The Last Jedi Editor Bob Ducsay Discusses Handling of Admiral Ackbar’s Death

The Resistance endured massive losses as the war over the galaxy raged on in The Last Jedi, and one of the casualties was long time rebel and Rebellion/Resistance leader Admiral Gial Ackbar. Editor Bob Ducsay discussed the Admiral’s demise and how it was implemented.

 

 

In a scene engulfed by the realization of the magnitude of General Leia Organa’s Force powers, Admiral Ackbar was killed when Kylo Ren’s squadron fired upon the bridge of the command ship, killing everyone except for Leia. Ackbar’s death was a little lost in the chaos that ensued, and only when it was officially announced to the Resistance by Commander Larma D’Acy do we realize Ackbar was confirmed killed in the blast.

 

 

Although Ackbar never really had much screen time in the films, he became a bit of a fan favorite in the years since Return of the Jedi, vaulted by his ever popular line “It’s a trap!” which has become an oft-used MEME by Star Wars fans everywhere (although in my opinion Leia deserves more credit for that line, using it twice to warn Luke on Cloud City in The Empire Strikes Back).

 

The Last Jedi‘s editor Bob Ducsay talked with Huffington Post about the design and execution of that scene, and wonders if it may have been a bit too perfunctory.

“That was how it was designed. It’s interesting that you mentioned it, because I watched the film last night and I thought, hmmm, maybe that’s too incidental. It’s a very funny thing about that because what happens … I don’t typically watch movies that I work on much afterwards, because you’re so familiar with it. But this movie I’ve seen now a couple times with an audience. And it occurred to me last night that what does happen when I watch movies … is I generally find things that are like, hmmm, I wonder if I should do that differently. Which is some really horrible form of personal criticism because there’s really nothing to be done.”

 

 

Although it may seems as though Ducsay is having retrospective reservations, he goes on to say that the scene was executed with that plan from the very beginning, so it appears Rian Johnson had pretty set convictions on what he wanted out of that moment.

“That’s how it was designed. That’s how it was intended. But it is slightly incidental, isn’t it?”

 

What some people may not know is that the voice of Admiral Ackbar (and Bib Fortuna), from Return of the Jedi through The Last Jedi, Erik Bauersfeld, passed away months into filming The Last Jedi at the age of 93. So while some may be upset the Admiral is gone, it seems fitting he be honored and rest with the man who gave him his voice.

 

Erik Bauersfeld 1922 – 2016

 

In the non-canonical legends story The Unifying Force, Ackbar was given a memorial service after passing from old age, but we can argue that Ackbar going out while still fighting the good fight pays much more respect to the character than him slumping over in a rocking chair. Could they have put more focus on his death? Sure. But if we’re going to split hairs, Han Solo didn’t get a funeral either.

 

We could only imagine what Han’s reaction would be if he found out Ackbar got a funeral but he didn’t, it’d probably look something like this:

 

 

Admiral Ackbar’s legacy has gotten quite the boost throughout the 2000s, with his inclusion in The Clone Wars series and other non-film canon media. The character has come a long way from being known for this:

 

 

The Last Jedi was all about the movement, not the individual. The rebellion and The Resistance were never about individuals, but the unified effort. Besides, dedicating a scene to memorialize Admiral Ackbar would have stopped the movie in its tracks. Admiral Ackbar went out like the brave leader we knew from the battle of Endor, defiantly staring in the face of evil, standing between The First Order and what remained of the New Republic hoping to preserve peace and freedom to the galaxy.

 

Like Mon Mothma, Wedge Antilles, and other rebel fighters from the original trilogy, Lucasfilm could have left Ackbar in the past, but we were able to see him in two more movies, and regardless of how brief it was, it was a pleasure seeing him still in the mix and going out fighting.

 

We will remember you Admiral, you are more than just a MEME to us, and as we say goodbye may we look back on your long life and say “It’s a wrap!”

 

ERRATUM: Facebook user Mike Jornlin pointed out my error that Bauersfeld did not voice Ackbar at all in The Last Jedi, and was replaced by Tom Kane who has previously voiced Ackbar in other media. Thank you Mike.

 

SOURCE: Huffington Post

 

 

You can find me on Twitter @JohnnyHoey and on our podcast The Resistance Broadcast @RBatSWNN!

 

“For my ally is The Force, and a powerful ally it is.”

 

 

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John Hoey is the Lead Editor and Senior Writer for Star Wars News Net and the host of The Resistance Broadcast podcast

"For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is."

John Hoey

John Hoey is the Lead Editor and Senior Writer for Star Wars News Net and the host of The Resistance Broadcast podcast"For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is."

234 thoughts on “The Last Jedi Editor Bob Ducsay Discusses Handling of Admiral Ackbar’s Death

  • January 11, 2018 at 6:38 pm
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    Like every other choice that RJ made in this movie, the loss of “beloved” Ackbar without any ceremony was the interesting choice. The easy choice would have been the fan service of noting and lingering on the loss. In the moment, I thought that was the end of Leia too. And I would have been alright with that. And mentioning his loss a throw away line is OK too. They didn’t really have time to grieve. The Resistance had to figure out how to stay alive.

    This is war. Heroes don’t always get heroic deaths. Sometimes a scrub gets you with a lucky shot.

    • January 11, 2018 at 6:49 pm
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      I completely agree. Not all heroes get or deserve an heroic send off. Sometimes, as in real life, you go out like a punk. I liked the fact it took a moment to register that Ackbar was killed.

    • January 11, 2018 at 7:04 pm
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      Nah, this is not war, this is a movie (sort of). If I wanted to see real life war, I’d watch a documentary, or the news.

      • January 12, 2018 at 11:34 am
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        Actually, for a franchise called ‘Star Wars’, it is a bit ironic that the closest to we get to actual warfare is ‘Rogue One’ and ‘The Clone Wars’.

        Just food for thought.

        • January 12, 2018 at 6:30 pm
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          You got a point, but of course movies have become more realistic and gory as the years go by, (I love 50’s movies, when somebody gets shot, and they just put their hand in they body, you never see any gore) Maybe people would expect this franchise to be more like Tarantino, too. I know I wouldn’t like that.

          • January 12, 2018 at 7:33 pm
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            Tarantino is definitely a direction I would not want Star Wars to take.

    • January 11, 2018 at 7:14 pm
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      I was fine with it.
      Same as with you I thought they had found a quick way to kill Leia off and it came as a big shock at the time. I literally had my hand of my mouth which is quite comical!

    • January 11, 2018 at 8:25 pm
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      I am not one who was upset or bothered when I realized Ackbar was so easily killed off, nor am I one of the people who hates The Last Jedi. I don’t love it per say, but I honestly don’t know yet how I feel for certain. That being said, my problem with Ackbar’s death is I totally missed that he was killed. I have only seen the movie once and somehow missed the follow-up moment where someone explained that he died. To me that is a flaw in how the scene was shot and edited. And it says something when the editor themselves thinks they could have done better.

      I am not suggesting his death should have been heroic, but it should have at least been shot and edited in a way that the audience realized all these major leaders were there and died, without someone needing to explain it after the fact. When things that occur on screen aren’t clear and need explained later, for me that tends to show that it wasn’t done quite as well as it could have been.

      • January 12, 2018 at 4:24 am
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        Yeah, that’s it exactly. Make it a heroes death, don’t make it a heroes death, whichever you feel will work best. Either way though, that directing and editing decision needs to be clear on film, and it just wasn’t here. He’s not really established as being on the bridge prior to the explosion, and there’s virtually no attempt to show that he died in the explosion – it’s just….vague and unfocussed.

        • January 12, 2018 at 5:33 am
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          Really? I caught that there was a Mon Cal on the bridge. Leia wasn’t alone so there were other casualties including that Mon Cal. It was never stated to be Ackbar, but who cares. He’s an incidental character

  • January 11, 2018 at 7:12 pm
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    They’re completely disregarding the most important question — how the hell does he get his fat head through such a small shirt collar?

  • January 11, 2018 at 7:20 pm
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    What! Ackbar death was perfect. That’s is if the goal was to crap all over the face of OT and make newer more shiny and wiser versions. I mean he was only the staple in every rebel victory before and after the OT. But since those victories were undone by some chump named Snoke, why not. Ackbar who. I bet he had a son out of wedlock and will now be a firstorder member.

    Bring on the new darker scared by bad parenting and a dubious uncle Ackbar.

    • January 11, 2018 at 7:29 pm
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      Agreed with everything you wrote up to. “What! Ackbar death was perfect.”

    • January 11, 2018 at 8:26 pm
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      “undone”

      you don’t know much about history, do you?

      • January 12, 2018 at 12:03 am
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        Lord, this guy’s a bonehead.

    • January 11, 2018 at 8:58 pm
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      I suppose this is the disconnect I see over this movie and its treatment of the lore and “classic characters”.

      (Stay with me, I will bring this back on topic)

      I’ve only ever considered the films to be canon, and even then in my headcanon I ignore the prequels whenever I can. I remember when Heir To The Empire came out, I thought it was a pretty cool story, but I didn’t need to perform mental gymnastics to make it fit. The “Tales from…” series were fun, but nothing more. I never read NJO or Rogue Squadron. The Lucasarts games (Dark Forces, KOTR, Tie Figher, X-Wing etc) were fun diversions, but they never needed to consistently fit into, or be acknowledged by, the larger story. I even take TCW and Rebels with a grain of salt.

      So to me, Ackbar wasn’t “a staple in every rebel victory before and after the OT”. He was the commander of the rebel fleet at one battle. I had no more affection for or attachment to him than for General Rieekan or General Nadine or General Veers. So I really didn’t need to see his character especially respected. In that light, his end was appropriate and appropriately handled. I honestly wouldn’t have brought him or Nien Numb back in TFA at all anyways. Random Mon Calamari or Sullustans would have been fine.

      I won’t get into how it’s actually interesting and kind of realistic that a fragment of the Empire rose up and became a threat 30 years ABOE, rather than taking it as crapping on the legacy of the end of that film.

      I respect your commitment to secondary characters, though.

    • January 11, 2018 at 9:59 pm
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      Be real, his was just a bit part, and an undeveloped side character at best.

    • January 11, 2018 at 9:59 pm
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      Be real, his was just a bit part, and an undeveloped side character at best.

    • January 12, 2018 at 10:46 am
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      “… he was only the staple in every rebel victory before and after the OT.”

      You do realise he first appeared in RotJ with two minutes of screen-time at most, right?

  • January 11, 2018 at 7:40 pm
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    At least, thanks to Denis Lawson’s refusal to come back, Wedge can live on until the inevitable book/comic that puts him in the Hosnian System. Disney really seems to hate the OT but is quite happy to steal imagery and ideas to fuel their vapid sequels. ‘Standing on the shoulders of giants’

    • January 11, 2018 at 8:33 pm
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      I’m absolutely convinced Lor San Tekka, including the death at Kylo’s hand, was supposed to be Wedge, but that got changed when Denis Lawson was unavailable.

      As far as hating the OT, I really don’t see that at all. I just see a desire to go in a new direction. Which is very very good. I’d have actually like to see them go even farther. (way off topic for this thread)

    • January 11, 2018 at 9:38 pm
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      Re: “Disney really seems to hate the OT but is quite happy to steal imagery and ideas”

      Ummm… because:
      “{stealing from} is the sincerest form of hatred” ?!
      Yeah….right.

    • January 11, 2018 at 9:38 pm
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      Re: “Disney really seems to hate the OT but is quite happy to steal imagery and ideas”

      Ummm… because:
      “{stealing from} is the sincerest form of hatred” ?!
      Yeah….right.

    • January 11, 2018 at 10:08 pm
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      “Disney really seems to hate the OT”

      This is ridiculous. Disney has gone to extraordinary measures to pay homage to the OT in telling these new stories and I think that I has hamstrung their writing. We didn’t need another trilogy with the same characters and situations.

      • January 12, 2018 at 10:35 am
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        And, despite the sequels, much of Lucasfilm’s recent output has been related to the OT anyway: ‘Rogue One’, ‘Solo’, ‘Rebels’, most of the comics, a good chunk of the novels …

    • January 11, 2018 at 10:11 pm
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      “but is quite happy to steal imagery and ideas to fuel their vapid sequels”

      And if Disney didn’t spend so much effort to capture the look, feel and story threads of the OT, you would be screaming THIS ISN’T STAR WARS

    • January 11, 2018 at 10:21 pm
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      “Disney really seems to hate the OT… ”

      Mince!

      Han died to save his son – mirrors Anakin dying in ROTJ to save Luke’.
      Luke’s death mirrors Obi-wan’s in A new Hope.

      Akbar was just a bit character. I’m sure there’s a prequel character who fared similar.

      • January 12, 2018 at 2:38 am
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        Please, I´m not trolling, I’d really like to know how Han’s death saved Kylo? I haven’t read any of the books or such and he seemed even meaner in 8?

        • January 12, 2018 at 8:00 am
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          It never saved Kylo. The outcome didn’t end the same, but the father making the sacrifice for the son is the same.

          How was he meaner in 8? In which ways?

          • January 12, 2018 at 6:22 pm
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            I’m lost, isn’t Kylo Han’s son? I know, Ben, like Anakin and Vader, but they are the same for practical purposes, right? Not that he is meaner per se, but I did not sense that he is closest to the light side than the dark after TLJ. in fact he was given the chance to make a choice at the end, and he chose the dark side, (killing his master, taking his place, attacking hologram Luke) I guess we’ll have to wait until 9, but for instance, I think that the disappearing dice in his hand may symbolize that all he had from being a Solo has now vanished, so maybe Han just died to opt Harrison Ford out, after all.

    • January 11, 2018 at 11:04 pm
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      I don’t think Disney hates the OT. They just hate the men of the OT.

  • January 11, 2018 at 7:44 pm
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    The first time I saw Pulp Fiction I thought, “Wait a minute. Really? Vincent Vega just got killed! Just like that?”

  • January 11, 2018 at 8:16 pm
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    Just wish he’d started to say “it’s a trap” as he got blown out into space. For old times sake.

    • January 12, 2018 at 12:54 am
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      The fans would have liked that. Which means Rian Johnson & Kathy Kennedy would not allow it. It seems to me that every obvious writing and creative decision that fans would have loved was ignored. Can’t be a coincidence.

      • January 12, 2018 at 2:34 am
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        She already said, about two or three years ago, that she owes fans nothing, so there you go.

  • January 11, 2018 at 8:31 pm
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    I only wish that Ackbar had not been so in the background when the explosion happened, because it was hard to see. I agree that the focus of the scene had to be on Leia, but if Ackbar had been standing a bit closer to Leia, I think that would have worked better for his character.

  • January 11, 2018 at 8:51 pm
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    I don’t know how old Mon Calamari’s typically get, but it was time to put Ackbar to rest. The guy had been fighting since the start of the clone wars!

    (Although I don’t mind Chewie still hanging in there! haha)

    • January 11, 2018 at 10:19 pm
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      I can think of a droid that could similarly be put to rest

      • January 12, 2018 at 12:44 am
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        Re: I can think of a droid

        I can think of more than one.

    • January 11, 2018 at 10:22 pm
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      Hands off the Wookie!

      • January 12, 2018 at 10:31 am
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        Funny: He was the only one of that band, dying in the old EU. No, he is the only one surviving until Ep IX

        • January 12, 2018 at 11:06 am
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          If the wookie dies in 9. I’m out.

  • January 11, 2018 at 9:12 pm
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    As a fan I’d have appreciated more focus on Ackbar’s death but the general audience isn’t invested in the character enough to justify pulling away from the main story to focus on him.

    • January 12, 2018 at 2:35 am
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      Well, he was important enough for them to mention him later on, which, ironically, may get casual moviegoers more confused: “who is this Ackbar that just died?” Because they chose telling, instead of showing.

      • January 12, 2018 at 3:28 am
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        No, A good amount of the dialogue in Star Wars movies goes in one ear and out the other of the average movie goer and isn’t important to the plot. I guarantee most people don’t know that the Emperor is Darth Sidious. When Luke name drops him it means something to you if you know who he’s talking about and if you don’t it doesn’t matter.

      • January 12, 2018 at 3:28 am
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        No, A good amount of the dialogue in Star Wars movies goes in one ear and out the other of the average movie goer and isn’t important to the plot. I guarantee most people don’t know that the Emperor is Darth Sidious. When Luke name drops him it means something to you if you know who he’s talking about and if you don’t it doesn’t matter.

    • January 12, 2018 at 8:57 am
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      Nice reasoning…..I wish there was more of this on social media. LOL. Some lucky space whale is gonna enjoy some tasty fried Calamari that’s for sure.!!!

  • January 11, 2018 at 9:42 pm
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    Ackbar should have replaced Laura Dern’s terrible character. It would’ve been more impactful for the self sacrifice scene, plus everything about Dern and her character were bad

    • January 11, 2018 at 9:54 pm
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      I wish they had done it this way and I have no problem believing his character telling a pilot to get to his post and follow orders.

      I think giving him any more lingering moments at the time he was spaced would have detracted from the Leia impact. I was shocked and surprised that they would just off her so early.

    • January 11, 2018 at 9:58 pm
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      Her not telling Poe was weird anyway. Why not tell your squadron leader the plan? I get he was hot headed at the moment and they weren’t on the best of terms…

      Anyway his growth was really the strongest in the movie so I’d be hesitant to change too much around his arc. I had nothing against Holdo. Plus I don’t see Poe ever mutinying against Ackbar. That’d… feel way off.

      • January 11, 2018 at 10:18 pm
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        Admirals don’t talk strategy with pilots. In the real world, Poe wouldn’t have dared to even approach Holdo. For story telling purposes, I wish she had so Canto Bight could have been sanctioned or removed altogether.

        You’re right about his repect for Ackbar, but he wouldn’t have needed to openly mutiny to learn his lesson.

        • January 11, 2018 at 10:42 pm
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          Well yeah. I’d say the rebellion is informal at best. I’d have redone all of Finn and Rose’s story. All of it. No code breaker. No running to and from the fleeing Resistance fleet.

        • January 11, 2018 at 10:42 pm
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          Well yeah. I’d say the rebellion is informal at best. I’d have redone all of Finn and Rose’s story. All of it. No code breaker. No running to and from the fleeing Resistance fleet.

          • January 13, 2018 at 5:26 am
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            Yep. Replace Holdo with Ackbar and do something else entirely with Finn. I liked that his first waking thoughts were about Rey…do something with that maybe

        • January 11, 2018 at 11:02 pm
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          Admirals don’t wear dresses either.

          • January 13, 2018 at 5:24 am
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            No argument there. Doesn’t make her not an admiral however, since they said she was

          • January 13, 2018 at 5:22 am
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            Right, that’s why they have all those captains, commanders, generals and admirals…because it’s not a military organization.

          • January 13, 2018 at 5:45 am
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            you know better than that. whether we are talking about the original rebellion(a terrorist organization) or the resistance(a private paramilitary militia) neither has any state backing or recognition nor do they have the legitimacy for their ranks. you could walk in off the street with no formal training of any kind and you could be made a general. and you want people to have respect for a chain of command that has that little regard for is own leadership qualifications? no way.

          • January 14, 2018 at 12:06 am
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            You’re saying the Rebellion/Resistance has never been portrayed as a military organization with a command hierarchy? You’re being serious?

            Whether a state military, militia or paramilitary organization the rebels have never been portrayed as thugs and terrorists…despite being called that by Kylo and others. You saying that they have no repect for the leadership qualifications and infrastructure is your own fabrication. The Resistance was made up of mostly ex-military types recruited bu Leia and her cronies and unofficially sanctioned by the New Republic until it was obliterated. Not even close.

          • January 14, 2018 at 1:37 am
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            just because the rebels are portrayed as the good guys it doesn’t change their methods or actions. its just that in their case the ends do justify the means(most of the time), but they absolutely are a collection of terror cells.

            in regards to resistance, again they have no state sanction or backing. i could get together a group of ex military people right now and it wouldn’t be called a military. we’d be labeled militia or militants or mercenaries or partisans, but in no way would we be called a military, even if i gave myself the title of general.

            now, in a normal military you follow the chain of command because you’ve been instilled since boot that the officers commanding you know better than you because they have been trained by the best, promoted by merit and forged in experience. in the Resistance its a pack of wannabes and has-beens playing soldier to a bunch of people picked up off the street. those fighters having nothing to base their faith on in their superiors besides a trust that they have some idea what they are doing and won’t get them all killed. haldo broke that trust and in this very loose and amateurish structure these people who haven’t been molded by training will revert to their individualistic and survival tendencies like poe did.

      • January 11, 2018 at 11:09 pm
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        Saw TLJ for the 5th time yesterday night. Holdo did what she should have done. Lets describe the onscreen interaction between Holdo and Poe.

        First when it is announced that Leia is incapacitated and the line of command is for Holdo to take over. Before her name is said Poe sits up seemingly believing he will be named to temporary leader. Then the first thing Poe does is walk up to Holdo and mansplain to her about fuel and demand answers before she even has had a chance to get data. He then challenges her and she tells him to go to his post and await orders.

        Second interaction is when he comes barging onto the bridge and demands answers. Not asking how he can help, but angrily demanding answers. He then sees the screens showing transports being fueled up and flips his lid. He throws chairs and calls Holdo a traiter.

        Third interaction is when he informs her that he has done something behind her back and starts a mutiny.

        The only problem with Holdo is how when Poe is unconscious she says she likes him. She had no reason to say this. Would have been better for her to tell Leia to watch him he does things on the fly without regard to leadership.

        • January 11, 2018 at 11:30 pm
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          I believe she saw that while he’s a hot head… his intentions and loyalty to the cause were good. There really wasn’t anything left at that point. We’re literally talking about like 40 to 100 people. I think decorum went out the window. In other words she forgave his behavior given the situation.

          He didn’t know her. He felt the situation was dire and that she was failing what little time they had left. I can see both of their points of view but he definitely needed to be calmed down. You could argue she had her hands full too. Didn’t have time to even think he’d go all mutiny on her.

      • January 12, 2018 at 1:20 am
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        They were teaching him a lesson of thinking before acting. A quality any type of squad leader SHOULD have. During the intro, yes the resistance won that fight, but at what cost? They lost all their bombers and shortened the number of troops which is something they can’t afford. Holdo admitted to dealing with hot headed people like him before so perhaps it was more of a humbling exercise. At the end it developed Poe as a character which was nice to see from a character that we almost knew nothing about in TFA.

    • January 11, 2018 at 11:01 pm
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      Unfortunately Ackbar wasn’t female.

        • January 13, 2018 at 5:57 am
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          No Ackbar is clearly a dude. Rose on the other hand…

      • January 12, 2018 at 5:54 pm
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        Why are some men so against female characters in Star Wars…Is it fear?

        • January 12, 2018 at 10:16 pm
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          Why would a man be afraid of a woman lol

          • January 12, 2018 at 11:29 pm
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            You’re clearly single..

          • January 13, 2018 at 5:55 am
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            Nope. Wife and 2 daughters.

    • January 11, 2018 at 11:36 pm
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      This is such an absurd talking point. Movie scripts are not lego sets; you can’t just click one element in to replace something that you remove. If Ackbar was in charge, Poe would have had no reason to mistrust him, which in case you missed it was the ENTIRE POINT of his arc. This silly “I want more fan service” armchair quarterbacking is disingenuous and just plain stupid.

      • January 12, 2018 at 12:51 am
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        The entire mistrust subplot was pointless! Just tell Poe there is a plan! Or else give us a reason to understand her behavior, like a throwaway line about suspecting there’s a mole on board or something.

        Ackbar should have been in charge instead of inventing some new character who acts in a completely nonsensical way just to create a subplot where she’s in conflict with Poe.

        • January 12, 2018 at 1:03 am
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          There is no reason for Holdo to tell Poe about the plan, given that the only thing she knows about him is that he was JUST demoted for disobeying a female superior and putting countless lives in danger. The film does give us a reason to understand her behavior: Poe is a cocky asshole who, upon learning about the plan, IMMEDIATELY puts it in jeopardy by accidentally telling DJ about it. The movie proves Holdo right, and it allows Poe to grow as a character by forcing him to understand that not every problem can be solved by jumping in an X-Wing and blowing something up. Weird that you couldn’t accept that-Could it be that you had the same problem as Poe?

          • January 12, 2018 at 1:14 am
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            If he is so dangerous, throw him in the brig and THEN tell him the plan. Or just throw him in the brig and tell everyone else. Clearly he wasn’t the only person in the dark, because he found people to mutiny with him.

            The entire situation was all contrived to make the audience wonder about her, but in the end it made no sense. Good storytellers could have written something justifying her actions, but what was written didn’t.

          • January 12, 2018 at 1:43 am
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            Look, at the end of the day, Holdo was in charge. She did what she thought was right. That isn’t a plot hole. It’s a character choice. They did justify her actions. You just aren’t satisfied with the justification. Sorry about that.

          • January 12, 2018 at 8:53 am
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            and again, the theme in this movie is choices that lead to failure. Holdo could have chosen to have transparency, but didn’t…thus failing to gain Poes trust. Everybody fucks up in this movie in some fashion….except for the real mary sue….BB8 . Actually he did end up blown up and thrown down some stairs…so he did fail some. I take it back. LOL.

          • January 12, 2018 at 4:30 pm
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            Well it was BB-8’s drunken rolling around that caught the attention of BB-9E in the first place, so all those deaths, the almost complete annihilation of the entire Resistance, is on him 🙂

          • January 12, 2018 at 4:45 pm
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            It made me chuckle that he was humming like a mouse droid. That was a nice little bit of fan service I appreciated.

          • January 12, 2018 at 4:52 pm
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            At least he tried to make up for it with his awesome walker hot-wiring skills!

          • January 12, 2018 at 6:18 pm
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            Yup, exactly. People are constantly mistaking character choices and character failings for plot holes in this movie. It’s exasperating.

          • January 12, 2018 at 5:51 pm
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            maybe it made no sense to you. You can’t speak for everyone. It made total sense to me. I understood the character was a plot device/character driver for Poe. A way to grow his character. It’s honestly not that hard to figure out.

          • January 12, 2018 at 6:39 pm
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            It made sense to you to have a character stubbornly refuse to tell anyone she had a plan to get them out of a dire situation, even when by acting this way she fomented an armed mutiny against her leadership? When we’ve been given no other reason to justify her not saying anything other than she’s being obstinate?

            I concede a story could have been written that led to basically the same result but wasn’t complete nonsense.

            Maybe instead of a tracker have a First Order mole on the ship. Somehow they pick up a signal the mole is beaming back to Hux from some new device (no more of a stretch than the tracker).

            Then have a whole truly suspenseful subplot where Holdo can’t tell anyone where they are going because she doesn’t know who to trust.

            While we’re at it, keep Finn and Rose on the ship, have their story revolve around unmasking the mole and dump the whole Canto Bight.

            Keep Del Toro’s character, just make him the mole. When he’s found, he takes Finn hostage (he knows Phasma wants him) and steals a shuttle to flee back to the New Order ship. Maybe Rose sneaks into some cargo space on the shuttle, and then you can keep the whole thing with Finn and Rose fighting Phasma.

            How is that not better than what actually was presented?

          • January 12, 2018 at 7:05 pm
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            Who did she refuse to tell? A pilot that had been demoted. Other people seemed to know what she was doing.

            Your idea has a ton of holes as well. Why would Rose sneak on the shuttle when she doesn’t have that connection to Finn (That connection grew on Canto Bight)? Why would Rose be tagged to find a mole? The reason she was picked to stop the tracker/go to Canto Bight was because Poe needed people who weren’t close to Holdo.. You rip open huge development holes in characters when you change the story. Now Poe isn’t who he needs to be because he didn’t learn that first lesson, Finn doesn’t see the need for sacrifice for the greater good because most likely, he’s still trying to run away. Any why would Holdo pick Finn to find the mole? He’s a former Stormtrooper and she can’t trust anyone (Your idea..). You really think she’d trust him? Did I open enough holes for you to realize your story wouldn’t have worked?

  • January 11, 2018 at 9:44 pm
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    All he needed was 10 seconds. He more than deserved that. Defending an off screen death from such a beloved classic character is… questionable.

    Seriously… he turns in his chair. We see the missiles reflected in his eyes. He says something like “May the Force be with us.” Eyes close. Leia looks away and braces. Boom.

    Nothing wrong with that. Not even saying it had to be that specific way. Just an example how literally a few seconds can make all the difference. Any number of small exchanges before it ends would have solved this problem.

    • January 12, 2018 at 12:51 am
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      Exactly. Very nice.

      You’d think Disney would have somebody wandering the halls who knows this too. Evidently not.

    • January 11, 2018 at 10:18 pm
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      #Iamackbar

  • January 11, 2018 at 10:19 pm
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    Just one of the many, many things poorly handled in Disney-era Star Wars.

    • January 11, 2018 at 10:22 pm
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      Yes, all side characters should get on-screen memorial services, just make movies 3.5 hours long.

      • January 11, 2018 at 10:58 pm
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        Who said that all side characters should get on-screen memorial services, just make movies 3.5 hours long?

        My only contention was that Ackbar should have replaced the entirely worthless Holod character.

        • January 11, 2018 at 11:14 pm
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          But then you miss the opportunity for Poe to learn his lesson about trusting people who might not appear to be trustworthy…just because they’re in charge….and look for all intents and purposes, like they’re going to get you all killed.

          • January 11, 2018 at 11:35 pm
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            In fact, in the end, Holdo did end up getting most everyone killed. lol

          • January 12, 2018 at 4:13 am
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            I KNOW, RIGHT???!!! THANK YOU! I’ve been looking for a place to drop that into the conversation, but WTF, Rian??? She ends up getting most of the resistance killed in EXACTLY the way Poe says she will when we’re supposed to see that he was wrong about her. |That was boneheaded writing. And this is from someone who LIKED the movie.

          • January 12, 2018 at 4:44 am
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            Did you miss that it was the code breaker selling his information that got everyone killed? Even Poe and Finn’s great Canto Bight plan would still have left the supporting ships as cannon fodder. If the FO didn’t know about the escape pods, they wouldn’t have looked for them and when they finished off the Radus, they would declare victory and go home.

          • January 12, 2018 at 8:49 am
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            Yes, thank you. People didn’t see this aspect of the story. The choices made by Finn, Poe, and Rose, which had good intentions, resulted in the FO finding out what Holdo’s plan was. The funny thing is…in hindsight, they should of done what Holdo did earlier…..hyperspace the Raddus into the Supremacy once they realized they could track them…LOL.

          • January 12, 2018 at 5:32 am
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            Yep. Poe was right. Admiral Female Empowerment Fantasy was wrong.

          • January 12, 2018 at 8:08 pm
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            Finn and Rose’s fault. Had it not been for DJ, The FO would not have known they were escaping using the transports.

          • January 12, 2018 at 8:45 am
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            Actually it was Finn, Rose, and Poe’s plan that killed most of the resistance . Had DJ not come into play, the FO would not of known of Holdo’s plan.

    • January 12, 2018 at 12:26 am
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      Agree completely. And Ackbar was much more than a side character. He had a massive legacy within the Star Wars franchise and played prominent roles during the Clone Wars series (which is canon).

    • January 12, 2018 at 12:26 am
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      Agree completely. And Ackbar was much more than a side character. He had a massive legacy within the Star Wars franchise and played prominent roles during the Clone Wars series (which is canon).

    • January 12, 2018 at 7:18 am
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      of all the things to critique this movie over, akbar is probably at the bottom of the list.

    • January 12, 2018 at 7:18 am
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      of all the things to critique this movie over, akbar is probably at the bottom of the list.

  • January 11, 2018 at 10:54 pm
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    The problem with this movie is the vast difference of expectations between casual fans and those who have familiarized themselves with Star Wars lore.

    Ackbar had hardly any screen time in the OT, but people who grew up reading the books and other material were able to connect more deeply with the character, even if the majority of that content is now considered “legends”.

    This goes beyond just Ackbar, as fans have had issues with a number of other things. I was pretty excited for Disney to do away with the EU and make something new, probably because I felt like the EU story arc was starting to become a little stale. After reading those stories for years though, it would be a lie to say that my expectations for characters weren’t directly influenced by what I had previously read and known about the post ROTJ galaxy.

    Wasn’t a huge fan of this movie, but I’m also not one to believe that Disney is killing the franchise, they’re just doing something different. Unfortunately, it’s difficult to completely write off expectations based off the EU, because the EU truly did have some really great content.

    • January 12, 2018 at 4:40 pm
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      I think it has to do with how invested you are in the non-film canon, or the old EU.

      I won’t justify my Star Wars fan bonafides, but I will say I’m pretty far from a casual fan. Having said that, I’ve never taken the EU or the non-film sources seriously with a need to reconcile them with the films. As I said earlier, if it didn’t happen in a movie, it didn’t happen at all (and the prequels are a pick and choose scenario for me).

      Is this something LF and Disney did to themselves? Probably. If they didn’t saturate all media with everything Star Wars and then call it canon, people wouldn’t be calling for better treatment of their favourites, or for greater recognition of characters and events in the movies.

  • January 11, 2018 at 11:01 pm
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    This reminds me of the Leia/Chewie no-moment “controversy” from TFA.
    I think maybe if they didn’t rush these movies so much, they would be able to avoid these “oops” moments…Maybe. TLJ was “finished” months before release…I don’t know.

    • January 11, 2018 at 11:13 pm
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      It doesn’t sound like an ‘ooops’ though. Ackbar’s death was apparently supposed to elicit virtually no response from the audience. I mean, I guess?

  • January 11, 2018 at 11:11 pm
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    “Bauersfeld did not voice Ackbar at all in The Last Jedi, and was replaced by Tom Kane”
    Ah, that would explain why I wasn’t even clear that the character was supposed to have been Ackbar until his death was specifically mentioned. Meh, it didn’t break the movie or anything, but I didn’t think that it actually BEING Ackbar added anything at all to the film.

  • January 12, 2018 at 12:08 am
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    Do people really care about Admiral Ackbar that much? I mean no offense, but other than his “ITS A TRAP” as well as him being a meme for years, there was really no importance to his character.

    • January 12, 2018 at 12:14 am
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      He belongs in an aquarium, not commanding the deck of a cruiser.

      Fuck him!

      • January 12, 2018 at 1:08 am
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        Lmaooo yea fuck that guy. Probably smells all fishy

      • January 12, 2018 at 1:08 am
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        Lmaooo yea fuck that guy. Probably smells all fishy

      • January 12, 2018 at 4:10 am
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        THAT BELONGS IN A MUS….AQUARIUM!!!!

        • January 12, 2018 at 7:50 am
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          Best I could do.

      • January 12, 2018 at 2:59 pm
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        Now he belongs with drawn butter.

    • January 12, 2018 at 1:16 am
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      I’m still trying to figure out why he was blue in Rogue One.

    • January 12, 2018 at 2:48 am
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      It really is another case of “but I read all these books that had his backstory and you didn’t consider MY needs when making a movie for everyone.”

  • January 12, 2018 at 12:25 am
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    And the justification explanations continue… guess we’ll be having these until the Solo film comes out and they switch to explaining that one away post-release.

  • January 12, 2018 at 12:43 am
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    He was a great side character who got shuffled aside so there was no distraction from the greatness that was VICE ADMIRAL HOLDO. We have to make room for all that is new — which wouldn’t be such a problem if any of the new stuff didn’t just plain suck.

    And no, you don’t have to read a dozen EU novels to appreciate him. Just watch ROTJ. He’s the first wildly exotic alien you see holding some position of authority in the Rebellion, and he leads the entire fleet into what remains the best space battle in cinema.

    • January 12, 2018 at 2:43 am
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      Great Disqus name! I absolutely love Buck Rogers and that episode is one of my favorite, nice plot, decent acting and Erin Gray looks her best. Disney Star Wars needs less progressiveness and more 70’s feel. Disco ball!

      • January 12, 2018 at 7:01 pm
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        Haha thanks. Yeah that was certainly an epic episode.

  • January 12, 2018 at 2:35 am
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    Now that I read this I can’t help but think Ackbar should’ve been given the Holdo story arc. To have him deal with the mutiny and then go out in a literal blaze of glory like that would’ve been freaking amazing, and made his character and reputation even more legendary. Dammit. I loved the movie, but this seems like a real opportunity missed.

    • January 12, 2018 at 10:46 am
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      This missed opportunity reminded me of the Traitor!-Trooper scene in TFA — it should have been Phasma who gave Finn the smackdown with the electro-baton.

      • January 12, 2018 at 3:55 pm
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        Yep.

    • January 12, 2018 at 3:30 pm
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      That would have not worked. Poe would not have gone against Ackbar.

    • January 12, 2018 at 3:30 pm
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      That would have not worked. Poe would not have gone against Ackbar.

    • January 12, 2018 at 3:54 pm
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      Agreed. I wouldn’t have minded holdo coming back in 9.

  • January 12, 2018 at 2:40 am
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    Question:

    Why would Luke leave a map in R2-D2 to find him, if he went to the Jedi island planet to die?

    • January 12, 2018 at 3:48 am
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      He didn’t. R2-D2 recovered that map from the Imperial archives when he plugged into the Death Star. It was an incomplete map of ancient Jedi temples. Kylo Ren mentions having recovered the same incomplete map in his interrogation of Rey in TFA.

      • January 12, 2018 at 5:33 am
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        Then how did this map mark the way to Luke, if it was just a map of Jedi temples?

        • January 12, 2018 at 7:57 am
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          Because as Han Solo put it, “those who knew him best” guessed that he went looking for the first Jedi temple. Ergo, a map to the first Jedi temple is as good as a map to Luke.

          • January 12, 2018 at 3:30 pm
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            This.

        • January 12, 2018 at 3:30 pm
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          Watch the movie.

          • January 12, 2018 at 8:42 pm
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            I watched it once. Once is quite enough thank you very much.

          • January 12, 2018 at 9:12 pm
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            Clearly it wasn’t.

          • January 12, 2018 at 9:15 pm
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            Oh yes. It most certainly was.

          • January 12, 2018 at 9:15 pm
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            Maybe Rian Johnson will explain it for me in the coming weeks.

          • January 14, 2018 at 9:50 pm
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            It won’t matter

          • January 14, 2018 at 10:06 pm
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            You’re probably right. lol

      • January 12, 2018 at 4:00 pm
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        Why the hell do you need A MAP in SPACE??? You can just point where the planet is, you don’t need to go from planet to planet to find it.. it’s freakin space!!! Stupid Disney made Star Wars for dumb people… It’s even worse than the bombardment in space with no gravity…

        • January 12, 2018 at 5:43 pm
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          I think you may be one of the dumb people…

    • January 12, 2018 at 5:03 am
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      It’s why did he leave a map to Lor San Tekka? Don’t think too hard about it because it doesn’t make a lick of sense. Speaking of licking, since Rian Johnson subverted our expectations in this film it means we all have to lick his balls until the end of time.

      • January 12, 2018 at 5:31 am
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        That’s one heck of a subversion.

        • January 12, 2018 at 3:59 pm
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          Another question: Why the hell do you need A MAP in SPACE??? You can just point where the planet is, you don’t need to go from planet to planet to find it.. it’s freakin space!!! Stupid Disney made Star Wars for dumb people… It’s even worse than the bombardment in space with no gravity…

          • January 12, 2018 at 5:15 pm
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            Navigations charts. Precise calculations. Flying through hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops.

            The dreadnought would have its own artificial gravity.

            Same way the executor crashed into the second Death Star.

            If these things bother you perhaps you’re too old and cynical for Star Wars.

          • January 12, 2018 at 6:20 pm
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            Yes….just point where the planet is…lol…yeah its really that simple…not.

      • January 12, 2018 at 7:41 am
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        Did he though?

        As far as I’m aware Luke and Lor San Tekka have never ever met.

      • January 12, 2018 at 3:29 pm
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        He didn’t.

        Lor san Tekka has a map to the first Jedi Temple, where Han tells Rey that Luke has gone.

        Watching movies is hard!

        • January 12, 2018 at 5:10 pm
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          The super snarky cool I smoke Kamel Reds behind the school yard tone you always seem to have isn’t necessary here Deadly. Let me rephrase, If we are going off of Luke’s actual spoken words and not “well I think he meant this from a certain point of view yadda yadda” then he specifically states Why do you think I came to the most unfindable place in the galaxy? I came here to die. If that was always the case, then why tell people where you are going to begin with? If you don’t want to be found, why tell Lor San Tekka, the guy you were exploring the galaxy with where you are going? Everyone seems very certain that the map leads directly to Luke and that he has been there for years. He could have left and went off somewhere else but decided to stay. The Force Awakens makes it seems like he wanted to be found “In case of emergency break glass” type of deal. Something something about subverting expectations, Rian Johnson being a genius, something about green milk.

          • January 12, 2018 at 6:14 pm
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            He didn’t tell anyone where he was going. Han says those who knew him best THINK he went looking for the first Jedi temple. Lor San Tekka and Luke worked together to find out Jedi stuff. I don’t think Luke gave Lor San Tekka the map saying hey u can find me here…he just had it because he helped Luke find it. Lor contacted The Resistance saying hey I might have some info for y’all.

          • January 12, 2018 at 6:56 pm
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            What a incredible guess they had! There is no thinking that Luke might be there, it’s almost certain by everyone from, Poe, Leia, everyone in the Resistance that Luke is there in TFA. Let’s follow some logic here. Even if it’s true that Luke didn’t give a map to Lor San Tekka, if Luke’s ultimate goal was to go off and die alone as it is explicitly stated in the movie, why would he go off looking for the first Jedi Temple? Why choose the holiest of holy places of the Jedi to cut yourself off from the force? Why would anyone assume he is there?

            The simple answer is that TLJ doesn’t connect with most of what TFA set up to any sort of logical end. You want to “subvert expectations” fine but it has to make some sort of sense. RJ took a big swing, but he swung through that 3-2 fastball down the middle that JJ left for him. Just my opinion though.

          • January 12, 2018 at 7:03 pm
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            Your opinion, my opinion. Based on overseas box office, it appears to be the opinion of most of China as well.

          • January 14, 2018 at 3:01 pm
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            Yep the China box office is reflecting what a terrible film a good % of fans think it is…go and check the numbers. This may well end up being disliked more than the prequels. It is going to have a massive impact on the next 2 SW films….fans are pissed off and it is getting worse!!

          • January 12, 2018 at 7:47 pm
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            I don’t smoke. But I do watch the movies and all the answers are there.

            Watch TFA again:
            Han: He was training a new generation of Jedi. There was nobody else left to do it, so he took the burden on himself. Everything was going great, until…one boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just…walked away from everything.Finn: Do you know what happened to him?Han: There were a lot of rumors. Stories. People who knew him best, think he went looking for the first Jedi temple.

            He didn’t TELL people. It was rumored that’s what he was doing, that’s what he was looking for. San Tekka had a map to the first Jedi temple, that’s all. Leia was hoping it would lead to Luke.

            Never said anything about subverting, nothing about Johnson being a genius which I have NEVER said because I don’t think that’s true.

            The answers are all in the movies.

          • January 12, 2018 at 7:47 pm
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            I don’t smoke. But I do watch the movies and all the answers are there.

            Watch TFA again:
            Han: He was training a new generation of Jedi. There was nobody else left to do it, so he took the burden on himself. Everything was going great, until…one boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just…walked away from everything.Finn: Do you know what happened to him?Han: There were a lot of rumors. Stories. People who knew him best, think he went looking for the first Jedi temple.

            He didn’t TELL people. It was rumored that’s what he was doing, that’s what he was looking for. San Tekka had a map to the first Jedi temple, that’s all. Leia was hoping it would lead to Luke.

            Never said anything about subverting, nothing about Johnson being a genius which I have NEVER said because I don’t think that’s true.

            The answers are all in the movies.

          • January 12, 2018 at 8:12 pm
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            It’s an incredible guess that is where he is. And it takes a ton of logic jumps to get there. So at somepoint Luke and Lor San Tekka talked about trying to find the first Jedi Temple and then the stuff with Ben happens and Luke just leaves, so everyone is assuming and guessing that is where he would go? Nevermind that everyone from Poe, Leia and the rest of the resistance seems to be certain that is where Luke is. Poe says “it’s got a map that leads straight to Luke Skywalker” Leia is dejected when the incomplete map doesn’t give them an answer to where Luke is. The map is treated as if it’s THE answer to Luke’s wearabouts, despite what Han said. And then there is Luke’s I came to the most unfindable place to die. You have to do so much heavy lifting and post jumping to get to where TLJ says where Luke is from where TFA left off.

          • January 12, 2018 at 9:14 pm
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            “So at somepoint Luke and Lor San Tekka talked about trying to find the first Jedi Temple and then the stuff with Ben happens and Luke just leaves, so everyone is assuming and guessing that is where he would go?”

            This is all a leap in and of itself.

            The map is to the first Jedi Temple. The rumor is that Luke went there. Nothing about him and Lor San Tekka talking about it at all. He has a map to the temple where people think Luke might be. That’s it. You are making it more complicated than I think it is.

            Yeah, they hope and think it leads to Luke. They don’t know, but it’s their only chance.

            Luke didn’t leave behind any clues. They just found a map to the temple.

          • January 12, 2018 at 9:17 pm
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            Ahh. Now I see.

          • January 12, 2018 at 9:25 pm
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            If he didn’t leave behind or tell anyone of his plans, then why do people assume that is where he went? How does that start? It’s just the best pure guess in the history of the universe?

          • January 12, 2018 at 9:25 pm
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            If he didn’t leave behind or tell anyone of his plans, then why do people assume that is where he went? How does that start? It’s just the best pure guess in the history of the universe?

          • January 14, 2018 at 9:50 pm
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            Maybe he alluded to it before he left. Maybe Leia had people tracking him and that’s where the clues and rumors led.

            Sounds like a good story we should get one day.

    • January 12, 2018 at 3:29 pm
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      He didn’t Artoo had a map to the first Jedi Temple where Han said Luke is supposed to have gone.

      It’s all in the movie.

  • January 12, 2018 at 8:19 am
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    “I wonder if I should do that differently.” Yeah, you keep wondering that.

  • January 12, 2018 at 9:01 am
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    I just thought of something…..some ewok got a better death scene than Ackbar did. I hate what Disney has done to my Star Wars, I am done !! LOL.

    • January 12, 2018 at 12:11 pm
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      Might have to do with the fact that the heroes literally were in the Ewoks home. I’m sure Ackbar would if we were in his hometown.
      Anyhow, bye.

    • January 12, 2018 at 4:33 pm
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      More of an indictment of creative choices in ROTJ than TLJ.

    • January 12, 2018 at 11:00 pm
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      The Last Jedi was disrespectful from start to finish.

      • January 13, 2018 at 1:55 am
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        To your expectations.

  • January 12, 2018 at 10:23 am
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    What I see here, just a personal thought, is something like PT times: it seems there has been no competent and experienced workers next to the director, someone who could give wise ideas and impartial visions of the production. We know that some kind of artistic works, sometimes become really great for the amount of good collaborators you have on your side. I think Mr. Johnson had too much freedom to develop any kind of ideas, like George did with PT. Sometimes it’s interesting, because it’s the personal and risky vision of an artist and in ocasions has the opposition of bad counselors, and then we have no opportunity to see the real vision of an author. But in my opinion, this productions, like PT and TLJ (productions that have a big social impact) lack of impartial and constructive criticism from inside, people who could say with confidence to the director: “this doesn’t work” or “we have to change this or that”, specially with some kind of script decisions and visual aspects. The TLJ is not that bad, but there are little details that they don’t make it that great.

    • January 12, 2018 at 1:15 pm
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      On the other hand, the two directors for SOLO and the one originally directing Ep IX were fired – and JJ Abrams was executive producer for Ep VIII, while being the director for VII and now IX. And there is the LF head. So, I think Rian Johnson had to present and discuss his ideas with many people and unlike George Lucas, he would have got fired, if he did not deliver a product, satisfying for them.

      • January 12, 2018 at 2:37 pm
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        You have a point too, although not sure if he had to discuss with somebody. He always said he had absolutely freedom from LF.
        Another thing, J.J. being executive producer. As much as I know (and I am not an expert), an executive producer has nothing to do in a production. His name is there only to make happy some people. In recent interviews, I think Rian said he talked with J.J. about some aspects of the transition from 7 to 8, but Rian said he had total freedom to develop his film and J.J. had nothing to do with it. He also said he can’t do nothing with EIX because is Abram’s script and movie.
        I am not saying Rian is bad with his own scripts like his other works. But with SW probably could be better if he had a more experienced hand on his side like Kasdan to put some details in perspective and coherence.
        The work of Rian, develop his own projects writing and directing it, is risky. I admire this position because he always will be the responsible for the success or the failure. Sometimes can go well, sometimes not.

        • January 12, 2018 at 5:12 pm
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          George Harrison has producer credit for “Time Bandits” ’cause he wrote a song and funded some cash — it’s a very vague position in the film industry.

          [EDIT / CORRECTION] — George funded *lotsa* cash

          • January 12, 2018 at 7:30 pm
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            While I agree with your point, George Harrison owned the production company that made Time Bandits and pretty well funded it entirely, so your wording is a little uncharitable there.

          • January 12, 2018 at 7:37 pm
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            True — I fixed it.

            (George is the best Beatle, ain’t he?)

          • January 12, 2018 at 7:42 pm
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            That would probably depend on how you define ‘best’. But I can’t argue with the notion.

          • January 12, 2018 at 7:46 pm
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            I hear ya.

            (Ringo is some tough competition.)

      • January 12, 2018 at 5:10 pm
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        J.J. had little-to-no involvement, it’s a credit in name only.

        Rian is on record saying they gave him free reign (whether it’s true or not).

        • January 12, 2018 at 6:24 pm
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          He certainly had the freedom to develop the story the way, he wanted. But I doubt he did not have to convince KK or at least talk to her. So, she maybe gave him feedback.
          Since it’s been only three month or less from announcing JJ as the director of Ep IX to the release of EP VIII, I agree that JJ maybe was not too involved into connecting the story with his idea of Ep IX

          • January 12, 2018 at 6:26 pm
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            Plus J.J. has been a consummate professional by not saying a word about TLJ, either pro or con.

            Smart.

          • January 12, 2018 at 10:57 pm
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            Its obvious that JJ hated it. He’s being smart and saying nothing. But if he loved it, we would have heard him gushing by now.

          • January 12, 2018 at 11:18 pm
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            And that’s what I appreciate about him — he ain’t perfect, but he seems to have very little tolerance for bullshit these days.

    • January 12, 2018 at 5:06 pm
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      Case in point — Harrison Ford and the “I Love you too” vs “I know” line change. That’s called free-thinking, and Disney won’t have anything of the sort… ever again.

      • January 12, 2018 at 5:14 pm
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        Random improvised lines which the director really likes and keeps are hardly the purview of whatever position Disney has over Lucasfilm. A chunk of ‘Thor Ragnarok’ apparently changed thanks to the good lines that were improvised, and Disney didn’t interfere there.

        If you’re going to make the case for the lack of free thinking, at least use an example that makes sense.

        • January 12, 2018 at 5:23 pm
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          Mark Hamill was stifled. Whether he should have been granted creative input into his character or not (which is absolutely a debatable topic), he obviously wasn’t permitted that degree of collaboration.

          • January 12, 2018 at 5:29 pm
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            The relation between director, writer and actor with regard to creative input as you describe is rather standard in general in film production, though, not anything Disney-specific.

            Heck, Hamill himself wanted a more radical aesthetic take on Luke Skywalker for RotJ which Lucas didn’t agree with and which we didn’t get. Is that a particular example of a lack of collaboration or stifling?

          • January 12, 2018 at 5:33 pm
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            It is. It’s not wrong either. Lucas telling Mark to shut up and dance like a monkey is absolutely his prerogative and I’d agree with him.

            But… on the flip-side — George wasn’t physically present for much of ESB, and I wonder, had he been the director, would he have let Harrison upgrade that line of dialogue? I dunno.

          • January 12, 2018 at 5:42 pm
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            That I can’t answer with certainty. Given that I’ve seen the actors Lucas directed rather badly in the prequels, admittedly at a later stage in his career, do much better work for most of their careers, I’m inclined to say, “No”.

          • January 12, 2018 at 5:48 pm
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            I’l take back my comment about Disney with J.J. being the one exception. He has an open mind, and Disney trusts him. I know for a fact that he’s all for improvisation since he’s on record expressing his frustration with filming Star Trek ’09 during the writer’s strike. They legally were not permitted to change a beat in that script, and so many fun ideas and opportunities had to be shut down with the dialogue being locked.

          • January 12, 2018 at 6:12 pm
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            Stifled or surprised?

            The story I’ve heard is MH reading the script and saying “Jedi don’t give up!”, and RJ saying “Sure they do. Here’s why…”

            Must he back off his vision because of initial reactions?

          • January 12, 2018 at 6:17 pm
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            I’m not a big fan of absolutes from either side of the coin. Whatever angle he wanted to take just simply could have been done with more nuance.

          • January 13, 2018 at 1:52 am
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            And thank god for that!

    • January 12, 2018 at 5:52 pm
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      I don’t buy that.

      TLJ, while not perfect (I would have moved the Battle Of Crait to act 1 of EpIX, for example) is really really good. The more I think about it, the more I like it. It had a vision that we don’t often see – in fact, we only really saw anything close to that vision in Empire – Failure Is The Best Teacher. And I’ve said before in other forums that when RJ was presented with the easy, fan service choice or the interesting choice, he chose the second, almost without exception.

      Who should RJ have consulted? Should he have brought in a focus group of Star Wars fans to see how his choices would go over? That’s how you get The Emoji Movie.

      I have to believe that when you make decisions about named characters, you *must* go through the story group. Do you think KK didn’t have a veto, or that PH was too scared to pull RJ aside and tell him he was going down the wrong path, or that Ackbar needed better treatment? I just can’t believe that’s true. Beyond the fact that everything I’ve ever read about RJ makes him out to be the nicest, least scary guy ever and would absolutely take the input of people he trusts to heart, those people don’t seem like shrinking violets to me, and would make their opinion known right away if they felt something was going to happen to hurt the franchise.

      No, LF and Disney got the movie – and more importantly the story – they wanted. This one wasn’t for kids. This one wasn’t a beat by beat retelling of Empire. This was new. This was different. This was really really good.

      • January 12, 2018 at 6:56 pm
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        It wasn’t for kids or discerning adults.

        “Fan service” vs. interesting choices is a false dichotomy. Just because Johnson (or whoever was in charge) took every opportunity to insult longtime fans, it doesn’t follow that the choices made were interesting. It just looked childish. “I’ll show you what I think of your stupid Star Wars!”

        Luke’s line about “laser swords” was a big red flag. It was contemptuous of everything that had come before, and to add to the insult they made the words come out of Luke’s mouth.

        I really don’t know anyone who hated the movie like I did who also wasn’t open to new things, or Luke dying, or any crazy plot developments as long as they made sense and did not violate the rules and characters already established in the previous movies.

        • January 12, 2018 at 7:04 pm
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          You see, to me, the “laser sword” line, along with the shocking -not funny – shoulder toss was perfect. It showed us just how far he had fallen, how disillusioned he was with the whole thing. Makes his redemption at the end so much more powerful and interesting than just Rey showing up, them flying back to the Resistance while training and Luke and Rey kicking ass together.

        • January 12, 2018 at 7:04 pm
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          You see, to me, the “laser sword” line, along with the shocking -not funny – shoulder toss was perfect. It showed us just how far he had fallen, how disillusioned he was with the whole thing. Makes his redemption at the end so much more powerful and interesting than just Rey showing up, them flying back to the Resistance while training and Luke and Rey kicking ass together.

          • January 12, 2018 at 10:55 pm
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            Luke throwing the Saber was the most immaturely written moment ever in a Star Wars film. It was literally Rian taking a crap on the entirety of Episode 7 and it was shameful.

          • January 18, 2018 at 4:29 pm
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            Youre right,i thought i was hallucinating when he threw it.It retrospectively destroys the ending of the force awakens,which will now forever be the build up to an awfull gag.

          • January 13, 2018 at 2:01 am
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            After seeing it again today, I agree. I don’t think the sabre toss was intended to be a gag, rather an expression of where Luke was as a character.

            What makes it funny is knowing how many people are just plain butthurt about it.

        • January 12, 2018 at 10:56 pm
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          Rian pretty much destroys every scene in the Last Jedi with Bad Humor / Sarcasm. Every character is a “wise guy” — heck even Yoda is cracking lame-jokes at Luke’s expense. Terrible film.

          • January 13, 2018 at 1:51 am
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            Your use of every scene and every character is baseless. Some of the humor was bad, some was good and some (sabre toss) was probably not intended to be humorous at all. Watching it again today, I didn’t take it as humor.

        • January 13, 2018 at 1:49 am
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          Liking or hating the movie is definitely subjective. While you and others view RJ as taking “every opportunity to insult longtime fans”, I completely disagree…and I’m a long-time 40 year fan. But we don’t speak for each other so that’s cool.

          After letting all the negative comments soak in for a couple of weeks, I went back to watch it again today. In my opinion, it’s a flawed gem of a movie and a great addition to the saga and I found all the bits with Luke to be even better this (5th) time around.

    • January 12, 2018 at 4:52 pm
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      that’s awesome!

    • January 12, 2018 at 6:40 pm
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      Almost perfect, it could only be better if he was whispering that into Mark Hamill’s ear.

    • January 13, 2018 at 2:24 am
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      Ackbar was an important figure in the rebellion and I liked him. But let’s be real, if it wasn’t for this meme the character would have been relegated to obscurity.

      I wish he had flown the Raddus into Snoke’s ship, then he would have been remembered for more than just one line.

  • January 12, 2018 at 6:46 pm
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    All these articles answering debatable points of TLJ seem a bit like damage control to me.

    I mean geez don’t they get fans with fresh eyes in to watch first edits and say well your treatment of Akbar was pretty average……or whatever. Hell they should be doing that at the start.

    • January 13, 2018 at 2:19 am
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      Simply, they liked what they had when the put it in the can.

  • January 12, 2018 at 6:55 pm
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    It worked for me.

  • January 13, 2018 at 3:58 pm
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    In war people can suffer pointless death. Being an Admiral does not exempt you from this or give you the right to a cool hero death.

  • January 14, 2018 at 2:12 am
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    Did Disney ask for haters permission to kill him? What about the tie fighters pilots? Did they ask for the whiners permission? What a shame

  • January 14, 2018 at 10:23 pm
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    Travesty

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