Kathleen Kennedy is All About the Characters When it Comes to Star Wars Storytelling
Vanity Fair published a very interesting interview with Lucasfilm President Kathleen Kennedy about her career as producer and the new challenges in front of her after accepting the daunting job to be the driving force behind what is possibly the biggest movie franchise in the world.
One particularly interesting part from the interview is when writer Tony Kushner (with whom Kennedy worked on Munich and Lincoln) commented on her approach to the new Star Wars stories. One of the best things about The Force Awakens is that it’s definitely a character driven movie. We can all agree that they managed to introduce some vivid and memorable characters, and it appears that we may have Kathy to thank for that.
From Vanity Fair:
“I suppose the thing that I think about every now and then, that I miss, is: I love writers.” In particular she mentioned Tony Kushner, who wrote the play and the screen adaptation of Angels in America. Kushner also worked with Kennedy on Munich and Lincoln. She said, “To sit and talk ideas with Tony—to, you know, explore lots of different areas we could go—it’s such a constant education. That is thrilling. And so the only thing I suppose I can do is try to get Tony Kushner to write a Star Wars movie.” Kennedy laughed. “There are times I think about that.”
Keep in mind that there is still no writer or director attached to the third stand alone movie, which appears to be on hold right now. So who knows, maybe Kushner will be among the likely candidates for it. We can only hope.
Kushner told me he was “a little shocked” when Kennedy said she was going to take the Lucasfilm job. Kennedy is known for creating and nurturing complex characters in her movies—people such as the Israeli assassin in Munich, played by Eric Bana, and Daniel Day-Lewis’s flawed and all-too-human Lincoln. What was she doing running a science-fiction empire? This past summer, his fears were allayed when he and Kennedy had a conversation about the development of some of the scripts for current and future Star Wars movies. “She talked about the way in which the conventional approach to these things is that a script starts from an outline, and that’s what everybody focuses on before there’s a word of dialogue.” In Kushner’s recollection, Kennedy was urging the writers to turn their focus to the characters. She kept saying to them, “Who are these people? I don’t know who these people are.” Kushner felt that “she was expressing an impatience about character being secondary to story line, which violated something very essential for her.”
He went on: “We had an interesting conversation about how a lot of playwrights start with outlines because it gives you something to hold on to, but that you know the characters are likely to derail the outline once they start doing what they do.” He and Kennedy talked about how “there’s no telling what will happen once you have invented a person. They may be willing to do what the outline says to do, but they may have very different plans in mind.” The sense Kushner got was that Kennedy “was pushing people to be unafraid of being lost for a while. It was good to see her holding the banner of complexity in the middle of this huge enterprise of Star Wars.” The machines, in other words, have not won.
The next paragraph is a really good sign that our favorite franchise is in good hands:
Kennedy told me that, while she’s excited about the future of the movie business, “a lot of these big movies are just a collection or a montage of big set pieces. And there is, in some cases, this feeling of: ‘Oh, it doesn’t really matter if there’s a central spine to the storytelling. As long as we keep it moving—and the effects are huge and it’s loud and the music’s great and the locations are fantastic—it’s all going to wash over the audience.’ ” She calls the result of such assumptions “disposable filmmaking.”
For the full interview, make sure to go to Vanity Fair.
Founder of SWNN, MNN and The Cantina forums.
Born on April 24, 1980.
With clear results. This is why I love and forgive some of the missteps of the TFA. The characters were so dang likable. Enough so I wouldn’t mind them slowing down a bit to add even more development. Let em breath a little. Quiet moments!
She is exactly right and that is why I stopped going to Summer Blockbusters because all they care about is wowing people and trying to up the next blockbuster with CGI.
Why I still care about my SW at my age is because it’s still about the characters, just like it was in 1977. Luke, Leia and Han were the reason SW still resonates with me almost 40 years later. I can’t say that for Anakin, Padme and Obiwan as that to me was the biggest flaw of the PT. Rey, Finn and Poe won me over, so I’m all in for the ST.
I’m right there with you. I share a lot of the same feelings you said there as an older fan myself. The Prequels though tolerable, (I did actually like Episode 3 for the most part) didn’t have good character development. I can’t tell you anything about any of the main characters in the PT. The “epic” battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan left me wanting. I just didn’t care enough about thier characters, even though that should have been the best thing in Star Wars film history at that point. The whole “brotherhood” between them just felt lackluster. It also didn’t help me that GL couldn’t keep his on canon in order, but I digress.
The Force Awakens to me just felt right. There were a couple things that felt off, such as the rathtars, why they were in it, I’m not sure. Overall, I’m very happy with the results and the way things seem to be going with my favorite childhood obsession!
Yep – the Prequels don’t “hold up” because the character development was so poor. I felt NOTHING when Anakin burned, I remember thinking “Well at least we finally get the Darth Suit” LOL
Right on, sir!
It’ll be disposable film making if they keep copying the originals 1:1.
Characters were what saved TFA for me. Thanks for that Kathy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma_yQgfO3xQ
spot on!!!! Love it!
I seems some people still don’t know what word ” parody ” means.
Moreover TFA is still hundred times better than garbage in post ROTJ old EU continuity.
Kushner’s a good writer, but Star Wars? I can’t see it. His screenplays read like actual plays because he comes from a playwright background – very dialogue heavy, lengthy scenes of people talking and talking…
ESB was very similar. =P
ESB didn’t have long, play-like scenes of people talking. It had just enough quality dialogue with plenty of great action sequences.
Yep. the PT were the ones with the long talking scenes.
ESB is genius in its dialogue and performances.
Each scene is pretty short and the dialogue is important and its still gets across SO MUCH in those short scenes. All of Han’s arrogance and heart, all of Yoda’s urgency, all of Luke’s cynicism and fear, all of Leia’s burden…..freaking amazing.
The other thing it does better than any of the 7 films so far is moderate those action scenes with quiet scenes – the ebb and flow in the pacing is perfect in ESB; lots of high intensity action, but with enough breathing room for the audience to recover and absorb what they’re seeing. TFA did not achieve this balance and went straight for “ALL ACTION, ALL THE TIME!!” to its detriment.
second acts get that luxury.
Tony Kushner will be an excellent writer for a Star Wars film. The characters were the best part of the Force Awakens. If we can get a great story and awesome developed characters, Star Wars will always be my most anticipated movies to come.
If you have well written characters, then the action set pieces have much more meaning and impact because you care about the situations the characters end up in. Additionally, the slower character driven moments don’t drag when you actually care about the people on screen. Having good characters doesn’t excuse a poor script or action sequence, but it does make the audience more forgiving of imperfections in your film if they are invested in your characters.
Munich totally surprised me! Not only was it one of Spielberg’s best films it’s hands down the best espionage film, period. I’d love for Kushner to writer a SW film.
7 was character driven….can’t stop laughing!
? it was.
No, it wasn’t.
yes it was. X 10! 😉
Being in an science-fiction movie dosn’t negate the need for good characters. We’ve seen from transformers that even with the best explosions that money can buy, it means nothing if you aren’t invested. Kathleen Kennedy should see if Daniel day lewis can take a few days off of shoe cobbling to appear in a star wars film. (not that he would)
I agree that characters are one of the main things that has always made a great SW film, and TFA had great and interesting characters. I am glad to see that Kathy is driving this through all of the new SW movies. My bet is that we get a lot more of the “quiet moments” and character development in Episode 8.
I’m honestly hoping that 8 opens up in the middle of Rey training with Luke. We don’t really need to see a scene with her asking to be trained and him going “no but yes but no but Ghost Yoda what do you think”.
Incoming: comments from haters…
The new characters in TFA were awesome, it was the plot that needed work. Hopefully they fix that going forward. Still, it was a good movie.
Oh man, how different would have been the Prequels with Kennedy on board.
Probably one of the biggest mistakes in movie history
Can you imagine the Prequels with KATHLEEN, JJ , and KASDAN?!?!?!
I think if the above had worked with Lucas’s overall idea for the prequels we could of had something special.
Absolutely! But I also can imagine Lucas working with them in prequels. I think that could be good too. 😛 I will always think McCallum was the worst part of PT. The difference between Kennedy and McCallum is really really huge: The works they have been involved are the perfect exemple. 😉
“a lot of these big movies are just a collection or a montage of big set pieces. And there is, in some cases, this feeling of: ‘Oh, it doesn’t really matter if there’s a central spine to the storytelling. As long as we keep it moving—and the effects are huge and it’s loud and the music’s great and the locations are fantastic—it’s all going to wash over the audience.’ ” She calls the result of such assumptions “disposable filmmaking.”
Why, that is what TFA is, this statement is weird, maybe Disney’s suits pressured her too much.
The new characters are likable, no doubt, and Ridley, Boyega and Isaac did a great job at bringing them to life. But it’s got to be said: Till Rey’s sudden “awakening” is explained, she comes across as one of the biggest Mary Sues in the history of cinema.
Also, Finn’s reasons to defect were never properly explained in the film, the same as Poe’s escape from Jakku. And Kylo Ren’s introduction hurt the character, too. He went from imposing, powerful dark side warrior to whiny, immature, insecure jerk, who wasn’t even fully trained yet in the end.
It’s funny that someone who claims to be all about the characters, like Kennedy, wouldn’t have noticed these details that, while small, are very important to overall character development.
How Poe got off a desert planet is important to his character development? Really?
Yes, it is. It would’ve helped to illustrate how resourceful (or not) the guy is, just like Han proved with his many improbable escapes in the OT, for instance.
That would possibly show us some of his abilities, but it’s not integral to the CHARACTER, especially when we have 2 more movies to develop him.
Anytime a character survives and escapes from a deep hole offscreen, w/o any explanation for the crowd (other than, “I woke up, and you were gone, man!) it is lazy writing.
Poe’s survival and escape from Jakku might not be integral to the character’s development, but it IS integral to the character’s involvement with the general plot.
Oh, and “we” are not developing anything. That would be Rian Johnson who will do this. Some of you fanboys really need to understand that, for as much as you love Star Wars, it is NOT your property and we are NOT all part of one huge hive mentality.
That last post completely misinterpreted my commented. I know that I’m not part of VIII’s production. Take off that tin foil hat, lol.
I know you’re not part of Ep. VIII production, too. I was just being sarcastic…except for the part about some of you fanboys needing to understand that SW isn’t your property and that not all of us think the same (you hate the PT, for instance. I don’t. I LOVE George Lucas’ crazy, bold ideas to death, lol.)
“in the OT, for instance”
In six plus hours of film….interesting.
Fair enough. Let’s look at how many times Han escaped from deep holes in each of the 3 films individually, without any explanation whatsoever…
ANH=0
TESB=0
RotJ=0
I rest my case.
So Poe Dameron is not Han Solo.
Glad we got that straightened out. *two thumbs up
No, Dameron is no Han, that’s for sure. And he should be dead too, since he got out of Jakku thanks to…the power of the Force, I guess.
Thanks to him being a most capable soldier, as stated in the crawl.
Lol, whaaat? The crawl describes Poe Dameron as Leia’s “most daring pilot”. That’s not the same as her “most capable soldier”. I mean, it’s not even close, lol. Moreover, being a daring pilot wouldn’t automatically give Poe the resources and skills needed to find his way to a ship on Jakku.
This is why I would’ve liked to see how the guy managed to escape Tatooine v2.0, because the feat would’ve been hard any which way you wish to look at it. It would’ve also made for an interesting scene…much more interesting than seeing Han, Chewie, Rey and Finn being chased all over the place by some giant squiddy things, for instance.
The fact that he DID get off the planet and back in time to lead the assault at Maz’s castle is enough to show just how resourceful and good he is. The actual details are better left to a comic on-shot or the novelization.
It would be, if it were shown how the hell the guy got off world, to begin with. Otherwise, it’s just a cheap cop-out, a HUGE deus ex machina, and terribly lazy writing.
Actual details pertaining to a situation created in a film that should be solved in said film belong to the actual film, not to a book or comic based on the movie. People shouldn’t be forced to buy any book only to learn stuff that belongs on the movie screen, as had always been the case with every single Star Wars film prior to TFA.
In your opinion I guess, but you seem to have issues with it for not being what you wanted it to be to begin with, so it really doesn’t matter. You complain and nitpick about things that have been addressed on screen. Other people obviously don’t see it that way and no amount of you pointing out things that aren’t true or ignoring things that weren’t how you wanted them is going to change that.
Poe’s escape was not addressed on the film. Ditto for Rey’s sudden ability to pull off complex mind tricks. This is not my opinion, it is a fact.
Besides, I am not complaining. I’m merely pointing out some of the film’s missing details, from a mature standpoint. I never said I don’t like TFA or that the film sucks because of these details. On the contrary, the film is good, but it could’ve been better if some of these wrinkles had been ironed out.
Got to know the difference between a troll (see PT haters, for instance) and a neutral observation of a film’s shortcomings. Plus this “Let’s crucify Lucas for the PT” but “Praise Lord Abrams for his perfection” is a ridiculous double-standard. Abrams’ film may be better than the PT (or 2 thirds of it for my taste, because I like RotS much better than TFA), but the guy should be measured with the same stick as his predecessor.
Doesn’t Poe give a line about how he got off the planet. They clearly address that he did.
Lol, no, he didn’t. Poe just told Finn that he woke up and went looking for him, but Finn was nowhere to be found. Then Poe (or Kasdan and/or Abrams, I should say) conveniently changed the subject by noting that Finn was wearing his jacket.
That was the extent of Poe’s explanation about his escape from Jakku.
-if thats your definition of a “mary sue” then we should chuck half or more of the characters in the history of fiction into the bin.
-we saw at the beginning and was later explained by finn that he found out under fire that he couldn’t kill for the first order and had to get away.
-kylo is someone that fell under the influence of the darkside at a young age yet was conflicted because the light still called to him. you can call that whiny if you want but to others its called conflict.
-finally, to everyone demanding everything be explained in the first film i’d suggest you read up on the three act structure.
Don’t you understand that we HAVE to know every detail about how Poe got off of Jakku! That actually matters to the overall story! (sarcasm)
It wouldn’t matter to the story, if Poe didn’t show up to save Han, Finn and Chewie as a HUGE deus ex machina during the attack at Maz’s castle.
Thing is impartiality is needed to judge a film from an adult perspective, as opposed to thinking with the mind of a 7-yr. old who drools at anything thrown at them, as long as it has the words Star Wars on it.
I see what you’re saying, but really it doesn’t bother me.
“I got off of the planet so now I’m back”
There, it’s been explained. Further explanation is fun, but not necessary.
Well, if this doesn’t bother you, I don’t see why you’d reply to my post. TBH, it doesn’t bother me either. It’s just lazy, terrible writing. All I’m doing is pointing this out.
Um, okay. I find it interesting that you don’t care, yet you took the time to comment and to call it lazy an terrible, but okay.
Lazy and terrible are adjectives, not insulting words. Both are perfectly valid to describe situations like this. Grownups can like a film and still recognize it’s shortcomings. You’ll see this for yourself in a few years when you reach adulthood, kid.
“then we should chuck half or more of the characters in the history of fiction into the bin.”
…We kinda already do.
Just because characters in other fantasy/sci-fi stories may be poorly written that doesn’t mean I’ll give a free pass to Rey’s Mary Sue-ness. Again, till I get a reasonable explanation on this, I will continue seeing the girl as a Mary Sue, period.
Oh, Finn couldn’t face the heat, yet he was part of an elite assault team partaking in an extremely important, sensitive mission? Well, then his supervisors weren’t very smart then, if they didn’t see this coming during the guy’s training. Then again, NOT one member of the First Order proved to be very smart. So that may explain it.
Kylo was conflicted? So fucking what? Vader was just as conflicted, if not more so, when he fought Obi-Wan in Ep. III. That didn’t stop him from giving a FULL-FLEDGED Jedi Master a good run for his money. Training’s got nothing to do with emotional turmoil.
Kylo was supposed to have been trained in the ways of the Force for about 20 years when he faced Rey. Even if the girl was able to beat him in the end (because he was injured, after all) it should’ve never been such a one-sided affair, especially after what Kylo showed earlier in the film.
Who the fuck demanded everything to be explained in the first film? I was CLEARLY speaking of situations that developed in REAL TIME during the film. Before telling me to read up on the 3 act structure (or anything else, for that matter) go improve on your reading skills first. Then maybe, just maybe, you’ll be able to understand the differences between what must be revealed as the film progresses and what must be revealed in the next act or 2.
And finally, everything you said is based on YOUR understanding of the film, not mine or anyone else’s. And opinions are obviously not etched in stone, not to mention that your poor lack of understanding renders your opinion completely null from a mature, adult perspective.
i like that you keep tossing out mary sue in lue of actual evidence. one person(who leached off the name of his waaay more talented father) started this faux argument and others on the internet latched on without thinking for themselves. well i got another term for you: protagonist. usually it involves someone at a low point in there life, learns they have a higher purpose or power and go on a journey that has ups and downs and usually leads them to overcoming a great obstacle. sound familiar? if we followed the advice of your ilk we have a bunch of untalented uninteresting heroes. and i wouldn’t want to watch those films.
btw, i like that you go on a profanity laced tirade about a fictional movie and then claim the mature, adult high ground.
Want to talk about protagonists? Fine, let’s do that.
Any protagonist that starts out knowing it all in the Hero’s Journey is a Mary Sue/Marty Stu. I didn’t come up with these words to describe them, actually. This is a known fact of storytelling. So if you’ve got a problem with it, take it to the people who came up with the term.
Lol, what advice? I haven’t given any advice. Much less have I spoken of what makes a character interesting or talented.
But if you truly believe that a know-it-all, who can do no wrong, who can speak several tongues, who can be an ace pilot (even though she’s grown up in an environment where she’d be lucky to know how to read and write) and more importantly, who can pull tricks that take lots of time to master and practice (with no apparent explanation for it) is talented and interesting, then no wonder you have such problems understanding what people are saying and distorting their words.
k.
If you take the S off the word “she” in your statement of an uninteresting character, you have Luke…
“know-it-all, who can do no wrong, who can speak several tongues, who can
be an ace pilot (even though he’s grown up in an environment where he’d be lucky to know how to read and write) and more importantly, who
can pull tricks that take lots of time to master and practice”
Luke didn’t speak several tongues (he needed his X-wing’s computer to translate R2’s messages, for instance). He was an ace pilot, (he used to pilot his T-16 all the time, he’s his father’s son, and we know Anakin was the ONLY human who could race a pod). And finally, Luke didn’t start pulling complex Jedi mind tricks till after his thorough training under Yoda.
Oh, and I never called Rey an “uninteresting” character. I see her as a huge Mary Sue till now (hopefully Rian Johnson will change this), but that doesn’t mean a Mary Sue or a Marty Stu is uninteresting.
Luke blocked laser blasts blindfolded in one day of meeting Obi-Wan.
A day that consisted of repairing a droid’s arm, taking Kenobi home from the Drundland Wastes, picking up a lightsaber for 10 seconds, taking Kenobi to Anchorhead while stopping to pick up some dead Jawas, return home to see burning parental figures, then picking Kenobi back up to Mos Eisley, getting assaulted by some ugly murderers, selling his speeder and all of a sudden blocking laser blasts blindfolded out of nowhere.
Yeah, he did. But so did Younglings in AotC. That’s just a reflexive thing, not as complex as clouding someone’s mind and hypnotizing them into doing your bidding. This isn’t brain surgery. In real life, anyone can elude a blow through reflexes. Hypnotizing someone, on the other hand, takes time, preparation, practice and patience.
Yep, Luke did all those things. But you don’t need the Force to fix up some droid’s arm, to drive a landspeeder, to fool around with a lightsaber (see Finn), to incinerate dead Jawas, to see your foster parents burning, to pick up someone on your ride, to get your ass kicked by some thugs in a cantina, or to sell your ride.
Just don’t lie to try to get your worthless point across: Luke didn’t block the remote’s blasts from out of nowhere. He got torched several times before blocking ONE SINGLE shot. Plus he had a JEDI MASTER right next to him, guiding and counseling him.
Didn’t see any Jedi Masters around when Rey used the mind trick on Daniel Craig, though…But apparently, you and I watched different versions of ANH and TFA. Either that, or you hate ANH and love TFA. Take your pick.
Haha. Right, I’ll pick both, because they’re both good movies.
Luke also didn’t have a dark Jedi poking around in his brain, or a Force vision brought on by contact to his father’s lightsaber – which kind of makes you wonder, perhaps Rey was already more in tune with the Force than Luke was, or the Force was reaching out to Rey more forcefully than Luke, which now a nice little logic, ain’t it? Ha!
Nah, that just may a special trait of Rey’s: her sensibility to set off the visions when she touched the Skywalker laser sword.
Curious how this never happened in any previous SW film. I can totally see it now: Obi-Wan and Anakin getting blasted at the Geonosis arena, when the newly arrived Jedi hurled a couple of lightsabers their way, ’cause of the visions that the weapons produced the minute they touched them. That would’ve been hilarious, lol.
Where in the movie did they say he had been training in the Force for 20 years when he faced Rey?
This wasn’t mentioned on the film. But it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that Luke started training Ben just a few years prior to TFA. Actually, since the character must be in his late 20s, early 30s, I daresay that my calculations were wrong. His training must’ve started more than 20 years ago.
Wow, you’re taking some huge leaps in logic with that. Pablo Hidalgo has hinted that his fall doesn’t coincide with Rey being left on Jakku and may have happened very recently. Nowhere in ANYTHING is there ANY evidence that Ben has been trained for over 20 years. Also I believe it’s been confirmed that he was in his late 20’s. I guess we’ll find out some things in the new Leia novel won’t we?
I’ve never said Kylo Ren’s fall coincided with Rey’s exile. In fact, I don’t think both events have to be related, only because the most common theory about Rey’s origins is that she was Luke’s apprentice and/or daughter. While it makes sense to think this, it’s still a theory, not a fact.
Kylo Ren must be 28, 29 in TFA, yes. This is exactly what leads me to believe that his training could’ve easily started 20-25 years prior. It’s not far-fetched to think that Luke could’ve started training his nephew when Ben was 5-10 years old.
Actually, this makes a lot more sense than to think Ben’s training started when he was older. The guy had to have some control over the Force to help Snoke wipe out Luke’s apprentices. And besides, it doesn’t seem like Luke’s been gone for a few months or years by the time of TFA.
This is entirely logical, actually. You’re just arguing for the sake of it, especially since I did use the word “supposed” when I mentioned how long Kylo was in training. I didn’t claim that he had been in training for any specific period of time. Supposed is synonyms with assumed. Got to know the language and think before speaking.
Its logical – but based on assumptions. I guess that’s fine, its why Kasdan likes to trust the audience like adults – we can fill in gaps with logic….like how Poe is capable enough of a hero to make a phone call to get a ride off Jakku.
Lol, no. That’s not trusting the audience like adults (that’s what a George R.R. Martin or a Mario Puzo have always done, but Star Wars is for all audiences, not just adults). Trusting the audience like adults is dropping hints so that the audience can figure things out, not having some guy magically pop up at the right time to save the day. That’s just lazy writing, period.
Oh, and Poe’s phone was taken from him by the Phone-confiscating-stormtrooper when he was taken to Kylo’s Star Destroyer. I know Kylo ended up as a shell of the guy we saw at first, but he’s still capable enough of a villain to confiscate his prisoners’ possessions.
Finn’s reasons for defecting WERE shown, he could not take the murder of innocents for First Order gain. Any more time spent on this would have been a WASTE of time better used for other aspects of the plot. Its not rocket science here: FINN HAS MORALS. Period.
“Finn’s reasons for defecting WERE shown, he could not take the murder of innocents for First Order gain. Any more time spent on this would have been a WASTE of time better used for other aspects of the plot. Its not rocket science here: FINN HAS MORALS. Period.”
That’s fine, but that makes it plot-driven, not character-driven. It’s not rocket science here.
Lol, right. The guy had been part of the 1st Order since he could remember, but he never knew what his superiors were capable of till he saw what happened on that village in Jakku.
Well, then the guy’s even more of a gullible moron than Jar Jar Binks. And that just doesn’t make for an interesting character. Wish I could say “nice try” to you, but frankly, this justification makes even less sense than Finn not knowing what he was part of as a Stormtrooper since long before Jakku.
Finn’s reasons weren’t just shown, they were actually explained:
“I’m not Resistance. I’m not a hero. I’m a Stormtrooper. Like all of them, I was taken from a family I’ll never know. And raised
to do one thing. But my first battle, I made a choice. I wasn’t going to kill for them. So I ran.”
Why take part in the battle at all then, and not run before he was sent on the mission to begin with?
Faulty logic maybe logical, but it’s still flawed nonetheless.
No real reason to run before, as he wasn’t yet exposed to people being slaughtered, and friends of his bleeding out on him. He was pretty clearly stunned, and sick right afterwards, but made his decision the second he was back aboard the destroyer.
Nah, sorry, but I don’t buy it.
I mean, I’m sure Stormtrooper training must have been harsh. And Finn was fully trained. Phasma said as much in the film. He had to know what the 1st Order was capable of.
It would’ve been easy to illustrate Finn’s wish to run when Phasma asked him to submit his blaster for inspection. All it would take for the audience to know why he was doing this was for him to tell Poe he realized that, as soon as it was discovered that his weapon wasn’t jammed or something, he’d be put on trial and probably executed.
Ditto for Poe’s escape. Guy comes back around, he watches the smoke on Niima Station from afar, he comes to the place, takes advantage of the commotion stirred by Rey & Finn’s escape, finds a ship and flies away from Jakku. It would’ve even been funny if the ship belonged to Plutt, for instance.
These 2 explanations wouldn’t have taken more than 2, 3 minutes of screen time, but that “genius” J.J. Abrams preferred to show us Rathtars gobbling up mobsters in Han’s new ride as opposed to smoothing out some of these edges on his film.
So Finn didn’t have morals BEFORE the attack on the Jakku village? OK, got it.
Oh, and him telling Poe something like, “Yeah, I need a pilot, and I need him fast! I’m about to be court-martialed and executed for refusing to obey the order to shoot the villagers. So come on, get us out of here!” during their brief exchange before stealing the TIE fighter wouldn’t have hurt or taken a long time.
See, storytelling takes certain talents that not everyone
possesses: they’re called intelligence and creativity. Got to know how to make the best use of the devices at your disposal. Spending time showing Rathtars running all over Han’s new ride is NOT the best way to put said talents to use, for instance.
Good thing there are two more movies to go…
I got the impression that Rey had some sort of training before she was abandoned. Why can’t she be that powerful? After Kylo tried to read her mind, she figured out she could resist and that she could weild that power as well. Then she used it on the stormtrooper to escape.
Finn worked in sanitation until that point. That was the first action he had seen and they slaughtered an entire village. Very plausable… I would defect too.
I believe the book explained how Poe got back to the resistance?? But yeah that was definitely a question during the movie.
And Kylo, you said it. He wasn’t fully trained. He had a lot of conflict in him between the dark and light. He needed to kill his father to cement his path down the dark side.
There ya go 🙂
Everyone’s got their own theory on Rey’s sudden Force-awesomeness, yeah. But that’s irrelevant. The point is anyone who knows their SW is wondering about this, precisely because we’ve seen how hard it is to master the Force.
Yes, Finn told Han that he worked in sanitation. I don’t recall him saying that’s what he was doing immediately before he took part on the attack on the Jakku village, though.
If he was, then what the hell was a janitor doing as part of a strike team on a mission of the utmost importance for the 1st Order? Didn’t Hux have more qualified troops to send on this mission? In that case, I don’t see how the 1st. Order could beat the Resistance, especially if/when Luke comes back and/or trains Rey proper.
I know the books explain a gazillion things. But as I’ve said countless times before, buying a book shouldn’t be a requirement to understand a movie. I didn’t need to read a single EU book, for instance, to understand what was going on in the 6 previous SW films.
Yes, I did say Kylo wasn’t fully trained, but I think it’s safe to assume that he’d been training in the ways of the Force for 20, 25 years at least. I seriously doubt that Luke started training him a few years prior to TFA.
At his age, Obi-Wan was already training Anakin, Vader was in his prime, making the galaxy tremble at the mere mention of his name, and Luke was already a Jedi Master too, I’m sure. It just boggles the mind to think that he’d be so far behind in his training.
This means the guy’s not as powerful as all that or he’s plain stupid. That’s exactly what I meant to say when I noted that his introduction hurt him in the long run: he certainly seemed much too powerful for someone not fully trained in the ways of the Force.
+1 on Rey. Despite angry denials, she is a massive, MASSIVE Mary Sue – the best fighter, knows everytihng there is to know about every piece of FO technology, speaks every language in the galaxy, knows and can handle the Falcon better than Han, has not a single personality flaw, all the classic characters love her unreservedly for no readily apparent reason, and has an innate grasp of the Force superior to both Luke at the end of his journey in RotJ, and Ben who had spent his life training and fighting. Ridley is an appealing actress, but they NEED to do some doctoring on that character because I can’t watch her be perfect for another two films.
.
Now, on Kylo, I think that’s really the point – he IS a whiny, insecure, partly trained jerk, pushing himself to give himself fully to the dark side when he clearly has temptations to the light. I’m okay with that if they take him somewhere interesting in the next film.
I truly hope Rey goes through some major growing pains in VIII, a la Anakin and Luke in AotC and TESB. Otherwise, you’re absolutely correct: the character will be a major fail, yep.
Kylo was going through a major inner struggle, of course. But my problem with the character was the way he was build up for the first half of the film. TBH, the change in him, from the moment he froze Poe’s blast to the moment Rey turned the tables on him during her mind probe, was a little too steep for my taste.
Maybe it’s just me, but I would’ve preferred for Kylo to be toned down a bit at the beginning. This way, the change in him wouldn’t have felt as radical and abrupt as it did.
Your take on where Kylo went wrong is funny – it absolutely coincides with my own feeling that the film in general goes immediately, and badly off the rails after the attack on Maz’s castle.
Agreed. First half of the film was amazing. But I think Abrams and Kasdan had a little too much on their plate for the second half to work. Maybe if the film had been some 15, 20 mins. longer this could’ve been avoided. And it wouldn’t have much longer than previous SW films this way, either (2:30, 2:35 hours long).
That’s why the Dark Knight works despite Joker needing to be a Sith Lord to influence everybody into doing exactly what his plan implies (save the boat finale). But we can be so mesmerized by a character that those little plot weaknesses don’t really affect us.
i was hopeful for the new cast going in, but they blew me away by the end. great job of casting and writing. lucasfilm is in great hands with kennedy. 🙂
Yes, although the writing let them down a bit in the 2nd and 3rd acts, it’s a good ensemble.
She’s not a hack like Abrams but she definetly road Mr. Spielburgo’s coattails from nearly day 1 to get where she is today. No one would know her name today had she not gotten in with him early on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWxcnl8PL_o
I have faith in Kennedy. What I have no faith in is the Mouse. The Mouse has openly said that LFL, as much as SW is theirs, is just going ot have to bend over and take it if the Mouse decides they don’t like a story direction LFL wants to take.
please post evidence, otherwise i got some tin foil for ya hat.
One of Iger’s interviews during the production of TFA. He literally said in so many words that ultimately it’s Disney’s call, not LFL’s what happens in the SW story. Go figure out how google works, your approval means nothing to me, and I’m not your fucking research assistant. Figure it out.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/42/22/ef/4222efd2cc3a46bbcf7543d21435ee4c.jpg
And I smell salt.
I have faith in the Mouse only in that thus far they’ve been very open in letting Marvel Studios do their own thing, up and to splitting the Marvel Branches into two separate companies so that Feige doesn’t have to deal with Papa Ike’s idiotic (It’s not what I want so I’m going to throw it in the shitter even though it’ beneficial to everyone including myself) money decisions. If Iger lets Kennedy run LFL relatively autonomously as it seems to be so far, we’re in good hands.
Yeah, No arguments here on that one. At least Eisner has a few original ideas, Some of which were pretty good. Iger’s little more than a glorified corporate raider buying every IP in sight.
Curious that anyone would call TFA “character-driven.” I didn’t see anything that was character-driven, I just saw a bunch of one-note characters doing stuff for no reason other than that the plot demanded it. Not that there’s anything wrong with that–especially not in an action movie for kids–but that doesn’t make it “character-driven.”
The day that Kylo Ren is called “one-note” is the day that hell freezes over. Please get some sense.
Yes, Kylo Ren is a one-note character. Please get some sense and actually look up what terms like “character-driven” and “plot-driven” mean, and what the difference between the two is.
Well this is Awkward…
Ignoring the fact that TFA was a part of a trilogy i.e. these characters have two more films to be fleshed out and expanded upon, it was not plot-driven, it was character driven, the conflicts within Kylo and Rey for example were pushing the film forward, the plot was really just a backdrop for what those two, mainly, were going through. TFA focused on the situation between the characters more so than what was happening with the non-character elements. Put your rulers away boys.
Sigh. The “conflict within” those characters was solely there to move to put forward. That, again, doesn’t make it character-driven.
Take Kylo Ren. Why was he conflicted in the first place? We know he’s conflicted, because they *told* us, but w don’t know anything about the whys and whereforths about that conflict–and most importantly, we don’t know anything about him that made us understand why he did what he did (and that would have made it character-driven). Instead, again, we’re told he’s conflicted, he does a bunch of stuff for some reason, then he kills his dad. Why does he decide to kill his dad? Because he’s lured by the dark side, and he’s ever so conflicted… But primarily because the plot demands it. Yeah, character-driven? I don’t think so.
I know, right? I mean, we’re shown he’s the big bad because of his opening introduction at the battle, angrily murders a senior rebel we’ve only just been introduced to, then we find out he went bad and killed off all the jedi for no reason we’re told about, and then later kills Obi Wan for no reas….oh, shit, hang on…
LMAO! Bravo again!
Thank you.
Thanks for this deductive and logical argument. Now prepare yourself, TUD is going to plan an all out assault on your internet character.
TUD be like:
“How dare you Criteaque TFA, that move is perfect. If Jesus was a movie, it’d be Ep. 7. Sinless in all its glory. And your the written Romans, trying to kill Jesus.”
Ok, all hyperbole and joking aside (I kinda have an issue with that dudes constant yapping and excessive high indeed comments on anything approaching honest criticism of Ep. 7), your analysis makes a lot of sense.
This movie was plot drive (a retread designed to bring fans back to where it all started). They created some complex characters, but they hardly drove the movie. Most questions were indeed left unanswered. We really have no idea why Kylo is so “torn” or what his daddy issues stem from.
Bravo sir.
Tim, you and so many others continue to fail to grasp the fact that this was one film in a trilogy, did you really expect these characters to be well defined in the first third? Seriously, your complaints have little merit when they’re hanging on that kind of mindset..wait a bit and more will be revealed, it could be in a novel, comic or what have you, point is it’s only just the beginning..have faith. 😉
nobody here ever said the movie is perfect. the people that ceaseless tear it apart do get a tiresome though. and whats funny is that i’m starting to understand what the prequel fan has felt all these years. 😉
Exactly. I’m perfectly fine with admitting that TFa had problems. I’m not exactly sure where some people get the idea that I think TFA is the greatest movie ever or something. It’s not even my favorite Star wars movie, lol.
Sigh. It’s the first film, it’s the first time we have seen these characters, are you serious? It was barely plot-driven, tell me something, were you wearing sunglasses when you watch that movie? No it wasn’t because the plot demanded he killed his father, his rise to the dark side demanded it, his training, his personality, his character. Rey has moved forward with a new journey, Finn left the First Order and he basically unites the new trio of heroes. The plot provided the scenery in which these characters were moving forward. Your ignoring the complete obvious, this film was. in the most part, designed to introduce a new set of characters to the audience, why would the plot be more important in this case? Maybe in the next film for sure.
I agree with your assessment but I think Rey is character good. She is motivated to wait for her family to return, but she also wants to move on with her life. She cares about Finn and wants him to come with her to fight in the rebellion, but she’s conflicted when he chooses to go do something else (briefly).
Deffo’ a Bb . 😉
You’re speaking to TUD, if you say anything remotely negative about Ep. 7, he is there to lodge digital missiles at you. The fusillade usually falls short of logical, but he’ll do so anyways. Expecting him to understand your actually point to of view is going to probably be fruitless. It’s true.
Hello there, just cruisin’ ’round the comments. BTW, I have feelings. Just saying.
And other commenters have feelings that you should take into account, too.
I don’t insult people though. Nor do I talk about them behind their backs. But whatever, that’s fine. You guys are welcome to dislike me for no good reason.
Jesus, do you ever just let someone have a perspective without your high minded defenses?
I’m new here, but obviously TUD is a well known member? He’s just an extremely passionate person. Although if you don’t want your love for Star Wars to be crushed I would suggest staying away from the comment boards at least.
See, you get me.
I smell some salt in the air.
Agreed
I thought the characters were ok, they just didn’t get that many development scenes. Rey probably got the most scenes where you’re just getting to know her character.
But in the scenes they DID get, the characters really showed and you got a pretty good sense of their personalities.
The characters aren’t that groundbreaking, not like “I’m rescuing myself” princess leia, no, Rey, Finn and Poe were much more normal, easy to grasp characters, but they ARE characters, and they DO behave like people.
Loved the new characters. Star Wars is in good hands with these new actors and directors. Can’t wait to see how each characters story unfolds in the next two films.
The new characters is the only thing to really like about the Ep. 7 script. I wished they didn’t place those needs over the need of the old characters, especially Luke.
I think it was about good, but Carrie Fisher needed ONE sassy scene to show her attitude, and Luke needed one line of dialogue. If they just added those two things, it would be good enough, literally, those 2 scenes would have completed the film.
The words sound good, but so far her “actions” don’t seem to align with them. Meaning that TFA left many plot holes open, in terms of character background and motivations. I sincerely hope epVIII manages to fill the gap, but it’s not easy, since these questions should have been resolved from the early interactions of the new and older characters, namely from TFA scenes.
I don’t think character motivations/backgrounds can be plot holes. Care to give an example?
-What is the F.O.? What’s their motivation, 30 years (not 1 or 5) after the empire’s fall?
They are certainly not the governing organization of the galaxy… (Who is?)
-What is the Resistance? A small group, with its presence existing only to oppose to the F.O.?
-Why is there even a MAP to the hiding Luke, what did he want to do with it?
-What is the character background of Han and Leia, what happened to them all these years? We saw them, and it was like we knew everything, so, ok, no big deal.
Their re-interaction was very, very simple.
-How can R2-D2 “not being himself” since Luke left? Decided to turn himself off? Ok, maybe that can be explained in a normal way, idk.
And the cornerstone of my thought:
-What does Kylo Ren (not Snoke) want? What did Vader even start? Doesn’t he know Vader’s ending story? There is just no way.
Most of those questions are answered.
Exactly.
-Their motivations is that they are evil and they want to rule. Same as the Empire. This is obvious.
-A military offshoot of the New Republic. The opeing crawl explains this.
-He either used it to get to the last Jedi temple, or he wanted to find Rey. We don’t really need to know the exact answer, but we might in 8. This is the beauty of sequels and the 3-act structure.
-They were together. Now they’re not because of Kylo. This is also readily apparent.
-he was “not himself” because droids have emotions in the Star Wars universe. He is also shown to be off. Derp.
-Kylo wants to be evil an rule the galaxy, just as Vader started (with the Empire). And he actually does know Vader’s story. He sees it as one small moment of weakness in the otherwise spotless record of a great man.
My opinion is that these answers you provide are way too simple for Star Wars as i know it.
They are as simple as the idea of having Death Star #3.
I agree with the last but, but TFA was one of those movies that’s too busy always moving forward with big set pieces to stop and do some character development… The new character are great, but we didn’t have much time at all to explore them because the movie was too wrapped up in recreating a New Hope in my opinion. But I get that’s it’s only the first movie in a trilogy. I just hope the future movies succeed where TFA didn’t.
Although SW didn’t rush so headlong from action beat to action beat that it didn’t leave the characters some room to breath. TFA was so concerned about ‘having fun’ that I think the pacing suffers a bit as there’s virtually no variation in the energy – it’s all at 11.
Except for Han’s death. Oh, Han’s death.
Don’t spoil it for the two people on planet earth who haven’t yet seen TFA.
Or for that matter Luke’s reveal which slams on the breaks and just brings the film to a grinding, shuddering stop rather than a conclusion.
Oh, okay. I guess we know how you feel about that, lol.
It has been known for years that third anthology movie being written by Simon Kinberg.
I heard they changed the third anthology movie when they kicked Trank off of it. I’m hoping / praying it’s a Kenobi spin-off.
If that is the case, Boba movie would be dead.
As far as I’m aware, the Boba movie IS dead.
It better be a Kenobi spinoff. That’s the only character spinoff that makes sense.
Yep. The fans want it, Ewan wants it. Why not? They’ve got nothing to lose. hell, you could even bring back Liam Neeson as a Qui-gon force ghost.
I totally agree. The idea of a Han Solo movie, let alone someone else besides Harrison Ford playing Han Solo, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The only established character that would lend itself to a Star Wars stand alone movie is Obi Wan Kenobi and the only actor to play him is Ewan McGregor.
I think James Gunn should do an anthology film, seeing as he already made a good star wars movie without even using the same galaxy.
Exactly. During all of Guardians of the Galaxy, I was thinking
“This is Star Wars. I like it.”
I’m nor trying to come at this as a hater, but its hard not to laugh. Literally the only new character in TFA with more than one dimension was kylo ren.
Yes, I agree. But you should work on the plot a little as well, and not just reshash the same thing over and over again with new characters.
This interview explains why basically the only big-budget movies I like have her involvement, anything else tends to suck.