The Last Jedi: Rian Johnson Changed Kylo Ren’s TIE Silencer After Seeing One of the Toys
Don’t ever accuse Rian Johnson of not paying attention to detail. Mid-way through production of The Last Jedi, Johnson was given a toy of Kylo Ren’s TIE Silencer and he noticed that it had a design error which would disrupt the continuity of the original design that was in the film, so he decided to make a change!
Knowing the toys were already manufactured, and probably appreciating and respecting the attention kids and toy collectors pay to detail, Rian Johnson actually changed the movie to match the toy!
At the VFX (Visual Effects) Festival in East London last week, the VFX Supervisor for Industrial Light and Magic (ILM) Mike Mulholland explained the rather humorous situation:
“Initially, the plan was to have missiles on the underside, and shoot them off, and that was it. But halfway through production Rian got a toy, a prototype toy of the Kylo fighter. And they had the missiles on the side wings! So we went and redesigned a bit of it [in the movie] so that we could open it up and pop them out. I’ve heard of the toys’ influence in the past, but that was the first time for me,” Mulholland laughed.
The only time we see the TIE Silencer is in the beginning of the film, on the attack of the Resistance ship, when Ren has that moment with Leia which causes him to hesitate from firing upon her ship.
In addition to this loyal attention to detail and respecting the toys, Johnson also wanted to implement and old school approach to creating space battles, wanting to create them using actual models versus computer generated ships. It turns out the cost and know-how was no longer a reality though according to Mulholland:
“In early conversations with Rian and his producer Ram [Bergman], the question was, ‘How much can we do practically for the space battles? To get it kind of feeling like the original trilogy.’ That was investigated and discussed. It was a kind of an exercise in working out who could do it practically, who’s actually got the knowledge, the know-how and the time to do it, and how much it would cost. The quick answer is, it’s quicker and easier and more flexible to do it in CG. So we were tackling it that way.”
I know how big of a deal Star Wars toys have been for decades, but this takes it to a new level! J.J. Abrams better keep his eye on the upcoming toy lines as he begins production on Episode IX this summer!
SOURCE: Radio Times
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If it was a prototype, then it wouldn’t have already been in production?
Sounds more like he preferred the look of the toy to what had previously been agreed and changed it for that reason.
I wish he would have watched his movie critically and informed Disney he messed up royally. That he killed everything cool about Ep. 7 and decided to instead make another reboot plagiarized piece of dog poop.
Episode 7 was a hell of a lot more derivative than TLJ was.
Wish in one hand. Crap in the other. Let me know which one fills up first.
I’ve never seen a sequel try so hard to UN DO it’s predecessor as this. It was really embarrassing, as an invested fan, to watch Rian pissing all over Ep 7 for an over-long 2.5 hours.
Please expound, Kent. In what way was anything undone?
I do agree that some of the setup, particularly Rey’s origins, didn’t get the treatment I had hoped it would get…so for me, a little unfulfilled. Rey needs to be sel-reliant. Great messagd but, not very exciting. I wouldn’t say RJ was undoing Episode VII or embarassing (or too long), but he didn’t use some of the setups.
At times it feels a little like the sole objective was to surprise at all costs.
“At times it feels a little like the sole objective was to surprise at all costs.”
Yes! I completely agree. Not that it’s necessarily a bad thing, but you gotta make your surprises fit well with the narrative foundation that has already been established. Rian seemed uninterested in doing this. He seemed to care more about getting his “Gotcha!” moments with the audience, and getting a lot of them….
What was cool? Snokes origins? Who you imagined Rey’s parents were?
Literally…what?
Loved the space battles in The Last Jedi. Best battles since Return of the Jedi.
Absolutely. The Resistance Bomber is classic!
Couldn’t disagree more!! Although the space battle in TLJ was ok. The one in R1 was far better. By a mile!
I think Kenny was commenting on the design of the aforementioned ship. Not the space battle in which it appeared. The battle in Rogue One was better but it was also the climax of the film and not the opening scene.
Mmm I may be wrong but I don’t think he did. He said TLJ space battles were the best since ROTJ not that the design of the ships were the best since ROTJ. If he had I would agree.
I stated that the Resistence Bomber is classic. To which he replied that he couldn’t agree more and then you followed with your disagreement. If your intent was to disagree with his statement on the space battles it’s on that comment which you should have responded and not his response to my statement.
Yes I do apologise. I responded to the wrong comment. It was meant to be his previous one where he stated that the space battle in TLJ was the best since ROTJ.
Couldn’t agree with you more.
Really? One X-wing that can’t be shot down because its to small for their laser canons, that drives like a fast a furious car. A space battle that is a slow chase. Just shoot at their shields til they run out of fuel. Bombers that are as fast as a snail that are easily destroyed just to create the suspend for one of the Tico sisters. Space battles were definitely not comparable to RoJ
The dramatic tension with the bombers has not been rivalled since the “it’s a trap” assault on the Death Star 2. Throw in the scenes with Kylo Ren in his silencer.
Rian Johnson did us all proud.
I guess I was to busy questioning what was actually happening than feeling the dramatic tension. Like how is the girl breathing in space, there is no visible ray shield? Or, how are those bombs falling in 0 gravity? Is it magnets, no then they would have just stuck to the ship their in. Is it propelled some how? No they just look like there falling….
This has been discussed to death…but if you buy the idea of artificial gravity, then the bombs simply slide down the racks to drop towards the floor. After passing the usual BS vacuum sealed Star Wars shield, why would they stop at all? Of all the things to criticize, this one bugs me the most.
Agreed! Although I have issues with TLJ the science isn’t one of them. Star Wars never has and never will be one to strictly follow scientific rules! Star Wars is space fantasy. It’s a crazy thing to criticise!
Yeah as someone who didn’t care for TLJ… the entire opening battle IMO was perfectly fine. One of my favorite parts actually. To me the bombers getting shredded was just proof of their desperation and willingness to follow Poe into any fray. Seriously… I loved that part of the movie.
I also think Rogue One’s final 30 to 35 minutes was some of the best Star Wars action to date. I’ve rewatched it so many times. Freaking beautiful from a tactical and visual standpoint.
There is a small side of me that has an element of pity for those that had a negative experience to The Last Jedi. But, as in life, you take the rough with the smooth.
The bomber run was good but I thought the space battle in R1 was far superior. As for Kylo Ren in his silencer, that wasn’t even a battle and boring as f. We already knew he was going to hesitate to fire on Leia from the trailer and they took out the resistance fighters without any battle. They then got called back to their fleet! Yawn.
R1 may be superior to them all
I have very little memories of the Rogue One space battles. Recall the Gold Leader unused footage from A New Hope, which was seamlessly spliced into the movie (one of my favourite scenes), but the rest of it was pretty generic SW, ending with the contrived destruction of the shield.
If I had any emotional attachment to any of the Rogue One characters, I may have felt differently.
Wow really. It wasn’t contrived at all. I thought it was a well thought out plan to destroy the shield. Especially using the hammerheads that we’d seen in rebels, which was a great tie in. What emotional attachment did you have to anyone on the bombing run? We didn’t know any of those characters. Now if they’d used members of black squadron (who have oddly vanished after TFA) then maybe there would have been some attachment but as is I had no attachment to anyone in that scene.
Ultimately. Rogue One suffered from poor character development, an unnecessary back story, and a general lack of fun in my opinion. Not what a SW movie should be. Aside from the Vader scene, there was little that I really enjoyed. The nostalgia elements were what flimsily held the movie together. I left the cinema feeling disappointed.
I’m hoping Solo will be the first stand-alone movie that I actually enjoy.
I agree that the character development wasn’t the best but that’s about all. R1 wasn’t supposed to be about fun. It was meant to be a more gritty Star Wars movie where we saw how bad war can be and that the rebels weren’t above committing horrible acts themselves. Besides we were talking about the space battle not the movie as a whole, which in my view is way and above TLJ and I would even go as far as to say slightly better than the one in ROTJ.
But, the character development is a factor of the film. That’s why the opening battle of The Last Jedi is so well done. I felt more for Paige in five minutes, then I did for any character dying in Rogue One who I had spent 2 hours with.
A SW move can be gritty and fun. The two are not mutually exclusive. The darkest SW movies still retain their element of fun. Rogue One did not.
Like I said earlier, I found the Rogue One battle scenes very generic, and ultimately forgettable.
Yes and there were some light hearted moments in R1 mainly from K2SO, which in my opinion were more natural than some of the forced humour in TLJ. I certainly think you are in the minority when it comes to which is the best space battle though.
I’m most likely in the minority, which I have no problem of being in.
It was almost as tense as the day my garage door opener fell between the seat in my car and I wasn’t sure if would ever be able to open my garage door again!!!
and then I found it and pushed the button and everything was fine
Gotta agree with this statement. ROTJ and R1 have had the best space battles in the saga, IMO (ROTJ still edges out R1, even though it’s much older and the effects are not as advanced).
I can see the ease of using CG for the starfighters. But they wanted to practical stuff, they could use models for the capital ships.
More excuses, in a way. This wouldn’t be because the film was terrible and they alienated the fan base who spend money. Just go to the toy store and see the piles of last jedi toys at discount.
Feels a bit like this is a sad ditch attempt to try and get boys, oh sorry girls now to buy the toys.
Too late for that!
Why do you care about toy sales and what data are you looking at that gives you insight into why sales fluctuate?
Toy sales are one reflection, hasbro has publicly announced the slump. A new hope could not keep up with demand.
The Toy Sales for Last Jedi are embarrassing. At my Target in Hollywood, there are just HUGE vats of Clearance toys. This movie did NOT connect with the fanbase like previous films have.
If you’re comparing the toy market of 1977 to the market of 2017 you may not be qualified to give an opinion on this topic. Toy sales are down but you don’t have ANY of the data required to even begin to formulate an informed opinion about the reasons for the slump. Unless you work at Hasbro or for another toy manufacturer and have access to internal data.
It’s called my opinion
There you go. Opinion doesn’t = fact.
Nope, but opinions are a good thing though.
Because it’s the thread? Hasbro publicly announced the slump
I see that. I’m wondering why YOU care.
Because I love Star Wars and feel very concerned
Breath. Just…. breathe. Star Wars is alive and well.
Star Wars is going through some things right now.
Make of that what you will.
By “things” you mean a string of movies that top the box office year after year then yes they are certainly going through “things”.
Nah… it’s even better than that.
It kinda seems like…you are the one… that’s freakin out…
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/07/hasbro-reports-fourth-quarter-earnings-2017.html
Right, this article clearly refutes any suggestion that a decrease in sales has anything to do with reception to The Last Jedi. It’s industry wide, across multiple IPs and it’s partially attributed to a weak marketing strategy. Regardless, this doesn’t reveal the internal data that would give you a full grasp of the issue and allow you to speak to it intelligently.
Bullet point from the article. Industry wide?
Franchise brands, like Nerf, Monopoly and My Little Pony performed well for the company, rising 11 percent in the quarter.
Bullet point: “Overall consumer demand slowed in November and December both for the industry and for Hasbro”
The segment that was down includes Marvel and Disney properties. Star Wars was not the only property to slump. Even if it was, that’s not the barometer for judging the health of the franchise as a whole. Never mind that the majority of these sales would have been made prior to TLJ’s release.
If RJ really was bothered he would have concentrated on the star wars saga story instead of this independent pile of nonsense.
In 40 years I never made comments but even I feel obliged and outraged to comment on this film. Hopefully Disney will pay attention to everyone who has joined the discussion!
I am fan. I spend a lot of money on Star Wars annually and I loved the last Jedi. So did a majority of those who are fans of the franchise. Why should they listen to you and not everyone else? It might be that creating new Star Wars films that everyone likes all of the time is an impossible task. The best path forward is for Lucasfilm to ignore all of us and allow the talented people they hire to make the product that Lucasfilm and the filmakers want to make.
Um no, the best path for Lucasfilm is to make films that people / fans actually LIKE. Not films that insult them.
Kent, when you make blanket statements that aren’t supported by facts you’re straying into troll territory. General audiences like The Last Jedi. Many, Star Wars fans love it. It didn’t make $1.3B off the back of it’s predecessor. There’s a reason we are the audience and the creatives at Lucasfilm are the professionals. You don’t have to like every Star Wars movie but no one insulted you because you didn’t like the plot of a film.
It made money because it’s Star Wars not because it was good
It made more money than 7 other Star Wars films because it’s Star Wars? If you take the prequels into consideration there’s no doubt that a Star Wars film that isn’t liked will make money but it will also make less money than Star Wars films that audiences do like. I suspect that you’re projecting your feelings about the movie onto everyone else.
What about the 68% drop off? This film was going to make money because of the cliff hangers from TFA that excited so many fans, plus the trailers present what appears to be a good movie. And as far as making more than other movies, are factoring inflation? The cost of going to movie has significantly gone up since the OT and PT.
“…because of the cliff hangers from TFA that excited so many fans” Exactly. What is there to draw audiences to Ep.IX now? Not much. Will that film draw in the same numbers as Last Jedi? I doubt it.
We’ll see how the presales look in 18 months. Just bringing JJ back and the possibiloty that be may right some TLJ wrongs will guarantee yet another $150M+ opening weekend. You don’t really think people won’t go see it right?
I CANNOT WAIT…
to NOT give LucasFilm/Disney any more Star Wars money. Fool me once…
Agreed — its like going back to a relationship once you have been betrayed…… I no longer trust Lucasfilm to hold my heroes high.
So no Solo then?
AHAHAHAHA! *sobs in shame*
Episode 9 Spoiler: Rey will read the books, become the most amazing Jedi of all, and WIN. LOL
LucasFilm just called, they about to send a Cease and Desist letter to SWNN if you don’t take down your comment 🙂
There are too many variables in audience and movie going habits and length of theatrical runs to compare based on inflation. That’s why no one considers it when talking about box office. What’s the 68%? Toys? Because TLJ dropped off 35% from TFA. Which is consistent for the second film in a Star Wars trilogy. Have you considered that TFA over performed. Surely you wouldn’t argue that ESB isn’t good because of the drop off from ANH? Neither TLJ or ESB are feel good films and neither could live up to the box office of their predecessor. Thankfully that’s not how we asses the quality of a film.
The 68% is the drop off in ticket sales from opening week to the second week. Below is a quote from a Forbes article that does not reflect a good movie
“So, here’s the indisputably lousy news: Rian Johnson’s Star Wars: The Last Jedi lost more money between its first and second weekends than any film ever, by a lot.”
Yep, a bunch of news outlets had dire reports on TLJ’s second week box office and then it over performed in the third week and had pretty decent legs after that. Hence, they don’t yank movies from the cineplex after two weekends. TLJ is very close to becoming the 8th highest grossing movie all time. I suspect Lucasfilm is happy getting that kind of performance out of what is not a feel good movie.
That second week of The Last Jedi was embarrassing! SO bad !
Just out of curiosity, if you were expected to get paid $15 an hour and then you get paid $12 on your paycheck, would you say, wow, “$12 an hour, that’s a lot of money!” Or would you be upset that you didn’t get the pay your expected, 25% more? Well, when LucasFilm is expecting to cash a $1.5 Billion $ check at the box office but only get’s 1.3 Billion $s, there is a problem, and no LucasFilm is not happy, they’re fine, but they are concerned and they are going to be making changes…
So you got a peak at their internal projections? I mean you know what they anticipated TLJ would make and you know it fell short of their expectations or outside of the parameters they defined as successful? If you have that kind of very sensitive insider knowledge then I respectfully defer to your expertise.
Sorry, I thought everybody knew that box office tracking was a thing
Yeah I think everyone knows about box office tracking. You know that those numbers don’t come from the studio right? They also don’t tell you anything about what the studio considers a successful return on their investment.
Make your own mind up
My mind was made up at approximately 10:30 PM On Dec. 14 2018. I’m suggesting to you that online polls and discussion boards isn’t an effective way of determining how others made up their minds.
FYI — The Last Jedi basically DESTROYED the China market for SW. It failed MISERABLY there and China is actually a key market for SW future.
It’s just not China’s thing — never was, and that’s fine. There’s plenty better ammo to use against TLJ, my friend.
This particular statement just made by Kent is just fine. He’s passionate about the franchise and wants better. And he doesn’t get a chunk of that 1.3 billion, so that’s meaningless to bring up. In fact he, and countless other let down fans actually contributed to it, which is all the more reason to be pissed.
Unless you get a piece of that $$ yourself, why is it so important to squash what’s essentially consumer advocacy? I’ve never seen more people upset about other people being upset with a product. It you enjoyed the product you payed for, it shouldn’t affect you.
I have to disagree when you say the majority who are fans like the film. I would argue the majority disliked the film and I would base that on Rotten Tomatoes when audience ratings now stand at 48% liked. And before you say those numbers are skewed I would agree, except I would say the positives are skewed. If you take time to read peoples opinions you’ll see that all of the positive ratings are 1 line “Great Movie!” and all the negative reviews a thought out and actually explain everything that is wrong with this movie.
Mmmhmm. I would suggest that when people are upset they’re far more likely to take to the internet to air their grievances in a desperate attempt to seek validation and gain a false sense of empowerment. The same way citizens who are dissatisfied are more likely to vote. Satisfied and casual movie goers aren’t compelled to jump online and write a movie review or even register a rating. They see the movie, talk about it for two minutes with their buddy then go to Applebees and move on with their life. There are plenty of online polls that show audiences did like the movie. However, I don’t care about those polls either because ALL online polls are meaningless.
It’s apparent that there are a number of people so deeply offended by The Last Jedi that they can’t put it behind them but that does not a majority make. Now that enough time has passed it just makes them obnoxious. Given that we still hear complaints about the Special Editions I wonder if enough time will ever pass. I wonder if on their death beds they will raise their fits towards the heavens and with their dying words proclaim “Not my Luke!!!”
I would love to move past it and essentially have, but I just keep seeing these explanation articles from Rian that reopen a nasty wound and pour salt in it. I still very much love Star Wars and do not believe one bad, correction extremely bad movie define the franchise as a whole. But I also think it would be wise for Disney and Lucas film to listen to their fan base.
Explanation articles or people ask him questions about his movie and he talks about it? He’s not writing op-eds in defense of his film and he doesn’t need to.
Very good theories, but typically in the political sphere you have 48% on one side and 48% on the other side and then the very small middle % that can swing the election either way. It’s not the same story for Star Wars. I DO think the majority of fans of the franchise wanted TLJ to be awesome, most were rooting for it. I know, still an assumption on my part, but that was what I experienced. For the people that didn’t like it though, they have become very disillusioned. I have “Star Wars Friends” that I literally only talk to about Star Wars. I haven’t talked to them since the night the Last Jedi came out. Because there is nothing to talk about. Just one night ranting about how muck it sucked, and then not a word after. Me personally, I did go onto RottenTomaties to give it a bad review, with though-out reasoning. It was the first time in my entire life I gave an online review. And the reason why I did it: because all the “Lovers” of TLJ at that point were still claiming that RT was hacked and that it was all bots. So my review was accurate, but it was almost in spite of the fans that could not accept that there was a large portion of the fan base that did not enjoy the movie.
So anyway, your theory is wrong, unless you somehow have some quantitative proof to back it up…
It’s happening again with Black Panther, so there’s your proof. Currently it’s on par with Justice League… What a joke.
I hope they completely ignore the haters just to show they aren’t imtimidated by some vocal idiots. Pandering to fans/audiences is the mortal enemy of creativity and art.
So many haters here.
God I hate them haters!
Haters? subjectively you can either like or dislike the last jedi. Objectively it’s a bad film. I love Star Wars but did not like the last jedi, my opinion and many others. When you get a terrible film, there will always be some who loves it. China aren’t sold on the star wars name so they are a good example to show objectively it’s a bad film. Cancelled after two weeks. Plus RJ having to constantly explain it, a good film stands on its own merit without the need.
Oh don’t worry, the Last Jedi will make perfect sense after 5 more novels, a 12 part comic mini-series, and 3 more cartoon series 😉
It doesn’t matter to me whether you like TLJ or not, but the China example does not make sense. If they are not fans of a 40-year-old franchise, why would they suddenly decide to watch the 8th episode of it? If you use your logic, you would have to conclude that none of the Star Wars movies are any good, otherwise the Chinese would be “sold on” it. Or maybe you could blame episode 7 for the low interest in 8.
Not a TLJ “trasher” here, but I just read an interesting article that had this to say about China and other blockbuster movie franchises:
“None of the first five Fast and Furious films received a theatrical Chinese release, yet the most recent two franchise entries set national records for Hollywood films with $390 million and $392 million, respectively. The same goes for the first three Jurassic Park films, yet Jurassic World still earned $228 million.”
Very interesting I think. Maybe the Chinese just flat-out don’t like (or don’t “get”) Star Wars. Listed below is where you can find the full article. It’s a pretty good read.
http://observer.com/2018/01/star-wars-the-last-jedi-box-office-bombs-china-info-details/
A very nice article, thanks bw778083! So Valerian outgrossed TLJ in China???? Funny how nobody mentioned that, considering how the media spent its sweet time trashing Valerian’s performance! I also think Valerian is better than TLJ, despite all its defects. Good for you, China! You just made my day!
“Geostorm” out-grossed TLJ too…
This should be troubling news for us “old-school” Star Wars fans. Like the article states, China is poised to overtake the U.S. as the most important box office region in the world in the next few years. If the current Star Wars “formula” isn’t working there, I imagine Lucasfilm and Disney wouldn’t hesitate to change it in order to suit the Chinese market so that the money keeps flowing. So Star Wars could become as flashy-yet-shallow as “Fast and Furious” and many of the Marvel movies. Don’t want to sound like too much of an alarmist here, but it does seem the future of Star Wars is certainly in a bit of a precarious state. I’ve got a bad feeling about this….
Dang it. Now you made me worry. Let’s hope for the best. So far the new trilogy is doing a decent job. IMO!
I think you meant “subjectively, it’s a bad film”
WOWZA – so happy that Rian was concerned with toy-minutae —– as opposed to, you know, telling a cohesive story that made sense in the SW Universe. He’s TERRIBLE for Star Wars, the worst writer / director thus far.
His story made perfect sense. It just wasn’t the predictable crap you were looking for.
It would be nice if, you know, the Last Jedi actually continued story threads started in 7 — instead of “delighting” us with: Rey-Kylo Force-Facetime, huge time-waste on unnecessary charactesr Holdo / Rose (which the fandom hates possibly more than Jar Jar), absurd abuse of Poe everytime he’s at Resistance Base, Yoda the Psycopath-Pyromaniac, Bipolar Luke, and Broom-boy to take it home at the end.
TLJ did tocuh on all the threads. Some fans just didn’t like where RJ went with it. I didn’t like all of it either…not the same thing.
Honestly, I notice no one is UPSET that RJ isn’t making Ep 9…..
You know, I really don’t mind RJ or his movie but you make a VERY GOOD point. Considering some of those TLJ relentless defenders out there I still have to hear the first complaint about Rian’s replacement. But I just read about JJ nerd-shaming the fanbase, so I expect complaints will come in three, two, one…
What did JJ say ?
He implied fans who didn’t like TLJ feel “threatened” by women. See it for yourself…
https://www.thewrap.com/jj-abrams-star-wars-fans-last-jedi/
The problem there is… the sexist idiots who are often times more vocal than even those who disliked the film can and do spam associated media.
They exist… they do have their own agenda and it often derails any legitimate debate we could have. Is it a cop out for them to blame the majority of the backlash on it? Absolutely. Doesn’t make it completely untrue either. It’s certainly a part of it.
I think the gender of the lead character is the LEAST of anyone’s complaints re: The Last Jedi. I notice JJ has yet to praise TLJ….hehe
He read the script in 2015 and said he wished he was directing it. Why are you so persistently full of shit?
This is his life. His sad, sad little pathetic life.
I find it incredibly insulting to be labelled a sexist or racist because I found TLJ disappointing. I loved TFA precisely because of Rey & Finn. I was excited to see where TLJ was going to take them and I went in with no preconceived ideas as to what would happen. I couldn’t believe how disappointed I was after watching it.
Please read the article. That’s not what JJ said. He is not dumb. He will never say that. Sites use this headline to get more clicks.
I thought it probably was click bait which is why I very rarely go to these articles. My comment was more aimed at others that have labelled me sexist for not enjoying TLJ.
If people read the source article they will see that Abrams made that comment towards the fans who decried Rian Johnson’s film for its focus on “more female-centric stories”. He didn’t say that to all the fans who didn’t like the movie. It’s really low that many sites go with that headline which is not accurate at all.
A fair point. Just a while ago I was decrying the media for their unfair coverage of Valerian, so now I will also give JJ the benefit of the doubt. Journalists be journalists! Still, if JJ did say some fans may feel threatened by girls, no matter what the context or the justification, I will be very disappointed in him. I have to deal with the press for my job and I’m certainly not a genius, but I would never dream of confronting any of my customers, no matter how wrong they may be. He should know better!
Not wanting to sound destructive, I re-read some additional sources and IMO it does seem like JJ is trying to pull a Paul Feig. Of sorts.The fanbase’s main beef with TLJ has never been its female roles. Going that route now seems deliverately manipulative and I really can’t imagine it making things better. I just don’t want the debate within the SW community descending into the 9th level of Hell like it happened with Ghostbusters! Please no.
You know what? You’re absolutely right! lol
Don’t you ever get tired of rolling out the same crap again and again? It’s f**king relentless. Haven’t you got anything else going on in your life? Are you trying to gain some self esteem by constantly spewing out the same thing again and again? Are you trying to change the minds of people who did like TLJ? If so that seems like a waste of energy. Why dont you do something more positive, instead of just constantly spewing out your negative bile? We get it, you didn’t like TLJ.
Yes i had reservation about TLJ because the first trailer did NOT look SW — the color, camera angles, editing style — it looked “cheap” and more like a Straight-to-Netflix than a major movie. TFA, R1, and Solo actually LOOK like Star Wars films, hence my praise for them. TLJ was terrible, nonsensical, overbloated, and filmed more like an Anime than a SW film.
Yep he’s a disgrace and ruined Starcawars.
No it’s a case that the toys are not selling so they are trying to put a spin on it to get some interest. A new hope couldn’t keep up with demand, and their toys weren’t anything like the screen models!
Right! If the movie inspires the fans, the toys will SELL like hotcakes. The fact is — The Last Jedi did NOT inspire the fandom….hell even the friends of mine that “liked it” sure aren’t rushing to the store to get a Last Jedi shirt. In fact, I have NEVER seen anyone in a Last Jedi T-shirt — yet everytime I go to the Mall, I see a 12-15 year old kid in an OT shirt (New Hope, ESB, or ROTJ) — those are still TOP sellers at youth franchises such as Hot Topic.
I’ve seen a few people wearing “The Last Jedi” gear. Not a ton, but a handful.
Few and far between — as TLJ gear and toys are not selling at all.
4th best Star Wars film to date! Keep it up Star Wars, most of us still like you.
What are your 3 above it?
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deleted. Commenters who choose to violate this policy risk being banned
from future discussions.”
Is ther any reason, SWNN, why f-bombs are being removed from posts? It’s your house / your rules, of course, but do you wanna be clear on your new policies before butchering the manner in which people express themselves here? Respect towards other members is a must, and I’m 100% with you, but we’re all adults here. Referencing a movie line containing a curse word is a no-no? An enthusiastic “f__k yeah” is is forbidden? Where do you draw the line now?
How ’bout a post explaining your new wrong-think polices…
We are in the process of deciding what to do with this. Whether to make an automatic censoring on certain words or do it other way. When we do we will update the rules.
Thanks for the speedy reply, Val. Why the sudden move towards censorship? I’ll be honest… for me, that’s the dirtiest word of them all. It seems like you’re picking and choosing to single out members that speak ill of a public brand, as opposed to posters who trash-talk civilians here in this little family of ours. Which is more important?
I wouldn’t call this censorship. I don’t know what word got edited in your comments, but the whole idea with word filters is to avoid people insulting other people. And don’t forget that Star Wars is not only for grownups. It’s always been a kids movie.
Kids can handle colorful metaphors — just like our generation did with “E.T.”
kids will adapt, its these twenty-somethings that are very delicate, history is cyclical like that
Go ahead and censor the bad words. If some people can’t find better ways of voicing their comments that’s their misfortune… and our benefit.
Censorship is bad, words are not. No one benefits from suppressing verbal expression.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/01/science-swearing-profanity-curse-emma-byrne/
I shouldn’t have to dispute that notion in the 21st century.
I disagree. The foul language is unnecessary and degrading. We all benefit from its eradication.
What are your thoughts on the lousy tone in which certain people take when addressing another member here, regardless of spicy vocabulary? If Person A says “That’s a f__king great film” while Person B says “I think you’re an idiot for your feelings regarding this film”, whom do you find is acting in a degrading manner?
I have a problem with both. I run an extremely large and popular forum and I would do something about both of those comments. One is foul language, which coarsens the discussion, and the other is a personal attack.
Obviously, my problem is with B, especially since A isn’t aiming anything fowl towards another member. I’m not afraid of course, or even extra bumpy discussions. My big issue, or what I’ve noticed on this site, is that Person B often slips through the cracks, while mods might pat themselves on the back by making a statement or example out of calling out Person A. That’s hypocrisy.
Agreed 100% with your main point about Person B slipping through the cracks. I developed a really good reporting system on my forums for that problem. (The members basically police themselves that way and people generally have civil discussions.) We just disagree on foul language, and there’s valid points on either side about that.
If I had to guess (and please correct and forgive me if I’m wrong), I’d say your forum deals with something more white-collar-professional which naturally lends itself more politically correct behavior, so I kinda understand why you take that stance on the language. And for the most part, I wouldn’t even call for the belligerency to be moderated here either, since most here do seem capable of self regulation. But if someone is getting really nasty, stalkerish, or picking on someone that’s extra-sensitive or not skilled at sticking up for themselves — which does happen — those people on the receiving end really shouldn’t have to deal with that sort of harassment here. I wish the mods would make that top priority if they really want to chime in and do what’s right.
You’re not anywhere close on the forum members. They are generally non-technical people with typically lower incomes. There are hundreds of thousands of members. The cool part is that if you create a culture of civility and stick to it every day, it can work for any people. People are people, and most of them prefer a friendly environment where the discussion doesn’t go downhill because of foul language.
As I said, people are free to disagree on this. There are successful forums out there with both approaches to language, but my personal experience is better on those sites that censor foul language.
Yeah, we’ll just agree to disagree. But I will say this — I find you much more pleasant to deal with than half the people I actually do agree with here.
Oh, the irony. 😉
Have a good night.
lol, you too, cheers.
it’s not a perfect system and the staff is in the process of refining it. your patience is appreciated.
What are your thoughts on the manner in which people treat one another here, regardless of spicy vocabulary? If Person A says “that’s a f__king great film” while Person B says “I think you’re an idiot for your feelings regarding this film”, whom do you find is acting in a degrading manner?
I’ve enjoyed this website for years both as a lurker and poster. There will always be trolls that you will want to delete or modify posts due to excessive profanity and so in. But the Reverend is right, got to publish the rules.
That said, the idea of censorship is pretty fucking abhorrent. Your website though 🙂
Are we all adults here?
I agree with the good Reverend. There are far more offensive things in these comment sections than a down to earth, good old fashioned F*#K. Having said that, there’s a touch of elegance in using all the *#$.
Since we stepped up (almost a week now) I think the comments are pretty civil. We have a pretty good system in the Cantina replacing the bad words with less offensive ones. Unfortunately Disqus doesn’t offer that. They just held for a moderation all the comments with words that have been forbidden. We are still deciding on this.
Oh man… you mean we could end up saying karabast instead of a typical curse? That’s hilarious. Shame Disqus is limited in that way. I still really like Disqus otherwise.
The real story being that ILM no longer feels it has the knowhow to do a mo–con sequence. Maybe that’s inevitable, but I still find it sad.
Totally agree.
Overuse… and poor choice of camera during said sequences have really impacted the immersion. They always want to pull back and show off how pretty it all is. Instead of staying close and show how it’d feel to be right in the center of it.
A great example is Jurassic Park. Watch how it slowly starts getting out of hand in the later movies until the feeling of being there is all but lost.
It’s why IMO Transformers absolutely fails. Pretty? Impressive? Sure. Pulls you into the movie and makes you feel what it’s like to be surrounded by towering machines while making it believable? Not in the slightest.
Agree with you, but that’s another topic. ILM is saying part of the problem was that they didn’t know who had the knowledge or skill to execute a space battle sequence with practical models on motion control stands, A battle, it must be said, that was shorter and less complex than either the Asteroid field from ESB or the end battle from Jedi – not that those weren’t crazy-complex sequences, but artistic mastery of that kind of programming, photography, and compositing job was ILM’s bread and butter.
I’ll always accuse him for the hyperkaze attack. He definitely took a leap of logic based on what we’d come to understand in the universe and how that universe operated up to that point.
That’s about the only thing I’ll really nail him for canon wise. The rest can be forgiven that nothing was ever clearly defined. Such as all the Force abilities.
I’m still holding out hope that they will do something more with the hyperkaze thing
when DJ tells the First Order to scan for cloaked vessels, some questions come up:
1. Why aren’t they always scanning for cloaked vessels?
2. What is the point of a cloak if your ship can be scanned?
1. I’ve got no answer for.
2. Well to be fair there could be varying degrees of cloak. That it’s masked by most sensors but maybe not all of them if you know where to look. Like some sort of sub light trail or distortion in space. Easily missed if you’re not looking for it. Though I believe the OT sort of set the precedent that ships of a certain size were the only one’s capable of cloaking. Sure tech could have evolved since then but Star Wars seems generally stuck at it’s current level.
Still… we could easily nitpick the Falcon landing on a Star Destroyer. They have some pretty crappy tech if they are unable to detect that 😛
I’ve always thought hyperspacing/warping a ship into a target was an obvious option, I liked that they included it in the movie. It’s like prior to 9/11 no one had tried attacking a city with passenger aircraft but it would still have been possible, it just hadn’t happened yet
Right but that makes no sense in the universe that it exists in. It’s a galaxy at war for over 40 years. Desperate war. She’s the first one ever to do it? No one in all those years of war thought of such a weapon/tactic? It’s… silly. I wont bring 9/11 into it because honestly it’s irrelevant and not comparable to the events in TLJ.
No only that but I promise you nothing will change going forward in design because that’s not what Star Wars is about. We want battle ships duking it out at point blank range. No light speed mass calculations. Which of course all military designs and tactics would shift to reflect this style of warfare if they did.
Basically it was an silent agreement that they’d never do such a thing because it would undo any logic to the naval battles they’ve had up to this point. They did it because it looked cool… and that’s probably as far as that will ever go. Shame because ramming is was of the most dramatic and cool parts of desperate combat. Shame they took it too far.
All would have been forgiven had she simply badly damaged… yes even ripped off the third of the ship from Snoke’s SSD… passing through and destroying nearly a fleets worth of destroyers? Ridiculous.
Subvert expectations all day long… don’t undermine the logic of the universe as it’s been presented up to this point. IE Luke’s fine. Making all other Star Wars battles not make sense? Less so.
The rebellion doesn’t usually have ships it is prepared to just throw away. In this case the ship would be destroyed anyway so they had nothing to lose. I’m more surprised that Disney let a suicide attack be a major win for the good guys
No matter how I try to down size my arguments my comments just end up being 4 or 5 paragraphs. I don’t want to do that to this comment section… again. Just know that I’ve run through countless scenarios as to why this should or shouldn’t work and I can’t get it to make sense. Not in a Star Wars context.
I’d love to actually talk to Rian about it… I’d like to think he’s got some extra argument in his head outside of “mass” as it just doesn’t work on it’s own to explain it.
“That’s about the only thing I’ll really nail him for canon wise. The rest can be forgiven since nothing was ever clearly defined. Such as all the Force abilities.”
So, why does Luke’s Force projection pass muster but not the hyperkaze attack?
Because the Force was never defined through extensive what it can and can’t do. It was actually very abstract from the start. Yoda basically said it can do almost anything if you fully understood how to use it. Like bringing an entire planet down… or Force projecting across the universe.
While naval combat has slowly rolled out the rules of what you can and can’t do in battle. I’m not saying jumping to hyper space isn’t a viable tactic. Just that it would never be THAT effective given the way military design and tactics have unfolded in Star Wars up to this point. Clearly it’s not meant to be that large of a threat… but oh well… liberties were taken.
another new spin on fansplaining
Well at least evruthing they made a toy of was in the film unlike TFA line with captain zuvio
Good, very attentive.
If you didn’t like TLJ some people call them haters? They were probably not even born when I was enjoying everything Star Wars before this mess. Yes there are some good bits and battles but fundamentally the story and some actors were terrible. Good luck selling that 6″ Holdo