost null to me. Hopefully this will be explored more deeply in the next 2 episodes.

            As for MVS’s character, I think he’s old enough to remember the amazing deeds of the Jedi during the Clone Wars and that’s why he believes in them and has a connection to Luke. I would’ve also loved to getting a longer glimpse at this mystical old man. I don’t even remember having heard the character’s name on the film.

          • December 22, 2015 at 4:00 am
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            An here he is dead within the first 5 minutes of the film.
            The visual dictionary has a lot more on him though.

          • December 22, 2015 at 4:08 am
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            Yep. That was somewhat disappointing. I thought his role would be larger. It was very important, though, and intriguing (he seems to know the Skywalker clan well, based on his words about Leia and what he told Kylo).

            As for the visual dictionary, I don’t see why we should pick up companion books only to fully understand a film. I don’t remember this ever being the case before with the previous 6 movies.

          • December 22, 2015 at 5:16 am
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            MVS’s character never had a name drop. I was paying close attention to the film and not once did I hear it. His character is old enough to remember the Age of the Jedi and their deeds in the prequel era which is why he believes that they can bring a balance to the force because with the Jedi around, the galaxy was a much safer place. Which means that he witnessed The Old Republic under the protection of the Jedi Knights and the Order’s destruction. He was probably a senator. Though I have no evidence of that. The Jedi Order’s downfall was Anakin being seduced by the dark side and the Sith, force users who wanted to rule the galaxy. MVS’s character wants to preserve the Jedi order, or better yet, resurrect it (since he believes that with the Jedi around (witnessed it first hand), there can be balance to the force) and to do that, he had to hide the last known location of the last Jedi, Luke Skywalker. I would go so far as to say that he knew exactly where he was exciled after Ben Solo turned on him. He wants to protect Luke so that one day, Luke can start a new Jedi Order, the ones who can bring balance to the force. At least that’s what his character hoped for.

          • December 22, 2015 at 5:28 am
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            This is pretty much what I got from the character too, with a slight difference. I believe he might’ve been a close friend and/or collaborator of Bail Organa’s, based on the way he replies, “She’ll always be royalty to me” when Poe mentions that Leia goes by “General Organa” these days. I may be wrong, of course, but that hinted at familiarity with the Alderaan royal family right there.

            The guy could’ve easily been away from Alderaan when it was destroyed, hence the reason he was still around in TFA. Maybe he became a trustworthy adviser for Leia (and Luke by addition) and this is how he got the piece of the puzzle that was the map leading to Luke. I also think that his line about the Jedi being necessary for the balance of the Force means that there has to be more than just one Jedi around indeed.

          • December 22, 2015 at 5:48 am
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            Either in Episode 8 or 9 or beyond, I’ve heard that they might want to go all the way to Episode 12, even further since they want this to be a forever franchise, a new Jedi Order will be resurrected. Rey will be Luke’s motivation to train other people again. I can easily see Luke and Rey being the only full Jedi’s next film while they recruit more members. Maybe by the end of the film’s events, we’ll see Rey have a Padawan of her own. Who knows at this point, but ultimately, we will see a ton of Jedis again and that, above all, has me beyond excited! That was one of the things I loved about the prequels; its amount of Jedi Knights alive and present. Im also thinking that the new villains/Sith order/dark side users want to prevent this from happening since they aren’t necessarily hidden in shadows anymore like Palpatine was and if a new Jedi order is resurrected from the ashes, they will eventually end up being destroyed. End of Star Wars. I’m excited for the possibilities all this presents us.

          • December 22, 2015 at 8:05 am
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            Well, I think it’s obvious that Disney will continue milking the cow till it runs dry. Even if the main saga does end at Ep. 9, there’s the spin-offs. Rogue One has got me excited, because the plot has great potential, IMO.

            I’d also love to see a “pre-prequel” trilogy of how the Jedi and the Sith battled for control of the galaxy before the rise of the Republic. Personally, I would’ve preferred this to a ST, to be perfectly honest.

            SW offers so many possibilities…I just hope that the films are quality productions and that the franchise doesn’t become stale like Bond, for instance.

          • December 22, 2015 at 7:21 pm
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            Rogue One has me excited too. In fact, all these films do. I love this universe.

            I would love to see what you mentioned in your comment. Jedis and Sith battle together. Very similar to Knights of the Old Republic, a game myself and a ton of people haven’t played. Darth Malak and Darth Revan sure look interesting and they were Sith that existed before the Old Republic. I hope Disney considers it in the future.

            And since Star Wars the brand is now owned by Disney, we can assume that they naturally will be high production films. As long as they change them up a bit and make the stories interesting, they won’t get stale like Bond.

          • December 22, 2015 at 7:56 pm
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            Yeah, I REALLY hope Disney considers going back to where it all began. There’s something about the Sith that makes them so enigmatic and mysterious. I’d LOVE to see a film that delves deeper into their origins, dark side magic (Plagueis style), their lore, etc.

            The Sith also offer the possibility to come up with interesting villains like Malak and Revan indeed. I haven’t played a SW videogame since Jedi Power Battles for PS1 (don’t laugh, lol), but I’ve read some very interesting tidbits about these characters, Revan especially. And they do sound pretty cool to me. Again, the possibilities are truly endless!

  • December 22, 2015 at 1:06 am
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    In my opinion alright:
    -JJ, BAD CHOICES OVER THE SCREENPLAY
    ” ….Lugagge!!!! ” WTF Arndt! You guys need to kill Han for productions costs
    or risk or whatever… pay and try to kill Han in EP 8 .
    You guys like to paralel movies , so paralel with Carbonite

    • December 22, 2015 at 1:09 am
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      What do you hc fans and fans think about this ?
      FROM Donovan Shane Clifton I really did like Star Wars: Episode VII – The Force Awakens.
      However, it was not without fault. And I think the people who laid out the outlines for VII-IX did not do a very good job. In fact, I think they cheated the most loyal Star Wars fans out of something EPIC.

      Here’s why (Spoilers abound) …

      State of the Star Wars

      The newest entry into the Star Wars Universe is Episode VII: The Force Awakens. Many questions were asked and answered with its release. Still, many more were left unanswered, hinted will be answered, and still some more that linked the film to the former EU (Expanded Universe). Disney jettisoned the EU so that the films could be made indefinitely without having hands tied. But there is now a giant “WTF?” about that decision. I am now convinced that it wasn’t a bad idea. That said, how The Force Awakens played out and how future films obviously will, disturbs a bit.
      Getting rid of the EU by making it non-canon is fine, but what the makers of the Star Wars films actually did was cherry-pick the EU and that is ridiculous.
      1. In the EU Han and Leia are married and have three children, fraternal Jedi twins in Jacen & Jaina, and the youngest, Anakin. Anakin (a trainee in Luke’s Jedi Academy) is KIA in one of the most horrific battles ever known in any universe, much less just the Star Wars universe. TFA hasn’t touched on such a character, so we’ll leave this for a future debate. However, the next 2 plot points are parallel and gender is a moot point.
      2. In the EU, Luke has a son with his wife Mara Jade Skywalker. MJS is THE best character ever created in the EU, she is a spunky, sarcastic, fiery red-head who is a great shot, really good saber fighter and is a reformed Dark Side Force-user (but was not a Sith). Their son’s name … Ben. Heard that before? Yes, that’s correct, the SW powers-that-be transplanted Luke’s son’s name to Han’s son’s name. What’s the point? There is ZERO reason to NOT keep Han & Leia’s son’s name Jacen.
      3. In TFA it is assumed that Rey is Luke’s daughter, so in the future cousins will fight (Kylo Ren vs. Rey). Again a “Why?” comes to mind. In the EU it is Jacen who is twisted by the Dark Side and Jaina (who as a twin is both broken-hearted and resolved to take him down) has a “battle to the death” with him. So now in film we have cousins squaring off, rather than fraternal twins. Not a big deal on the surface, but why not maintain the EU outline? It would have been easy to do, but instead they get twisted for no reason.
      4. If Rey IS Han & Leia’s daughter, then that would parallel the EU once more as siblings would be on opposite sides of the Force and galactic entities. They only need to have a different storyline, which would be no big deal to hardly anyone. If they needed Luke to have a child, but thought having Rey be a Solo would negate the possibility of Luke having one is also silly. Luke’s child could have been held back for Episode VIII-IX or beyond and worked in. I can think of many ways to do it just off the top of my head.
      5. IF Rey IS Luke’s daughter, then where is her mother? Did Kylo kill her? Guess what, Mara Jade dies at the hands of Jacen in the EU! If she is alive, why would she abandon her daughter? If she is alive a turns out to be a red-head not named Mara Jade or worse a non-redhead named something else, I don’t know what my reaction would be. It would not be positive. Why bother changing “Ben” to a female “Rey?” If they wanted a female to be in the future films and in the Skywalker/Solo children generation, Jaina was right there for them to use with extreme ease.

      Why bother changing any of this?
      Kathleen Kennedy said they wanted to make a movie “for the fans.” While they made a good film, if they REALLY wanted to make a movie “for the fans,” they would have kept the genders and names the same. It was pointless to change them. Casual fans would never have known the difference and fans of the ENTIRE SW Universe would have been beyond happy. They didn’t have to cherry-pick the EU and then twist the cherries.

      • December 22, 2015 at 2:05 am
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        A big rant based on scant basis. To use the name Ben doesn’t directly relate to the EU. It is a name of importance in the family. Just because an EU charector was also named Ben doesn’t mean they have decided to pick apart the legends, but bring back to life the spirit of a former friend.
        As to Rey , it is only speculation that she is a Skywalker. If she was then I’m sure they would have confirmed it already as now it would make too obvious a twist as to be pointless. There is much that we don’t know so it is entirely possible her parents have not yet been introduced into the story

        • December 22, 2015 at 2:18 am
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          In my belief, in the movies( this canon erase thing actually sucks)… Rey is like Jaina, sister of Kylo

        • December 22, 2015 at 4:46 am
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          In the EU, Ben was Luke’s kid which made sense since he was the closest thing he had to a Father but Leia had no time with him at all and Han was just a mere acquaintance to him.

          • December 23, 2015 at 7:10 am
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            You can still name a child in honor of a person whose exploits you admire without having known them well.

      • December 23, 2015 at 6:59 am
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        You do know that they (LF) specifically stated multiple times over the last couple years that they wanted the EU to be available for the writers and filmmakers to be able to cherry-pick from right? They just don’t want them to be forced to tell the same stories or to be beholden to what came before. The cherry-picking is very much intentional and meant to feel familiar to EU fans. Large portions of the EU were ridiculous and really poorly written, specifically the last half of the Vong invasion and 90% of what came after it in that timeline. What we got on screen has the galaxy in a far more interesting place than the outhouse it was at the end of the old EU. It was painful to read the last two series because it was very obvious that the writers had no clue what to do with the characters at that point. The Vong invasion took it away from being Star wars and turned it into generic amateurish sci-fi that you can find in any cheap airport paperback.

  • December 22, 2015 at 1:16 am
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    very interesting and it brings up a new question: why would snoke let kylo hunt down luke if he wasn’t fully trained? luke is the last of the freaking jedi and you want to send the B team after him? not a good plan. 😉

    • December 22, 2015 at 1:18 am
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      As bait, perhaps?

      Luke might not bring himself to kill his nephew (in fact, I’m sure he must be looking for another solution to the problem while in exile). But if Kylo finds Luke, Snoke can send the rest of the KoR to get the job done.

      • December 22, 2015 at 1:26 am
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        he could always try talking to kylo, that worked pretty good with vader. 😉 but anyway, you’re assuming the other knights are stronger then kylo and considering he’s their “master”, i would doubt it. but we haven’t seen what they are about yet, so who knows they could be awesome. 😉

        • December 22, 2015 at 1:29 am
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          Not assuming anything, really. Just thinking that using Kylo to lure Luke into a trap (where the KoR’s strength would lie in numbers) could be what Snoke has in mind.

          We really don’t know anything about this cult or order. So I guess anything is possible with them at this point.

          • December 22, 2015 at 1:43 am
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            yeah its really hard to speculate about these guys. they and kylo did wipe out luke’s students some how(which needs to be explained big time), yet years later their master still needs training? it feels to me if snoke wanted luke out of the way he’d want these guys to be the best of the best, not above average. so many mixed signals here.

          • December 22, 2015 at 5:01 am
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            I think the Knights of Ren was something formed by Ren. He brought them together hence the name Knights OF Ren. They were probably students of Luke who fell to the dark side after Kylo Ren seduced them. Ben Solo, still in the early stages of training to be a Jedi, met Snoke somehow. Either in an adventure or a Jedi himself who was disillusioned by the ways of the Jedi. Ren was seduced by the Dark Side and killed his fellow classmates. Shortly after, a plan was formed by Snoke to kill the last Jedi, Luke. Snoke knowing that Ren isn’t powerful enough with the force to accomplish this, instructs Kylo to recruit other people so that together, they have a shot of destroying Luke. Knights of Ren are formed. The purpose of the KoR is That together in their numbers, they could kill Luke Skywalker, the last Jedi. But Luke, being powerful, wasn’t able to be defeated by Kylo which is why, to me anyway, the Knights of Ren were formed. That is their sole purpose. But if this is true, that they are a group of people, presumably dark force users, then it will get difficult for them to accomplish this in a future film since Rey will probably motivate and inspire Luke to start training Jedis again. I believe that there will be a confrontation between the KoR and the Jedis that Luke starts training again. This is pure speculation on my part so I could be totally wrong, but this is what I’m picking up from this mysterious group. It makes sense then that they (KoR) aren’t as powerful as Kylo Ren. This is evidenced when Kylo himself is bested by Rey at the end. Ren, being their leader, one must assume that he is the most powerful out of all of them. The way he stood in that shot in the middle when they were briefly seen in Rey’s nightmare is also evidence that Kylo Ren is their leader. And since Rey bested Ren, she could easily beat them all individually in a duel, possibly kill them all. Together, Rey stands no chance. The mystery surrounding the KoR is exciting and one I can’t wait to learn more about. We know very little about them. Are they also force users? Where did Kylo Ren recruit them from? Exciting questions raised for sure.

    • December 22, 2015 at 2:06 am
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      Well he’s not actually planning on beating him in a fair fight… Just locating him. He finds which planet Luke’s on and the Starkiller destroys it instantly. Hence the urgency of this search, as the weapon becomes operational.

      • December 22, 2015 at 2:12 am
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        idk, star wars is all about mono y mono. and remember this is personal, kylo is finishing what granddad vader started and he needs to be there to do it himself, and prove his worthiness to the dark side.

    • December 22, 2015 at 4:45 am
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      It’s possible he has another apprentice on the side and was trying to get rid of him since he seems very unstable. They aren’t Sith so the rule of two doesn’t apply, It would be interesting to see two darksiders duke it out too.

      • December 22, 2015 at 5:50 am
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        That would be great wouldn’t it? That has never been seen in live action. Good idea

        • December 22, 2015 at 7:00 am
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          Thank you! Plus Vader would have done that had he not gotten injured and what better way to live up to his legacy?

        • December 22, 2015 at 7:01 am
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          Thank you! I enjoyed it quite a bit in the EU and we never seen a dark sider on dark sider battle before with two red lightsabers.

    • December 22, 2015 at 7:43 am
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      Snoke wanted the map (in BB-8) or if Kylo couldn’t get he wanted it destroyed. Snoke said if Skywalker returns so will the jedi. He wanted Luke to stay where he was. I think Kylo wanted the map to find and kill Luke on his own to prove himself to Snoke.

  • December 22, 2015 at 1:51 am
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    The backstory on Ren is very interesting, and the patricide that takes place in TFA makes untenable my favored theory that Ren will come back to the light and become a leading crusader against Voldemort’s doppelganger. Any reconciliation would more likely be a heroic final gesture akin to Vader going WWF on Darth Sidious from the top turnbuckle. As for Rey, it’s off to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry in the mean time. Jest aside, I look forward to seeing how both characters develop their force skills.

  • December 22, 2015 at 1:59 am
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    About the only thing annoying about TFA for me is just how much story has taken place in between, story that feels incredibly important and which we’re only destined to see in fragments of flash back and dialogue recounting it all. I wonder if there’s any plans whatsoever for a film about Luke’s Academy at the time. Seems unlikely but I feel like we need it eventually.

    • December 22, 2015 at 2:13 am
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      Undoubtedly, I think the early days of Luke’s academy won’t be explored fully and to the extent that we want to see. But know that at the end of this trilogy, there will be a new Jedi Order even if the founder ,Luke, ends up dying. Rey will lead him back and encourage and motivate him to train others even after his self-imposed exile after Kylo Ren betrayed him and his other class mates.

  • December 22, 2015 at 2:21 am
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    Kylo who? The chump who got his ass handed to him? And could onlt defeat some helpless villagers and an unarmed Han Solo?

    What’s there to talk about this embarassment to the dark side?

    Vader would be ashamed.

    • December 22, 2015 at 3:21 am
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      That’s actually the point.

    • December 22, 2015 at 5:52 am
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      Actually, he did beat Han Solo.

      As for Rey, he was injured and caught off guard that not only was she able to fight, but she also was able to draw on the force to gain power.

      And he wasn’t trying to kill her, he wanted her to join him.

      • December 22, 2015 at 6:49 pm
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        No…he didn’t. Han Solo was not armed and tried to come to him in peace, not violently.

        So a trained Sith warrior gets a shot in the waist and thus gets trounced by a scavenger who only recently started using the force when he’s been honing it for years under luke and snoke?

    • December 22, 2015 at 6:04 pm
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      I know right. People want to just paint over reality. Ren lost to Rey. Ren is no worthy adversary and is a terrible bad guy. Vader he is not.

      • December 22, 2015 at 6:46 pm
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        No way. It’s insulting to mention him in the same breath as the great one. Embarassing for the dark side

      • December 22, 2015 at 7:17 pm
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        “Vader he is not.”

        That’s the whole point and basis of his own fears, inadequacies and vulnerability. If you wanted a big bad guy, watch a Marvel film.

  • December 22, 2015 at 2:32 am
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    On another note with Reys parentage. I’ve been giving it a lot of thought and I don’t see how she could possibly be Luke’s. Just based on ages. If Han and Leia had Ben within a couple of years after Endor then he would be about 28. Rey as confirmed in the novel is just under 20.
    Let’s say Ben becomes Kylo when he’s about 17 18 then Rey would have been about 9 years old. Everyone including Kylo and Snoke would have known about her. She would be famous.
    There would be no need to hide her before everything turned to custard and if she was known about but presumed dead then surely somebody would have recognised by now who she was. Either Kylo, Han or Leia.
    No idea then who her parents could be but I definitely no longer think Luke.

    • December 22, 2015 at 2:41 am
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      in the book Kylo knows her. He says “it is you!” when she grabs the light saber. The movie down plays it down for whatever reason.

  • December 22, 2015 at 2:33 am
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    After reading the novel, which thankfully filled in some gaps and brought my opionion of the movie up a bit, I have a theory about Ren. I think it’s entirely possible that Ren did not betray Luke. I think Snoke was the Jedi apprentice who betrayed Luke, seduced Ben and the others who made up the Knights of Ren to the Dark Side, and destroyed the new Jedi Order. Notice how casually Han, and then Leia, spoke of Snoke? It was almost as if they were referencing someone they knew. And in the novel, Leia tells Han that Snoke was watching Ben all along, manipulating him. Now add to this the obvious burns and disfigurment on Snoke, perhaps obtained in a fight with say, a Jedi Master?

    As far as Ren being unturnable, don’t bet on it. Anaking Skywalker slaughtered children, his wife, tourtured his daughter, anhiliated several billion people, tortured hundreds more, and cut off his own son’s hand. Yet, he still made it to the Ewok’s party in the end.

    • December 22, 2015 at 4:43 am
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      Isn’t Snoke even older than Plagueis though? Meaning centuries old at least.

      • December 22, 2015 at 4:59 am
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        I’ve not seen anything in the official SW timeline that indicates how old he is. According to the TFA novel, Snoke explained that he saw the rise and fall of the Empire, so at the very least he could be in his 60’s. That would not exclude him from being trained in the ways of the Force at some point in the last 35 years.

        • December 22, 2015 at 6:58 am
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          It might make more sense since it would be very hard to believe Sidious would just leave him to his own devices.

    • December 22, 2015 at 6:55 am
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      Billions of people? The destruction of Alderaan was all on Tarkin. I don’t see Vader making a move like that on his own. He’s much more efficient than that.

      • December 22, 2015 at 2:17 pm
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        Ohhh yes, Vader was responsible. He was right there with Tarkin when the trigger was pulled on Alderaan. Tarkin may have been in charge of the military aspect of the operation, but as the personal emissary of the Emperor, Vader could have stopped it if he so chose. Like his grandson would later slaughter villages though, Vader saw the destruction of Alderaan as no more than the discipline of a father spanking a recalcitrant child to bring them inline

  • December 22, 2015 at 2:51 am
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    “We came up with a backstory that Luke had a pupil who turned against him and fought him, and killed all the other pupils, and that was a thing that exploded the family and destroyed Han and Leia’s relationship,”

    -This is too good a story not to be explored on film in some way; I hope it doesn’t end up being a young-adult novel.

    • December 22, 2015 at 4:42 am
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      Agreed. Like someone on here said they will likely explain it through Force Backs but it’s still a cheat like Lucas did with the Clone Wars onscreen.

  • December 22, 2015 at 2:57 am
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    Luke is a bit a failure the past 30 years. The Jedi return and now he’s the last remaining Jedi. It seems unlikely he’ll be killed off in this trilogy if there’s ever going to be another Jedi Order. Before a New Hope there were 2 Jedi left. 30 years later there’s only one.

  • December 22, 2015 at 3:05 am
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    in my opinion, adam driver stole the show (amongst the newcomers). the acting all around was FABULOUS and daisy, john, oscar, lupita, domnhall, gwendolyn, etc. were all fantastic in their roles, but i believe adam driver had the toughest job. i know there were complaints that kylo ren and han solo should have met prior to meeting on the bridge in the film, therefore there would have been emotional weight.. but i think that scene was so powerful. adam perfected the character of kylo ren and i really felt for him in the moments before he murdered his father. what an extraordinary character.. i can’t wait to see what they do with him.

    • December 22, 2015 at 4:41 am
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      If there was a weak link, I think it was Carrie but she only got 25 minutes onscreen and it looks like she may not even be in the next one at all which I’m fine with since we know where she’s at now and she has been out of the acting game far too long. I really wanted to see Mark Hamill show his stuff though.

    • December 22, 2015 at 11:25 am
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      I thought Boyega and Driver were the best. Finn felt like a classic character. If Finn died in this movie, he would have cemented his place in Star Wars lore based off his performance alone. It was a joy to watch. Adam Driver as Kylo Ren… Wow you can’t call me crazy for saying he LEAPED to the top of the villains list. Vader is Vader, but Kylo is something we havent seen before and theres some excitement knowing what they said about him being unlike anyone we seen before, was actually the truth.

      • December 22, 2015 at 6:00 pm
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        You mean the bad guy who lost to an untrained Rey? Yeah some bad guy.

  • December 22, 2015 at 3:56 am
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    Can someone explain how if the Jedi Temple fell 20 years ago, and Ben Solo or Ren is now in his 20’s, how the heck can he take the Jedi order down, and how could he take on Luke.

    My guess is Ben was a kid very much in danger of the dark forces, but the Jedi who turned his back on Luke is Snoke. And Luke’s kicks his behind so badly, that what we see now is this Snoke.

    Snoke is a Dark Jedi who convinced the young boy Ben Solo to help him betray his master and uncle.

    And Rey could very well be Luke or Snokes daughter.

    • December 22, 2015 at 4:15 am
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      I was thinking the same thing myself. I don’t think we ever heard that Kylo was this apprentice of Luke’s who went rogue. All we know is that a former apprentice of Luke’s turned on him and destroyed the new Jedi Order that he was trying to put together. I think this is deliberate.

      I do believe that Rey is Luke’s though. Too many blatant clues pointing at her being a Skywalker on the film, IMO.

    • December 22, 2015 at 4:18 am
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      I thought it fell 10 years prior to the movie and Ren is now in his late 20s early 30’s meaning he would have been fairly matured.

      • December 22, 2015 at 4:38 am
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        They said his late teens in one of the interviews though in classic Hollywood style, He looks far older. It’s why he was asked to shave his goatee.

        • December 22, 2015 at 3:18 pm
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          3 days ago, Pablo Hidalgo confirmed that Kylo Ren is 29-30 years old.

          • December 22, 2015 at 5:07 pm
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            The excerpt from the Visual Dictionary (above) talks about the “young man” he used to be. Ben Solo had to have been born fairly soon after ROTJ. With Kylo Ren being 30, and him being a “young man” when he turned and already being so skilled in lightsaber combat and well versed in Jedi/Sith lore, probably means he was 15-17 years old when he killed his peers. I’d say the second fall of the Jedi order happened about halfway between VI and VII.

          • December 23, 2015 at 7:08 am
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            Shhh. If you provide facts that contradict Snark’s opinions he starts throwing around insults and having temper tantrums.

          • December 23, 2015 at 2:57 pm
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            Thank you! And the other characters?

        • January 14, 2016 at 8:30 am
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          Sources say he was born 1 year after the Battle of Endor which puts him at 29 in the movie and about 19 when he destroyed the Jedi temple.

          • January 14, 2016 at 6:02 pm
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            From what I heard he’s about 30 so close enough, Rey is 19, Poe is 32, and no idea about Finn.

    • December 22, 2015 at 10:13 am
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      not bad at all

      • December 22, 2015 at 6:40 pm
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        If he was skilled enough to take down that many Jedi, the Finn vs Ren fight can only be explained if Finn has some secret power. The wound and emotional grief from killing his father aren’t cutting it anymore for me…..lol. Sorry J.J.

        • December 22, 2015 at 7:11 pm
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          He was able to take out that many Jedi presumably because he was most likely advanced in his training than the others which makes him more powerful than the other students due to his heritage and lineage. At least that’s the way I interpret it. Since he was seduced by the dark side, he came under the impression that all Jedi should be wiped out and after taking out all the other students, his next goal is to kill Luke. In essence, his main goal is to destroy all Jedis, a goal that once belonged to Darth Vader. Kylo almost accomplished this when he was instrumental in delaying the inevitable only momentarily. The inevitable being that a new Jedi Order will rise sooner or later. Especially now that Rey is with Luke.

          • January 5, 2016 at 6:50 pm
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            That still doesn’t negate the incredible force push he did on Rey which he could of just as easily used on Finn, if not Force choke, Force paralysis, force lightning, etc… I mean, come on.

        • December 22, 2015 at 8:49 pm
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          How many Jedi were there, though?

          My understanding is that he and the Knights of Ren took them out, likely barely trained Jedi.

          • December 23, 2015 at 1:59 pm
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            If he wasn’t alone then it makes sense, but the Visual dictionary says it was due to his awesome Lightsaber skills. So awesome he Struggled against Finn
            …..

          • December 25, 2015 at 7:07 am
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            He didn’t seem to struggle much with Finn .. that fight lasted a very short time compared to Rey who easily bested him.. but it took her a long time to do it .

            Finn apparently never used a lightsaber, Rey either.. but she was very good at handling it

          • January 5, 2016 at 1:16 am
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            He force pushed Rey into the heights of a tree, knocking her (seemingly) unconscious. So, why couldn’t he just use the force on Finn, too?

        • December 25, 2015 at 7:06 am
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          It was a Jedi “school” .. I know nobody likes the prequel movies but that Jedi academy mostly had young children or early teens that were quite easily taken out ..

          He also handled Finn pretty quickly, it was Rey he struggled with and I suspect she’s the daughter of Luke..

          • December 27, 2015 at 2:50 am
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            I understand your point, but if these were just more weak, young jedi, there would be no need to give such high praise to Ren for his lightsaber combat skills.

      • December 22, 2015 at 7:15 pm
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        Thanks for posting this. It does provide a lot of interesting info on Kylo’s background…but it also seems to contradict what we saw in the character on the film, tbh. Kylo’s definitely all over the place and he’s also wounded at the end of the film, but he didn’t really look all that skilled with the blade, neither against Finn nor Rey.

  • December 22, 2015 at 4:29 am
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    UMMMMM so if a character does not DIE or CHANGE radically – he is Luggage? Well I guess POE Dameron is LUGGAGE then b/c he didn’t CHANGE radically. Snoke remained evil so Snoke is LUGGAGE. Captain Phasma barely spoke so is she Lugggage too? That Logic is absolute HOGWASH. I never thought I would say this —– but I actually think Michael Arndt’s Script might have been BETTER than JJ’s. I would have loved to have seen Han & Leia reconcile at the end and be together. I would have LOVED to have seen Han in Ep 8 and even Ep 9 before a heroic death. I FEEL ROBBED here sincerely!!!!!!!

    • December 22, 2015 at 6:51 am
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      Yes, while I like the movie we got, Arndt’s script would have been less SHOCKING and more enjoyable and upliftingly Star Wars-y. Abrams is all about the SHOCK. He’s also kind of terrible at it, blowing up whole planets in both Trek and Wars films with little emotional impact. As little as we know about Alderaan in the original Star Wars, it meant something to see it destroyed. But Vulcan’s destruction was just a plot point for Spock and Kirk’s relationship, and whatever the heck planet TFA blew up that apparently housed the Republic Senate was never introduced, nor its significance explaiuned. None of these, I believe, are mistakes Arndt would have made. But apparently he wanted to take too long to get the story right, and Disney had a schedule to keep. Shows you where their priorities are.

      • December 22, 2015 at 9:45 am
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        I agree. I like TFA alot, but I felt the introduction of Starkillerbase, came very late in the movie, and a as dramatic devise felt a bit weak. Considering it is 10 times more devastating than any death star, I think it was problematic that it felt so ‘unimportant’. I did quite like the killing of Han. It had alot of emotional impact, and set the tone for these new films. Nobody is safe.

        • December 22, 2015 at 11:23 am
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          That’s because the Starkiller was a subplot, and that’s what was supposed to make it “different”

          This story is about the force awakening in Rey, Ben Solo and possibly Finn. Also Luke ofcourse.

          • December 22, 2015 at 1:11 pm
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            You’re right. But that is a massive supblot. A giant planet, that can wipeout entire starsystems in one blow, effectively end the ‘war’ in a heartbeat. To use that, as a subthing, is too massive. I liked the whole where is luke story. Maybe they could have introduced STARKILLERBASE, and not blow it up in the first film, or similiar. Now they have to invent a new threat, even bigger and better than two Deathstars and the STK BASE. It could be a bit flat.

          • December 22, 2015 at 4:59 pm
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            I hope they completely forego the massive superweapon plot device for the next two films, focusing entirely on the personal threat of the First Order and its leaders. This would allow room for some awesome ground battles and space battles which we didn’t really see in this film. We got to see troops raid a village and some minor skirmishes, but we didn’t get a full scale troop vs. troop battle in this one nor did we get a space dogfight. I’d say we will no doubt get a revelatory confrontation between the force users and some ground pounding action in Ep. 8, much like ESB. I would love for Ep. 9 to take us somewhere we’ve never been on screen, like Moraband, Mortis, or the Force Planet Yoda visited in his CW arc. I didn’t mind the Starkiller base in TFA, but I hope we never again see anything like it. You can have your big space battles and ground battles without a superweapon. The most interesting part of the finale of TFA for me was the duel, and I hope these interactions between Rey and Ren become more of the focus in the remainder of the trilogy.

          • December 22, 2015 at 5:03 pm
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            I think they know they can’t go back to the well on the superweapon again – they even kind of poked fun at it in the movie so I think we’re good.

            Hope they can bring the ‘storm the castle’ idea that Kasdan/Kurtz had for ROTJ that we didn’t get because Death Star 2.0 (isn’t ROTJ just as bad a re-hash of ANH as anything? Except Luke fights with a lightsaber instead of a X-Wing and has a somewhat “rival” save him….but I digress).

          • December 22, 2015 at 5:58 pm
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            Ha ha thats what defenders of TFA have grabbed onto and keep repeating at nauseam. “Starkiller was a subplot….”

            If thats what you need to keep telling yourself to sleep at night then go ahead. Starkiller base is one of the worst plot devices EVER put into a movie and was one of the biggest reasons for TFA’s failure (not talking financial). And yes, as a movie its a huge failure.

          • December 22, 2015 at 9:36 pm
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            I don’t take it as serious as you I do. I sleep fine at night. I don’t need to defend the movie. I enjoyed it and was entertained. I feel sorry for you that you didn’t enjoy it and need to vent over the internet crying about it.

          • December 23, 2015 at 4:35 am
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            I don’t think its a huge failure but I agree that the Starkiller Base plot was horrendously handled and brought the entire film way down compared to what it could have been. There was clearly a lot of expository dialogue that was cut out out of a fear of being too much like the prequels. Which is utterly absurd. We knew exactly what was going on and what the stakes were in ANH.

      • December 22, 2015 at 10:05 pm
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        That’s a shame. Arndt’s script was actually better. A Han-Leia reunion would have given us all GOOD tears at Xmas, not this sense of LOSS of Han’s death. I RESENT Han being taken away from us after waiting so long for this film.

        • December 25, 2015 at 6:59 am
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          I think it will be a necessary bad thing… Harrison already said once in an interview he’d only return if they killed him off .. Mark was the main one super anxious to return..

          But I can see why.. he’s been off the mainstream radar for a while and this trilogy is going to be big for him

    • December 22, 2015 at 3:55 pm
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      The characters you cited are moving the story along and they still have at least another movie to develop. This story is about Kylo and Rey’s journeys. If Han makes it out he’s nothing more than Rey’s chauffeur. They could find something for him to do but Finn will presumably fill Han’s role moving forward and his death completes Kylo’s turn to the dark side. I’m sad to see him go but I’d rather they focused on the new characters than juggle 6 major roles for the next 2 movies. I thought it was brilliant.

    • December 25, 2015 at 6:57 am
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      Tragedy can really push a plot line forward… the resistance now has more reason to be upset, Rey was traumatized by it obviously, Chewie… I’m sure Luke won’t be happy to hear of the news.. so it does help to kill off a main character .. especially if it’s unexpected.. I didn’t see it coming until Han started to approach him and he offered his saber to Han ..

      Walking Dead, Game of Thrones.. they do this a lot ..

  • December 22, 2015 at 4:37 am
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    I’d like to see him overthrow Snoke since he seems like a far more interesting character and we’ve never ever seen an apprentice overthrow their master before in the films to take over. It would also be a way to show him to be as powerful as they are building him up to be.

    • December 22, 2015 at 4:39 am
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      Funny to think that he’s the first new Darksider since Episode IV to NOT die in the film he was introduced.

      • December 22, 2015 at 5:05 am
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        Dooku was introduced in II, but did not die until III. Granted didn’t last very long in III…

        • December 22, 2015 at 7:03 am
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          He was so superfluous in it that I forgot about him till now.

      • December 23, 2015 at 3:00 pm
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        Thanks! It’s something we all been dying to see in a dark side user onscreen for ages too. It could go a long way in winning fans over who hate him for what he did to Han or feeling like he came off as a pushover in this one.

    • December 25, 2015 at 6:55 am
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      Technically speaking… Vader did overthrow his master, he just wasn’t alive long after.. besides, he turned to the light side before he did it.. still .. that would be an apprentice killing his master

      • December 25, 2015 at 8:11 am
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        I should have worded that better. He was technically no longer a Sith or Vader anymore when he did.

  • December 22, 2015 at 4:40 am
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    We are in for a huge twist in episode 8 or maybe in 9. Something just doesn’t feel right.
    I’ve seen it two times now and will be seeing it soon again. Anyway, I just have this weird feeling, it was Rey that turned on Luke initially. Not Kylo, or at least not in the same manner. (Snoke turned Kylo to the Dark Side per Leia)

    In interviews and such, like the one above, they always say “a pupil” of Luke’s turned against him and the new academy. They don’t refer to Kylo being the one or naming anyone specific. Even though Rey looked to be maybe 5-7 in that “Force Back” being left on Jakku, it’s possible she started to become angry and raging even as a youth and showed she has more Vader in her than anyone. Maybe she got jealous because Kylo was beginning to live up to someone (Vader) and she wasn’t.

    The way she used her powers and kicked Kylo around makes me feel she has a lot of pent up dark side in her and it could have been why Luke or Han & Leia decided to abandon her. Especially after Kylo already turned and became a Ren, if he is indeed older than Rey. Luke couldn’t have both of those kids turn bad and ruling the galaxy together. That’s too much for the force to handle. It isn’t balanced at all. Which has to be why they hid Rey. Why Luke hid. Why Leia and Han fell apart. I’ll stop here before I continue on a crazy theory rant….

    • December 22, 2015 at 11:30 am
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      That would be such an awesome twist . They have to blank her memory to protect themselves not her

      • December 22, 2015 at 5:12 pm
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        Another wild theory I had was that the way Han tells Leia in the film, “I saw our son”, seems off too. What if Kylo and Rey both belong to Luke. Luke could have been afraid to raise his son and let Han and Leia raise him instead. Which to them makes Kylo their “son”.That would be a big twist for Kylo and us if Luke tells Kylo at some point, “You didn’t kill your father Kylo, he’s right in front of you.” That would be followed by an epic duel between REAL father and son similar to Vader versus Luke, but the other way around. Luke trying to convince his son to turn to the light side and search his true feelings. That would definitely conflict Kylo and would make the twins thing Kathleen Kennedy said really stick. I know these visual dictionary’s and books say one thing but I wouldn’t put it past JJ and Disney to squeeze a twist in to totally jaw drop us from believing what we were told.

    • December 22, 2015 at 3:16 pm
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      Hate to blow up your theory like that, but the visual dictionary for The Force Awakens, which is canon, already confirms it was Kylo Ren who turned against Luke.

      • December 22, 2015 at 4:45 pm
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        And it states that his lightsaber was their bane…so it was personal…not just him betraying them to the KOR or something like that.

        • December 22, 2015 at 5:05 pm
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          Holy crap, we still get to wait for the Knights of Ren and some Jedi (Luke, Rey, maybe Finn, etc.) to go at it in an epic battle!

          Holy Yoda Force Ghost, I can’t wait!

      • December 22, 2015 at 5:02 pm
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        No worries. Thanks, I need to get that book!

    • December 22, 2015 at 3:40 pm
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      I like your theory, but I’m pretty sure its Kylo who turned. What I find most interesting is that we’re told he killed all the pupils. I wonder if he actually was the one to kill them all or if it were the other knights. If he actually did kill a lot of them, I’m interested in that he’s still struggling with the light side by the timeline of TFA. He must really be a basket case. I would also be interested in seeing if they’d reveal in the novel or maybe if JJ or Adam told us exactly what his facial expressions or emotions were during certain scenes in the movie like when he’s on the star destroyer bridge watching the first order base laser arc through space toward the republic systems.

      what i think would be an even ballsier move by disney would be if it turned out to be Ben who turned to the light side in the end and rey who became a dark side user. I don’t know if it was just me but after she has him beat in the snow and was walking toward him she looked so pissed… like she was seriously about to kill him if that crevasse didn’t open up between the two of them.

      also interested in learning snoke’s history. was he one of the teachers at Luke’s academy that seduced Ben? He doesn’t seem like he’s very powerful but we’ve never seen him in person.

      another far fetched theory i was tossing around was could Ben be doing what he’s doing to get close enough to snoke to actually kill him? I haven’t gotten a chance to read the novelization but someone commented earlier saying that Ben and Snoke are clearly aware that Vader betrayed the Emperor. When Ben says he’d finish what Anakin started could it be that he wants to actually destroy the dark side and bring balance but believes the only way to do it is to go down the dark path? Sort of like Lelouch in Code Geass if you’ve ever seen that.

      This is gonna be a fun year for speculation. Think we could see a teaser for Ep VII as early as SW Celebration 2016?

      • December 22, 2015 at 5:01 pm
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        Wow those are some interesting points and theories. Especially that last one. If Kylo is trying to take out Snoke, I’m betting Snoke can feel that. He doesn’t seem to be all powerful but in any case he was somehow interacting with Luke, Leia and Kylo. He seduced Kylo and Kylo turned on his own flesh and blood. I wonder if Snoke is a “Whill” or some type of being who Luke sought for to help rebuild the Jedi. 2016 is going to be one long year my friend.

    • December 23, 2015 at 12:36 am
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      So, she has a lot of dark in her, is partially trained, immensely powerful…and they decided the best course of action was to DUMP her somewhere and not keep tabs on her? No offense, but I hope to god you’re wrong – that’s stupid.

      • December 23, 2015 at 1:16 am
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        Perhaps Tekka was there to keep an eye on her. Someone recently pointed out the planet Luke is on at the end is very close to Jakku on the updated canon map. Regardless, someone dropped her off and left her there and for a very good reason. I’d like to hear why you think she was abandoned on Jakku and by whom.

        • December 25, 2015 at 6:48 am
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          I think Luke left her there, as her father after the academy was destroyed.. I suspect her mom was killed in the raid.. Luke left her on Jakku for her own safety until she was ready .. yes .. with Tekka near by as a mentor .. he then exiled himself and hid his location until she was ready

    • December 23, 2015 at 3:56 pm
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      Pretty crazy theoy. She doesn’t start winning until she calms down. She takes a deep breath and says “the force”. She is clearly lacking in fear and anger that the other Skywalkers had.

    • December 25, 2015 at 6:45 am
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      Wasn’t it said she was left on Jakku when she was 5? .. I think she was Luke’s daughter and after the destruction of the academy he left her on Jakku to keep her safe.. I suspect Luke’s “wife” also died when the academy was destroyed..

      To keep the force in balanace, he hide out his daughter and then exhiled himself with only clues to his location kept in a safe place .. ( a shut down R2 unit that appeared to be corrupted so “it’s likely he would ever be the same” according to 3P0 ) ..

      With Rey being of age, Luke probably sensed her abilities had surged so he used the force to bring R2 back online so he could be located, he probably doesn’t think she’s safe enough to take on Kylo or Snoke alone… I hope we see a lot of Luke training her in 8.. she’s already powerful

  • December 22, 2015 at 7:47 am
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    Get it right

  • December 22, 2015 at 2:21 pm
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    After finally seeing it my only gripe was I felt we needed a bit more pause in the middle and a bit more time for emotional notes to hit. Felt a tad rushed. That said… it’s the best Star Wars we’ve had since the 80s. I liked a whole lot of it… hopefully episode 8 slows down a bit and builds on the characters we started here.

  • December 22, 2015 at 5:18 pm
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    this movie was the worst…I still can’t believe how many like it. It was soo shallow of a story. And a copy and paste plot with so many holes. Glad people liked it, but it’s the end of the road for me. Lost all faith after this mess. Everyone saw Han’s death coming a mile away…no emotion in the scene. I will say that this was Chewies best movie yet.

    • December 22, 2015 at 6:59 pm
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      Buh-bye

    • December 22, 2015 at 7:32 pm
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      End of the road for you huh?… Sure

    • December 25, 2015 at 6:41 am
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      Later! .. I liked it .. it blew away the prequel trilogies and I think there’s still a lot more for this series to offer.. they were kicking off A LOT of events

  • December 22, 2015 at 5:48 pm
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    “We came up with a backstory that Luke had a pupil who turned against him and fought him, and killed all the other pupils, and that was a thing that exploded the family and destroyed Han and Leia’s relationship,” Arndt said.

    LOL you mean the same Kylo Ren who loses to an untrained Rey? Yeah makes lots of sense….

    • December 22, 2015 at 8:10 pm
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      He was heavily weakened by Chewy’s blast to the gut, plus that also says a lot about Rey. There’s obviously much more to her than we know and they wanted to make that abundantly clear.

        • December 25, 2015 at 12:51 pm
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          luke had no laughter in the final moment… so you must mean anything..sorry .. been replying to lots 🙂

    • December 23, 2015 at 12:23 am
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      In the vision she had she was at the site of Academy luke during the massacre probably also was a student, it is younger than the Kylo about 10 years, possible that the age and emotional shock has made it blocks his memories, so she always refused to pick up the light saber

      • December 25, 2015 at 6:39 am
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        I think we’ll find Luke is her father, and he left her on Jakku at such a young age to keep her safe after the academy was destroyed.. I thought it was confirmed in one of the original films that luke was the last, or at least one of the last Jedi .. I also thought I remembered reading that the academy was one he started

    • December 23, 2015 at 12:18 pm
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      She was not really untrained. This wasn’t her first fight ever, she’d clearly been in many fights before on Jaku. Besides that Kylo was hurt, blinded by his hatred (although he did not have the yellow eyes) and she (re)discovered her force powers.

      I just noticed that when she caught the light saber she was holding it wrong. The switch to turn the saber on was on the wrong side.

    • December 25, 2015 at 6:37 am
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      I think Rey may actually be the daughter of Luke which might explain why the force is so strong in her .. she and Leia had an immediate connection with one another.. I think they can sense the force coursing through Rey.. and Luke noticed as well ..

      It also was said in the film that her parents left her on Jakku and that she was sure they would return one day.. that’s why she never left..

      I think Luke left her there to protect her .. that’s my thought

      She learned some of her skills on her own and when she received Luke’s lightsaber she got a flood of memories that weren’t her own

  • December 22, 2015 at 8:36 pm
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    I have a question…in the scene where Kylo and Rey were dueling in the forest, why did Kylo repeatedly hit his abdomen where he was shot by Chewie? I mean they showed he was hurt and bleeding but was Kylo hitting himself to show Rey that he is fine, strong and feels no pain?

    • December 22, 2015 at 8:59 pm
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      It was more like adrenaline, hitting the wound makes him in pain, then makes him more anger, then makes him more tougher I guess.

      • December 23, 2015 at 12:33 am
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        It’s like an arcade game from the ’90s – the more damage you do to the end-boss, the more powerfull it becomes.

      • December 23, 2015 at 7:45 am
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        I actually would say it is a combination of both. I would say that it gave him more anger, while at the same time it would show that the pain did not bother him and in fact did quite the opposite. That’s what I got out of it.

    • December 22, 2015 at 11:42 pm
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      I think he’s just paying homage to Celine Dion.

    • December 25, 2015 at 6:33 am
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      I think the pain is that drives him… it was a masochistic move, and a show of intimidation

  • December 23, 2015 at 2:55 am
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    Emo Kylo Twitter parody account, very funny. Like he wasn’t designed that way on purpose. See Goth Sith design at back of Art Book.

  • December 28, 2015 at 7:12 pm
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    Han shouldn’t have died. What a bummer. Felt depressed after watching this. I liked how Lucas refused to kill main characters. Writers always feel the need to kill main characters. I think it’s too easy for emotional impact. Who knows, maybe Han didn’t die. We never actually saw him perish.

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