The Star Wars Movies Gross A Collective $9B While The Last Jedi Becomes 2017’s Highest-Grossing Film

Good news: Star Wars: The Last Jedi is now the highest-grossing movie of 2017, eclipsing both The Fate of the Furious and Beauty and the Beast about a month after its premiere. Better news: that’s enough to push the entire franchise past $9B, almost half of which came from the three movies released under Disney’s reign over Lucasfilm. Bad news: it looks like the franchise will continue to struggle to find an audience in the planet’s second-largest movie market.

 

According to Box Office Mojo‘s estimates as of January 14, 2017, Star Wars: The Last Jedi has become last year’s highest-grossing movie with a domestic performance of $591.5M and an international performance of $673.4M – which combine to a $1264.9M total. As an interesting bit of trivia, that puts it in the Top 10 highest-grossing movies of all time when you don’t adjust things for inflation. Based on the movie’s financial trajectory, it looks like it ought to end up at the #9 spot between Frozen and Harry Potter & The Deathly Hallows – Part 2 or the #8 spot between Harry Potter and Avengers: Age of Ultron. Expect it to pass Frozen by this time next week, where the movie ought to reach the $1.3B mark. In terms of domestic box office records, it looks like the movie ought to either narrowly pass the $623.3M total assembled by The Avengers or fall just short of it, which would mean the movie ends its run at either the #5 or #6 spots in the Top 10.

 

But not all news for the latest Star Wars movie is positive, particularly when it comes to China. After an underwhelming opening weekend, the movie has shed 92% of the screens it held there, and is now up to a $38.8M total. That’s well behind Australia’s $42.2M total, and that country has less than 2% of China’s population. Chinese audiences are largely apathetic to this franchise for several reasons, one of the biggest being that the original movies were never released in the 1970s and 1980s, so there’s little nostalgic value for audiences, and sci-fi as a genre has a tough time with a few notable exceptions. The silver lining for Disney is that Star Wars does well enough in the markets where it’s traditionally been popular that the movie outright flopping in China isn’t a huge issue, since they’ve been able to cover that ground with the likes of their live-action Disney remakes, Coco (a film which signifies that future Pixar movies could really break out in the region after a string of disappointing performances), Pirates of the Caribbean (the latest installment of which made more over there than it did over here), and – most importantly – Marvel (an absolute powerhouse of a brand in the region).

 

At this point, there’s no sanity whatsoever for the naysayers to call this movie a box office bomb by any measure – but even with that in mind, it’s likely that Disney wanted a couple tens of millions more out of this movie’s box office gross. I doubt that they’re crying crocodile tears over this, however – it’s easily their biggest hit of the year, in a year where none of their major movies were bombs; the same cannot be said for rival movie studios. I don’t think that we’ll see any sort of executive mandates placed upon Star Wars Episode IX as a means of course-correction, because that’s just not how Disney operates as a company since Bob Iger took the wheel. With that in mind, I think it’s likely that J. J. Abrams and everyone else working on the movie will probably aim to make the closing chapter less risky a story to tell than The Last Jedi, most likely drawing upon of elements of the Star Wars setting in ways that both it and even The Force Awakens opted not to utilize (namely, legacy planets and returning alien species) while still bringing in new material for the franchise (like more new ships designs). Also likely to appear as a way to appeal to fans that weren’t thrilled with The Last Jedi would be a large part for Mark Hamill to make up for Carrie Fisher’s absence due to her tragic death, and a role that’s more in-line with a traditional portrayal of Luke Skywalker.

 

For now, all is right with the world and Star Wars is unstoppable as a movie franchise – but it will certainly be in Disney’s best interests to work on finding ways to expand the reach of this brand in the coming years, especially since future films will have to stand on their own merits and not simply rely on nostalgia to sell themselves.

 

+ posts

Grant has been a fan of Star Wars for as long as he can remember, having seen every movie on the big screen. When he’s not hard at work with his college studies, he keeps himself busy by reporting on all kinds of Star Wars news for SWNN and general movie news on the sister site, Movie News Net. He served as a frequent commentator on SWNN’s The Resistance Broadcast.

Grant Davis (Pomojema)

Grant has been a fan of Star Wars for as long as he can remember, having seen every movie on the big screen. When he’s not hard at work with his college studies, he keeps himself busy by reporting on all kinds of Star Wars news for SWNN and general movie news on the sister site, Movie News Net. He served as a frequent commentator on SWNN’s The Resistance Broadcast.

463 thoughts on “The Star Wars Movies Gross A Collective $9B While The Last Jedi Becomes 2017’s Highest-Grossing Film

  • January 15, 2018 at 2:11 am
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    I’m not surprised. It’s a fantastic movie.

  • January 15, 2018 at 2:17 am
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    No one ever called it a bomb as the discussion was always in the context of SW money. TLJ will probably finish 300 million domestically behind TLJ. If Disney was expecting the return of Luke Skywalker in that box office range then they should be happy. I still think the return of Luke Skywalker was a bigger selling point then any middle SW movie in the past so it should performed better then ESB and AOTC.

    • January 15, 2018 at 2:41 am
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      Bringing in big money for TLJ was never really going to be a challenge I think, because although I didn’t care for TFA at all, I think that movie left most fans with a lot of goodwill towards the franchise, enough for them to return. And that’s the real challenge here.

      Will TLJ perpetuate enough good will in the franchise for fans to want to return for more. At this point in time, I’d say the reactions and the numbers say no. But I could be wrong.

    • January 15, 2018 at 2:41 am
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      Bringing in big money for TLJ was never really going to be a challenge I think, because although I didn’t care for TFA at all, I think that movie left most fans with a lot of goodwill towards the franchise, enough for them to return. And that’s the real challenge here.

      Will TLJ perpetuate enough good will in the franchise for fans to want to return for more. At this point in time, I’d say the reactions and the numbers say no. But I could be wrong.

      • January 15, 2018 at 3:25 am
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        Well put.

      • January 15, 2018 at 3:36 am
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        I’m agree. although I like the TLJ, I undestand a lor of fans didn’t… Although as you said youself you never know… Some of the new characters are well known by now. People would like to know what happen with Rey, Kylo, Finn and Poe. If they use them four well and make good plot for them, could be interesting… And it will be a conclusion to the trilogy and (as far as we know) to the trilogy of trilogies…
        It will depend of what they can do during next two years…
        Maybe a strategy where there is a bit more of “official information” about the production will help them: some pics, some videos of making of…

        • January 15, 2018 at 3:44 am
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          Anything is possible.

  • January 15, 2018 at 2:22 am
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    It’ll be interesting to see how Han Solo performs. Deadpool 2 moved up its release so there’s even more competition now. It might be the first Disney Star Wars movie not to crack a billion dollars. If not, I’m thinking somewhere between 600M and 900M. Probably more likely in the middle somewhere. Maybe Alden’s performance is so damn good, it’ll create a lot of buzz and put fears to rest.

  • January 15, 2018 at 2:36 am
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    “At this point, there’s no sanity whatsoever for the naysayers to call this movie a box office bomb by any measure…”

    Well sure there is.

    By the measure of the daily box office take when compared to The force Awakens.

    So, right away, RLJ saw a 77% drop off from TFA in its first Friday to Friday comparison:

    http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/19/star-wars-box-office-trouble-last-jedi-first-monday-receipts-are-half-as-much-as-the-force-awakens

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/12/23/the-audience-strikes-back-last-jedis-77-fri-to-fri-plunge-is-worst-ever-for-a-star-wars-pic/#434036c57fae

    By the second week, TLJ was running 100 Million behind TFA

    http://www.showbiz411.com/2017/12/23/box-office-last-jedi-now-running-over-100-mil-behind-force-awakens

    In the third week, it dropped to 3rd place, behind the 4th sequel in a low budget horror franchise.

    http://www.showbiz411.com/2018/01/06/last-jedi-knocked-to-3rd-place-in-3rd-week-makes-half-as-much-as-horror-thrillers-4th-installment

    In fact as of now thanks to The Last Jedi, Star Wars now holds the record for the biggest sequel to sequel plunge in cinema history.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2018/01/06/last-jedi-has-set-its-first-box-office-record-biggest-ever-sequel-to-sequel-plunge/#7a272a6542ee

    In China, it’s a bomb. Plain and simple.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/box-office-star-wars-last-jedi-losing-opening-day-race-china-1071810

    http://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/01/05/star-wars-the-last-jedi-china-box-office-/

    http://www.showbiz411.com/2018/01/09/box-office-china-opening-for-last-jedi-half-off-mark-of-force-awakens-at-27-mil

    After only a week in China, 92% of theaters have dropped the film, which brings us to our next point.

    It is now known that Disney was forcing theaters to keep The Last Jedi in their largest auditorium for a 4 week minimum without regard to its box office performance.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/11/02/star-wars-the-last-jedi-why-disney-is-pressuring-u-s-theaters/#2465fbe8604c

    https://io9.gizmodo.com/disney-to-theaters-showing-the-last-jedi-i-am-altering-1820052024

    Because of this, some theaters refused to play the film, and may refuse to play future installments of the franchise.

    http://www.slashfilm.com/why-some-movie-theaters-are-refusing-to-play-star-wars-the-last-jedi/

    https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/880590/Star-Wars-8-cinema-DROPS-bans-The-Last-Jedi-Disney-demands-which-theater

    It is now being reported by some commentators, that now that the film has passed the 4 week requirement from Disney, theaters are dropping it like a hot potato.

    But even if we want to ignore all of this box office information, we can still use the measure of the toy and merchandise sales, which have dropped by 47 percent.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/lukethompson/2017/12/21/why-arent-star-wars-toys-selling-as-well-this-year/#526e19a754e5

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-last-jedi-toy-shipments-down-sharply-force-awakens-1069479

    • January 15, 2018 at 3:09 am
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      This doesn’t really make sense to me.

      If Rey liked Kylo, wouldn’t she like to see him with his shirt off, rather than feel uncomfortable?

    • January 15, 2018 at 3:40 am
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      Reylo was setup by J.J. in TFA:

      1. Re-watch Rey’s conversation with Maz and listen out for a female voice that cries “It’s Ben!”
      2. She literally runs into Ben’s arms after leaving Maz’s castle
      3. Ben scoops her up in her arms like a groom carrying his new bride across the threshold
      4. Ben reveals his face to Rey, prior to that he’s wearing his mask at all times in the movie
      5. They read each other’s thoughts and establish a telepathic connection
      6. Watch how emotional he gets when the officer mentions a girl
      7. Likewise, how upset he becomes when Rey escapes
      8. Just before he kills Han, there is a light shining down from where Rey and Finn are standing up high. The light gets brighter when it looks like Ben is turning to the light, it extinguishes once he kills Han. The light is coming from Rey
      9. After Chewie fires his bowcaster at Ben, Ben straight away looks up towards Finn, instead of Chewie who just shot him. The look on Ben’s face says it all, he perceives Finn as a love rival, and Finn knows he’s coming for him
      10. He takes Finn out in a fight like a bar room brawl, punches included, as Finn is in his way of getting to Rey

      That’s just some of the foreshadowing off the top of my head, both movies are loaded with it.

      • January 15, 2018 at 3:44 am
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        PLus… they’re both the only characters with a penchant for Chic Ace Bandage arm-wear.

        • January 15, 2018 at 3:45 am
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          The deal sealer.

          • January 15, 2018 at 3:47 am
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            But most of it can all foreshadow a familial connection as well.

          • January 15, 2018 at 3:51 am
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            My interpretation is its a romantic nature that will be concluded in Episode IX.

          • January 15, 2018 at 3:57 am
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            I’d say yes if Rian were still holding that hot potato, but J.J. might have something else up his sleeves.

            Either way, I always liked the theory of a reveal that young Rey was rescued by an already-turned Kylo in the aftermath of his Jedi purge.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:15 am
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            There’s always been a romantic relationship between a Skywalker and another protagonist. That’s part of the beats and rhymes that make a SW movie. The PT had Anakin and Padme, they were together but ended up being forced (pardon my pun) apart. Rey and Kylo are apart but will be forced together. It’s an inverted retelling of Anakin and Padme. If you read through the art of The Last Jedi, Rian Johnson made sure the Falcon’s escape pod that Rey is in is to resemble as close as a coffin as possible, as its a reference to Padme in her coffin.

            The story is about to come full circle.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:18 am
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            But isn’t the new M.O. to put aside the notion of “always”? To subvert established patterns & expectations?

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:43 am
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            You’re dead to me.

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:38 am
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            Confirmed.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:22 am
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            For fucks sake if the coffin thing turns out to be true and it’s a reverse Anakin and Padme relationship it’s pure GENIUS!

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:34 am
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            Yes… evoking any memory of the prequels, especially a scene with Jar-Jar and Boss Nass, is genius.

            I’m starting to think George Lucas shadow-directed this movie.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:00 am
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            Yeaaaa..Luke and Leia twisting their tongues was enough for me. Besides it would be cool to have two powerful force users fall in love. It’s something different.

      • January 15, 2018 at 3:46 am
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        Holy shit. You’re right.

    • January 15, 2018 at 3:57 am
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      Or Snoke isn’t dead.

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:07 am
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        …that boi got split in two. Tongue out and everything. He dead.

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:07 am
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        …that boi got split in two. Tongue out and everything. He dead.

        • January 15, 2018 at 4:16 am
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          Probably but we’ve seen illusions with the force. We’ve also seen people cut in half and survive. I’m not saying you are wrong but if they want to bring Snoke back they could.

  • January 15, 2018 at 2:53 am
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    “Chinese audiences are largely apathetic to this franchise for several
    reasons, one of the biggest being that the original movies were never
    released in the 1970s and 1980s, so there’s little nostalgic value for
    audiences,”

    funny how none of those reasons stopped them going to see TFA.

    “the movie outright flopping in China isn’t a huge issue”

    yeah i’m sure iger and KK are thrilled that they not only failed to build on TFA boxoffice in china but it absolutely collapsed there instead. china is the largest market out there(by pop) and failing there is a major issue going forward no matter how you spin it.

    • January 15, 2018 at 3:01 am
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      There needs to be more Kung Fu in SW. Then they’ll probably have more of an interest in it.

      This is sarcasm for the uninitiated.

        • January 15, 2018 at 5:29 am
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          It’s kinda crazy — 4, 5, 6, and 7 are my pet Star Wars films, with Rogue One getting a lukewarm thumbs up, but that scene with Donnie Yen (a non-Jedi) walking across the battlefield is the most pitch-perfect depiction of a character taking an utter leap of faith based on their belief in the Force. As bewildering as that film is to me, I actually welled up the first time I watched that scene. I love that moment… and that character.

          It amazes me how they can randomly hit the mark so perfectly sometimes, and then go and shit the bed the rest of the time.

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:45 am
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            gonna be totally honest, i don’t think there is any scene in the franchise that hits me on that level. but i’m glad it did for you. 🙂

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:45 am
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            gonna be totally honest, i don’t think there is any scene in the franchise that hits me on that level. but i’m glad it did for you. 🙂

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:53 am
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            Not even Luke’s leap in ESB? Or even Vader’s one-armed Sith toss in ROTJ?

            You’re dead to me too.

            😉

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:58 am
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            its a great scene in a great film but no, nothing. it takes a film like glory or saving private ryan to really get me.

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:03 am
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            and don’t forget… “Breakin’ 2: Electric Boogaloo”.

            Admit it.

        • January 15, 2018 at 1:34 pm
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          It was martial arts in space so it doesn’t count

          – Disney

    • January 15, 2018 at 3:07 am
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      You make an excellent point. Those reasons didn’t stop them from seeing TFA.

      What I find fascinating right now about the whole China aspect of the box office results for TLJ, is how prior to the release of the film, there were many articles talking about how this movie was really going to appeal to a wide international audience because of its greater diversity, and to China in particular because of the casting of Rose.

      But now, after the release of TLJ and its failure in China, all the articles are saying that it was never expected to be a big hit there because it never was.

      I find this to be just a fascinating spin.

      • January 15, 2018 at 3:45 am
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        exactly. there were several reputable industry sites that kept saying china was going to be TLJ’s white knight and bump it up to 1.5 or even 1.6 billion(extremely absurd number) and then when it crashes and burns there everyone rushes out to say SW was never popular in china so BFD. the lack of honest reporting on this film is even more frustrating then the hyperbolic arguing by fans(which is saying something).

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:00 am
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        TLJ was never going to do well in China. I’m not sure what is so hard about this. TFA was bringing back something old for us and it had a lot of hype. Some of that had to reach China and build curiosity. After, the Chinese people decided they didn’t care….Rogue One show that exact narrative. So why would anyone think TLJ would do well there?

        • January 15, 2018 at 4:14 am
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          Because numerous articles published before the release of TLJ, celebrated the fact that the greater diversity in this film would appeal to the international market, and China in particular because of the casting of the Rose character.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:42 am
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            And I honestly think people were mistaken to make that connection. KMT got hired because RJ liked her as an actress. She’s an unknown American actress who doesn’t have a significant presence overseas, so I don’t see why people are acting like she’s an established star that will get butts in seats or anything.

            If they wanted to pander to China, they would have hired a Chinese actress. I actually think they might hire a prominent Chinese star for E9 just to make sure that that movie’s the opening weekend numbers are better.

            – Pomojema

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:17 am
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        Wow Rose FAILED in both the USA and China. Amazing.

    • January 15, 2018 at 4:39 am
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      The reason that The Force Awakens “did so well” is because Disney marketed it up as being The Next Big Thing in China, and for a time it seemed that that would be the case… But the film had a sharp drop-off of interest after Day 1, at which point it was clear that Star Wars was just another franchise to them. It was considered an underperformer at the time it actually came out.

      Never have I tried to indicate that this movie was going to be huge in China, just so we’re clear, or outdo The Force Awakens. Rogue One, which actually had Chinese actors in it, did worse, and that told me not to get my expectations up. Coco being an unexpected smash hit is probably enough for Disney’s investors anyway. The thing about this franchise is that it doesn’t need China to succeed – and very few other franchises released these days could say the same.

      – Pomojema

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:47 am
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        “just another franchise”. no if it was just another franchise it would be doing bank over there. our garbage franchises kill in china but the biggest film brand in the world absolutely bombed. TFA was supposed to be the springboard into breaking into the chinese market and the TLJ couldn’t even come close to the money R1 made, much less TFA. yes disney doesn’t need SW to own china, but believe me when i say they desperately want it to and they failed spectacularly.

        • January 15, 2018 at 5:01 am
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          “no if it was just another franchise it would be doing bank over there.”

          The reason the likes of Transformers and the Fast and Furious movies do so well is that they’re light on plot and heavy on digital-based action. Which these new Star Wars movies have avoided doing and are better movies for it.

          “yes disney doesn’t need SW to own china, but believe me when i say they desperately want it to and they failed spectacularly.”

          A point I acknowledged in the article with the last paragraph. They would have done more with these movies to pander to China if they absolutely wanted to. But I don’t think they see it as high a priority as you think they do – they certainly didn’t do a thing to get Chinese audiences invested in this one.

          – Pomojema

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:19 am
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            I would argue that Disney Star Wars films are very light on plot.

          • January 15, 2018 at 7:03 am
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            I would argue that Star Wars films are very light on plot.

          • January 15, 2018 at 7:07 am
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            Not in general, no.

          • January 15, 2018 at 7:10 am
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            There is much more going on in the ST than there was in the OT, that’s for sure.

          • January 15, 2018 at 7:23 am
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            I would have to disagree. There are multiple layers of the ion in OT, and even in the lackluster PT. It’s what has kept the franchise alive for decades among people of all ages, and spawned multiple documentaries that discuss the deeper layers of the films. It’s also what led Disney to pay 4 Billion for the franchise.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:15 am
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            Wouldn’t say they’re light on plot. But light on complexity for sure.

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:38 am
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            transformers films aren’t light on plot, else they’d just be an hour and a half of robots fighting each other instead of three hours of long convoluted stories that ultimately go nowhere. but thats a topic for a different fan forum.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:14 am
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            Wait, they’re not light on plot?

          • January 15, 2018 at 7:34 pm
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            the most recent one was as if they spliced the plot of at least three separate films into one. its mind boggling how they constantly overthink giant robots and explosions.

        • January 17, 2018 at 9:06 am
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          Right. The Cultural Revolution kept a lot of people from getting interested in it back in the day, and now they’re left bewildered about what the big fuss is all about 40 years later. That’s the drawback when you’re making a revival of a franchise that is so heavily-infused with nostalgia – and if they had chosen to make TFA a safer movie than it already was, then it would be more likely that they’d be more open to it.

          Hey, at least Disney has Avatar now… The Chinese loved that, and it was basically the movie that turned the PROC into an absolute powerhouse for international box office markets. It’s a franchise that won’t run into the issues facing Star Wars and is one that’s more tied in with the tastes of Chinese audiences.

          – Pomojema

          • January 17, 2018 at 9:19 am
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            True, and I’m sure the fact that the franchise is more stylistically influenced by Japanese films doesn’t do it any favours there either. Ironically, for all the complaints here about TLJ being too different to be proper ‘Star Wars’, it seems it had too much ‘Star Wars’ in it to gain traction in China.

            Hopefully Disney really can just focus on ‘Avatar’ for Chinese audiences and get more return for their investment (if they get to keep Fox at all due to ongoing antitrust investigations).

          • January 18, 2018 at 5:28 am
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            These sort of mergers pass all the time, in spite of objections. They actually have an easier time doing a horizontal merger than Time Warner and AT&T’s proposed merger, which is vertical and has hit a snag. Both will ultimately get approved.

            – Pomojema

  • January 15, 2018 at 2:54 am
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    As Mark Hamill said, it doesn’t need to be a quality movie, just need to make money, so good for Disney 🙂

    • January 15, 2018 at 2:59 am
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      Youre gonna need to provide some context that might explain why he would say something like that.

        • January 15, 2018 at 4:34 am
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          I’m pretty sure this is one of those videos that takes his comments out of context…

          – Pomojema

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:38 am
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            You would be incorrect. The context is provided here.

            He is discussing the Transformers franchise and using it as an example of corporate excesses in film making.

        • January 15, 2018 at 10:12 am
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          Just as I expected. Not what he thinks makes a quality movie, rather, what the business/Industry (I.e. Hollywood) thinks.

  • January 15, 2018 at 3:28 am
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    That time I saw my cousin Sally with her shirt off — that was awkward too.

    (I don’t have a cousin Sally. His name Ron, but I embellished for dramatic effect.)

  • January 15, 2018 at 3:28 am
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    That time I saw my cousin Sally with her shirt off — that was awkward too.

    (I don’t have a cousin Sally. His name Ron, but I embellished for dramatic effect.)

    • January 15, 2018 at 3:32 am
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      Lmaooo

  • January 15, 2018 at 3:37 am
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    I predict zero controversy in this comments thread for the next 24 hours.

    • January 15, 2018 at 3:46 am
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      That would make for a dreadfully boring comments thread.

  • January 15, 2018 at 3:41 am
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    It’s difficult for a bantha to hold a lightsaber, especially when it is ignited.

    • January 15, 2018 at 4:06 am
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      I know I shouldn’t hold my lightsaber when I’m lit either.

  • January 15, 2018 at 3:42 am
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    Remember when we all thought Rian Johnson was going to tell a deep story. Some thought about Kylo being strong because he has light and dark. The First Jedi Temple, oh cool. We will dwell into the real Force. First Prime Jedi and the First Jedi Temple, Luke had to go because he found some achient secret. Blah, blah, blah.

    What no one guessed: they’d tell a story that looked and felt almost exactly like the OT, except a few changes and a super Mary Sue.

    Empire with Uber super weapons – check
    White Armored ST— check
    Darksider with special blood — check
    Rebel fly boy with trigger finger — check
    Small band of rebel — check
    New Hope from a sandy planet because a untrained Jedi – Check
    Hope saved in galaxy — check
    Force ghost – checks
    Master Jedi sacrifices himself with a diversion — check
    Master Jedi is Force Ghost — cheek

    Cool, and that’s just the OT. What’s the new ST add to this

    Few new Force abilities — check
    Story trashing OT heroes as failures at parenting and hero’ing — check
    Mary Sue who can do everything with no effort — chevk

    Apparently the Chinese are too smart to be tricked into buying the whole TLJ is revolutionary new story direction for the franchise and see past the push to make Disney Orphans and a super Mary Sue character who rarely pay the consequences for her mistakes. Anakin, Kenobi, Luke, Yoda. Must train in the force, Strong you will get.

    • January 15, 2018 at 4:06 am
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      Seven out of those “checks” were established in TFA, not TLJ.

      • January 15, 2018 at 3:13 pm
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        Details are not important in this conversation. At least not until someone decides to nitpick the heck out TLJ and request an explanation for any minute detail that wasn’t explained in an obvious and unnatural fashion in the film itself. Then they are everything.

    • January 15, 2018 at 7:19 am
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      The chinese are also smart enough to love such classics as Terminator: Genysis and Fast 8 or whatever it’s called.

      • January 15, 2018 at 10:09 am
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        Theory: China has been working secretly on a pseudo-Skynet project, and employees are legally required to see the movie to gain appreciation for what their impending world domination could look like. So as to keep morale high.

        And Fast 8, well we know China manufactures everything, so why wouldn’t they want to see their craftsmanship in a Hollywood movie.

    • January 15, 2018 at 10:02 am
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      Well she’d have to make mistakes first. 😉

  • January 15, 2018 at 3:43 am
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    Sometimes banthas would rather hold a blaster because it is much safer than a lightsaber.

    • January 15, 2018 at 4:15 am
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      Yet I can name only two other films on that list that’d I’d ever care to watch a second time.

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:18 am
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        Which ones?

        • January 15, 2018 at 4:20 am
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          Frozen and Furious 7 — every day for the rest of my life.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:22 am
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            Let it go! Let it go!

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:23 am
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            One is obviously TFA — I’ll let you guess the other.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:28 am
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            Nah — not bad, but both Avengers are kinda saccharine for me and I realize that’s possibly my own character flaw.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:24 am
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            Titanic

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:26 am
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            Nope — Titanic and Avatar were both contenders for my prior sarcastic comment as well.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:24 am
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            Suddenly feel like Robert De Niro’s character playing Russian Roulette in The Deer Hunter.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:27 am
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            Too much. i can’t take the pressure.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:31 am
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            Deathly Hallows.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:28 am
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            3 bullets!!! 3 bullets!!!

    • January 15, 2018 at 4:33 am
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      Grace Randolph, eh? Isn’t she the loon who started the whole “Disney pays critics to trash other people’s movies!” conspiracy?

      – Pomojema

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:39 am
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        i’d be careful about calling out others on peddling conspiracy theories there hoss.

        • January 15, 2018 at 4:45 am
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          And what conspiracy theory am I peddling here? All I wrote is that the movie made a ton of money, though not as much as Disney might have initially hoped for.

          – Pomojema

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:55 am
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            Which there’s evidence for. There still has yet to be any empirical evidence to suggest that Disney pays off critics, and even less now that Disney failed to cover up their spat with The LA Times while also supposedly having total control of every critic in Hollywood.

            – Pomojema

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:04 am
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            I have to agree. I do not think Disney is paying off critics, unless evidence to the contrary surfaces at some point.

            Rather, I think the bulk of paid critics are praising and defending the film for political reasons, without regard to actual film craft.

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:05 am
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            I mentioned this a few days ago, but Disney is grooming & turning former theme park LARP actors into supposed critics and pundits who are continually selling this movie hard beyond the realm of how any objective critic should ever behave — so yeah, something is up.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:39 pm
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            And I think you seem to think the political stuff is why people like it when I think it is why you dislike it.

            So why is your way ok but not the other?

          • January 15, 2018 at 8:14 pm
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            The silly social justice politics is only one of many reasons that I don’t like the films. The primary reason I don’t like the film, is because of the poor film craft. The boring 1 dimensional characters, the plot contrivances, the bad pacing and editing, the cringeworthy dialogue, the cannibalistic art design, the retreaded storyline, etc.

            Most of the critics praising this film are ignoring the poor film craft, and parising it solely because it conveys political messaging they agree with.

            That’s the difference. Politics should be a secondary consideration next to actual film craft.

          • January 15, 2018 at 9:38 pm
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            I disagree on all that, but I imagine you love the dialogue of the previous movies? They weren’t exactly award winning always. It’s about the same level.

            “Most of the critics praising this film are ignoring the poor film craft, and parising it solely because it conveys political messaging they agree with.”

            This is baseless and entirely subjective.

            You have nothing really to stand on here. You don’t like the politics and anyone who likes the movies is because of that. Maybe they disagree about the poor craft.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:34 pm
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            I think the dialogue in the OT is written very well, while the dialogue in PT has significant problems, and is a bit on-the-nose most of the time.

            In fact, the original Star Wars won multiple awards.

            http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759/awards

            I’m afraid its neither baseless nor subjective. I’m basing things not only on own personal preference, but also my training and professional experience in film craft. That’s certainly something to stand on.

            You may feel that the only reason I don’t like the movie is because of politics alone. But in order to do that, you need to ignore everything else I’ve written so that I comply with the narrative you’re fantasizing about.

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:19 am
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            Yes, I am very aware of Star Wars history. It only won a single award for writing, the Saturn award.

            It’s not subjective? HAHAHAHA. ok, we are done here.

            You can’t make this up.

            Don’t quit your day job. You aren’t the only one with training.

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:28 am
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            Okay.

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:32 am
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            first of all, i never said i agreed with her. but second, i haven’t seen any evidence for bots beyond anecdotal or some rando on facebook claiming they did it. the truth is everyone rushed embrace that conspiracy before any evidence was provided just because the stupid RT score was low. this protect shield at all costs mentality among the community and even the industry media is just as damaging as claiming a studio is controlling things.

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:38 am
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            I’d love to see proof of this bot thing. I for one have read many reviews over at RT and while there are pages worth of good, solid reasons for not liking the movie, most 4 or 5 stars reviews are two lines of “I love the risks and surprises Rian had for us” so if there are any bots, I’d say they are working for Disney.

          • January 15, 2018 at 7:29 pm
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            Out of interest, what evidence is there of Bots? The attention seeking losers who claimed to have done it?

            The owners of RT have stated that there is no evidence of Bot activity.

            Is there some newer evidence?

          • January 17, 2018 at 8:58 am
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            RT would never admit to it because it would put every single audience rating that they have into question… And it would tell their advertisers that they’ve been wasting money trying to appeal to “people” who don’t actually exist. If they admitted to it, then I think Disney could possibly take them to court for hurting their movie’s business by allowing such abuses of their system to happen without doing anything about it.

            Most sites with tons of traffic have to deal with that issue and it’s a massive elephant in the room. As for evidence, you can try the fact that most accounts that rated the movie poorly were Facebook-connected accounts (a social media platform that has tons of bots), or the fact that other films (like The Shape Of Water) were hit with low scores for descriptions that were obviously aimed at TLJ.

            – Pomojema

          • January 17, 2018 at 7:29 pm
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            So I am right in my suspicion that the only evidence for bots on RT is the people who claim to have done it?

            I would expect the opposite to be true about Rotten Tomatoes; I imagine that they would be quick to point out that they have addressed any issues that would affect the integrity of their data.

            With SWNN when it was discovered that someone had attempted to skew the results it was a fairly simple task to weed out the tainted data as it would be with any bot attack.

            Ultimately the argument that the negative reviews on RT are solely down to some script kiddies is flawed unless some evidence exists that prove they did the deed.

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:40 am
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        Yup indeed.

        • January 15, 2018 at 5:06 am
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          Never said they were saints… Just said that the idea that they’re a part of a massive journalistic conspiracy involving critics is insane, especially when one instance of a spat with an actual publication happened recently and was noticed by a number of Hollywood insiders.

          – Pomojema

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:24 am
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            In fact it’s not insane at all.

            After all, we know that Disney is forcing theaters to keep TLJ in their largest auditoriums for 4 weeks without regard to the actual box office performance of the film.

            I’d say that this demonstrates that Disney is capable of many things, though I’m very skeptical about this particular accusation myself.

          • January 17, 2018 at 9:15 am
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            “After all, we know that Disney is forcing theaters to keep TLJ in their largest auditoriums for 4 weeks without regard to the actual box office performance of the film.”

            …Which they, and some other studios, have done with other movie franchises. Distributors love to complain (and not without justification), but this isn’t exactly anything new.

            – Pomojema

  • January 15, 2018 at 4:09 am
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    so for the record, lets recap the mountain of excuses piling up:
    -Bots
    -Disgruntled fan boys
    -unfair expectations
    -movie to smart for bonehead mass audience
    -racists and/or sexists
    -the calendar
    -second rate sequels are too strong a competition for the TLJ
    -it was never expected to make that much anyway
    -china never liked SW

    can we start calling a spade a spade now?

    • January 15, 2018 at 4:24 am
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      Yes, lets call a spade a spade. The Last Jedi was the highest grossing movie of the year. But it sucked because it didn’t make a trillion dollars and even if it had, it would still suck because box office doesn’t equal quality. And apparently everyone here is a Disney shareholder because we’re all so obsessed with the box office.

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:26 am
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        That’s also one of the trademark signs of a bad film.

        When the conversation turns to box office in order to prove one point or another, and away from the film itself.

        • January 15, 2018 at 4:27 am
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          That doesn’t seem like an objective statement.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:39 am
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            It is.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:41 am
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            My unsolicited advice is: even if you don’t know what objective means, you don’t have to advertise that ignorance to the world.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:43 am
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            I’m fully aware of what the definition of objective is, which is precisely why left the response that I did, your own blatant ignorance notwithstanding.

            If you don’t feel that it is an objective statement, then demonstrate why that is, rather than engage in entirely worthless ad hominems which serve only to undermine any point you’re trying to make here.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:47 am
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            For it to be an objective statement, you have to have an objective definition of “bad.” You need to explicitly define what it means to start talking about box office over the movie itself. Clearly every movie generates discussions of plot and profit.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:59 am
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            Let’s use the Original Trilogy as an example.

            When it was released from 1977-1983, the primary discussion among fans and critics was the film itself. The heroes and the villains. The ships and their technology. The artwork. The technical advances in film making. The costumes and sets.
            The locations. The aliens, the planets, the cultures. The then new concept of a used universe in a science fiction film. Etc. These kinds of discussions went on for the remainder of the 80s and well into the 90s.

            There was a modicum of talk about box office, but not much. Part of that of course was because with no internet, instant numbers weren’t available. Still, we didn’t live in caves, so we did have access to box office numbers via newspapers, magazines, newsletters, television, radio, etc. It’s just that people were far more interested in the movies themselves, than trying to prove or disprove that they were either a success or failure by citing box office.

            In the modern era, we find focused discussion of box office to either disprove or prove a film’s success, typically after its become fairly obvious by truly objective people that the film is bad. This is because the film itself, just isn’t interesting enough to facilitate conversation about it. The hubbub around the film becomes more interesting than the film itself. So the general conversation moves away from the film, and to the ancillary conditions surrounding it.

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:18 am
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            I call that the SportsCenterFication of film punditry, and agree 100% it’s asinine.

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:18 am
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            I call that the SportsCenterFication of film punditry, and agree 100% it’s asinine.

          • January 15, 2018 at 12:23 pm
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            None of that addresses my point about objectivity.

          • January 15, 2018 at 8:03 pm
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            Of course it does.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:21 am
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            Words and phrases like primary, modicum, general conversation, and not much are all subjective. If you want to be objective, you need data and metrics. It’s like calling someone a good batter without addressing batting average, RBIs, or on base percentage.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:21 am
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            Words and phrases like primary, modicum, general conversation, and not much are all subjective. If you want to be objective, you need data and metrics. It’s like calling someone a good batter without addressing batting average, RBIs, or on base percentage.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:32 am
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            It’s important not to just pick out key words, but rather, to read the comment in its entirety to understand the fill context. If you ahd done that, you’d know that I’ve outlined a metric above. Here it is in condensed form:

            If we’re talking about more about metrics rather than the movie itself, it’s because the movie itself just isn’t compelling enough to talk about.

            There’s your metric.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:39 am
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            That’s just a subjective statement though. I fully understand your point, you just fail to realize or admit that it’s not objective.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:45 am
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            I think your last statement more accurately applies to yourself here.

            You wanted a metric. I supplied you a metric.

            You’re refusing to accept that.

            I’m sorry this doesn’t comply with the narrative you’re attempting to craft, but this is the way it is anyway.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:51 am
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            You didn’t supply an objective metric which is precisely the problem. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with saying “in my experience/opinion, when there’s a lot of talk about box office, it means the movie sucks.” Perfectly reasonable statement…just not at all objective.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:57 am
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            Except, that’s not the statement that I made, or would make. Rather, that’s a statement of your own fabrication.

            Rather, what I did say instead, was that when the conversation moves more towards box office to prove a point one way or the other about the quality of said film and away from discussion of the film itself, it’s because the film itself isn’t compelling enough to facilitate discussion about it. That’s significantly different than the statement you have in quoation marks there, which I never wrote. Do you understand the distinction?

            If you’re unwilling to accept the objective metric that I provided to you, that’s your problem, not mine. I can only lead a horse to water, I can’t make him drink.

          • January 16, 2018 at 1:04 am
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            It’s difficult sometimes without specific training and education to truly realize how much if what we think is objective actually isn’t. On Disqus, there are plenty of articles that address plot points as well as box office. The same was true of The Force Awakens. What you’d need is some metric or operating definitions. You’d need to define exactly what “conversation turns more toward box office” actually means. You need parameters defining which conversations matter. You’d need to set parameters for what constitutes box office conversation. As it stands, you’re just making a subjective statement based in your personal observations.

          • January 16, 2018 at 1:30 am
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            I’m not sure that I would value the specific training and education that causes you to keep mischaracterizing what I actually stated.

            What “conversation turns more towards box office” means, is when the conversation turns more towards box office. So for instance, if 98% of the conversations taking place about a film involves the film itself, then that would mean that the conversation is more about the movie itself than about box office or other miscellanea. This of course is becauses 98% is more than 2%. But the more the conversation about the film itself diminishes, the less compelling the material in the film is. When the material in the film is not compelling enough to warrant more conversation about the film itself, then conversation about the film itself diminishes. So when you pass below the 50% mark, less than 50% conversation about the film itself. the “conversation turns more towards box office.” This is because less than 50% is less than half, therefore there is less talk about the film itself, and more about outside matters, because 49% and lower is less than 51% and more. In this case, the matters outside of the film show themselves to be more compelling than the film itself, because they cause far more discussion. People tend to discuss things they find compelling, and don’t discuss things they don’t find compelling, this conversation notwithstanding.

            The really fascinating part of all this, is that having to type out all of these self-evident details as a response shows how some have a pretty dedicated desperation to mischaracterize and discredit my statements, or those like mine. The fact that we’re spending all this time discussing the objectivity of statements or lack thereof rather than Twin Ion Engines, demonstrates just how uncompelling this film really is. Thank you for working with me to confirm my point.

          • January 16, 2018 at 1:37 am
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            But that’s still all subjective. I’m really not trying to discredit you in anyway. Everyone is entitled to an opinion on the film. The problem arises when someone tries to prove their opinion as fact by suggesting subjective statements have objective merit.

          • January 16, 2018 at 1:45 am
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            Well, we’ve gone through the painful minutiae of this enough. It is objective, rather than subjective. Period. Either you’re unable or unwilling to accept this reality. Either way, the primary problem you’re going have here is that anyone can look up the thread and see exactly what has been written.

            In any case, this conversation has run its course, and unlike most of those defending this film, I prefer to talk about the film itself. So whenyou have something to say about the film itself, let me know. Although I can certainly understand why those defending it might not want to.

          • January 16, 2018 at 1:55 am
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            My problem, I concede, is that I’m too scientifically minded and analytical at times. After years of research, I became good at distinguishing the subjective from the objective. You can’t do science subjectively. Wherever possible, you need metrics and are required to be as objective as possible. If rating movies objectively was simple or even possible, there wouldn’t be an industry of critics, nor would there be endless articles compiling the “best movies if the year/decade/all time each consisting of different entries.

          • January 16, 2018 at 1:59 am
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            You’re beating a dead horse. I gave you the very metrics that you’re stupidly lecturing me about. Reread the thread.

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:11 am
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            You gave me vaguely defined metrics. You didn’t give me data. You also havent demonstrated a correlation between percentage of conversation regarding box office and movie quality. That amounts to utter lack of objectivity.

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:29 am
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            Review the thread.

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:43 am
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            Then what?

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:43 am
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            Then what?

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:45 am
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            Let me know when you find what it is that you’re looking for.

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:52 am
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            You sent me on this quest. I never said I was looking for anything.

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:57 am
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            Review the thread.

          • January 16, 2018 at 3:03 am
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            As I asked before: then what?

          • January 16, 2018 at 4:55 am
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            Review the thread.

          • January 16, 2018 at 5:00 am
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            Now you’re just being silly. Look, you proposed the notion that you think a potential way to rate a movie’s quality objectively is to look at the conversations it generates. The problem is that this is just a subjective opinion that ignores other factors. The other problem is that even if you were to overcome the first problem, you haven’t got the data to tell you what kind of how many discussions The Last Jedi has generated. Once again, all you have is personal, subjective observation.

          • January 16, 2018 at 5:05 am
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            Review the thread.

          • January 17, 2018 at 8:49 pm
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            You need to stop using college debate skills to try and sound intelligent.

            He made a good case, admit so and move on kid.

          • January 17, 2018 at 9:02 pm
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            I wasn’t arguing his point, just the undeniable fact that it was in no way objective. Try to keep up and don’t be so resentful of the educated.

          • January 17, 2018 at 9:22 pm
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            lol, never behind. He proved it….move along, with your self proclamations of being educated.

            Be a true intellect and cede the point.

          • January 17, 2018 at 11:00 pm
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            Your argument is with the dictionary, not with me.

          • January 17, 2018 at 11:37 pm
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            lol….

          • January 18, 2018 at 12:07 am
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            You’ve got to try to understand that no matter how much you love or hate a movie, it’s virtually impossible to objectively judge that movie as good or bad. If you know of some method to do so, I’d love to hear it.

          • January 18, 2018 at 2:22 am
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            you are correct, if you love or hate it. We need someone not immersed in our culture….to watch them all and report their view. My guess would be to do in China.

            sounds like a good project! Please proceed on recruitment of a sample of 100. Rent small theatre, and play same group one film a night.

          • January 18, 2018 at 2:34 am
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            That’s not objective though.

          • January 18, 2018 at 3:08 am
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            man, your too anal. That’s as objective as you can get!

          • January 18, 2018 at 3:10 am
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            That’s a popularity contest though. If its just about popularity, how can you possibly argue that the highest grossing movie of the year is objectively bad?

          • January 18, 2018 at 3:56 am
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            These people would not be emotionally involved which allows for their objective opinion.
            That’s not my argument. You asked me how to have an objective opinion on it. That is as close as possible.

          • January 18, 2018 at 4:03 am
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            I don’t see how 100 subjective opinions make for an objective judgement. But at least you’ve conceded that there is no way to be truly objective and implied the OP that you were defending wasn’t objective since you’ve stated that his idea not only wasn’t objective, but wasn’t even as close to objective as we can get.

            This whole thing has gotten ridiculous. I am not arguing that the movie is good or bad. I’m just pointing out that while I loved it, I can’t say is is objectively good. He is trying to suggest that because he didn’t like it, it’s objectively bad. I’m just saying they are both subjective opinions.

          • January 18, 2018 at 4:42 am
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            your a tough nut…..in the case of your two opinions, they are subjective. agreed.

            The 100 would be objective to begin with.

          • January 18, 2018 at 4:47 am
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            Are the 100 giving opinions on the movie?

          • January 18, 2018 at 5:20 am
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            no, they would lay the movie out… individually for personal review of each movie.

            Much like laying out evidence in a case.

          • January 18, 2018 at 5:20 am
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            no, they would lay the movie out… individually for personal review of each movie.

            Much like laying out evidence in a case.

          • January 18, 2018 at 12:30 pm
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            What’s the difference between opinion and “personal review?”

          • January 18, 2018 at 8:26 pm
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            You can have an opinion of a “thing” or you can articulate facts about a “thing”…..this is where the personal review would fall.

          • January 18, 2018 at 8:36 pm
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            And are not facts objective while personal opinions are subjective?

          • January 18, 2018 at 9:01 pm
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            presenting facts are not the same as presenting opinion. Are you telling me no one can be objective in presenting a personal review?

          • January 19, 2018 at 12:41 am
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            Essentially, yes that’s what I’m telling you. If it’s objective, it’s the same for everyone. I can be objective about the length, the number of effects shots, the cast. I can not objectively say if a movie is good or bad. The original poster stated that it was objectively bad because he thought people were talking more about box office than story. The first problem here is that he collected no data…he didn’t do a meta-analysis on all articles and comments related to The Last Jedi. The bigger problem is that even if he had, and even if there were more articles and comments about the box office, this isn’t an objective way of determining the movie was bad. This is just a personal, arbitrary, SUBJECTIVE criteria that, in his subjective opinion, determines whether a movie is good or bad.

          • January 19, 2018 at 1:03 am
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            ok, point made on his being subjective. My method would give you an objective view, or in theory…the closest possible way.

          • January 19, 2018 at 1:17 am
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            Your method of asking 100 Chinese people for subjective opinions is the best way to determine if a movie is objectively bad? Why does there have to objectivity? We’ve got objectivity in the box office. We’ve got aggregated opinion data. In the end, we all decide if we think a movie is good or bad just like we back with a piece of art, book, or song. Isn’t subjectivity more fun and interesting?

          • January 19, 2018 at 1:48 am
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            I agree, it is better. You said you didn’t know a way and I offered one.

          • January 19, 2018 at 1:51 am
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            Your best attempt was totally subjective though.

          • January 19, 2018 at 2:34 am
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            lol….youre nuts. enjoy SW subjectively…haha

          • January 19, 2018 at 2:42 am
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            Am I nuts though? You started off insulting me and now you’ve admitted the guy you originally defended was wrong. You’ve admitted that movies cannot be objectively judged good or bad. It seems like you’re upset because you want me to cede a point for the sake of ceding even though were both in agreement with the point in question.

          • January 19, 2018 at 4:45 am
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            one….he made a good point.
            two….not even mad
            three…you made a good point as well
            Lastly, I showed you a set to do so. You, sir need to be able to cede points when valid.

          • January 19, 2018 at 7:39 am
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            It was never about whether his point was good or bad. All I said was that it wasn’t an objective point.

          • January 19, 2018 at 4:46 am
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            how long you been in the debate club?

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:37 pm
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            The reason there are so many websites devoted to box office numbers is because it is a common and popular topic of discussion.

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:43 pm
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            “The reason we talk about it is because we talk about it”. Super, very insightful.

          • January 15, 2018 at 8:15 pm
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            Especially when a big tent pole movie bombs.

          • January 15, 2018 at 9:37 pm
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            It’s always there. There is even a fantasy movie league where people guess the box office totals.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:14 pm
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            It’s always there to some degree, yes. But the crescendo over it increases when a film bombs. That’s the point.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:29 pm
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            And this movie isn’t bombing.

            but fanboys who disliked it are trying to create that narrative.

            Fake news.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:41 pm
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            The numbers speak for themselves. The movie has a fantastic opening weekend, but it’s been a downward spirial since. If Disney weren’t forcing theaters to keep the film in their largest auditorium for a 4 week minimum, there’s a very good chance that it would have left most theaters a couple of weeks ago.

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:17 am
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            Yes, most movies go down after opening weekend lol

          • January 16, 2018 at 3:37 am
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            The numbers do speak for themselves…highest grossing movie of the year.

          • January 16, 2018 at 4:56 am
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            That’s one way of looking at the numbers.

            But see my post further down towards the bottom of the comments section.

          • January 16, 2018 at 5:14 am
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            I’m more in the mood for intelligent comments from educated people. But I’ll get back to the children soon enough.

          • January 16, 2018 at 5:31 am
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            Meh.

          • January 17, 2018 at 8:52 pm
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            don’t debate deadly……he’s a puppeteer working for Disney.

        • January 15, 2018 at 4:36 pm
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          Not true at all. It’s a sign fanboys, so mad at the movie, are looking for any thing at all to prove their point.

          • January 15, 2018 at 8:16 pm
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            Oh nonsense. There’s many more people than just fanboys displeased with this film, and one doesn’t have to look hard to find faults in it.

          • January 15, 2018 at 9:36 pm
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            I’ve only seen entitled fanboys so far.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:15 pm
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            Then you’re not seeing the full picture.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:28 pm
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            I will be sure to go out of my way to find the mainstream people who are too busy not caring.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:39 pm
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            Well, we all have our goals.

          • January 17, 2018 at 8:55 pm
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            your so full of yourself. Nearly half the fans hate this movie.
            Do you get bonus pay for spinning narrative?

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:30 am
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        i didn’t once say it sucked, stop projecting. i am saying that shedding at least 700 million off TFA is a problem. i’m saying mixed fan reactions is a problem. i’m saying bombing in china is a problem. now we can either acknowledge these facts or keep making up excuses.

        • January 15, 2018 at 4:32 am
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          It’s not a problem that has anything to do with you or me.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:33 am
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            oh i’m sorry, i guess i shouldn’t talk about the business angle in a comment section of an article DEDICATED to this topic. my bad.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:35 am
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            You can talk about whatever you want, it doesn’t mean it’s relevant to you.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:39 am
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            It’s just fantasy.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:39 am
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            It’s just fantasy.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:39 am
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            Also you have to realize that these articles are being posted as a reaction to the notion that the highest grossing movie if the year was a bomb. Would Disney have liked it to make more? Sure, every studio wishes every movie made more. These articles are here to offer some perspective that there’s a lot of room between highest grossing movie of all time and box office bomb.

          • January 15, 2018 at 7:39 am
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            I wouldn’t say it was a “bomb.” It was a success if you’re a shareholder or concerned with profits. I’ll openly say the movie “sucked ass” for a Star Wars movies. Even if you didn’t like the Prequels, they were Star Wars movies. I don’t know what the hell TLJ was, but it wasn’t a Star Wars movie.

          • January 16, 2018 at 3:10 pm
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            That’s funny, it felt like Star Wars to me.

        • January 15, 2018 at 9:09 am
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          The fact it hasn’t made as much as TFA is simply there was a ten year absence of any Star Wars from cinemas and also thirty one year’s since ROTJ, so a huge appetite was there for the continuation of the saga. TFA was a zietgeist, due to the curiosity factor of seeing the legacy characters back on screen again. we are now on our third SW movie in three years, there is going to be some drop in box office returns, I highly doubt any SW film will make those kind of numbers again

          • January 15, 2018 at 9:31 am
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            absolutely, TFA was a black swan event and no one was expecting TLJ to replicate it 100%. however, for comparisons sake lets talk about marvel for a second and their own black swan event. the first avengers film i think we can all agree, like TFA, was a once in a life time situation. seeing all those superheroes on screen together like that had never happened before and as a result the film was a cultural phenomenon that made like 1.5 billion. fast forward three years and several more MCU films later and age of ultron comes out with out that same event like atmosphere of the first film and it still makes 1.4 billion. so despite marvel flooding the market with superhero films and despite not having the original feeling of the first film it still pretty much matched it dollar wise. while as i said previous, star wars has dropped 700 big ones from movie one to movie two. if star wars after only three films is already suffering from viewer fatigue that marvel has mostly avoided for a decade, they are in deep poodoo.

          • January 16, 2018 at 4:22 am
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            Because YOU decided how much it should have made? Disney owns Marvel and Lucasfilm. I think they’ll be satisfied with billion dollar movies that are top grossing for the year. When they start losing money they’re in trouble. Ever sold a house? Something on eBay? Trade stocks? We’d all love a higher return on investments. The numbers aren’t relatable because I’m assuming no one here is a billionaire. But many movies lose money. We’re talking about a movie in Star Wars the made hundreds of millions in profit. To suggest that this is problematic is really absurd. You act as if Disney is going to say “We only made a profit of $800 million? Screw this, not even worth it. Scrap Lucasfilm.” You could even argue that the profits didn’t meet expectations. But sign me up for the problem of only making several hundred million in profits.

          • January 16, 2018 at 4:56 am
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            calm down, please. the point of my comment was to point out what was possible in the context of following up a once a generation event. also, its not just me(a rando on the internet) that thought it would make more, most projections were in the 1.6-1.7 and this continued to be stated as possible despite the poor second week showing. further, there is no such thing as “enough money” in corporate america. if the disney shareholders think they left 3 or 400 million on the table they will want to know why. finally, the whole point of this discussion isn’t to say lucasfilm is screwed(your hyperbolic assertion) but to merely point out a trend that should be considered thoughtfully and honestly.

          • January 16, 2018 at 5:46 am
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            if star wars after only three films is already suffering from viewer fatigue that marvel has mostly avoided for a decade, they are in deep poodoo.

            Who’s being hyperbolic?

          • January 16, 2018 at 6:23 am
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            thank you for taking that sentence out of context. i was responding to a previous comment that said the drop in box office was due to viewer fatigue(three films in three years). i was responding to that hypothesis with the assertion that if(if being the key word here) they are already suffering from view fatigue this early on in the game its a significant issue. a statement i stand by in that context.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:28 pm
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            You’re welcome.

        • January 15, 2018 at 10:43 am
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          Interestingly, the only 3 members of the $2 bn club, each joined in a different decade:

          1. Avatar 2009
          2. Titantic 1997
          3. The Force Awakens 2015

          Proving that those kind of movies only happen every so often.

          The next movie on the list 4. Jurassic World (2015), fell $400 million short of The Force Awakens.

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:35 pm
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            didn’t say it had to make two billion again. i did say it shouldn’t have dropped as far as it did off TFA’s pace.

        • January 15, 2018 at 4:34 pm
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          TFA was a once in a lifetime event.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:41 pm
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            just like the Avengers this summer

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:43 pm
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            Not really. This will be the 3rd avengers movie in 5 years.

            TFA was a return to a franchise everyone thought was not coming back, bringing back the cast from 40 years ago and new characters, catering to both nostalgia and new audiences.

            It was the first Star Wars movie in 10 years and one we all thought would never be made.

            Once in a lifetime.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:43 pm
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            Not really. This will be the 3rd avengers movie in 5 years.

            TFA was a return to a franchise everyone thought was not coming back, bringing back the cast from 40 years ago and new characters, catering to both nostalgia and new audiences.

            It was the first Star Wars movie in 10 years and one we all thought would never be made.

            Once in a lifetime.

    • January 15, 2018 at 8:22 am
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      I’m sure russia was somehow involved too

    • January 15, 2018 at 10:30 am
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      Three things you can’t win on social media:

      1. An argument
      2. An argument
      3. An argument

      Proving it’s not the winning that’s important, but the taking part.

      • January 15, 2018 at 7:38 pm
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        exactly. all i wanted since the movie came out is an honest discussion about it. i’m not going to troll boards like a few people here just annoy people nor do i want to change minds. just want to end the distortions and BSing.

    • January 15, 2018 at 6:28 pm
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      Is “The Alt-Right did it!” a separate category, or is that covered by ‘fan boys and racists and/or sexists’?

    • January 15, 2018 at 6:28 pm
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      Is “The Alt-Right did it!” a separate category, or is that covered by ‘fan boys and racists and/or sexists’?

  • January 15, 2018 at 4:12 am
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    Daisy’s recent comments seem to lead towards the idea of a celibate Rey, even in light of the most blatant set-up of Poe looking at her like a horn-dog.

    • January 15, 2018 at 4:19 am
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      Poes a hoe. He looks at everyone like that. Remember the Finn Poe fiasco?

  • January 15, 2018 at 4:18 am
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    “It made a lot of money, it must be good”, just like rich people are always kind, millionaire girls always pretty(looking at you, Kardashians) rich politicians always honest, rich rappers always classy… You get the idea.

  • January 15, 2018 at 4:18 am
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    “It made a lot of money, it must be good”, just like rich people are always kind, millionaire girls always pretty(looking at you, Kardashians) rich politicians always honest, rich rappers always classy… You get the idea.

    • January 15, 2018 at 4:53 am
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      The only time this argument comes up is for people who don’t like something to feel justified in not liking it. Feels like it’s a matter of sour grapes.

      – Pomojema

      • January 15, 2018 at 6:31 am
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        The argument works both ways, to rely on earnings and dismiss all other views as “naysayers” sounds also like sour grapes to me.

        • January 15, 2018 at 10:39 am
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          You miss the point. This film had legs, people went BACK to see TLJ acouple times and held on strong in box office . It was successful, and received as a good movie. The people who disliked the movie are vocal, but the minority. Its a fact. IMO this film just exposed the nostalgic “this anit MY star Wars!” side of the fanbase.. I fel half the fans are just fan fiction head canon driven and also armchair directors

          Ill be honest, ive been active here for years and alot of the predictions and theory people had sucked.. Have to say it

          • January 15, 2018 at 3:17 pm
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            Well, you are doing the same, using box ofice to prove quality and dismiss opinions as “vocal minority”. Please explain, without using the word “bots”, the 49% in Rottentomatoes or 46 in metacritic? How is 51% percent a minority? I know some people think I’m a vocal minoryt hater, but in truth I dont care, I have the OT and the EU for my Luke needs, I just rwally want to understand the other side, people who think this is a masterpiece.

          • January 15, 2018 at 3:17 pm
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            Well, you are doing the same, using box ofice to prove quality and dismiss opinions as “vocal minority”. Please explain, without using the word “bots”, the 49% in Rottentomatoes or 46 in metacritic? How is 51% percent a minority? I know some people think I’m a vocal minoryt hater, but in truth I dont care, I have the OT and the EU for my Luke needs, I just rwally want to understand the other side, people who think this is a masterpiece.

        • January 15, 2018 at 11:21 am
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          In this particular case, though, it’s the naysayers that brought up earnings first to vindicate their own opinion with “disaster” and “(real) fans striking back”. Everything that followed was basically a battle to set the record straight.

          Speaking from my own experience with other fan niches, it’s generally when a film does poorly and/or is really controversial for some people that someone brings up the box office (and hardly ever like what I’ve seen here).

        • January 17, 2018 at 9:11 am
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          I’m not denying, at any point, that this movie is one of the most contentious to come out of the franchise. I am, however, stating that saying “well a lot of crap does well at the box office too” *in this context* comes across as a justification for thinking that this movie is as hated as any of the Transformers sequels.

          – Pomojema

          • January 17, 2018 at 5:48 pm
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            I understand, I personally have never used the box office to justify what I think, either way. And I know, having worked in media for a long time, that you have to cover the news, but with all due respect, I think this site editorializes a lot, and for instance, we haven’t seen here (or any other site) a genuine reporting of the backlash, which is real, regardless of which side one stands on. But as I’ve said other times, thanks for this site, which I follow since 2014, when it was sw7news, and thanks for letting us debate here.

          • January 18, 2018 at 5:26 am
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            If you want to talk about the backlash or whatever, I think there are at least half a dozen threads about it on The Cantina.

            – Pomojema

          • January 18, 2018 at 6:05 pm
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            Thanks, I meant media coverage, but I’ll stop around the cantina.

  • January 15, 2018 at 4:20 am
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    The Tone, the Pacing, the Editing are fundamentally “OFF” in TLJ — it just doesn’t feel Star Wars. It almost feels like another company making a movie “based” on Star Wars.

    • January 15, 2018 at 7:36 am
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      Exactly. It feels like every problem is followed by another problem which just snowballs through the entire movie leaving no room for any self-correction to ever occur, equaling, a horrible movie…. I guess i have to add “in my opinion” (…right…)

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:56 pm
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        Every problem stems from the Canto Bight storyline. The rest is nearly pure awesome.

    • January 15, 2018 at 10:30 am
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      Felt 110% Star Wars to me. Your opinion is an opinion

  • January 15, 2018 at 4:47 am
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    QUESTION:

    Why didn’t the First Order simply send some of their destroyers and fighters into hyperspace ahead of the Resistance fleet, and cut them off?

    • January 15, 2018 at 4:52 am
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      Because Hyperspace doesn’t work that way.

      Holdo tried using Hyperspace to get a little ahead, for frame of reference. We saw the results in one of the movie’s best scenes.

      – Pomojema

      • January 15, 2018 at 5:01 am
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        Hyperspace always seemed to work that way before.

        Was hyperspace retconned in TLJ specifically for that movie’s “best scene?”

        • January 15, 2018 at 5:04 am
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          Nope. High-speed collisions at short-range distances lead to a ton of collateral damage.

          – Pomojema

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:26 am
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            Okay, but why would they have to go in a straight line. Couldn’t they arc around them?

          • January 15, 2018 at 5:58 am
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            Even if they could have, which, presumably, given the 360X360 axis of directions one could go even if they did have a fleet circle around or come in from another vector, there’s an important thing that prevented the First Order from doing so.

            Hubris.

            Hux, Snoke, and Ren all suffer from the lack of foresight that a cat has, toying with its prey, not realizing it might have a burst of energy and escape, or fight back. It’s their character flaw that undoes them, again and again.

            Even if there is a literal plot solution, in good writing (which Last Jedi is) sometimes the characters prevent themselves from utilizing them. And is that in character for the First Order?

            Yes. Of course.

            Hell, there’s nothing stopping the Resistance from performing the Holdo Maneuver from the first moment Snoke’s flagship is onscreen, but it’s absolutely outside of the Resistance’s character to do so until absolutely necessary. They save materiel, they do not sacrifice their heroes in a wanton way, etc, etc.

            if you look for it, you can find a hole in anything. That doesn’t mean it’s a mistake. It means that other, more important things to servicing the story take presidence.

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:16 am
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            Would you argue that the Empire in the OT also suffers the same cat-like lack of foresight?

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:23 am
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            Clearly. Multiple times. Palpatine can kill Luke, and toys with him. The landing on Hoth, where their arrogance allows the rebels to escape. Palpatine believing his apprentice is so controlled he’d never turn.

            One of the rare exceptions is Vader, arguably, when he is showing his Anakin side, with Luke. He allows him to live when he could kill him.

            But outside that, even when he’s absolutely at his most ruthless, in the asteroid field, killing entire Star Destroyers for one ship, it’s all in the arrogant confidence that he can find and convert his son, who clearly wants nothing to do with him.

            I think the best example of this is “Evacuate now? In our moment of triumph?”

            All the Death Star had to do is go to hyperspace and send maybe one or two Star Destroyers to mop up the Yavin base, but Tarkin is so arrogant, so presumptuous about his own invincibility, he holds in place thinking himself invisible.

            Then blows the hell up.

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:23 am
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            Clearly. Multiple times. Palpatine can kill Luke, and toys with him. The landing on Hoth, where their arrogance allows the rebels to escape. Palpatine believing his apprentice is so controlled he’d never turn.

            One of the rare exceptions is Vader, arguably, when he is showing his Anakin side, with Luke. He allows him to live when he could kill him.

            But outside that, even when he’s absolutely at his most ruthless, in the asteroid field, killing entire Star Destroyers for one ship, it’s all in the arrogant confidence that he can find and convert his son, who clearly wants nothing to do with him.

            I think the best example of this is “Evacuate now? In our moment of triumph?”

            All the Death Star had to do is go to hyperspace and send maybe one or two Star Destroyers to mop up the Yavin base, but Tarkin is so arrogant, so presumptuous about his own invincibility, he holds in place thinking himself invisible.

            Then blows the hell up.

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:31 am
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            Fair enough. This has been an interesting conversation.

            Turning back to the Holdo Maneuver, I have two questions.

            1) Wouldn’t the ship she was piloting be capable of auto pilot?

            2) Why wouldn’t they use this maneuver on the Death Stars and Star Killer Base, rather than sacrifice all of those fighter pilots?

            1.

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:42 am
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            I think you’re focussing on the wrong things.

            I could write a witty and persuasive answer along the lines of the fact that, like Luke’s sacrifice, Holdo’s was largely a symbolic gesture, made consciously, as a decision with Leia.

            But it doesn’t matter. That’s my point.

            Any story, even the greatest story, if you work at it, can be undone with critique. There are flaws and rips and holes in every tale ever told. I know this, because I spent ten years reviewing things, and having to decide what was worthwhile critique and what was nitpicking.

            Opinions are subjective, and there’s no right or wrong, but in large part the people savaging this movie, speaking as both a writer and a critic, have often seemed to have agendas, “gotcha” style points, or a predetermined narrative. I can’t change that, and I wouldn’t if I could, people should believe what they want, but I would encourage people who are otherwise not enjoying a thing they might like because of slight nuanced issues they have with strange, surreal, deep canon nitpicks (like the hyperspace comment) that maybe it’s okay to just let it go, have fun, and see if the work was put in by the writing.

            In this case, it very clearly was.

            The single biggest flaw in the movie, the thing people can point at the most, is the cat and mouse game that the First Order plays with the Resistance fleet. But every single person doing that is missing the forest for the trees.

            It’s like hating the Superman movie because he turns time backward by turning the world around because THAT’S SO IMPOSSIBLE but not saying jack squat about a man flying and shooting fire out of his eyes, and really enjoying the performance of the guy wearing his underwear on the outside.

            The people saying it wasn’t like this for Empire, or Jedi, forget that there was no internet, and no compulsive need on the part of the culture to take apart anything that is even remotely widely liked.

            Look at if a thing has heart, and enjoys being what it is, and does its job.

            Last Jedi does.

          • January 15, 2018 at 7:07 am
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            Are you saying that I’m watching the film incorrectly?

          • January 15, 2018 at 9:52 am
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            Yes you are.

          • January 15, 2018 at 8:35 pm
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            Then you would be entirely incorrect.

            There’s no such thing as watching a film correct, or focusing on the wrong things in a film.

            Films speak to individuals differently, and each and every aspect of a film ought to be focused on, just just the elements that support whatever point you happen to champion.

            I ought to know. I’m a film school graduate.

            That’s why I also know, that your earlier comments that focused on the film contained genuinely interesting ideas. Whereas your most recent diatribe where you engage in personal attacks in a failed attempt to invalidate my opinions just because you didn’t have readied stock answers for my questions, simply has no value.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:30 pm
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            There is a way to focus on the wrong things when you are missing the point and using it to further a wrong narrative.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:43 pm
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            You mean a narrative that you disagree with, which is a completely different and seperate thing from a wrong narrative.

            Again, there is no such thing on focusing on the wrong things. Unless you yourself are the person looking to craft a narrative, and in order to do so need to keep horse blinders on people so that they aren’t looking at the “wrong” things.

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:16 am
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            Star Wars fans do it all the time.

          • January 15, 2018 at 9:40 pm
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            You’re watching. You’re not seeing it.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:10 pm
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            I’m not sure that there’s much to see here.

          • January 16, 2018 at 1:34 am
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            You’re illustrating my point exactly.

          • January 16, 2018 at 1:51 am
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            Okay.

          • January 16, 2018 at 1:51 am
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            Okay.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:40 pm
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            has anyone seen this man?

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:33 pm
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            you can’t have a deeply interconnected and nuanced universe and lore and then expect everyone to accept everything at 100% face value. i mean lucky buggers who just watch the films can and i wish i was one of them, but if you read the canon you can’t help but question it. its not our fault for caring. and for the record the OT has been combed over and analyzed backwards and forwards for 40 years, social media or not.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:48 pm
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            That’s a straw man. I didn’t say, anywhere, that anyone had to accept everything at face value.

            I did, however, say that people looking for reasons to be upset will achieve their goal, and sometimes that comes at the expense of not enjoying a thing of clear craft and worth.

            It’s absolutely your choice, of course. I am simply, as a person with a ton of experience with critique, advising against it. I see a lot of people on this site using preconceived notions of absolute canon truth to ruin their own good time. Honestly, I kind of feel for them more than condemn them.

          • January 15, 2018 at 11:28 pm
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            With all due respect Mr Bailey, we aren’t professional critics and this isn’t Roger Ebert’s website. It’s a starwars fan blog full of people giving their two cents on a franchise they love. Does it all make sense? No. Does it get tiresome at times? Sure. But for many people it’s just fun to chew the fat on these things and debate the finer points. If you want legit peer reviewed analysis I suggest you are in the wrong place.

          • January 15, 2018 at 11:59 pm
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            No shit, it’s a comments section.

            I apologize for trying to think a little bit and maybe engage a little deeper.

            My mistake, clearly.

            Don’t worry. I won’t make that mistake again on this site.

            You win, and may have solely whatever the hell you believe it is you gain by avoiding any thinking more difficult than IT ROCKS or IT SUCKS.

            Enjoy that.

          • January 15, 2018 at 11:59 pm
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            Are you the Neal Bailey with tons of experience that raved about Johnny Depp as Willy Wonka?

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:26 am
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            In point of fact, I honestly have no idea, because I’ve written so many damned reviews at this point, I couldn’t tell you.

            I do know I’m not a shitass who deep combs the internet for random, cherry-picked bullshit to try and undermine someone else’s opinion without actually addressing it in any substantive way, which is nice, because it would make me a catastrophic clusterfuck of a dickhole with no life hiding behind anonymity to sadly attempt to troll other people he’s never met who speak to others using their real names in good faith.

            And that’s good enough for me.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:35 am
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            Oh blow it out your noise hole, you pretentious fuck. YOU’RE the one who wants everyone to pay lots and lots of attention to him because of (insert ludicrous, completely unsupported appeal to authority, followed by actual tantrum when asked about this critical experience here). You make the claim, you back it up, chum, or give your ‘decades of critical experience’ a rest. Jesus.

          • January 16, 2018 at 3:55 am
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            “YOU’RE the one who wants everyone to pay lots and lots of attention to him”

            This is a surprise, considering that I could give an absolutely negligible number of fucks if anyone, including you, read or respond to any of this.

            You see, I know it’s hard to figure out, given that you’ve made over twelve THOUSAND comments on Disqus alone, and thusly you clearly lack any capacity for not getting this particular net, but most people, myself included, could give nary a fuck what anonymous internet dicks like you think about literally anything. You live in a sad world where you think people owe you explanations for things they weren’t even talking to you about. I’d be angry if it weren’t so pathetic. I actually pity you.

            I’m gonna tell you something, buddy. That’s a shitty, lonely world. It’s an echo chamber, and it does nothing but hurt you. You should leave it. You’re not very good at it, and it’s never going to personally profit you in any way. Well, unless being known as an anonymous asshole is your thing.

            Join us out here, in real life, where flowers smell good in the sun and you don’t have to worry at all about the things strangers say on the internet. It’s fun. There are girls, and beer, and you never have an odd moment wondering if your own raging rampant internet assholery is really a mask for insecurity and your own inadequacy.

            Or, you know, do what you’re gonna do, and comment some more defensive bullshit after this. I dunno. I won’t be here for it. Cheers either way, and I hope you find some peace with that mediocrity.

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:22 pm
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            I have another question to add after seeing it for the second time yesterday. K, first, the facts. When they’re loading the transports, the assumption is that everyone is going to slip away unnoticed, correct? That’s Holdo’s whole plan? Also, there’s nobody on the bridge flying the cruiser while they’re having their touching send off, correct? Holdo doesn’t actually do any piloting (meaning the cruiser doesn’t need to be actively piloted) until it turns out her plan is falling to shit and she needs to turn the ship around (so, yes, there’s an autopilot, or there wasn’t one needed for her plan). We’re all agreed on those basic facts? Good. Okay, so my question then is:
            .
            .
            WHY DID SHE STAY IN THE FIRST PLACE? Holdo staying behind doesn’t make sense unless she’s assuming from the start that her plan isn’t going to work, a whole bunch of people on defenseless transports are going to get slaughtered, and someone is going have to be there to try and salvage the disaster she’s made. If that’s her assumption, how was Poe wrong to mutiny? If however it’s NOT her assumption that her plan is going to fail, then there’s no reason her ass isn’t on a transport. It’s a clumsy way to get where Rian wanted to go.

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:42 pm
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            this is a good point. in JJ’s star trek reboot, kirk’s dad has to stay on the kelvin because they make the point of showing that he, A. needs to protect the escape pods, and then B. the auto pilot is destroyed so he has to manually suicide the ship into the romulans. simple explanations go a long way.

          • January 15, 2018 at 7:03 pm
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            Wasn’t thinking that, and I’m not a huge fan of the film (it’s a big, dumb-as-a-sack-of-hammers soft reboot movie that’s very flashy looking and has a great ensemble cast…hmmmm…..) but, yeah. George also is ACTIVELY protecting the shuttles – by taking like three seconds to a) tell us that the shuttles need cover and b) show us that somebody has to physically remain behind to do it, that sequence makes sense, and the necessity of it gives George’s actions weight. Holdo decides to stay behind…just ’cause…and then wanders off to go loiter around the bridge until the plot needs her to do something again. It’s a tremendous visual sequence, but that robs her sacrifice of the emotional punch it should carry.

          • January 15, 2018 at 8:46 pm
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            I had that question too. Why put the Resistance on unarmed transports, leaving them utterly defenseless? It seemed that every decision Holdo made placed the Resistance in greater jeopardy, so yeah, Poe was right to mutiny.

          • January 15, 2018 at 9:45 pm
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            I’ll even give them the ‘loading everyone on transports’ thing. The movie does explain that the FO is watching the cruiser, not the small ships (I mean, I could object to that, since they can easily target those small ships at even greater range, but whatever, I’ll allow it). But that said, Holdo staying behind ONLY makes sense if you know someone is going to have to be there to make a heroic self-sacrifice later. It feels like they were one, maybe two drafts of that sequence away from having it be a really strong payoff – just SOME reason for Holdo to be there at the end.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:13 pm
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            Why wouldn’t they be watching both the cruiser and the small ships? I imagine that the crew on the First Order destroyers have more than one radar operator, of the equivalent thereof.

            I still contend that the sequence would have had more emotional impact with Admieral Ackbar completely replacing the Holdo character.

          • January 15, 2018 at 11:55 pm
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            Again, I agree with you on the transports, I’m willing to let it go though because I think if the screenwriting problem of Holdo staying behind were sorted, the transports wouldn’t really have bugged anyone. I also don’t think it can be Ackbar because Poe has no reason not to trust Ackbar. Holdo is there to serve Poe’s arc, and to make Poe’s arc work, whoever stays behind to make that sacrifice HAS to be someone Poe, as audience surrogate, doesn’t trust, and thinks is screwing the pooch, but – SURPRISE! you need to learn to think, Poe, understand the big picture, before going off half cocked. Pretty much means it HAS to be a new character in that case. I really think Rian just needed to give Holdo something that HAD to be done while the transports are escaping – anything.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:00 am
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            The whole reason that Poe doesn’t trust Holdo, is that Holdo doesn’t tell Poe the plans. Why couldn’t Ackbar withhold the plans too?

            So from my perspective it seems that Poe’s arc is learning to abandon critical thinking, and just accept whatever anyone tells you.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:30 am
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            Not to belabour this, but I think Ackbar, hero of the Alliance, gets the benefit of the doubt from his troops. Who in the audience would buy Ackbar as having questionable motives, and being potentially incompetent? Poe needs to learn to see the big picture, not the momentary glory, and using a commanding officer who he doesn’t trust isn’t the worst way to drive that arc. I do agree we’re talking about some better writing to get him where Rian wants him to go though because Holdo, as plot device, is easily the weakest part of the film.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:41 am
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            I know that folks have developed an affection for Ackbar over the years, but other than what we see in ROTJ, EU notwithstanding, we really don’t know a whole lot about him. I would say the potential for Ackbar to have questionable motives would be far more interesting specifically because of the points you mention. No one would expect it. Incompetence? Well, the ol’ fish is getting up there.

          • January 16, 2018 at 3:55 am
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            Another one. In Empire the officer said that Falcon could not have dissapear because is too small for hiding device. So why the small escape ships have it?

          • January 17, 2018 at 1:50 am
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            I didn’t think they were cloaked. Even if they were though, it’s been 30 years – again, I’ll allow them a little tech boost.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:33 pm
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            hyperspace lanes and routes follow certain paths.

          • January 15, 2018 at 8:16 pm
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            Like ley lines?

          • January 15, 2018 at 9:36 pm
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            More like airstreams that planes use.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:15 pm
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            Planes can deviate from airstreams.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:28 pm
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            Yes they can. It’s not an exact match here.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:39 pm
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            So why couldn’t starships deviate from hyperspace lanes?

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:17 am
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            Maybe they could, but maybe there was a reason they couldn’t here. it’s not important.

            This is a classic example of focusing on the wrong things.

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:28 am
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            Uh huh.

          • January 16, 2018 at 3:52 am
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            You are classic, uncle. Maybe you, or the director of the movie could tell us, the poor viewers who didn’t understand it, which are the right things to focus on…

          • January 15, 2018 at 1:55 pm
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            My only concern is the escaping fleet jumping into hyperspace in R1 appear to using the same point in space that Vader’s Star Destroyer arrives. To the point that one ship not quite at the point of hyperspace collides with Vader’s ship and bounces off.

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:20 pm
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            yes, nothing follows from one film to the next, not chronologically but actually viewing them as they are released

            Why was Vader able to drop out of hyperspace right there to stop the retreat?

            Why didnt Vader just vaporize those rebels ships, rather than have them bounce off?

            Please no hyperspace lanes crap, go watch a New Hope when Solo is explaining to Luke (and us) how hyperspace works

          • January 17, 2018 at 9:00 am
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            The Star Destroyer was decelerating while the Raddus was accelerating. Easy explanation.

            – Pomojema

          • January 17, 2018 at 5:45 pm
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            Um…..what about the ship accelerating into the Star Destroyer?

      • January 15, 2018 at 7:20 am
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        Ummm… pretty sure any First Order Astromech Droid could plot a course around the Rebel ships and “come out” ahead of the fleeing fleet.

        • January 15, 2018 at 8:54 am
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          I originally wondered why they didn’t do a pincer movement and catch them in a crossfire, but I believe it was the First Order being sadistic, playing a game of cat and mouse with the final three ships.

          • January 15, 2018 at 2:00 pm
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            haha, not anymore, now we have BS excuses for building tension,
            BS excuses from the filmmaker on why nobody gets why he did what he did
            Now we even have BS editorials on why we dont get the filmmaker,
            in the end it is still BS, and all these attempts to “inform” and “explain” end up sounding rediculous.
            The saddest thing is this film sat in post for a YEAR, and nobody had the balls to say “something is off here”
            Enjoy the big box office now because those days are over,
            just check what trending now on twitter about this disaster

          • January 15, 2018 at 2:00 pm
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            haha, not anymore, now we have BS excuses for building tension,
            BS excuses from the filmmaker on why nobody gets why he did what he did
            Now we even have BS editorials on why we dont get the filmmaker,
            in the end it is still BS, and all these attempts to “inform” and “explain” end up sounding rediculous.
            The saddest thing is this film sat in post for a YEAR, and nobody had the balls to say “something is off here”
            Enjoy the big box office now because those days are over,
            just check what trending now on twitter about this disaster

    • January 15, 2018 at 4:55 pm
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      Hyperspace is inaccurate when it comes to precise locations. The fleet could have jumped into the Raddus or too far out of range, leaving them back at square one.

      • January 15, 2018 at 7:55 pm
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        If hyperspace is that inaccurate, then how could it be used for navigation at all? If you plot a course for Alderaan, you could end up at Dagobah, or vice versa.

      • January 15, 2018 at 7:55 pm
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        If hyperspace is that inaccurate, then how could it be used for navigation at all? If you plot a course for Alderaan, you could end up at Dagobah, or vice versa.

      • January 16, 2018 at 8:01 am
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        Except when you need to use it to burst through a shield to get to Starkiller Base.

      • January 16, 2018 at 8:01 am
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        Except when you need to use it to burst through a shield to get to Starkiller Base.

    • January 15, 2018 at 7:13 pm
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      Because … Ummm look over there ….

      Because the writers didn’t give it enough thought, they were fans of Prometheus and wanted to honour it? Couldn’t think of a better way to get the characters from point A to point B? Enjoyed Battlestar Galactica? Because they wanted to subvert expectations and have a story that would be unexpected?
      Or … They’re not aware that space has more than 2 dimensions?

      • January 15, 2018 at 8:08 pm
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        In which case the writers reflect Khan Noonien Singh’s superior intellect.

        • January 15, 2018 at 8:37 pm
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          So, why didn’t they jump in front of the Rebel fleet?
          Because they KHAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNN’t!

    • January 15, 2018 at 9:32 pm
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      Hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops. Han Solo explains in Episode 4, now he’ll have to have it explained to him in Solo: A Star Wars Story, for the annoying fans of the pendantic

      • January 15, 2018 at 9:33 pm
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        Having to make navigation calculations doesn’t explain why the First Order didn’t do this.

      • January 15, 2018 at 9:33 pm
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        Having to make navigation calculations doesn’t explain why the First Order didn’t do this.

  • January 15, 2018 at 5:41 am
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    Box office numbers only tell a fraction of the story.

    Was The Last Jedi a success? From a financial stand point, obviously it was. It was always going to be. I didn’t particularly like the movie, yet I saw it twice (and probably will again) Why? Because I love Star Wars as a whole.

    Whether it was a success in terms of it being a good Star Wars film is another question. Again, I didn’t really like it, but I know people who did. I also know several people who share the same opinion I have about it.

    I think it’ll take years to really tell how good (or bad) this movie is considered to be by most viewers. Right now it appears to be rather divisive. How the movie ages with fans will be a really telling sign, I think. Even then, it’s all subjective.

    • January 15, 2018 at 5:51 am
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      You make some valid points. But I don’t think it’ll take years to know. I think the box office for Episode IX will tell us how many people were willing to come back after seeing TLJ.

      • January 15, 2018 at 5:58 am
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        I suppose that would also be pretty telling. Although, regardless of how I felt about TLJ, I’ll probably be in a theater for Episode IX on opening night. There are too many good things about Star Wars as whole to let one movie ruin all of it for the people who didn’t like this one, I think. I’m not saying that in two years people who didn’t like TLJ will all of the sudden, but I wouldn’t be surprised if a fair amount of the ones who are already boycotting IX soften their position a bit and see it anyways. We’ll see, I guess.

        • January 15, 2018 at 6:13 am
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          For myself, I’m not boycotting IX. I simply have no interest in these new characters, and really am not interested in seeing what happens to them. I guess I really just don’t have any interest in IX at this point in time.

          • January 15, 2018 at 7:18 am
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            Honestly, that’s how I feel too. Episode IX might be great, but the momentum of the new sequel trilogy has ground to a dead halt. Rian Johnson should be strung up and whipped as far as I’m concerned for his garbage PC script. Bringing Luke back can only succeed by rewritting TLJ ending, or maybe there’s another “new” Force power… “Teleportation!” Luke didn’t die…. he merely teleported himself somewhere, anywhere, literally anywhere would be better than what we were left to assume. Rian Johnson made an ass out of Luke, that’s the “tragedy” of The Last Jedi.

          • January 15, 2018 at 7:26 am
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            The film eschews larger than life epic concepts in favor of the petty political fashions of the day, that’s for certain, and will lead to the film being dated fairly quickly.

          • January 15, 2018 at 7:26 am
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            The film eschews larger than life epic concepts in favor of the petty political fashions of the day, that’s for certain, and will lead to the film being dated fairly quickly.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:32 pm
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            Then you never understood Star Wars in the first place if you think that.

          • January 15, 2018 at 8:17 pm
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            I understand Star Wars far better than most. I would argue that it’s you who doesn’t understand the franchise, since you’re unable to articulate a demonstration of your claim here.

          • January 15, 2018 at 9:26 pm
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            Chi is too arrogant to see past his faults. There is good in him, I have felt it.

          • January 15, 2018 at 9:33 pm
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            Meh.

          • January 15, 2018 at 9:35 pm
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            I don’t think you do. And you say that I can’t but can’t point to anything I’ve said that would demonstrate that, merely the fact that I haven’t yet, which you say means I am “unable to.”

            Well here goes:

            You derisively refer to them as the petty political fashions of the day, but it’s about more than that. Star Wars has always been progressive and this is continuing that same viewpoint. You just happen to not like it.

            What most see as totally normal you see as a moment that will be outdated, forgetting that the Emperor was based on Richard Nixon, the Rebels on the Viet Cong (and Ewoks) and freaking Lott Dod was named after Trent Lott, a GOP Senator in the 90s.

            The film embraces larger than life concepts such as the Force being part of all life and not just belonging to the Jedi. The idea that ANYONE can be a hero and make a difference and doesn’t require a magical bloodline is the very core of that larger than life concepts.

            That doesn’t mean you have to like, but you shouldn’t ignore it either.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:29 pm
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            You may not think that I do, but you would be incorrect.

            The notion that Star Wars has always been progressive, is progressive revisionism that seeks to take credit for great things. The problem is, progressivism isn’t capable of creating great things. It merely barnacles itself to already existing things.

            Star Wars was far more even handed than the small mindedness of progressivism. It dealt with politics yes, but on a more epic and timeless scale. The macro story in Star Wars, always dealt with the rise and fall of Empires and Democracies within civilization. That’s not progressivism or conservativism, but a concept much larger than either.

            In addition to the influences you mention, WW 2 was also a great influence as well. But when we watch the films, there really isn’t anything we can point to that specifically points to “ah ha, that’s a Richard Nixon policy!” Contrast this with Rose from TLJ, who treats us to on-the-nose lectures about child labor, slavery, animal abuse, weapons dealin, and the evils of rich people. Putting aside the laguhable nature of these lectures, one can specifically point to a period in time when progressives ignorantly preach about these things.

            As an interesting aside, JFK would probably be a closer fot for the Emperor, since Democratic President JFK got us into the Viet Nam war, while Republican President Nixon got us out.

            The Force is based on the Asian concept of Chi, that extends and flows through all life. But for one to utilize it, one must train the ways of Chi, just as Jedi must train in the ways of the Force. Not everyone can be a hero, because not everyone has the inner motivation to be one, nor the skill or talent to. So the Disney era revisionism of the Force where anyone and everyone can use it is a very bad moral lesson that should be ignored, since that’s not at all reflective of reality. Equal equality equitably equalized for everyone everywhere all of the time, is a small minded and childish concept. It’s the child having a tantrum because Billy down the street gets more porridge than him, ignoring the fact that Billy’s paper route job allows him to buy all the porridge he likes.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:45 pm
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            “The notion that Star Wars has always been progressive, is progressive revisionism that seeks to take credit for great things.”

            Well, I see we are using own separate realities here.

            “The problem is, progressivism isn’t capable of creating great things.”

            This is already laughable, but let’s keep going.

            “The macro story in Star Wars, always dealt with the rise and fall of Empires and Democracies within civilization.”

            No, it didn’t. The OT wasn’t about the rise and fall of an empire or anything to do with a democracy. It was a hero’s journey set against that backdrop.
            No, there isn’t anything about a Nixon policy, it’s about abuse of power and corruption, which is what the Emperor represents.

            Star Wars is made by hippies from California, that’s why the bad guys are fascists. As for Rose’s speech, you forget the part where DJ shows that her side buys weapons from that same dealer. Hardly one-sided.
            Comparing JFK to the Emperor is proof you don’t understand Star Wars. It wasn’t about getting us into Vietnam (That was actually Johnson who really did that). The Nixon influence was about how democracies become empires. They aren’t overthrown, but given away. Nixon’s abuses inspired Lucas in that way.
            Lucas himself has said EVERYONE can touch the Force, but not to the degree they can be a Jedi. For example, when Han is flying his ship and really excelling, he is in tune with the Force.

            The Force is partially based on Qi, but also has many other influences and is not a 1:1.

            You again miss the point. Not just ANYONE can be a hero, but a hero can come from anywhere. You don’t have to have a certain last name or bloodline. The poorest stableboy from the most humble beginnings has the potential to change things. That’s a very American ideal.

            Not everyone, but anyone. There’s a difference there.

            I see no revisionism. It’s just taking the focus away from the Skywalkers. Anyone and everyone can’t use it. I don’t see what’s hard to understand about this.

            Equality is a bad concept? Wow. I don’t think you should tell anyone about bad moral lessons.

            What anti-democratic and Star Wars ideas I am seeing here with a complete and fundamental lack of comprehension of both.

            Not equal in outcome, but equal in opportunity and potential.

            Maybe if Luke uses enough Force, it will trickle down to the poor people. Would that suit your politics better?

          • January 15, 2018 at 2:05 pm
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            but you are going to miss out on the Twilight rehash,
            Our focus groups say the average theater goer has an attention span of about 12 secs, so big and flashy, lights and sounds,
            The carcass is out in the desert, now the scavangers get a go at it

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:31 pm
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            Twilight? Did you not notice how Rey rejected Kylo?

            At least stick to facts when you whine like a mule.

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:38 pm
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            Thanks Rian, but I never saw Twilight, at least we know the new target audience

          • January 15, 2018 at 4:45 pm
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            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

            Then why did you say it would be a Twilight rehash? Clearly you must know all the intricacies of Twilight to say something like that.

            But I only know it’s a lame love story and anyone with a brain can watch TLJ and see there is no love story budding there at the end of movie.

            So maybe JJ should set the target audience for people who:

            1. Can’t even argue properly because they insult someone for making a reference THEY JUST MADE

            and

            2. Kids who can’t follow a movie made for mass audiences.

            I’ll be sure to email him and let him know.

            What a joke you are.

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:15 pm
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            thanks Rian, but I still hate your movie

          • January 15, 2018 at 6:17 pm
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            No, thank you! That was the greatest self-own I’ve seen since Trump last tweeted. Really brightened up my morning.

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:49 pm
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            You are amazing Chris !

          • January 15, 2018 at 10:49 pm
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            You are amazing Chris !

      • January 15, 2018 at 2:36 pm
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        I think the box office for Episode 9 will be worse then TLJ (which will mark the first time as ROTJ and ROTS made more then ESB and AOTC).

        Now don’t get me wrong, any SW movie is a money maker, but I think the buzz of Episode 9 is just lost on a lot of fans because of TLJ. Han and the return of the Franchise was the selling point to Episode 7, the return of Luke was the selling point to Episode 8, what is the selling point that will get fans crazy for Episode 9? Rey vs Finn is a selling point to many in the fanbase, but not on the scale that Han and Luke are. The PT always had the selling point of how Darth Vader came to be so there was buzz for every movie regardless of the disappointment from before.

        Maybe SW needs to move on from the OT generation because they are tired of them whining since the PT days. But that is a Catch 22 because the OT fans are the most loyal and usually see the movies multiple times no matter how much they complain. SW to my nephews and their friend is just another blockbuster that they enjoy and move on from to the next blockbuster, where they aren’t as rabid a fanbase that the OT generation was.

        Let’s put it this way, I saw TFA 4 times, I saw TLJ once, and of course I will see Episode 9. But it will probably be the first SW movie I won’t go Opening Weekend, and will only see it once in the theater. TLJ sort of changed me as a fan, and I don’t begrudge anyone who likes the movie, but it maybe a turning point for a lot of fans like me where SW isn’t a must see anymore.

        • January 15, 2018 at 4:30 pm
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          You say that now, but when the trailer comes out, all those people will come flocking back.

          Nerds are not known for their willpower.

          • January 15, 2018 at 11:47 pm
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            Perhaps.

        • January 15, 2018 at 8:42 pm
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          I will predict, that Episode IX will the first Star Wars film to bomb on opening weekend.

          • January 16, 2018 at 7:58 am
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            Define ‘bomb’ though.

            It’ll be huge, but I think it will be smaller than TLJ.

          • January 16, 2018 at 7:41 pm
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            That’s admittedly difficult to do with Star Wars, which kind of has its own standards. I would say, that it’ll bring in only a quarter or less on it’s opening weekend, when compared to TLJ’s opening weekend.

        • January 15, 2018 at 10:45 pm
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          The OT fans though were the reason that TFA broke every record. TFA had a MULTI-generational appeal — for ages 5 to 75. TLJ betrayed this. Ep 9 will not have such broad appeal — it will be a “hit” based on the SW name alone, but it won’t break the records that it could have with a more WHOLISTIC and INCLUSIVE storyline of Luke and Rey side by side.

  • January 15, 2018 at 8:00 am
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    $98 is a lot of money bruh

    • January 15, 2018 at 8:15 am
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      You win.

  • January 15, 2018 at 1:36 pm
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    China is a weird market. I’m not saying this because they seem to dislike Star Wars as a whole but what they do like and what is popular seems totally different to what North Americans like. It seems difficult to make a movie that both NA and Chinese audiences would like. It happens but it seems rare. There are exceptions of course but it seems hard to pin down.

    • January 16, 2018 at 7:56 am
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      It’s almost like China and North America are different cultures 🙂

      But I agree with you – I’m indifferent to a lot of what comes out of China, so I’m not surprised their audiences are the same.

  • January 15, 2018 at 2:12 pm
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    Remember the good old days when Disney had that wonderful layout of all the films, Titles, release dates, even hinting at a long term plan?

    All gone now, whats after ep9?
    Whats after Solo?
    We probably wont get any news until after the “restructuring” at Lucasfilm, could the trailer delay signal something bigger behind the scenes?

    I urge all not to abandon all hope on this wonderful franchise, No one cares whether you like something, thats $$ in the pocket, but they do care if you dont.

      • January 15, 2018 at 3:24 pm
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        Love that, wondering why it wasnt in the movie.

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:01 pm
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        I love the little creatures, but I’d be dishonest if I didn’t admit that this gives me a perverse sense of pleasure.

    • January 15, 2018 at 3:30 pm
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      I like SW too much to abandon it, i just wont spend much $$ until they release something i care about. Currently am waiting on the return of Super Articulated 3.75″ figures of Aphra, R1 entirely, Rebels. Still purchasing any ship coming from FantasyFlight Games for X-wing miniature (except post E6 stuff), also will buy every expansion from SW LCG as there is much EU in there – i dont play it, but want to keep all cards as collection.
      Also returning to SW TOR and to play story for all classes while the servers are on.
      Will buy at least 1 Solo Lego set, maybe more (due to usable OT minifigs).

      Actually from certain point of view its good that post E6 stuff is bad for me – my wallet does not suffer that much, i have time to read SW books i already have etc.

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:53 pm
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        Don’t act like you’re above all post E6 canon because you didn’t like TLJ. You liked at least some of it but now you just want attention and so you whine at the top of your lungs.

        • January 15, 2018 at 6:50 pm
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          Didnt liked the direction it went with E7 (FO instead of Imperial remnants like in old EU). Didnt liked the Battlefront 2 story – stupid operation cinder – instead of regrouping loyal imperial worlds, burning them WTF and how can the FO accumulate so much resources when they actually burned a lot of them.

          E8 was the last nail in the coffin for me. Didnt read the Thrawn trilogy replacement (i call so the books filling the era between E6 and E7) as i was first waiting on the movies to introduce me to the new era.

          But now, i simply dont care as movies are bad to me, and everything between is just a filler and poor excuse to justify actions in the movies like Phasma comix. As with dumb TLJ we can see she has blaster proof armor so why the hell is she afraid of a blaster in E7 …
          Ill better go revisit the old EU more and more as it fits my needs more than the poor stories after E6.

          I just hope they dont completely ruin the OT era with new films / tv series / comix.
          R1 is great addition to OT, Rebels are not so bat although more childish than CW, but i still like the Rebels crew. Some of the comix are not so bad, but lately as how they have treated Scare squad …. im not sure there. I was happy with Aphra related arcs.

    • January 15, 2018 at 3:53 pm
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      If Solo is well received it could be the start of its own trilogy. A Kenobi film is still a possibility as well for the anthology films.

      Don’t forget RJ new trilogy as well.

      • January 15, 2018 at 4:08 pm
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        “Don’t forget RJ new trilogy as well.”

        That’s precisely what he wants to do. Forget that it’s happening.

      • January 16, 2018 at 7:55 am
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        I’m not sure about Solo being a trilogy. I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends with Han and Chewie walking into the Cantina on Tatooine for a ‘rest’, and show a glimpse of Luke and Obi-Wan in the background.

        • January 16, 2018 at 9:19 am
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          I hope not, the actor is far to young to play Han at that age and it would be incredibly painful to watch. Just because R1 ends so close to ANH doesn’t mean the next anthology film does as well.

    • January 15, 2018 at 4:29 pm
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      No? I don’t recall those days at all.

      just because they haven’t told us doesn’t mean they don’t know.

    • January 15, 2018 at 4:29 pm
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      No? I don’t recall those days at all.

      just because they haven’t told us doesn’t mean they don’t know.

    • January 15, 2018 at 10:11 pm
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      It’s pretty much a complete sh*tshow over at Lucasfilm these days. The finger-pointing over TLJ has begun, plans are being scrapped and then UN-scrapped day by day, suddenly all the fanfare about “Rian’s own Trilogy” has evaporated. Going to be an interesting year 🙂

      • January 16, 2018 at 5:47 am
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        agreed

    • January 15, 2018 at 11:45 pm
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      “All gone now, whats after ep9?
      Whats after Solo?”

      Rian Johnsons Alien Nipple Milk Trilogy.

  • January 15, 2018 at 4:51 pm
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    The Last Jedi is an awesome film. One of people’s main complaints was that Luke wasn’t acting like Luke in the original trilogy. This is the dumbest and most illegitimate claim I have ever heard. Luke is different because 30 YEARS HAVE PASSED. Luke would naturally have changed and on top of that tragic events that he blames on himself have occurred since Return of the Jedi. When will people start to understand this.

    • January 15, 2018 at 6:26 pm
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      I love how Luke was handled. To me, what many people aren’t saying is that for all these years, we were supposed to believe that Luke was the most badass Jedi ever – why? We never saw anything that would lead us to believe that he was the greatest of all the Jedi – now, in TLJ, we get proof. I LOVE that.

      I don’t know. Maybe I’m just a honk for the movie because I have enjoyed it more and more with each successive viewing. I am constantly finding new things in it, and new points of view. I like my Star Wars to be original and take the story in new directions, and this certainly does that.

      • January 15, 2018 at 11:12 pm
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        Ummmm, only that he defeated an entire Death Star and was the only Jedi in the Universe that could defeat and destroy Darth Vader. Luke WAS the greatest of all Jedi.

        • January 15, 2018 at 11:22 pm
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          He used the Force to shoot a torpedo into the shaft.

          Obi Wan Kenobi defeated Anakin/Vader as well. Luke was also the ONLY other Jedi in the galaxy at the time.

          So try again.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:27 am
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            Vader was much stronger in the Dark Side by the time Luke took him on. Kenobi beat mini-Vader, yes, but years under Palpatine made Vader into the most powerful Dark Side user the Galaxy had ever seen.

            Also, in SW Rebels, Kenobi refers to Luke as “The Chosen One” as obviously the Anakin prophecy didn’t work out so well LOL

          • January 16, 2018 at 10:22 am
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            I see no evidence of Vader becoming stronger. The whole point is that he was duped. He was just a shell of a man in a machine. It was not Vader’s strength that allowed him to dump Palpatine down the shaft but more Palpatine’s weakness and over-confidence – like Snoke in fact. It is Ultimately it is Anakin that throws him down the shaft. So if you take the entire OT I do not see evidence of Vader ever becoming particularly stronger than Palpatine or Dooku. He is terrifying because he has a power to terrorize people who do not have that skill, and he can do so without reproach.

          • January 16, 2018 at 6:38 pm
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            No. No it didn’t. Palpatine was stuck with a broken apprentice after RotS, not the prize he was after in turning Anakin. He made the most of the situation, but the SECOND he had the opportunity, he attempted to replace those damaged goods with Anakin’s son.

        • January 16, 2018 at 1:28 am
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          He also got his ass handed to him on Cloud City hanging on for his life on an antenna with one arm, he had to have his sister come and save him. He got there because he ignored Yoda and rushed to face Vader unprepared both physically and emotionally. Then his convoluted plan to save Han from Jabba’s palace nearly got everyone killed. Luke has failed just as much as he succeeded. This myth of his perfection is completely bogus.

          • January 16, 2018 at 1:44 am
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            And it costed an arm to him and it was a though lesson to learn, yet we see our Mary Ray Sue to rush after Kylo and Snook just after a quick Jedi lesson and it costs her just a bounce on her head.

          • January 16, 2018 at 10:12 am
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            If they had chopped off a hand, leg, or head or burnt her alive you would all be claiming it was derivative and copy paste. She is tortured by Snoke in her mind. She would have then been stabbed by Kylo if he wasn’t soft on her and gagging for power.

            Why a distinction between mental and physical abuse?

          • January 16, 2018 at 6:33 pm
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            Because Rey suffers no setback, no actual loss, no change in her flawless character because of that momentary inconvenience. Luke does. He fails to save his friends, he fails to avenge his father, he finds out he’s not the hot shit he thought he was, and he learns that his mentor, his surrogate father figure, lied to him. It breaks him, and forces him to finish growing up. While she superficially experiences some of that, it has absolutely no effect on Rey’s psyche – TLJ might as well not have happened as far as her character development goes.

          • January 17, 2018 at 3:38 am
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            I can agree to an extent but I think she also experiences failure. Her failure to listen to Luke leads her to that situation in which she ultimately betrays him and reveals his location (albeit under duress). She destroys the only light sabre available to her, and has no idea how to make a new one. She discovers somehow that Ben solo may not entirely be the monster she imagined – and at least momentarily that they could even be allies. She did almost die.

            What I do not buy into in the story is the reason why – after so little time with Luke, she decides she must attack him, leave him, go to the guy she saw betray and murder his own father in cold blood. I understand Luke’s decision in ESB. But Rey’s decision makes very little sense. There is no need for any urgency to go to Kylo. I mean she finds the most critical guy in the galaxy, he’s old and jaded, but personally I would have a bit more patience and perseverance rather than just running off after a few days. I mean she does not know the urgency of the resistance, and she is not leaving for that.

            I actually like the movie but this could really be its biggest flaw for me. It comes from the school of the PT where characters are forced through a story to reach a preplanned destination and little care taken about the journey – when in fact the journey is the critical bit. At some point I think movie makers and story writers became too methodical in setting up the mcguffin that sets the characters off on their journey to a destination. Ryan’s movie design was to isolate the characters and put the character’s through some trial that they fail and ultimately learn from. From my perspective this mission overwhelmed the more sensible storylines that could have happened. When Game of Thrones is shocking or surprising it does not sacrifice sensible story.

          • January 17, 2018 at 5:54 pm
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            I saw a video the other day, the guy said the same, we all are talking about Luke’s ‘arc’ and the pointless Canto Bight, but nobody has noticed that Rey, the star of this trilogy, had absolutely no change. He said that Rey should’ve joined Kylo at the end, and I agree.

          • January 17, 2018 at 1:31 am
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            Ummm……she was seconds away from getting far worse than a lost limb. She was about to have her head cut off for going to Snoke. She learned plenty from that encounter, even if she left with her body intact.

          • January 16, 2018 at 2:59 am
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            Sorry he can’t be a perfect Mary Sue like Rey right? Luke had trials and tribulations which he learned immensely from – DUH – but his soulful intentions are why we all love him so much, and always will.

          • January 17, 2018 at 1:27 am
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            AND….He can’t still learn form his mistakes at age 65? You think he should’ve just brushed off the failure of his academy and his nephew as if it were nothing? Where is the realism in that?

          • January 17, 2018 at 5:52 pm
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            Well, this is exactly the point, how can Rian and co. think that a man that learned so much in 3 years, is a douche at 60. Even i yo are the most stupid or people, life itself teaches a lot, so by 65, you have to be wiser than at 20 something, so what can we believe happened to Luke in 30+ years to leave him like that. Oh, I guess there will be a book or a Rian Johnson interview for that…

          • January 17, 2018 at 11:00 pm
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            What everyone wanted was simple: Rey arrives to Luke. Luke is in a bit of depression b/c of the loss of his Academy. Luke then sees NEW inspiration and Hope in Rey. Luke TRAINS Rey and they embark TOGETHER to save the Resistance. That simple thread would have had Fans literally jumping for joy in the theater. It’s very simple to please SW fans. Getting “bold” like Rian Johnson and vandalizing characters will never work and has put irrevocable-cracks in the foundation of a Brand that was MUCH stronger 2 years ago.

          • January 18, 2018 at 11:35 pm
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            Annnnd you just described the safest, most predictable fan-servicey story possible. Boring and lame.

          • January 16, 2018 at 5:45 am
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            what universe do you live in? Luke IS the hero!

          • January 17, 2018 at 1:24 am
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            He was HEROIC. He was successful. And he also failed at times. He was never a perfect omnipotent messiah, the way that some people like to pretend that he was.

          • January 17, 2018 at 4:50 am
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            He WAS better than the way he was portrayed in TLJ

          • January 18, 2018 at 11:52 pm
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            People change through time and tragedy. That’s life.

          • January 19, 2018 at 1:11 am
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            People, yes….He was a Jedi Master not just a normal person and had high spiritual guidance. This isn’t Luke Skywalker…thsts the whole problem.

            Interesting, I jyst listen to an audio interview with Rian, and he said he never would have had Luke in this place as it wasn’t the Luke he grew up with. But he had to find a reason since he was there….so maybe Rian felt he was painted in a corner.

      • January 16, 2018 at 12:55 am
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        “I’m just a honk for the movie because I have enjoyed it more and more with each successive viewing”
        Revatched some scenes here and there and i in contrary find the movie even more stupid.
        I just realized how totally stupid the Admiral Purple Hair maneuver is:
        – note how far she was from the big SSD when she entered hyperspace -> she was far away from it
        – also not only she took out the big one, she splited also several other stardestroyers that were somewhere around the big one (also pretty far away)

        I did not noticed that at the cinema viewing. So now u can even take the ENTIRE FLEET with such maneuver with 1 big empty ship !

        I have to find some hyperspeed entrance scenes where they went through something. In R1 the Rebel Transport did not managed to ignite hyperdrive before crushing to ISD Devastator.

        • January 16, 2018 at 9:41 am
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          Well they are about to destroy the last surviving bits of the rebellion/resistance. It is a suicidal act and also murderous act made in extreme desperation. Even if you find a scene with such a trajectory, you would have to find a state of desperation and a person with the mindset willing to make a sacrifice.

          The closest act to this is the A-wing pilot who takes out the star destroyer in ROTJ. Nobody complained about that. So ship to ship suicide is ok but not when light speed is used and the ship scale is bigger…it seems.

          Just another example of nitpicking selective hate to put in the junk pile.

          • January 16, 2018 at 12:11 pm
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            Every rebel is in that position. Every rebel commander would use such tactic to sacrifice one big ship with no/minimal crew to take out an entire imperial fleet.
            That maneuver was simply impossible in the universe , coz when it would be possible it would be heavily used.
            Again, that A-wing did not took the SSD down and the pilot was already almost dead ho he just pointed it at the bridge to take some imps with him.
            As SSD was already without shields for the bridge, it destroyed it and making Executor uncontrolable for a moemnt. Unfortunately it was too close to DS2. If he wanst, the could stabilize it and it could survive.

            So YES sublight crashes are OK and were used multiple times – even Sato pulled that trick.

            I would be fine when the scene was like:
            Ackbar stays on the bridge, turns the ship around, all energy to forward shields and engines.
            FO desperately firing all guns on the ship. Ship is taking many hits and slowly starts to fall apart, but its already too close to FO SSD.
            SSD tries to do evasive maneuver, but dying Ackbar on the bridge manages to correct the course as his last heroic act.
            Half fallen appart Radus smashes into FO SSD.

            SAME RESULT.
            Heoric death to an important character who will do more than just turn 180 and pull a lever, who will actually have to put a damn good fight before successfully smashing FO SSD instead of doing autopilot/droid job.
            Instead of stupid artistic silence a great John Williams music for the heroic moment.
            No breaking of the SW universe laws.

          • January 17, 2018 at 1:04 am
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            I thought the whole point is that she did not draw unnecessary attention to her suicidal intention until it was too late.

            I am fine with Akbar’s unremarkable death. Even great and notable people can die simply in war.

      • January 16, 2018 at 5:43 am
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        Lucas had written that Luke was the most powerful Jedi of all time!

        • January 18, 2018 at 6:31 pm
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          And TLJ shows us exactly this.

          • January 18, 2018 at 6:34 pm
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            nope…weak minded is what we get in TLJ.

    • January 15, 2018 at 6:40 pm
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      Totally – he was under a lot of stress not to have a student fall to the dark side, more so when it was his nephew. He’s suffering from depression and is no way a coward as some people see him portrayed.

    • January 15, 2018 at 8:49 pm
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      Notably, Luke also does not act in ST or OT like he did in the PT.

    • January 16, 2018 at 12:25 am
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      “Luke is different because 30 YEARS HAVE PASSED”
      30 Years passed only from the Endor Victory. Then he was happy and started his “Jedi Academy 2.0”. The time which is from Kylo killing students till TLJ is like what ? 5 Yers ?
      So u cant operate with those 30years

      • January 16, 2018 at 1:24 am
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        It doesn’t matter. When these people have been carrying one interpretation of a character for 30 years, the audacity that he would change, especially after tragic circumstances, like any normal human being would, is completely unacceptable to them.

        • January 16, 2018 at 2:12 am
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          Yep; Luke should be a 55 year old man behaving exactly like a 19 year old, otherwise he’s not believable, because all 55 year olds behave like adolescent hotshots.

          • January 18, 2018 at 2:40 pm
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            all the one I know

        • January 16, 2018 at 5:42 am
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          he’s not a normal person…..

          • January 17, 2018 at 1:32 am
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            He’s not a superhero, either.

          • January 17, 2018 at 4:49 am
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            pretty close. This is Star Wars about a master of a mystical force…….not about your best friends dad, having emotional issues.

          • January 18, 2018 at 11:53 pm
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            Nope. He was a regular guy who tapped into the force and was able to accomplish great things, but it never made him immune from failure.

          • January 19, 2018 at 1:06 am
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            Whom became a MASTER of it, whom had mythical beings that could speak to him after becoming one with the force….any of this sound “normal?”
            Not immune from failure, but he would not have made that choice to begin with unless you ignore everything that came before.

        • January 17, 2018 at 5:59 pm
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          We have had an interpretation of those 30 years because that was what we had, the EU. So Disney wipes the EU, OK, now, how the hell can we know what Luke’s gone through in those 30 years to make him an old bitter hermit? This is the problem with the movie and the new saga, they wiped the slate clean, but failed to replace it with their version, and now we are supposed to accept this hyperspace-jump in character out of the blue, or because it is ‘bold and new’? This movie is part of a saga, a 9 movie franchise and sorry, but it has to make sense.

      • January 18, 2018 at 6:29 pm
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        Step away from your computer. Events can happen, in a very short amount of time, that can profoundly and irrevocably change a person.
        One day you will know this.

    • January 18, 2018 at 7:45 pm
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      In what universe is this a good movie?? did you actually watch it?? the plot is insane. No back story, no character developments, NOTHINg.

    • January 18, 2018 at 7:45 pm
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      In what universe is this a good movie?? did you actually watch it?? the plot is insane. No back story, no character developments, NOTHINg.

    • January 18, 2018 at 9:04 pm
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      May be dumb to you, but even Mark Hamill had the same reaction as a SIGNIFICANT % of fans. He may be toeing the company line at this point, but those of us not on Disney’s payroll don’t have to like the pile of crap Rian Johnson gave us.

  • January 15, 2018 at 9:18 pm
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    To crack China with a Star Wars movie I suspect you need to engage some Chinese heavy weights in the story making and film making process. I honestly think that the slight eastern mysticism of star wars can come across as cheesey to a genuinely informed audience. If you also consider the other popular western movies in China – to me at least – they have some more extreme facets to appeal. Star Wars on the other hand is luke warm in comparison and intended to appeal to a broad western family base.
    My own observation of East Asia having lived there for many years is that their (very broad i know) movies are often pulling on extremes. I mean they have some great movies. They do violence well, and also emotion very well. When you are absorbed in that environment it all looks normal, but when I extracted myself from that and watch the same movies now they can look extreme and corny. My better half commented that one Japanese movie I made her suffer through was also quite strongly nationalistic, and I have seen this with Korean movies too.
    So the risk of cracking China in my opinion is that you will do so at the expense of the Western fan base.
    Japan I suspect is different in terms of star wars success because there exists more historic fan base and longer history of success of diverse types of western movies anyway.
    I think if we were to be honest Star Wars also has some western nationalistic vibe and western symbolism/subliminal message in addition to the eastern mysticism.

    • January 15, 2018 at 10:56 pm
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      TLJ did pretty badly in China, Final worldwide gross will be around US$ 1.3 billion, which is about 40 % lower than TFA. Disappointing !

      • January 15, 2018 at 10:57 pm
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        WOWZA! Very poor showing for Rian !

  • January 16, 2018 at 5:54 am
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    I really hate TLJ ended up being this divisive and such a disappointing film for me. I had such high hopes for it.

    I’ve officially moved to the camp of 6 saga films and including Rogue One as “canon”……While the sequels may carry the name of Star Wars, they lack the heart , story and general cohesiveness to be part of the saga.

    • January 17, 2018 at 11:05 am
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      There are real sequels: the novels by Timothy Zahn. The Disney trilogy can go shrivel up and die.

  • January 16, 2018 at 10:35 am
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    I still honestly sympathise with those genuinely disappointed with this movie. We all want something great from this saga, right?

    Those on BOTH sides that call TLJ “decisive” rather than “divisive” do give me a little amusement though. Merely parrots? Do they know what they are saying?

    Not a grammar freak but I would like to grasp some of the decisive moments of TLJ.

    • January 16, 2018 at 4:41 pm
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      How about derisive.

      • January 17, 2018 at 12:58 am
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        Well I would never pick on a single person or honest mistake but if you go to RT, it is notable that there are a whole flock of people getting it wrong. For me it just comes across as parroting other reviews.

  • January 16, 2018 at 3:33 pm
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    The contrasting reactions of people in China and the US show why the US is doomed and why China will take the US’s place as the preeminent superpower. Chinese people see stupid, joyless fantasy/Sci Fi movie and thereafter the movie bombs. US people see dumb, insulting fantasy/Sci Fi movie and either love it or if they hated it, go to see it multiple more times just to make sure they really hated it.

  • January 16, 2018 at 3:33 pm
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    The contrasting reactions of people in China and the US show why the US is doomed and why China will take the US’s place as the preeminent superpower. Chinese people see stupid, joyless fantasy/Sci Fi movie and thereafter the movie bombs. US people see dumb, insulting fantasy/Sci Fi movie and either love it or if they hated it, go to see it multiple more times just to make sure they really hated it.

    • January 16, 2018 at 4:16 pm
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      Not my case, i saw it once in cinema. Any additional viewing only on internet. Not going to pay more for this stupid movie. Additional viewings are used just to confirm what stupidity they have put in, like the Purple Hair Woman maneuver – i did not realized that it took down almost the entire fleet when i watched it in cinema.

      But agree that its stupid to go and see it multiple times when someone does not enjoy it.
      I saw TFA 3 times, still dont like it, but i was at least able to enjoy some parts of it (Falcon flight for example)

      • January 16, 2018 at 4:23 pm
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        Good for you Ondrej, the greatest threat to America comes from within, that fifth column who are fattening up and dumbing down a once great people.

        • January 16, 2018 at 5:20 pm
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          This is a weird conversation for a Star Wars website.

      • January 17, 2018 at 1:30 pm
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        Funny you say that, my favorite parts were chewie rescuing Finn and Rey, and the flight to the island at the end, the visuals and the sound design were perfect

  • January 18, 2018 at 7:42 pm
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    This movie is an atrocity.

  • January 18, 2018 at 9:01 pm
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    Not “good news” to me. This movie ruined Star Wars for me. Won’t see another one produced by Disney.

    • January 19, 2018 at 1:25 am
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      The movie has certainly DAMAGED my faith in the new Star Wars beyond repair. TLJ was disrespectful to both franchise-characters and fans in such a harsh way, I will never forgive it.

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