Speculation: What is Supreme Leader Snoke REALLY Up To?

SnokeNow that we’ve all seen The Force Awakens and have begun to digest it all, there are a number of lingering, unanswered questions for us to ponder over the next year and a half until Episode 8 opens. Today, I’d like to share my thoughts on a theory I’ve been developing for some time now about one of those questions. Read on for more…


One of the most mysterious new characters introduced in The Force Awakens is, of course, Supreme Leader Snoke. At first glance, of course, the character could be mistaken for a simple replacement for Emperor Palpatine. He is, indeed, very much as the Emperor was when we first met him in The Empire Strikes Back – a withered old creature who clearly wields a great deal of power and influence over the movie’s villains, and who also is aware of the Force and keenly aware of the fact that it runs so strongly in the Skywalker family. He already has one Skywalker in his thall, and wants to destroy any other members of the family who might oppose him.


But there are already some differences that we can see between the two. First of all, Snoke seems to be far more calculating than the Emperor (who, as we learned in Return of the Jedi, was more of a classic, scenery-chewing mustache twirler whose fatal flaw was, as Luke Skywalker pointed out, his own overconfidence.) Snoke, on the other hand, seems more like he’s focused on a long game of some kind. We haven’t gotten a lot of hard evidence of this yet, of course, but he certainly took the destruction of the Starkiller Base in stride at the end of TFA.
hologramThe other difference, and possibly the more important one, is that, whereas the Emperor appeared as a very old man, Snoke looks far more like either a mummified humanoid – or perhaps somebody with a body that is still only partly formed.


It is this latter possibility that I’d like to delve into here.


As I mentioned in my review of The Force Awakens, I get the impression that Snoke may have a completely different goal than Kylo Ren and the First Order believe him to have. His rather dispassionate reaction to the loss of Starkiller Base would appear to lend support to this. So, what DOES Supreme Leader Snoke want?


One of the first things that struck me about Snoke’s appearance when I saw TFA on opening day was that he appeared to have the same massive head wound scar that we saw on Darth Vader when he had Luke remove his mask at the end of ROTJ. Now, this could just be a coincidence, but what if it isn’t? Why would Snoke share a scar with a man who has been dead for over three decades?
VaderLooking a little closer, it also appears that the left side of Snoke’s face is also scarred in a manner that’s more than a little reminiscent of the scars we saw on Vader’s unmasked face.


“So, whaddya sayin’ there, pallie? That Snoke is Darth Vader? Come onnnn!”


No, Snoke isn’t Darth Vader. At least that’s not the theory I’m cobbling together here. But I think Darth Vader could conceivably play a part in why Snoke looks the way he does.


Let me cut right to it. I suspect (and I could very easily be wrong about this) that Snoke is a very, VERY old being who was able to retain his identity and consciousness after death, and who is now in the process of assembling a new body from the Force energy of dead Force users.


Darth Vader Melted Helmet

As we saw in TFA, Kylo Ren has the burnt remains of Darth Vader’s helmet, obviously recovered from the ashes of his funeral pyre on Endor. And there’s his mentor, Snoke, sporting scars that look very much like those that we saw beneath Vader’s helmet when it was finally removed just before his death.


Could Snoke have somehow, through some arcane Force power, connected with and absorbed some sort of residual Force energy from the helmet that Darth Vader wore for all those years? And, furthermore, could Snoke have used that energy to generate part of his current physical form?


Many have speculated that Snoke is in fact Darth Plagueis, the Sith lord Palpatine speaks of to Anakin in Revenge of the Sith. Plagueis, according to Palpatine, had tapped deeply enough into the dark side of the Force that he had gained the power to prevent people from dying. It is also very strongly implied, of course, that he was Palpatine’s master, and that it was Palpatine himself who ended up murdering Plagueis in his sleep. This would certainly seem to dovetail with the notion that Snoke has not only survived death but is also creating a new physical body for himself.


Knights of Ren

I don’t think this is necessarily who Snoke is, though. In fact, I don’t get the impression that Snoke is even a Sith in the first place. For one thing, Kylo Ren isn’t a Sith. He is, as we’ve learned, a member (possibly the leader?) of a group called the Knights of Ren. More importantly, the tie-in books associated with The Force Awakens, including Alan Dean Foster’s novel, indicate that one of the reasons that Snoke chose Kylo Ren as his apprentice is the fact that he embodies a balance of both the dark AND the light sides of the Force. This, to me, doesn’t sound like the person who trained and was ultimately killed by Palpatine.


My theory is that whoever and whatever Snoke is, he is hundreds, and more likely thousands of years old. He may even predate the millennia-long struggle between the Sith and the Jedi. He may have died long ago and is now creating a new body for himself, or (and I think this is more likely) he has quietly been maintaining whatever body he started with all those years ago, by periodically locating a physical artifact that was of particular importance to a now-dead Force user.


I don’t believe this is limited to dark side users, by the way. If it were, I don’t think that the fact that Kylo Ren has both the light and dark sides in him would be of such interest to Snoke. Because, I also suspect that his plan for Kylo Ren is to train him in the Force, and then to absorb his energy too – not just from an artifact of his, but from his body (after he’s dead, or possibly even while he still lives.)


Certainly, this would explain why he has Kylo Ren and the First Order focusing so much effort on finding and killing Luke Skywalker. Not just because Luke poses a threat to them, but because Snoke wants to absorb Luke’s Force energy.


Snoke 02

If there is anything to this little theory of mine, Snoke may look very different by the time he is finally defeated at the end of Episode 9 (as of course he must be.) It could also explain why Snoke is the only TFA character who was always intended to be rendered in CGI. (Maz Kanata was only done in CGI because the production ran out of time to create a costume or puppet version of her, though that was the original plan.) A CGI Snoke means that his appearance can easily be changed to incorporate visual elements of any other character whose Force energy he might absorb.


As I said, I could very easily be completely off base on all of this. We really don’t have much information about Snoke to work with, and there could be something entirely different happening there. And I also think the whole concept is a helluva lot like Voldemort in the Harry Potter stories (so if this IS what Kennedy and company have in mind, I think they need to be very careful to write it in such a way as to clearly differentiate the two.) But I think it’s at least possible that what Snoke is up to is nothing less than immortality fueled by scavenging Force energy from dead Jedi and Sith.


It’d certainly be a different take on the classic Star Wars villain whose primary motivation is something as piddling as galactic domination!


+ posts

173 thoughts on “Speculation: What is Supreme Leader Snoke REALLY Up To?

  • January 8, 2016 at 9:15 pm

    “The Supreme Leader is wise.” – Kylo Ren

  • January 8, 2016 at 9:16 pm

    If your theory is correct then why did he have Kylo / Ben kill off all the other soon to be other Jedi? If he had waited then he would have been able to pick them off one by one and use their combined force energy because each gets stronger in the force as we age. However, that idea might be wrong. It might be each individual is born with a finite force power. So it would not matter when the force ability was transferred. So killing them while young would make sense, Also harvesting planets with the Star killer base also makes sense if he is using the death of billions in the force to use for his own purposes. Then having Kylo even harvest his own Father is interesting twist too. So Snoke is a force Vampire.

    • January 8, 2016 at 10:29 pm

      Maybe they were to weak for Snoke.

    • January 8, 2016 at 10:38 pm

      Some good thoughts here! And this is all just a theory that I’ve been playing with, so as I mention in the article, it may all end up being nonsense.

      BUT… if there’s anything to this theory of mine, you bring up some cool stuff here.

      Why would Snoke have had Kylo/Ben kill the other Jedi before they had reached their full potential? Perhaps there’s a difference in energy between the raw potential of a Jedi apprentice or even a regular old non-Force user, and a Jedi/Sith hero like Vader or Luke who has achieved a sort of “demi-god” status. To roll with your Force Vampire idea (which I think is spot-on) the energy of low-level or non-Force users would provide more general sustenance, and the residual energy of, say, a Jedi master would provide a more specific and tangible “building block” for Snoke’s physical body.

      Perhaps Snoke would need the energy of a mass murder (Luke’s Jedi academy, the Republic capital world, etc.) in order to fuel his “regeneration” process (even though it’s really more of a patchwork quilt sort of thing than an actual regeneration.)

      Of course, now this is all getting too damned complicated – and in Star Wars, the complicated answer to something like this generally isn’t the correct one. But in this case, who knows?

      • January 8, 2016 at 11:59 pm

        I do think you may be onto something with the scars. They do appear to be in similar places. If you have managed to work it out then thats pretty amazing really as they gave us very little information to work with! Id given up on working out who or what Snoke was and had settled on waiting until I saw Episode VIII. Now youve got me thinking again!

        • January 9, 2016 at 12:43 am

          It’s something to have a bit of fun with until Episode 8 comes out, anyway! ;^)

  • January 8, 2016 at 9:22 pm

    not really enough to go on here for snoke outside of the plageius question. they really gave us nothing from him. i do have the impression that his and kylo’s goals might not be the same though. kylo is all about finding luke and finishing what vader started, while snoke seems more interested in just keeping luke out of the way of his master plan.

  • January 8, 2016 at 9:33 pm

    I’m thinking he could be similar to Orochimaru in “Naruto”. He seduces Sasuke to the “dark side” with promises of power. But his true intention is to steal Sasuke’s powerful body (one in a long line of other stolen bodies) to keep his imortality going. Of course, brooding Kylo Ren would play the part of brooding Sasuke in this type of senario. This also plays with what Han said, “Snokes just using you for your power. When he’s done with you, he’ll destroy you.” (paraphrasing)

    …yes, I watch Naruto…

    • January 8, 2016 at 10:28 pm

      OMG, you’re right. Han’s lines might have been a hint at Snoke’s real intentions.

  • January 8, 2016 at 9:35 pm

    Why does Snoke have to be defeated at the end of episode 9? Maybe this trilogy is his rise to power and he will be alive for a whole other trilogy.

    • January 8, 2016 at 9:53 pm

      I’d like to see that.

    • January 8, 2016 at 10:27 pm

      I’d actually like that. And of curse, Disney would be eager to create episodes IX, X, and XI as soon as possible.

      • January 9, 2016 at 1:47 am

        I think you mean X, XI and XII 🙂

      • January 9, 2016 at 5:25 am

        You mean X, XI, and XII. 🙂 And I hope the Star Wars saga will go on that long. I’d like to still be watching new Star Wars movies when I’m old and gray.

  • January 8, 2016 at 9:40 pm

    Interesting theory. I definitely think Snoke has been written off by some a bit prematurely as a lame character. I felt he was interesting , and there is a mystery about him ( shame he’s not really a giant though, that would have been amazing) TBH I found your theory really interesting right up until you dismissed Snoke as Vader. It sounds like a huge plot twist, but understandably some might hate it if things went that way. And it probably wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense haha. But it would be a way to explain how Vader reached out to Kylo (“showing him the power of the dark side”) and how Snoke manipulated him. Perhaps Anakin with good intentions found his way back to the living only to be overwhelmed by the dark side once again, as a half formed version of himself. He is seeking to enhance Kylos powers till he can finally absorb them into his own and fully return to the living. We know Kathleen and co. have a massive hard on for Vader (being an icon and all) so it could be a way for them to return his character ( and possibly set him up to be the focal point of Ep 10-12)

    • January 8, 2016 at 10:22 pm

      I had the same theory of Vader and Snoke and think a clone might be in the mix of things. If Palpatine was in control of the clone army, he was also in control of the creators and had all the DNA he needed of Darth Vadar to create a clone if needed. I know this is going on the path of the Force Unleashed games, (yes not Canon) but a great story and one that can be manipulated from StarKiller to Vadar.
      I agree with the Vadar trying to pull Kylo to the dark side and keep thinking he is going to take over his body when Snokes body is on its last legs.

  • January 8, 2016 at 9:43 pm

    I have a feeling the third, yet to be determined, anthology story will be about Snoke and/or Ben Solo pre-TFA.

  • January 8, 2016 at 9:43 pm

    Snoke is NOT Darth Plagueis. Pablo Hidalgo has publicly shot that down. The music used is a red herring.
    Snoke is a new character. Embrace it.

    • January 8, 2016 at 10:01 pm

      Plagueis is hardly an old character with just a mention in RotS, so if it was him he would be a new character. I’m not saying it is him, but to be honest I wouldn’t believe anything said until an actual reveal.

      • January 9, 2016 at 2:50 am

        Palpatine and Jabba were not shown physically till RoTJ (at least in the original version of the OT) and that didn’t make them new characters when we finally saw them onscreen. Ditto for Plagueis. “New” character means exactly that: someone that’s never been seen or heard of before.

        • January 9, 2016 at 9:36 pm

          Ah righto

    • January 8, 2016 at 10:26 pm

      Pablo might not know all the details. he could also be pulling a “Khan”. I don’t know for sure, but it’s always possible until it’s not.

      • January 10, 2016 at 12:42 am

        Andy Serkis has poured cold water on it too.

    • January 8, 2016 at 10:40 pm

      As I mentioned in the article, I don’t think Snoke is Plagueis either.

      But given the fact that “Snoke = Plagueis” is a thing within the SW fan community, I felt that I ought to address it in the article.

      • January 10, 2016 at 12:41 am

        Nobody said you did.

    • January 9, 2016 at 5:33 am

      Why use theme music for Snoke that is nearly identical to the music for Darth Plagueis if they’re not the same person? I don’t see the point of misleading the audience that way.

      • January 10, 2016 at 12:41 am

        Because the audience 1.) remembers the music used when Palpatine told Anakin about Plagueis and 2.) compares the music side by side.
        Too inside baseball. He is a new character. Serkis has also confirmed it.

  • January 8, 2016 at 9:55 pm

    My concern with this theory is that killing Luke Skywalker is Kylo Ren’s goal, not necessarily Supreme Leader Snoke’s. Snoke doesn’t want Luke Skywalker to return to the galactic scene because it will signal the return of the Jedi, etc. When the First Order is still tracking BB-8 on Jakku, General Hux says if they can’t capture the droid/map, then Snoke wants it destroyed. It’s Kylo Ren who countermands that order. Snoke seems more hesitant to engage Luke Skywalker, whereas Kylo Ren is champing at the bit to find his uncle.

    • January 8, 2016 at 10:52 pm

      Good points. In the context of this theory of mine, Snoke wouldn’t want Luke Skywalker found YET. Because, of course, Snoke isn’t ready for him yet. If he’s still doing things like wringing the dregs of Vader’s Force energy from the remains of his helmet, then he’s still got a way to go. IMHO, his current focus would be on Kylo Ren. Once Kylo grows sufficiently in power, Snoke will know exactly how to defeat him and absorb his energy because as Kylo’s master he knows all of his weaknesses (he’s probably subtly encouraged some of them… you don’t program a system without creating a back door for yourself, after all.)

      I think Snoke wanted Luke to stay right where he was, and then be the one to track him down when the time came. Of course, that plan is in the shitter now that the map has been assembled and Rey has gone to Luke.

      But you’re right – finding Luke now was Kylo Ren’s goal, not Snoke’s. Snoke was very obviously indulging both Kylo Ren and Hux, even though what they were playing at was a child’s game compared to whatever Snoke has in mind. And better to have Luke’s location lost forever by destroying the droid and the map fragment than to have him return to the Resistance.

  • January 8, 2016 at 10:15 pm

    My thinking was also that Snoke’s final goal does not necessarily coincide with KOR and FO and that he is only using them because manipulating fanatics is the easiest thing. I have a feeling that his goal is more mystical and Force oriented at its core.

    Destruction of Starkiller Base disrupted his long laid out plans (“So many plans so carefully laid, so many intentions that must now go unfulfilled…” – novel), but he was most concerned about Luke’s return, not necessarily his death. He was ready to destroy two systems to stop that from happening. For some, reason, he is afraid of Luke and the Jedi – he is not ready for them. The rest of your theory could play into it (though we do not know that at this time). Not to mention that Serkis said that he was vulnerable for some reason.

    We’ll see – we have two more movies to go. ^^

    • January 8, 2016 at 11:42 pm

      Yep. I think that’s the key thing – Snoke isn’t ready for Luke yet. Even though his goals may not be the same as those of Kylo Ren and the First Order, he clearly needs them to achieve whatever his goals may be. If Luke comes back now, he’ll help the Resistance to defeat the First Order – which is, of course, exactly why Leia has been looking for him.

  • January 8, 2016 at 10:17 pm

    Snoke clearly knows that if Luke comes back his plans will be ruined. He seems very afraid that he and Ren aren’t powerful enough to stop him. As to who he really is, I don’t want to be convinced either way because if it doesn’t end up who I think it is, then it will adversely effect how I view the character. So whoever he is, he is.

  • January 8, 2016 at 10:41 pm

    The whole movie is about Kylo Ren’s full transition to the Dark Side, which required him to kill his father in order to do so. This is why Snoke was asking Ren if he would have a problem with retrieving BB, because of his dad. If Snoke wanted both sides of the Force from his minions, he wouldn’t have pushed Ren so far into the Dark Side. So that part of your theory alone is flawed.

    As for the part about Snoke retaining physical aspect. As someone as powerful as him who can siphon the Force from artifacts, out of all people in the Galaxy, why would he want to shape his body after a mutilated one (such as Vader’s)? That would make 0 sense. Again, another flaw. If I were an old powerful Force user, I would just create a new body for myself, not one that has a giant scar on his head. Just sayin’…

    I’m personally starting to doubt that Snoke is Plagueis, or that this new team, will ever really add any of the characters from the EU. Which, in my humble opinion is a HUGE mistake, considering that outside of hardcore fans, the general public doesn’t know jack shit about some of these amazing characters, but that is life..

    • January 8, 2016 at 11:02 pm

      “As someone as powerful as him who can siphon the Force from artifacts, out of all people in the Galaxy, why would he want to shape his body after a mutilated one (such as Vader’s)? That would make 0 sense. Again, another flaw. If I were an old powerful Force user, I would just create a new body for myself, not one that has a giant scar on his head. Just sayin’…”

      If, for some reason, Snoke is forced to work with whatever he can find, then it would make sense of this. Perhaps it’s not just any artifact. Perhaps it only works when it’s an artifact that was party to a major “surge” in Force energy or something along those lines. Vader did something that very few Force users apparently had ever done before – he turned back from the dark side after many, many years, and killed his master (and destroyed the Sith) in the process. Perhaps this generated the kind of residual Force energy that Snoke needed to create a body, whereas Snoke just picking up the lightsaber of any old dead Jedi wouldn’t do the same thing.

      Because yeah, if it were just a matter of “I’m an old and powerful Force user, and I want a new body. I’ll just snap my fingers like so, and WALLAWALLAWASHINGTON!! Dig THIS sexy new bod!” then he wouldn’t have chosen Vader’s disfigured old form.

      IF Snoke’s physical appearance is supposed to resemble Vader, with the scars and all, then it means that whatever he’s doing, it takes a LOT of effort and is something that’s only barely possible even for him to pull off.

      And of course, the scars could just be a big coincidence. ;^)

    • January 8, 2016 at 11:06 pm

      The statement about Snoke considering Ren to be both light and dark comes from other canon materials, including the Visual Dictionary.

  • January 8, 2016 at 10:45 pm

    So snoke is Orochimaru from Naruto

  • January 8, 2016 at 10:56 pm

    Seems incongruous that a Force user’s physical appearance would be replicated in some way when their energy is what’s being absorbed. Vader’s Force ghost exhibited none of his physical form’s wounds, so why would those wounds transfer to the physical form of someone leeching his energy?

    • January 8, 2016 at 11:06 pm

      Vader’s Force ghost was the energy that he took with him when he died.

      Whatever Snoke managed to wring out of his helmet would be the crap energy that Vader left behind. The lingering coarse energy that surrounded his dead body and his armor after he was dead.

      But yeah, this is a very good question. IF the scars are meant to resemble Vader’s, then why would they be there? That’s really the question that started me down this whole path. (Which may be full of blind alleys, or may all be one big blind alley for all I know.)

      • January 8, 2016 at 11:50 pm

        lol “crap energy”

        • January 9, 2016 at 12:42 am


      • January 9, 2016 at 12:17 am

        Who’s to say that Vader became Anakin again? I believe they both exist simultaneously, but that Vader had become strong enough to dominate the body and keep Anakin down until Luke pulled him back up.

  • January 8, 2016 at 11:09 pm

    This article is really reaching at straws to explain what Snoke is after.

    • January 8, 2016 at 11:38 pm

      Hey man, it’s just an idea to kick around for fun. I’m certainly not taking it any more seriously than that. ;^)

      • January 9, 2016 at 4:26 am

        I´m glad for any articles. The more the theories, the more the probability to have a bulseye

  • January 8, 2016 at 11:10 pm

    Isn’t snoke supposed to be 7ft +? Vader wasn’t that tall. I don’t think he’s connected to Vader but I agree that he’s probably an ancient being.

  • January 9, 2016 at 12:00 am

    It’s a long shot but I still think Snoke could be Bane. He’s canon, whether he lived or died previously isn’t an issue because ‘legends’, his presence was active in the clone wars. With the OP’s theroy he could be the force essence/spirit that is described above. They can cherry pick on EU idea’s, doesn’t have to be as obvious as story or characters, but the theory of Sith spirits being resurrected through abosrbing force energy was explored in Star Wars Jedi Academy with Ragnos. The transfer essence ability was prevalent in Darth Banes story.

    There are more straws I could clutch, but food for thought

  • January 9, 2016 at 12:03 am

    I know who Snoke is. Oh haven’t you heard?

    • January 9, 2016 at 1:45 am

      About the bird?

    • January 9, 2016 at 3:41 am

      It’s a battle of words.

      – Pomojema

  • January 9, 2016 at 12:13 am

    Snoke IS Darth Vader.

    *dodges tomatoes* HEAR ME OUT!

    Clearly, Anakin and Vader are seperate entities. Vader was born from the darkness that was building in Anakin since he was young, and it finally took over when he killed Windu. The good man that was Luke’s father didn’t cease to exist, he was just pushed deeply into the body to a point where he couldn’t do anything.

    When Luke finally helped Anakin come back, I think that the same thing happened to Vader. Still exists, but got pushed away. So when his body was cremated, both entities got out. Anakin went to be with Obi-Wan and Yoda, while Vader went to try and regain physical form. Either that, or he’s found a way to interface with technology and project himself holographically.

    He’s going by a new name because he can’t afford to let people know he’s back. He wants Luke out of the picture because he’s a much stronger Jedi now and can’t possibly be defeated. He’s not worried about the Starkiller because it accomplished its most important goal, destroy the Hosnian system.

    • January 9, 2016 at 12:41 am

      That’s an interesting take on the whole thing. You won’t catch me chuckin’ no tomatoes. ;^)

      The problem I have with this theory is that when Obi Wan says that Anakin ceased to exist once he embraced his Darth Vader persona is that this is essentially describing a psychological break, and not a physical one.

      Losing oneself in a Sith title isn’t standard operating procedure when one turns to the dark side. Palpatine was Darth Sidious, but he was also still Palpatine when he needed to be. Dooku was Darth Tyrannus, but still answered to Dooku.

      The difference in Anakin’s case was that he was dealt a massive psychological blow by having his body injured to the point where he was forced to walk around in an iron lung, and more importantly being told by Palpatine that he, Anakin, had murdered his own wife and unborn child in a blind rage.

      As painfully and laughably bad as the “Simpsons ending” Lucas chose to give Anakin/Vader in ROTS may have been, I really think that “NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!” was the moment when he snapped once and for all and his Anakin Skywalker persona “ceased to be”, as Obi Wan would later put it.

      So while I can see a reasonable story justification for there being a bit of “Darth Vader shaped” residual Force energy surrounding his armor after his death, I have a lot more difficult time buying (even in a universe where spaceships explode in space both audibly and with a massive fireball!) that after Anakin remembered himself and cast off his Darth Vader persona, then died and passed to the nether world as Anakin Skywalker, there would have been a second conscious being created in the Force who was literally the Darth Vader persona come to life as its own being.

      Then again, who knows what they’ve dreamed up for the next two movies? ;^)

      • January 9, 2016 at 10:07 am

        “I really think that “NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!” was the moment when he snapped
        once and for all and his Anakin Skywalker persona “ceased to be”, as Obi
        Wan would later put it.”

        I agree with you 100%. If you haven’t already seen it, you’ve got to take a look at this brief excerpt from the new canon Vader comic series. It’s basically the mirror image of that scene. In brilliant writing and art it perfectly captures the moment when Anakin starts to inch his way through the door of Vader’s mind again. In the context of the full story of Darth Vader it’s incredibly poignant and bittersweet: http://imgur.com/gallery/9sIJ6

    • January 9, 2016 at 2:45 am

      I appreciate your theory, and it’s fun to read. But I hope you’re wrong, and here’s why: if Vader is still “evil”, then Luke saving him/ his redemption at the end of ROTJ really loses all of it’s emotional impact. For me that’s the climax of the entire Star Wars story (so far)…

      • January 9, 2016 at 5:08 am

        Honestly, I hope I’m wrong, too. It’d be such a dumb thing to see actually happen. Dead characters should actually stay dead, unlike in Marvel/DC where popular characters have to come back. Besides, I don’t want to see Vader anymore, we’ve already had six films about him.

        This was just a silly theory that popped into my head, and I thought I’d share. =P

  • January 9, 2016 at 12:27 am

    Yes. I think he’s an ancient being basically living through the force. Maybe a force ghost trying to come back from the dead and like u said absorbing power from dead Jedi and sith. He looks too undead to be anything else

  • January 9, 2016 at 12:33 am

    snoke is a shifter.. what other shifter do we know? snoke= zam wesell confirmed.

  • January 9, 2016 at 12:40 am

    Snoke, de Force Vampire… It doesn’t sound good…
    If he was feeding on the energy of dead force users, then he should be a good guy, because on the last decades before TFA there were thousands of dead Jedi (during the Clone Wars and Order 66) and just a few dead Sith.
    I don’t see Snoke as “only partly formed” but just “partly deformed”. Leia knew about Snoke. I bet Luke also knows him. And I bet Luke gave Snoke those scars. I believe that Luke, on his search of ancient sacred places have found in one of such places a very pale, weak and fragile creature (not Gollum) that was imprisoned deep there (by Sidious if he is Plagueis or by someone else for some other reason) or went there to hide. Luke releases Snoke as an act of compassion and to learn from him in order to rebuild the Jedi Order, only to be later betrayed.
    Snoke, the Force Gollum sounds much better! 😉

    • January 9, 2016 at 12:48 am

      “Force Gollum”! I dig it. ;^)

      And yeah, it’s very possible that this is just something that Luke unleashed when he was prowling sacred Jedi sites. We know that Snoke made himself known to Ben Solo, and that Leia (possibly Han too, I can’t remember if he said anything in the movie about it) was aware of the fact that Snoke was trying to get him to turn to the dark side. So it wasn’t just a creeping shadow when Ben turned.

      There’s also something in the novelization where Snoke mentions having watched the rise and fall of the Empire, so I think we can assume that he’s been aware of events around the galaxy for a long time.

      Really, what started me on this theory was noticing the similarity between Snoke’s scars (especially the massive one across the top of his head) and Vader’s scars. If they aren’t meant to be identical, then of course that puts the kibosh on my whole theory here.

      • January 9, 2016 at 1:04 am

        In a way, I’m just trying to avoid any theory that mentions the scars as a key feature because today I heard a theory about time traveling that, if it would became true, I promise I’ll burn all my Star Wars stuff!
        It’s a theory about Snoke being a Kylo from the future based on the similarity of the face scar he gets from Rey and the one that Snoke has. Based on that, an old bad Kylo discovered time travel and went to the past to train himself in a better way… Yikes!…

        • January 9, 2016 at 5:00 am

          Time travel HAVE to be forbidden in Star Wars. Please.

        • January 9, 2016 at 10:03 am

          Yes, I will join you in burning all my Star Wars stuff if that happens. Save that kind of circular narrative / paradox for Doctor Who…

        • January 9, 2016 at 3:19 pm

          So Kylo is smart enough to uncover the secrets of time travel but too dumb to realize he should just go back and kill infant Luke (and maybe Leia)? Yeah, that makes complete sense.

      • January 10, 2016 at 4:26 am

        Snokedemort? (since we’re talking bodily regeneration of an evil dude)

        …or Snokey Potter, since it’s a scar?

    • January 9, 2016 at 2:44 am

      My theory is that Snoke’s “awakening” could’ve come as the result of Anakin bringing balance to the Force. I think he might have pretended to be a Jedi who survived Order 66 to earn Luke’s trust in order to undermine his new Jedi Order from within. But other than those slight differences, I agree 100% with your take on the guy.

    • January 10, 2016 at 4:31 am

      There’s a character in the newish SW novel ‘Aftermath’ who is an advisor of Palpatine’s, who mentions the following:

      “No Sith remains. And the lone Jedi that exists–the son of Anakin Skywalker–possesses an untouchable soul. At least for now. We must instead move towards the dark side. Palpatine felt that the universe beyond the edges of our map was where his power came from. Over the many years he, with our aid, sent men and women beyond known space. They built labs and communication stations on distant moons, asteroids, out there in the wilds. We must follow them. Retreat from the Galaxy. Go out beyond the veil of stars. We must seek the source of the dark side like a man looking for a wellspring of water.”

      More likely (since Aftermath is set immediately after Endor) that Snoke could be the embodiment of that search: an ancient force, older than Sidious/Palpy, who (and this is supported in the film) seemingly dismisses the Sith as a ‘feature on the landscape’ of the dark side, and not necessarily the ‘best’ way to harness such power

      • January 12, 2016 at 1:37 pm

        He doesn’t dismiss the Sith. He dismisses Palpatine. He never explicitly dismisses or mentions the Sith, so that most certainly isn’t demonstrated by the movie. I think you’re going to find that he is a Sith, and this will be revealed in the next film.

        • January 16, 2016 at 8:06 pm

          That would make things tedious & predictable. If you pay attention to the subtler cues hidden in the newer novels / film novelization + the film itself, Snoke likely embodies an ancient, purer ‘dark side’ power, of which the Sith were merely adherants – the holistic dark side, if you like…

        • January 20, 2016 at 4:43 am

          …and if the other tidbits don’t quite sink in, here’s a wee morsel from the brand spankin’-new SW TFA Visual Dictionary from the Kylo Ren pages: “His ability to use the Force grants him many impressive combat skills, but Kylo Ren is no Jedi, nor is he a Sith. He is the archetype of a new generation of Dark Side users that have emerged to fill the void left by the Sith’s demise.”

          So sorry, no – no fanboy Darth Plagueis nonesuch forthcoming. You can go about your business. Move along


        • January 21, 2016 at 2:31 am

          …and because I can’t resist – here’s another entry from the Visual Dictionary’s Kylo Ren pages: “The Supreme Leader believes Ren to be the ideal embodiment of the Force, a focal point of both light and dark side ability…”

          Not a Sith.

  • January 9, 2016 at 12:49 am

    snoke as palpatine???? could it be posible he is so strong he survived the death star explosion. maybe the reason snoke is so tall is because palpatines need new cybernetic legs and the legs made him taller?

  • January 9, 2016 at 1:30 am

    The one person who comes to mind who snoke could be is the Grand Inquisitor..assuming he survived his fall. But if he did, then he would have been able to see the rise and fall of the empire…

  • January 9, 2016 at 2:38 am

    That was a definitely weird article/theory, and highly unlikely. Kasdan did say though that Episode VIII would be “weird”. So, I guess anything is possible !

    • January 9, 2016 at 4:03 am

      That is actually worrisome

      • January 9, 2016 at 7:33 pm

        The less familiar the better imo, WAY too much familiarity in the last film.

  • January 9, 2016 at 2:40 am

    I like the idea of Snoke being a sort of monstrous energetic vampire, but I think he could’ve drawn more than enough energy out of dead Force-sensitive beings during the Jedi purge to fully come back to life.

    The guy seems to be recovering from his injuries and perhaps does need to draw energy from the Force for this. This may be why he was so interested in this “awakening” and also why he pressed Kylo to prove his worth by killing Han, so that the dark side became stronger and helped him to heal faster.

    Whoever he is, I’m almost sure he sustained his injuries fighting Luke at some point, and this is also the reason why he wants Luke destroyed. Snoke knows he’d have little to no chance to defeat Luke if he were to come back.

    • January 9, 2016 at 4:20 am

      You took your words rom my mouth – in Republic era this guy would have thousands of powerful jedi souls to be feed…..and Snokes face seemes to me like a burned face – the same as Anakin´s. It´s burned (ad healed) skin of a human.

      • January 9, 2016 at 4:28 am

        Yeah, his cheek definitely seems to be burnt, probably from a lightsaber (like Kylo’s own cheek after his fight w/Rey). But the scar on his head seems to be a crack more than a burn mark, which would make it different to Anakin’s burnt head. Either way, the guy’s humanoid, no doubt.

    • January 9, 2016 at 4:40 am

      I agree with the part about the Jedi purge.

      • January 9, 2016 at 7:38 pm

        Yeah well, the rest is me just theorizing. Got to think of a way to justify the guy being around since before the CW (and apparently much longer than that, too) in some way, lol.

  • January 9, 2016 at 3:11 am

    Don’t forget the holocron and/or dark side force ghost theories were dismissed by Hidalgo, head of the story group.

  • January 9, 2016 at 3:46 am

    I also noticed by Snoke mouth some skin almost seems like it’s actually burn scars…which vader’s body was burned in the funeral pyre…although arguably since he was a force ghost at the end his body should have disappeared?

  • January 9, 2016 at 4:05 am

    “Maz Kanata was only done in CGI because the production ran out of time to create a costume or puppet version of her, though that was the original plan.”
    Seriously? That doesn’t make any sense to me. ESB puppet Yoda was made in a weekend, AOTC CG Yoda took over a year to create. How long would it take to create a Maz puppet or costume?

    • January 10, 2016 at 12:37 am

      ESB Yoda was a low detail rig not designed for HD (hence why they replaced the model later on). You can tell he was made in a weekend; the rigging is all wrong, the mouth movement is nonsense, and he always moved about in a chair, and never moves much more than his head and his one arm.

      Additionally, the CGI Yoda they made for AOTC didn’t take a year for the model and animation rig. The timings on the Yoda model creation were inflated because they created a new animation platform from the ground up and used him as the proof piece. You have to remember that back then ILM were breaking ground on CGI. These days you can create a far higher res model with far more complex movement and far more depth and scene stickiness using CGI in the same time it’d take you to make a Yoda model of the same quality of TPMs model, which was objectively awful.

  • January 9, 2016 at 4:49 am

    I suspect that Snoke is something that was “awakened” by a battle between the Empire and the Rebellion, maybe on Jakku or Endore.

  • January 9, 2016 at 4:51 am


    As long as we recognize that our wanting to know is a modern luxury/entitlement. Did we demand to know everything about the Emperor’s agenda back when Empire came out? Or what his origins were? No.

    • January 9, 2016 at 4:55 am

      Let the Buzz be with you, my friend.

  • January 9, 2016 at 4:51 am

    for me Snoke is the remnant (ghost ?) of an ancient Sith Lord. And Kylo needs artifacts of the Dark Side to resurrect totally his master. it’s why he is looking of vader lightsaber cause it’s an artifact

    • January 9, 2016 at 5:18 am

      That sounds like Harry Potter and the deathly Hallows, as it was pointing the article.

        • January 9, 2016 at 11:35 am

          I have not read them!

  • January 9, 2016 at 5:07 am

    Why “must” he be defeated? He is way more interesting than Luke or the Jedi for that matter.

    As for Maz Kanata not being a puppet because there wasn’t enough time? You do realize that making a CGI character is a lot harder and time consuming than making a puppet, right?

    • January 9, 2016 at 8:12 am

      You do realise that designing multiple physical prototypes of a puppet that can be fully manipulated the way you want takes a lot longer than designing and animating it on a computer. They obviously broke the production down into things that were achievable in the time they had.

    • January 9, 2016 at 8:17 am

      Yeah but CGI is much better for problem-solving. Puppetry is problematic and unpredictable, where if something goes wrong, it’s back to the drawing board. + The puppeteer having to learn the ‘acting’ all over again for each puppet’s unique controls.
      CGI, once the model is designed, can very quickly be re-routed and course-corrected and instantly tested for feedback without needing to even leave the animation-office. Once you think about the logistics of it, puppets are much slower to finalize and re-design.

      • January 10, 2016 at 12:30 am

        It’s not really any of that, and more to do with the fact that you have to have a finished real model ready by the end of pre-production where you can keep iterating animated rigs and models right through pre-prod, into production and through post-production without impacting the overall timetable for filming and production.

    • January 9, 2016 at 8:20 pm

      “As for Maz Kanata not being a puppet because there wasn’t enough time? You do realize that making a CGI character is a lot harder and time consuming than making a puppet, right?”

      Well, take it up with J.J. and his creature team. I’m just passing along what they said about it (I believe in The Art of The Force Awakens.) ;^)

    • January 10, 2016 at 12:28 am

      Building an animation rig and a 3D texture model takes less time than manufacturing and designing a mechanical rig and creating a real texture costume done well enough for HD.

      You can also do the animation rigging and design in post, where you have to have a real model ready by the end of pre.

  • January 9, 2016 at 6:59 am

    whats wrong with your face?!

    • January 9, 2016 at 10:19 am

      Hail redlettermedia

    • January 9, 2016 at 8:46 pm

      Answer me thing-in-the-mouth face!

      • January 13, 2016 at 11:51 pm

        Email me if want a pizza roll.

  • January 9, 2016 at 8:22 am

    Interesting theory, there are three issues:

    ONE: DNA doesn’t record post-birth scar formations. So it would have to be more of a literal absorbtion—his bones being literally sucked from Anakin’s actual head. Though Snoke’s disfigurement is all at the bone level, the bones are broken, but there’s almost no scars on the skin — so either the injury was caused by a symbiotic representation of someone else’s injury as per your theory, or Snoke WAS actually himself injured, but managed to heal just his skin.

    TWO: They’re not siths, but they ARE evil. Kylo Ren killed his own father just to ensure he wouldn’t deviate from his training, and Snoke probably approves of Kylo’s course of action. That is in no way ‘Light-side’. At all. Unless Snoke is playing the REALLY LONG game, where somehow Kylo turning evil works out for the “greater good.” Which is BS.

    THREE: Voldemort never absorbed anyone.
    You want a pop-culture parallel? Cell from Dragonball Z, super powerful, tall figure whose mission it is to absorb any person they can to further their own strength. Cell’s your man.

    • January 9, 2016 at 9:58 am

      Interestingly, in the schools of mysticism and New Agery that influenced the idea of The Force, it’s actually commonly believed that every person has an “energy body” that exists underneath the physical body and shares it’s physical features, damagings, etc. So this theory would line up perfectly there.

  • January 9, 2016 at 8:34 am

    Let’s not forget that leia knew of Snoke and called him by that name

  • January 9, 2016 at 9:52 am

    I love your theory. Lines up with my own musings.

    “This, to me, doesn’t sound like the person who trained and was ultimately killed by Palpatine…..but maybe, if he is Plagueis, he learned from the Sith’s mistakes in failing to conquer the galaxy and decided to start anew?

  • January 9, 2016 at 10:41 am

    So, this trilogy is the plot of Highlander? 😛

    • January 9, 2016 at 7:31 pm

      We’re in trouble if VIII is as bad as II.

  • January 9, 2016 at 11:43 am

    Snoke being Plaguies makes the most sense out of anything but knowing Disney they will be pussies steal from the character and have him be a “new” character since they are so afraid to touch anything in the prequels. Either that or Disney is too stupid to tie in all three together with a nice bow and a bunch of random coincidences have been occurring pointing towards Plaguies.

  • January 9, 2016 at 2:05 pm

    Snoke is Andy Serkis.

  • January 9, 2016 at 2:55 pm

    My theory is that Snoke is Plagueis and he used the force to create Ben Skywalker/Kylo Ren much in the same way Anakin was made. A married couple won’t usually suspect anything wrong or different if they were going to have a baby. There are some that could say that Palpatine killed Plagueis as he suggested in Episode III, but you can’t expect a powerful Sith that knows the secrets of life to tell his apprentice EVERYTHING can you?

    • January 9, 2016 at 7:31 pm

      I’m not sure about that but McDiarmid did think that Anakin was created by Plagueis which would explain why Kylo has such a man crush on him.

    • January 9, 2016 at 7:34 pm

      No, but I can sure as hell expect a master of deception at Palpatine’s level to lie to Anakin just to seduce the poor guy to the dark side, using his concern for his wife’s life as bait.

      You show me an OFFICIAL, canonical source claiming that Palpatine was actually telling the truth about Plagueis’ alleged power to cheat death and then I’ll consider your theory seriously.

      • January 10, 2016 at 12:24 am

        Well if you’re going to go down that road: Palpatine had a preoccupation with those that seemingly “cheated death”. In TCW, he took Maul prisoner instead of killing him specifically to discover how precisely he had managed to survive his injuries (he got sliced in half, ffs). Further to this, his preoccupation with Vader was for similar reasons; he wanted to understand how Vader had survived and was still surviving wounds that should have killed him.

        Beyond that, if Palpatine was lying about the power to cheat death then he may well have been lying about everything else (including his killing of Plagueis). If it’s anything, he repeats the assertion that Plagueis knew how to cheat death and manipulate the force to create/save life at the end of RotS when Vader asks about Padme.

        • January 10, 2016 at 3:58 am

          Yes, Maul was split in 2 by Obi-Wan in TPM, before falling through a very steep precipice, only to be brought back to life in TCW. A terrible idea in and of itself, but it still doesn’t provide confirmation of anything Palpatine said concerning Plagueis. All this does is prove that a Sith could hide his/her presence to other Force sensitives if/when believed to be death.

          In this case, Snoke could be just like Maul, a former Sith that was believed to be death but wasn’t. He could even have been a former apprentice of Plagueis prior to Sidious or even Plagueis’ master for all we know. Doesn’t necessarily have to be Plagueis himself. And this could work just as well for the general audience, as in those people who only watch the SW films, which is the big majority of moviegoers, as bringing Plagueis back to life.

          In fact, it would be much easier from a storytelling perspective if this were to be the case because it saves the filmmaker time that would otherwise have to be invested in a lengthy explanation to reveal that 1) Snoke is Plagueis, 2) how he survived, and 3) why would the name Darth Plagueis would be important to ANY character in-universe by the time of the ST.

          Yes, Palpatine could’ve lied about killing Plagueis too. I never said otherwise. What’s more, he could’ve made up the whole legend of “Darth Plagueis the Wise” just to lure Anakin to the dark side with the false promise of bringing Padmé back. But when Padmé died, it’s not as if Vader tried to retrieve her body to see if she could be brought back to life. Which means that either Palpatine was lying or that this power was just meant to prevent death and not to bring the death back to life.

          Finally, Palpatine wasn’t stupid. If Plagueis truly existed and his power to cheat death was real, then I’m sure Palpatine would’ve made absolutely positive that his old master couldn’t come back to seek revenge, before making his move. All this would do is tarnish Palpatine’s reputation as one of the greatest villains in the history of fantasy/fiction, if his master could’ve come back at any time to kill him and take over everything that Sidious worked so hard to gain for himself.

          • January 12, 2016 at 1:03 pm

            Your last point is utterly incorrect: Luke Skywalker specifically states that Palpatine’s greatest weakness is his overconfidence, and this is demonstrated throughout the movies. It is his confidence in his position, that he is unassailable, that he is right and everything is in order, that led to his ultimate demise. If he is not capable of seeing that his closest ally and apprentice would turn on him under those circumstances, then the idea that he could be fooled by his former Master is not at all outlandish. He was however very powerful, and if Snoke was at all damaged by Palpatine’s attempt on his life then it stands to reason that he would not directly confront him. You sound like an American, so you may not get this, but sometimes… it is wise not to fight when you don’t know if you can win. Plagueis would have been going up against the combined might of Darth Vader and his former apprentice. Why would he run headlong into that conflict, especially if he could see the complacency that would ultimately lead to his apprentice’s downfall? He is called Darth Plagueis the Wise, and he isn’t called Darth Plagues the Wise because he engages in foolish conflicts.

          • January 12, 2016 at 6:46 pm

            Luke’s observation was just an opinion. And though I agree w/him this doesn’t change the fact that opinions are subjective. Palpatine’s overconfidence was demonstrated throughout the movies, you say? Again, subjective. And I strongly disagree. It wasn’t till his plans came to fruition that he grew bolder, more confident and arrogant, not at first. He was very cautious and stealthy when surrounded by Jedi at all sides. The same could be said about Plagueis, for that matter. Like Luke observed about the Emperor’s overconfidence, Palpatine also noted that Plagueis’ biggest fear was losing his power, which he eventually did.

            No, the idea of Palpatine not being able to see that Plagueis could’ve survived isn’t outlandish. Then again, neither is the idea that Plagueis didn’t see Sidious’ betrayal coming, the same as Palpatine failed to see Vader turning on him in the end. Sith apprentices were supposed to turn on their masters at any given time to assume the mantle of master themselves. This was like second nature to them. How do we know that Plagueis was so powerful? Because of Palpatine’s words to Anakin at the Opera House? Palpatine was a master of deception. The fact that you bought his BS, hook, line & sinker doesn’t mean we can tell for a fact what was true in his tale and what wasn’t.

            No, I’m not an American. English isn’t even my native tongue. This comes to show how you tend to confuse your speculations with fact. Moreover, I’ve read The Art of War. I know it’s wise to run sometimes from a battle to live another day. Doesn’t have anything to do with my nationality, though. I know plenty of Americans have read the book. And these are facts, not speculation.

            If Plagueis was as wise as Palpatine claimed, I’m sure he could’ve found a way to approach Vader and talk him into jumping ship. He didn’t have to confront both Sith. If you were half as smart as you think, you’d see how easy it would’ve been for Plagueis to try this. But if Snoke=Plagueis, then he isn’t as wise as to avoid a foolish conflict. By giving Hux the order to attack the New Republic, he just threw the First Order into a complicated conflict, especially after NOT being able to foresee the possibility that Starkiller could be destroyed.

            But the most important thing that “smart” people like you always overlook is that, even if Palpatine was telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about Plagueis, he NEVER said that “The Wise” had the power to bring the dead back to life. He only said that Plagueis could create life through the Midichlorians and prevent people from dying. Those are 3 very different things.

  • January 9, 2016 at 3:19 pm

    Great article DEKKA129, whoever he turns out to be, I want to see the real power of the dark side unleashed. Hopefully Disney will be bold, with episode IX ending on snoke being victorious.

  • January 9, 2016 at 3:56 pm

    He’s trying to find a more threatening name than Smoke?

  • January 9, 2016 at 4:13 pm

    This theory is very close to mine. There were a few influences in this movie outside of Star Wars. There was a little bit of Lord of the Rings in TFA and I see more of that influence in the future. In fact, Finn’s original name was Sam. I see Finn as Sam in this trilogy. I see Snoke as a Sauron type being.
    I also see him with similarities to Maz, someone very ancient, who is not only about the force. Frankenstein.
    I like that JJ and KK did this. Expanding the universe.

    • January 9, 2016 at 8:17 pm

      I’ve been thinking about Frankenstein’s monster in connection with Snoke too.

  • January 9, 2016 at 4:49 pm

    I still believe it is Plagueis. However JJ has tried to steer clear of any mentions or ties to the PT in which Plagueis belongs to with perhaps the exception of Kylo bitching to Hux about “Clones are better for Snoke than your Stormtrooper goons”. Now, steering clear of the PT could mean 2 things

    1) JJ wants this new trilogy to have its own backstory that doesn’t draw from the much hated PT. The backstory will be the OT and all the material asscociated with it.

    2) JJ wants the new trilogy to draw from the PT but just not yet as it was not the Force Awakens’ job to do that. TFA was suppposed to bring back the OT feeling and it delivered on that front. So it’s not that JJ wants the new movies seperate from the PT, just TFA which was a huge investment risk from Disney’s part and had to be played safe. And in fact that’s what it did, it did not copy, it mirrored ANH.

    I think explanation No. 2 is far more likely and here is why.

    So my theory is that by the time we see the ending credits of Episode 8, we will have our first major connection with the PT and that would be Darth Plagueis.

    Here is the rule of my theory:

    For the balance to be maintaind BOTH sides must have acitve presence in the Galaxy. If one reigns supreme with the other dormant then we have imbalance. The Propehcy was misread Yoda says in the PT. Yes it was, it was a Prophecy of the eradication of BOTH sides not just the Sith (which in fact came true) so that there will be no active Jedi and no active Sith and the Galaxy can finally be at peace.

    There has also been the very rightly so coutner arguement: If Plagueis survived, then did Vader’s sacrifice to destroy all Sith as the Chosen One was in the end in vain?

    NO. Anakin fullfilled his purpose. He restored balance to the Force which Lor San Teka confirms in TFA: Wihtout the Jedi there can be no Balance in the Force. As the Jedi are extinct with a vanished Luke and the Dark Side gains strength via a Snoke and Kylo, the Force is once again out of Balance.

    Remember my rule: For the balance to be maintaind BOTH sides must have acitve presence in the Galaxy OR BOTH sides are dormant. Active means actually ruling the Galaxy and Dormant means staying in the shadows in hopes to once again be on the driver’s seat. So here this is how it goes

    PT I and II –> The Force has been out of Balance for more than 1000 years with the Repubic flourishing under the watchful eye of an empowered and numerous Jedi Order. The Jedi reign actively supreme and the Sith Lords, following Darth Bane’s command “The rule of the 2” secretely plot to destroy it but are dormant since they don’t make any direct moves.

    PT III —> The Chosen One gives rise to the Dark Side, awakening it and the Light is eradicated via Order 66. The Force not only does it not balance, it is flipped upside down and now the Sith reign supreme, still following the rule of the 2 however which is an element that always puts the DS at a disadvantage in case BOTH DS members, Master and Apprentice die. Remember in Qui Gon’s funeral Yoda and Windu discussing that? Who did die? Master or Apprentice?

    OT AHN and ESB —> The Light is Dormant and Luke begins his journey in a Galaxy ruled by the Dark.

    OT ROJ —>The Force is in Balance. Vader and the Emperor are dead. All Jedi and Sith are extinct with the exception of Luke who is only one, doesn’t want to be the new Emperor since he resisted the DS and doesn’t train anyone yet so he is inactive and Snoke who is also inactive but alive. BOTH sides are dormant. Leia doesn’t count as is revealed in TFA, she is not an active force user during that time, just a general.

    ST Between ROJ and TFA —> Luke starts unknowingly to unbalance the Force by strating a Jedi Academy and the Jedi start to reign supreme again while the Dark is dormant, with only Snoke on the sidelines. Snoke sees an opportunity to continue the Rule of the 2 and seduces Ben Solo who then readicates the New Jedi Order and the Light is extinct again.

    The Dark Side starts to reign supreme again and the First Order is born. We don’t get to see this as we didn’t get to see the events before TPM, it makes sense, it would be kinda boring. I still hope they make a live action series about Kylo Ren as a Jedi apprentice however.

    Episodes 8 and 9 –> It’s Rey’s job to retore Balance and it’s Lukes job to tell her how the Balance works (which I hope is how I am explaining it here). My theory is that she will have to chose the way the Balance will be resotred. Both sides active, continuing the spiral of violence and destruction in the Galaxy which is the agressive form of the Force in Balance OR both Sides fade and stay dormant which is the “right” form of Balance as there are no Force users to wage war?

    I think that in Episode 9 Rey and Luke will have the chance to kill Snoke but they won’t because killing him might upset the Balance he held for so long. Luke must know by now how the Balance works and that may be the reason he doesn’t want to start a New Academy after the tragedy it befelled his first attempt. If he kils Snoke then the Dark Side might find more sinister ways to reappear in the Galaxy, Maz Kanata says that the DS takes many forms, the Sith, the Empire the First Order.

    Kylo then will kill Snoke since he will be in a moment of pure weakness, in either an epic moment of Light or Darkness, therefore upsetting the Balance completely as he is the sole representative now of the DS. Then Rey will kill him and Luke will try to stop her beause the Balance will be completely ruined if BOTH Kylo and Snoke are dead. He will fail however and Kylo will kill him as well because there will be an opening available. Then it’s only him and Rey as forshadowed in the end of TFA when the land split between them.

    Either if I am wrong (which I certainly am in many key points i am sure) or right, it is my bet that the Force will be out of Balance by the end of this new Trilogy just as in the PT and then we will have Episodes 10 to 12 to see how the Force is restored to an agressive or “true” Balance. However I think that the point is for one side to always reign supreme and the other to be dormant so we have more and more movies to watch which is fine. “True Balance is a Galaxy with no Force users, dark or light so it would be a boring place to live.

    My bet is that a Sith fleet will appear from deep space and wage war to the Galaxy as in SWTOR if both Kylo and Snoke die in this new Trilogy and the Dark Side will remain with no representatives either active or dormant. Then things would get far more interesting.

    In the context of this weak theory I think that Snoke is indeed Plagueis and there is no reason for Anakin’s sacrifice to be in vain as the Balance of the Force is a concept misread by both sides which end up destroying one antoher in a vicious cycle of pure mutual destruction epicness.

    What do you guys think? is there a possibility for the trilogy to go that way?

    • January 10, 2016 at 12:18 am

      JJ is ONLY attached to Episode 7.

      He has no role whatsoever in Episode 8 or 9, and has no role in the Story Group at LF who are tasked with writing the overarching story for the trilogy and the wider Star Wars franchise.

      JJ’s function within the Star Wars franchise began when he started with his work on Episode 7 and ends with his work on Episode 7.

      • January 10, 2016 at 1:52 am

        He’s producing 8, actually.

        • January 12, 2016 at 1:06 pm

          Bob Iger has said he’s not involved. They had an argument, and Disney told him to piss off.

  • January 9, 2016 at 5:22 pm

    Going on this hypothesis, would you consider Snoke being Darth Bane? Remember even though the books are not canon anymore his character was brought into cannon in The Clone Wars. Maybe Bane was not happy with the way the Sith turned out by the time of the OT and now he’s planning on taking matters into his own hands so to say?

    • January 9, 2016 at 8:15 pm

      I’ve thought of that, and I think it’s very possible. Maybe it’s just the old rumor of Episode 7 being titled “The Ancient Fear” getting stuck in my head, but I just get this feeling that Snoke is incredibly old and has watched the galactic power struggle ebb and flow for a long, long time.

      Bane could fit the bill, for sure. Or, Snoke could even be somebody who predates Bane. But I think you’re on the right track here.

    • January 10, 2016 at 12:17 am

      Bane was brought in in TCW, and his character was established as definitely dead in no uncertain terms in TCW as well. So no, he’s not Bane.

      • January 10, 2016 at 1:52 am

        If they want to bring him back, they can find a way to bring him back.

  • January 9, 2016 at 5:42 pm

    We may know that Kylo isn’t a Sith, but we don’t whether or not Snoke is. It could well be that the Knights of Ren are a continuation of the Inquisitors, and final (?) words of Snoke that he is summoning Kylo to ‘complete his training’ is to upgrade him from ‘inquisitor’ to ‘number 2 Sith’. Perhaps killing his father was the necessary ‘test’ that he was fully consumed by the Dark Side and wouldn’t make the same ‘mistake’ as his GrandFather and return to the Light and the Sith lineage.

    • January 10, 2016 at 12:16 am

      We know that Kylo isn’t a Sith in Episode 7, and that’s it. The implication has always been that he’s an emergent villain, so he’ll likely become a Sith in Episode 8.

  • January 9, 2016 at 6:17 pm


  • January 9, 2016 at 7:29 pm

    Most disappointing new character in the trilogy thus far from his look to dialogue to all of his scenes. I really hope Rian can inject some much needed life into him or just have Kylo slice him up into pieces and take over whatever dark side sect they are a part of.

    • January 9, 2016 at 8:43 pm

      You’ve literally seen fiveminutes of him. He’s about as cool as the Emperor was in Empire.

      • January 9, 2016 at 9:00 pm

        Nah, Clive Revill and Ian McDiarmid are actor’s actors. Serkiss is no hack but he’s always been a character actor at best. Plus Sidious and Monkeyface Palpatine were truly original makeup designs while Snoke just looks like Anakin/Plagueis. His voice is not as mellifulous as theirs are either so I hope they re-evaluate how he’s portrayed in the next ones.

        • January 9, 2016 at 9:25 pm

          Is complaining all you know how to do? I’m not even trying to shut you up, I’m serioiusly asking. Nearly every comment of yours consists of you finding a new way to be unsatisfied. Just be chill, jeez.

          • January 9, 2016 at 9:29 pm

            His “complaining” is legitimate. It’s you fanboys who have the problem. You can’t handle opposite views, even ones that point out the Death Star sized holes in this assembly-line created film.

          • January 9, 2016 at 9:41 pm

            Really explains why politics and religion are such a problem today if people are so defensive over fictional films.

          • January 10, 2016 at 12:15 am

            Boy howdy! ;^)

          • January 11, 2016 at 1:23 pm

            Now I see why all my psych student/psychologist friends are all so drawn to forum culture.

          • January 10, 2016 at 1:51 am

            And now you’ve gone completely insane.

          • January 10, 2016 at 1:51 am

            I can handle them. What I can’t handle is them being regurgitated about 30 times a day by the same haters who still bother sticking around here for some reason.

          • January 9, 2016 at 9:42 pm

            You don’t have to read them and I’d much rather talk about the upcoming films but information is sparse on those now so all we got to go on is TFA.

        • January 9, 2016 at 9:26 pm

          Yep. I heard Ceasar’s voice come out of Snoke, and took me right out of the movie. So, apparently, the only person a studio can hire to do motion capture for any major character is Sirkiss? And Hollywood wonders why they’re doing so bad, financially. Reboots, rehashes and reused actors abound. You’d think there weren’t any other actors in Hollywood, the way they reuse people.

          • January 9, 2016 at 9:40 pm

            Exactly! He’s a great performance artist but he isn’t a true thespian either especially compared to masters like McDiarmid who can make any fiom they are in interesting.

          • January 10, 2016 at 1:50 am

            You lost me at “doing so bad financially”. The worldwide box office hit a record $11 BILLION this year. Out of the top 10 highest grossing films of all time, 4 of them are from this year.

  • January 9, 2016 at 9:39 pm

    Maybe he was regrown from Luke’s hand? Oh, no! Now I’ve done it! Given more fodder to the speculation addicts! I’m gonna save the link to this page and revisit it in a year and a half to get a laugh at how completely wrong this article was. The truth is: there is no plan. They are making it up as they go to keep taking your money every two years. The film gave so little in terms of character development or exposition to derive ANY speculation on who this character is. Only those with no life have time to fill their heads for years guessing at the unguessable.

    • January 10, 2016 at 12:14 am

      And yet, here you are, posting right along with all of us no-life yutzes. ;^)

    • January 10, 2016 at 1:43 am

      I highly doubt that they’re making this up as they go along. In fact, it’s probable that they have quite a bit of the story laid out already, all the way into IX. And may I also say, Snoke is a puppet master-esque background villain. We won’t see much of him until VIII or IX. The Emperor made his firs appearance in Episode V, with no character development or memorable lines at all. His look, voice, and character were all changed in the following movie as well, and yet, we still love him. So calm your tits.

  • January 9, 2016 at 11:14 pm

    Him being Plagueis would make the most sense, however, I don’t think he is. It fits well but I don’t believe the new writers and producers know anything about Star Wars beyond a casual viewing of the movies a few times. More likely he’s something new and his back history will be told to us through books, just like the Emperor before the prequels. Most viewers already know everything they want about him, he’s the bad guys boss.

    • January 10, 2016 at 12:13 am

      You clearly haven’t read any of the EU. The new movie riffs off loads of EU stories set directly after the original trilogy, retuned and retconned into a new story. It isn’t even a vague link either; both Rey and Ren are near-carbon copes of characters from the EU, and Snoke’s role in turning Ren (as well as his general attitude and characterisation) is an amalgam of several EU Sith Lords from post-OT novels (including Lumiya, who turned Jacen Solo, who is the basis for Kylo Ren).

      The Story Group, who are in charge of the overarching story, are well aware of the entire EU timeline, and they’re the ones who control what’s going on. Abrahms overplayed his involvement in the process; he and his team were literally writing a script based on directions handed down to them by the Story Group at LF. Kasdan, who’s been intimately involved in Star Wars since its inception, DEFINITELY knows who Plagueis is, because it was in one of the scripts for one of the other films he helped George Lucas write 😉

      • January 10, 2016 at 7:14 am

        Wasn’t Kasdan super confused about who Plagueis was when asked about him? He didn’t have anything to do with ROTS from what I understand too. The theme’s in the film parallel some EU stories to be sure, not the political situation though. However, the EU also take its theme’s from the OT which this movie is really taking its queues from. The EU also came from seeing Lucas’s original outlines, JJ and Kasdan also studied those. I would prefer your thoughts to be right, I have a strong suspicion mine are though but I’d be alright with being wrong.

        • January 10, 2016 at 7:41 am

          He said “Darth Vegas?” and just kind of didn’t answer the question. i get the feeling he was dodging it on purpose.

          • January 10, 2016 at 8:04 am

            I kind of thought the same at first. When I watched it though it was obvious he was legit confused, no one at the table knew who that was either. It makes sense that they wouldn’t though, they aren’t hard core fans, my siblings would have the same reaction.

        • January 12, 2016 at 12:48 pm

          No. The dude asked whether Snoke was Darth Plagueis, Daisy said “Is that…?” and then looked over to Abrahms, who then shut down the dude who plays Finn before he could answer and threw the question to Kasdan, who smiled and said, “Darth… Vegas?” Basically, they shut the question down without answering it. Kasdan knows who Plagueis is; he worked closely with GL (who mentioned Plagueis lots during story work for the prequel films (he was supposed to be in The Phantom Menace, not ROTS, but was dropped in the end) and the story team at LF, and he’s intimately familiar with the Star Wars lore impacting all of the films (he wrote three of them based off of GLs notes, so he’s well aware of who Plagueis is, and he’s discussed the EU lore in the past, before Disney bought LA).

          When I speak about the move taking queues from the EU, I’m not talking about themes. I’m talking about the very specific characters that were most certainly not lifted from the OT. Kylo Ren (Ben Solo) for example is heavily based on Jacen Solo and named after Ben Skywalker (which is a nod to the duality of the character, as Jacen turned to the Dark Side in much the same way Kylo did, with Ben Skywalker being Light Side, thematically representing the conflict that the character goes through in TFA). Snoke’s role in turning Ben Solo is a mirror of Luminya’s role in turning Jacen Solo in the EU, and his characterisation and the way he is presented is very, very similar to Luminya. Even the more heavy “middle ages” theme – as opposed to the Samurai/Asian themes of the originals and prequels – in the new trilogy is taken from the EU books that are set directly after the OT. The film also takes a lot of queues from the Knights of the Old Republic era, especially when it comes to the stylings of Kylo Ren and his lightsaber, and the new emphasis being placed on the more “artefact” orientated side of Star Wars lore, as well as with Ren (who bears a striking and not-at-all coincidental resemblance to Bastilla Shan, including in her abilities with the force). It doesn’t stop there, however; Rogue One is looking like it’s based on the Rogue Squadron novels, and will likely take it’s visual queues from the X-Wing and Tie Fighter games.

          I think Abrahms and Disney are trying to throw “fans” (old school EU types) off the sent by saying they’re steering away from the EU. The parallels, not just in the characters but also in the story, suggest the total opposite, and it lends credence to the idea that the new trilogy is a derivative work that cherry picks the stronger aspects of the EU and rewrites them into the new trilogy; that resonates with old school fans. I think that will become clearer in the second film in the new trilogy, and fans will start jumping on EU “Legends” content to see if they can figure out where this thing is going. It’s a similar hook to the way they’re playing up the mystery surrounding Snoke and his identity without explicitly saying that there’s anything there. It’s interesting to note that they’ve never denied any of the stronger observations of this kind (and they have outright denied some stuff, which suggests that there’s probably a high degree of truth involved here).

  • January 9, 2016 at 11:27 pm

    Cool and interesting theory

  • January 10, 2016 at 1:38 am

    I don’t think J.J. is creative enough for Snoke to be anything but the villain “flavor-of-the-month” bent on galactic conquest. I’d like him to be Plageus, but I don’t even think that’ll happen (from what I’ve read from Serkis and Kasdan.) So, they’ll end up ret-conning him in somehow.

    • January 10, 2016 at 1:40 am

      You say that, and yet Kylo is a super cool and complicated villain. If he’s done right, I bet Snoke will be too.

      • January 10, 2016 at 1:41 am

        Kylo is just the embodiment of all the whiny fan-boys that JJ has to deal with. Nothing really creative about that.

        • January 10, 2016 at 1:46 am

          I don’t like calling people trolls, but I swear you’re legitimately trolling right now. Kylo has an inner battle and is a complicated character that has no true equivalent in the Star wars canon. Nearly every person who has seen the movie agrees with that, and you’re in the vast minority in calling him whiny or uncreative. I suggest you get over yourself and start judging this movie and its characters by their own merit instead of by your blind hatred that only exists to make you feel better about yourself and your individuality.

        • January 10, 2016 at 10:52 am

          clearly you don’t read anything about what’s happening. kylo ren is exactly how he needed to be. in too many films and even trilogies the villains are already fully formed. this trilogy is supposed to show transformation. he’s already explicitly stated that he wants the audience to see how a person becomes a villain. that ben’s journey mimics luke’s. Ben just burn whatever bridge he may have with his mom and uncle. 8 and 9 will show him become the villain they’ve already planned for him to be. and even then, anything can happen to villains who have skywalker blood flowing through them because regardless of whether they walk the light or dark path, they are destined to change the galaxy in one way or another. stop being a whiny fan boy and wait till the complete trilogy is out to make any judgement calls. If i was standing behind da vinci in the first phases of him drawing an invention i could easily call it bullcrap. if i was listening to early pink floyd song ideas i could easily say they sound like crap. anyone can call the beginning stages of anything crap. but if its meant to be a part of a greater whole what’s the point in judging it until it is complete.

    • January 10, 2016 at 4:47 am

      I think J.J. is plenty creative enough. Thank god you’re not writing these movies.

  • January 10, 2016 at 4:42 am

    Interesting. Kind of fits with kasdan’s description of Rian johnson’s script for episode 8 being “weird”.

  • January 10, 2016 at 4:51 am

    How in the world can you say Palpatine isn’t as calculating as Snoke when we’ve seen three films that featured his calculations coming to fruition? We saw him go from a Naboo senator to Emperor while waging a false war to ascend to the very top. Snoke still has a long way to go to match Palpatine’s body of work.

    • January 11, 2016 at 1:12 am

      Palpatine-cold, calculated and confident.

  • January 10, 2016 at 11:42 am

    My pet theory is that Snoke is Kylo Ren from the future. While I don’t actually believe this, since Star Wars hasn’t done time travel, it’s been fun to imagine. It’s funny that DEKKA129 pointed out the scar and it’s similarity to Vader’s. On my first viewing I was noticing that the scar Kylo received on his face followed the same basic path of Snoke’s. What if Snoke is somehow Kylo from a future much different from this one; a future where Kylo never killed Han (hence Snoke tells Kylo that this will be his most difficult test so far). Maybe when Snoke was Kylo’s age, he was a Jedi hero along with all of the other new Jedi, and it wasn’t until very late in his life that he turned evil. He realized that the new Jedi order created by Luke were unbeatable so he either physically goes back in time or somehow “Force Ghosts” his spirit back in time to change the events of his life to have the new Jedi Order killed in it’s infancy, and later to have his own father killed (something he himself was never able to work up the darkness to do). It’s just a fun little sci-fi thought. Time travel can get pretty played out in sci-fi and there’s no real precedent for it in Star Wars, but I’ve enjoyed creating this whole convoluted scenario in my mind based simply on a shared scar seen in a couple minutes of screen time.

  • January 10, 2016 at 8:21 pm

    No, I don’t agree with any of this speculation. This is fanboi stuff. Not to mention that saying Snoke (based on such limited knowledge) is more calculating and has more of a long-term endgame than Palpatine is just plain wrong. Sheev had the most audacious and calculating long-term endgame of any Sith. Overconfidence certainly did become his weakness, but only after 30+ years after destroying nearly every Jedi in the galaxy. (Which we now know numbered around 10,000, according to the canon comic Obi-Wan & Anakin.)

  • January 11, 2016 at 1:11 am

    My latest theory is that Snoke was completely made up by Luke to find out which of his new students were tempted by the dark side.Once Ben was lured, he began exploring his Grandfather.Luke felt so betrayed and deflated, that he went into hiding, but researched his actions in the Jedi Temple.Either that, or Plageious is back, and is trying to resemble his students idol.But he cant be a Sith ghost right? Hux couldnt see him if he was.

  • January 11, 2016 at 5:08 pm

    He’s just a face for the midiclorians.

  • January 11, 2016 at 7:16 pm

    If this theory is right, could that maybe mean that he is the Son of the Ones?
    Such a character could be strong enough to surpass death and he already had accomplished a connection to skywalker during the clone wars.
    Also the awakening could refer to Abeloth, as she was awakened in the expanded universe, when Ben went to the dark side as well… So maybe with the true commitment to the dark side of Kylo Ren, she could be awakened, thus we have our plot for the complete third saga…. And maybe Rey and Kylo have to work together to overcome the bringer of chaos….
    Like to hear your oppinions on my theory and thanks for your theory DEKKA ;D

  • January 11, 2016 at 7:21 pm

    Could this tie in with the Vader sympathizers who buy his lightsaber in “Aftermath?”

  • January 11, 2016 at 7:28 pm

    Could this theory tie in with the group that buys Vader’s lightsaber in “Aftermath,” in hopes of bringing him back?

  • January 19, 2016 at 12:02 am

    Not fan of this theory… It feels a lot like the horcruxes from Harry Potter…

Comments are closed.