Kylo Ren’s Table of Ashes in Star Wars: The Force Awakens Explained!

kylo-ren-table

Movies are meant to be fun, and perhaps no movie has ever delivered as much fun to its audience as Star Wars: The Force Awakens,  which did so in spades. Despite my endless multiple theatrical viewings, endless discussions with friends, and watching and reading analysis of nearly every aspect of the film on the planet, I still have a few unanswered questions. One of those questions was finally answered by none other than Director J.J. Abrams…

 

Most fans have been trying to figure what was that table full of ashes where Kylo Ren rests his helmet? Just what was that ash? Is it possible that the ashes are from his grandfather Vader’s burning funeral pyre seen in Star Wars: Return of the Jedi?

 

Entertainment Weekly recently caught up with Star Wars: The Force Awakens director J.J. Abrams and the answer was delivered while talking about the deleted scenes from the film.

 

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“Sometimes bits and pieces of one scene end up being something that you use in another scene that you didn’t expect,” Abrams explained in a recent interview. “That’s always kind of fun, when you realize that something you’ve shot actually has a use you didn’t expect.”

Asked for an example, Abrams pointed to the scene in Starkiller Base where Adam Driver’s Kylo Ren is interrogating Daisy Ridley’s Rey and finally takes off his mask. The moment where he puts his mask down into that table of ash was meant for an early sequence.

“The backstory is, that that table has the ashes of the enemies he’s killed,” Abrams says. “That moment was actually shot for, and meant to be used in, the scene where he was talking to the Vader mask.”

 

In other words, that table of ash was originally in Ren’s private quarters. And the fact that he incinerates and preserves the remains of his foes adds a new, eerie dimension to his Dark Side nostalgia — and hoarding tendencies.

 

Star-Wars-7-Trailer-3-Kylo-Ren-Helmet

It also means we almost saw Driver’s face much earlier in the film, when he stares into the molten mask of Vader and vows to finish what his grandfather started.

 

“He originally had his mask off the first time we shot that scene. Then we reshot it with his mask on, but we had that shot which I loved and thought was so cool of the mask being slammed down into that ash,” Abrams says. “So that shot was stolen from the scene that we had changed and put into the scene with Rey.”

In drafts of the script, Ren always removed his mask to show his face to Rey. The only difference was what he did with the helmet once it was off. (We can all relate to that awkard interrogation situation: Where do you place your terrifying black visor after revealing the unexpected humanity beneath?)

“He used to place his mask gingerly onto a piece of the set, which was incredibly unimpressive,” Abrams says with a laugh. “So this moment made it a much cooler beat.”

 

I’ve got more questions, too. How Did Maz Kanata get Luke’s Lightsaber? Who are Rey’s parents? Are they finally going to let Mark Hamill speak? This is the first movie in a trilogy, after all, and raising questions is one of its main jobs. I suppose we’ll have to wait to find out.

May the Force be with you…

 

+ posts

166 thoughts on “Kylo Ren’s Table of Ashes in Star Wars: The Force Awakens Explained!

  • April 5, 2016 at 9:17 pm
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    Awesome

  • April 5, 2016 at 9:21 pm
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    Still think the first time he should’ve taken off the helmet was when Han confronted him.

    • April 5, 2016 at 10:50 pm
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      Yep.

    • April 6, 2016 at 12:34 am
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      I think he did it at least partly because he was, in his own way… objecting to being called “a creature” in a mask.

      • April 6, 2016 at 4:11 am
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        He’s a villain. Why would he care about something like that? IMO, it made him look weak, both by exposing his humanity/insecurity and by having him reveal himself in response to her comment.

        How did removing his mask help him at all?

        • April 6, 2016 at 7:33 am
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          Something like this I presume.

          • April 7, 2016 at 6:08 am
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            Because emotions are bad.

          • April 14, 2016 at 8:51 pm
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            I’m surprised Kylo’s helmet doesn’t make automated crying sounds.

        • April 6, 2016 at 8:38 am
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          It made him look weak because he is weak. I think the movie tried to show him as a weak arrogant youngster.

          • April 14, 2016 at 8:36 pm
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            Yeah, but he also knew he was weak, so why would he go out of his way to expose this?

          • April 14, 2016 at 8:46 pm
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            I don’t think he knew he was weak and much less weaker than Rey. He underestimated her, that why he was so arrogant. He also thinks he is mastered after killing hia father and will be able to fight with full conviction.

          • April 14, 2016 at 8:46 pm
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            I don’t think he knew he was weak and much less weaker than Rey. He underestimated her, that is why he was so arrogant. He also thinks he is mastered after killing his father and that would make him stronger but didn’t.

          • April 15, 2016 at 12:09 am
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            I mean “weak” as in vulnerable and insecure. You could see it in his eyes when he interrogated Rey in that room. Isn’t that one of the main reason why Kylo Ren wore a mask in the first place?
            Killing his father removed the last bit of light, but that’s a different issue from him losing to Rey. Her victory felt unearned. I think Rey should’ve kept running and defending herself until Kylo collapsed from Chewie’s shot. That way, both characters would still be treated with respect while letting them know that they need to train for the rematch.

          • April 15, 2016 at 12:26 am
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            I think it wasn’t a mask, it was a helmet and only reason he wears one is to avoid been wounded (you can see marks from battles on it, so he could be touched if not wearing it because he was not that strong).

            Remember there are things we still don’t know about Rey… And I bet Kylo won’t be a key character… Just my conjeture.

          • April 15, 2016 at 12:47 am
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            If Kylo’s helmet was only used to protect him in combat, why didn’t he put it back on before confronting Rey and Finn? And why did he need to use a voice modifier to make him sound badass rather than simply use his normal one?

          • April 15, 2016 at 1:12 am
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            The helmet protects not only from melee, also from toxics and poisons in the air. A helmet closed this way need some sort of system with a micro and makes sense he could change his voice to make it sound frightening… Again, all explanations point he is arrogant… He doesn’t put back his helmet because he doesn’t think Rey and Finn are any dangerous the same way a silly youngster would not put his helmet when racing because he is “too good to fall” in such an “easy circuit”.

            I think the problem is that you don’t see Kylo Ren, you see Darth Vader II and then yes, it is hard to believe. Maybe compare him with Anakin (who was another arrogant youngster). Kylo never gets even close to be strong as Darth Vader but yes to be as silly as Anakin was.

          • April 16, 2016 at 9:52 pm
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            I don’t see Kylo Ren as Vader. Vader needed the helmet as part of his breathing suit. Kylo needs it to be intimidating. Seeing how Rey was able to beat him earlier during interrogation, I don’t see why Kylo would underestimate her.

        • April 6, 2016 at 5:55 pm
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          Yes, he is a villain as of right now. He may not be one forever, and I for one hope he is not. Regardless of that, he is still human being, and I don’t imagine that most humans would like being compared to animals, creatures, monsters, etc.

          How it helped him, I don’t know yet. Maybe that will be found out in the future. However it helped or didn’t help, he seemed compelled to do it. I think a big point of Kylo Ren is the conflict between Dark and Light. I see him as “Grey”.

          • April 14, 2016 at 8:33 pm
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            We shouldn’t have to watch a sequel to explain why the villain did what he did in the present film. Kylo may not be a villain in the future, but his actions reflect who he is now. Removing his mask didn’t make any sense to me and didn’t seem to serve his interests. In fact, his eyes revealed his vulnerability. Wasn’t that one of the main reasons why he wore the mask in the first place?

    • April 6, 2016 at 4:34 am
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      I thought that interrogation scene was a perfect time to take the mask off. Great scene.

  • April 5, 2016 at 9:30 pm
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    Huh! I just sorta assumed that if he could score Vader’s helmet from Endor, he’d be able to get a few scoops of dear ol’ Gramps’ ashes too…creeping me out now that I know could be Luke’s younglings in there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzW727RY-ig

  • April 5, 2016 at 10:08 pm
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    classic JJ abrams worrying about things being “cool” instead of having meaning behind them- basically sums up TFA.

    • April 5, 2016 at 10:18 pm
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      Because 1 example (which you didn’t find yourself but had to wait for a report done by someone else to discover and share) is equivalent to being symbolic of a host of failures you. Makes sense.

      • April 5, 2016 at 10:29 pm
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        Yeah, no need to get butthurt and attack someone personally on this board- you are a great person.

        • April 5, 2016 at 10:39 pm
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          Don’t be so f**king dramatic. Nobody attacked you personally. And if that’s what bothers you, don’t make your opinion(s) public for people to respond to. You said something a lot more biting than LastOfTheDeji said to you. Calm down, Jimmy.

          • April 5, 2016 at 10:43 pm
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            nice. wonderful people at this site.

    • April 5, 2016 at 11:06 pm
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      Classic J Needle. Using an interesting story about the creative process to prove an unrelated point.

  • April 5, 2016 at 10:19 pm
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    Will we ever see the deleted scene?

    • April 6, 2016 at 5:51 am
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      I’m guessing it was never shot, or only partially. a lot of the scenes that were “deleted” from TFA were never completed. The snowspeeder sequence still has placeholder green screen effects and whatnot.

  • April 5, 2016 at 10:35 pm
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    Neat. One of those cool facts that doesn’t really change the movie, but adds one more layer to the character. I just assumed they were ashes from Vader’s endor pyre given the rest of Kylo’s obsession

  • April 5, 2016 at 10:43 pm
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    I always thought they were Vader’s but he probably wouldn’t descreate them like that.

    Also, I think Kylo is the stereotype of a Millineal – Was born to great privilege, His Parents live in fear of him, Has an exaggerated view of his own abilities, holds a regressive view of history, is prone to temper tantrums when things aren’t going his way, and he ultimately chokes in the end when he has to face the fact that he’s not prepared for life nor the special little snowflake he was told he was. I think he works much better in TFA as a satirical villain than a straight up one like Vader. Kasdan had to have been thinking that when he wrote him considering his own age.

    • April 5, 2016 at 10:48 pm
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      I thought it was Vader’s ashes also. As far as the desecration, I would think it would be like he was geting power from Vader’s ashes. That’s how I always took it.

      • April 6, 2016 at 2:59 am
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        Good point. I’m going with that till proven otherwise.

        • April 6, 2016 at 5:50 am
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          Doesn’t this article prove otherwise?

          • April 6, 2016 at 6:14 am
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            Shhh.

        • April 6, 2016 at 7:26 am
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          How much you want to bet Lucasfilm turns around and makes those ashes Vader’s in the future. I sense a retcon coming soon. 😉

          • April 6, 2016 at 9:05 am
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            I’m ashamed I never saw that coming till now. : ) I’d much rather have the food rations. Now that’s a gimmick I can see everyone paying for.

          • April 7, 2016 at 6:07 am
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            As long as it’s not in a book, it’s not canon.

    • April 6, 2016 at 12:12 am
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      Aw look. Another Generation X stooge afraid that those younger than himself will ultimately play a bigger part in history than his generation’s sad attempt at ruining America. Just put the needle back in your arm, and quietly go back to be worthless. Thanks 😉

      • April 6, 2016 at 3:02 am
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        First of all, I never said what generation I belong too. Second, I said “stereotype”. Lastly, Clearly it hots a lot closer to the nerve than you would care to admit and you kinda just played to type.

      • April 6, 2016 at 4:33 am
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        As a millenial, I concur with Snark’s original statement. Ya’ll are getting way too strung up over this.

    • April 6, 2016 at 1:46 am
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      How does it feel to be like your parents and your parents’ parents, bitching about the next generation of young people? Like every generation before, soon even Millennials will start bitching about how the next generation sucks. Don’t be one of those assholes.

      • April 6, 2016 at 3:04 am
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        I never said it was MY view though it does hold true for certain individuals even if they are fictitious such as Kylo. I implied it was the writer’s. Also Anakin is a lot like a baby boomer as is Luke is a Gen Xer in terms of both positive and negative traits.

    • April 6, 2016 at 4:09 am
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      Snark Vader, that was just brilliant, thanks!

      • April 6, 2016 at 8:36 am
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        Anytime! I think the reason why his character was such a disappointment to some is because he was marketed as Vader 2.0 but when you think of him this way it makes a lot more sense. I’m surprised no one on the film has brought it up though I can’t be the only one to notice this.

      • April 6, 2016 at 8:39 am
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        It’s what I do, My friend. It’s still not my favorite SW film but it makes me appreciate it a little more now and oddly I now find him a bit more sympathetic.

    • April 6, 2016 at 5:55 am
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      Clearly you are not a Millineal!
      All nice said!
      But what you have written I think fits with the dark side of them.
      Now, thanks to you I have to reconsider my own theories about the character.
      Rey and Finn fit in the good side of them, well informed even if that information come from internet…
      Poe is X Generation, clearly.
      So if Han, Luke and Leia are Baby Boomers…
      (…)
      X Generation (the GOONIES) is clearly misrepresented in Star Wars… we can blame the PT as they were devoted to Silent Generation in the 90´s, when that time belonged to X.

      • April 6, 2016 at 8:44 am
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        I could be in middle school, I could be a senior citizen, I could be your own age. You never know on the interwebz but there are faults in every generation including my own.

        Exactly! So it’s not as one sided as people might think but it is really apparent with Kylo where he’s almost a walking stereotype which Kasdan had to be aware of considering he’s a boomer himself.

        I figured the OT cast are GenXers and the PT are Boomer’s. Yoda is the Greatest Generation if you really push the analogy. Someone should do a paper on it, If only so I could read someone else’s thoughts on it.

        • April 6, 2016 at 9:36 am
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          No, my point is that the PT are movies about the Greatest Generation, the Clone Wars can be interpreted as WW2, and the rise of the Empire would belong to the Cold War.

          So doing the PT, Star Wars missed a movie about X Generation, that is the 30 years gap between OT and this new trilogy, a generation story is lost: how Ben become Kylo, how Poe become that awesome pilot.

          The OT cannot be about GenXers (65-80) because in 78 they were 13 years the oldest, a not born the youngest, so there is not character formed yet. We could say that about ROTJ may be? That Is why I introduced the ewoks.

          • April 6, 2016 at 10:03 am
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            I think that’s what Lucas was sort of going for which is why he did the PT instead as there was no major global conflict in the 90’s to parallel. There is a generation before Gen X but after the boomers too as Obama is not considered a boomer.

          • April 6, 2016 at 10:30 am
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            Yes, Generations are too simply.
            What is someone born 81, 82? X? Millenial?
            Obama is a good example, he is more X then BBoomer.
            Probably Lucas as a BabyBoomer was more confident talking about his parents than his sons, Indiana Jones is an example of it. Also the oportunity of talking about Vader was there, free to use.
            But in that time there was also The Aviator, Saving Private Ryan, Schindler List… BBoomers made review of all that time, after all Vietnam movies in the 80s.

          • April 6, 2016 at 10:43 am
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            There’s conflicting definitions, Especially since most people have kids later now due to the widespread prevalence of contraception.

            He’s defiintely not etither too. Clinton and Bush II were clearly boomers but he’s somewhere between generations.

            Good point there. I think he started to feel of touch with the youth by the PT too.

            That’s true too. Like the OT cast, They refuse to go until they are dead.

          • April 6, 2016 at 11:08 am
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            Well, the OT cast missed their “best years” movies too. From 30s to 50s? Because the PTs.

            What now? all BBoomers, Trump, Hillary, Sanders. Hillary Clinton I think is 1947. Only Cruz is X.

            Well, it was the glorious war for USA, I cannot see a generation of movie makers making now a review of Vietnam. Even Tarantino made Glorious Bastards :))

          • April 6, 2016 at 11:15 am
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            I would have liked to have seen a 1986-1992 PT or even a 1995-2001 ST which could have worked.

            Sanders is a bit older than the rest to be considered a boomer like them. An X President won’t happen till next time unless the GOP goes to convention and picks one which isn’t very likely.

            You never know there, I guess.

          • April 6, 2016 at 11:32 am
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            VHS and the transition to Mall cinemas made timing different than now I guess.

            I see in Sanders many Boomer characteristics.

          • April 6, 2016 at 11:36 am
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            The Star Trek films of the late 80’s and early 90’s effects wise are how the OT would have gone had it been made then I think.

            He comes off as the most youthful candidate which is probably why,

          • April 6, 2016 at 12:09 pm
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            Probably Lucasfilm didn´t want to kill the goose golden eggs. That is a good thing.

            The 3 of them are out of the “usual” candidate. For good or bad.
            Any of them will an over 70 president, that´s is not possible where I live.

          • April 6, 2016 at 12:14 pm
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            Hope Disney doesn’t do it which is why they should have a break or at least for the saga episodes.

            Which is weird because till now they were getting younger over the past 30 years. There’s an age limit?

          • April 6, 2016 at 12:30 pm
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            …I have lost the count of the Avengers movies…

            No limit, but the eldest elected president in the last 40 years was 57, and most of them under 50. Between 40 and 50 is the usual age.

    • April 6, 2016 at 6:13 am
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      You posts have become so boring, I don’t even come here twice a day to put you in your place anymore.

      • April 6, 2016 at 8:57 am
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        Call me Snark Abrams then as clearly I can’t win. I’m now prepared for the very real possibility that I’m the only one that loves VII and everybody hates it.

        • April 6, 2016 at 2:23 pm
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          Nah, I love it, too.

          • April 7, 2016 at 9:38 am
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            Welcome to the minority of opinion.

          • April 7, 2016 at 1:54 pm
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            I like it. Less people and it’s cozy. Haters gonna hate.

          • April 8, 2016 at 10:33 am
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            We liked it before it was cool.

      • April 6, 2016 at 7:58 pm
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        ^^^ #thestupiditberns

    • April 6, 2016 at 6:19 am
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      Well this was my scheme:
      Obi Wan, Vader, Silent Generation and before, (WW2, Korea…)
      Han, Luke, Leia, Baby Boomers (Vietnam).
      Poe, Ben Solo, X Generation (the Goonies) (first Irak War).
      Rey, Finn, Millennials (second Irak War).

      But you have made reconsider Ben Solo in that list…

      • April 6, 2016 at 9:01 am
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        You’re welcome? Lol.

        The whole generation thing never made much sense since not everyone has kids at the same age. So Han/Leia and the other Parent’s may not have either hence all the overlap.

        I tend to go with real time which matches your timeline and most of the actors save the PT ones.

        • April 6, 2016 at 9:43 am
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          Well, that is totally truth, Generations is just a simplification.

          For me Han, Leia, Luke are totally BabyBoomers.
          Han is Frank Zappa.
          Luke is David Bowie.
          Leia is Jane Fonda.

          Vader, he is clearly Howard Hughes.
          Obi Wan is Orson Wells.

          And Yoda… probably he is M. Gandhi.


          Chewie is Tony Manero :)))

          • April 6, 2016 at 9:56 am
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            Ha! That works too. An all-music one would be fun to see too.

    • April 6, 2016 at 7:22 am
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      Finally a good post from you Snark Vader, now you’re thinking. 🙂

      I also kind of thought that Ben Solo was a representation of the stereotype of the Millenial generation but, it very well could be we were both looking way too much into it.

      • April 6, 2016 at 8:50 am
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        Thanks! I knew it wasn’t just me but even if we’re the only ones who saw it (which I highly doubt btw) it is clearly there from all the evidence.

        I don’t think Batman or He-Man were considered gay icons either when they were created but looking back at some of their old comics and shows, You can’t really deny there are heavy homoerotic themes.

        Kylo may be a joke in TFA but he’ll probably mature over time and if he’s not redeemed then hopefully he at least becomes a more honorable villain like his hero Vader in a twisted sort of way.

        • April 6, 2016 at 4:38 pm
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          I think Kyro Ren’s portrayal was brilliant. I talked about this before, but Abrams had a scary task in his hands: follow up Darth Vader with someone else. How in the world do you pull this off? It would certainly be possible to go the bigger/badder/scarier route, but that would have ultimately fallen flat. You really can’t out Darth Vader, Darth Vader.

          So he cheated. He created a villain that isn’t nearly as imposing or strong as Darth Vader. Kylo Ren wants to out-Vader, Vader but he can’t and he knows it. And he made that realization part of the character’s inner conflict. His skirting of this issue was clever and creative.

          • April 6, 2016 at 8:52 pm
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            Definitely a VERY clever writing choice.

          • April 7, 2016 at 9:55 am
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            Yeah, My least favorite EU material is where they would clone him in all but name.

            I think the marketing sucked for this film. It was successful in getting people into theaters but creatively it was very confusing with Captain Phasma having a Greedo sized cameo and Finn being less Han Solo and more comic relief. I’m not trusting ny press material for the next ones now.

      • April 6, 2016 at 4:35 pm
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        “Finally a good post from you Snark Vader, now you’re thinking.”

        Dang! Hey, Snark Vader and I rarely agree on much when it comes to Star Wars, but unlike a lot of the trolls here who can barely string together six words into a coherent sentence, he is able to articulate his opinion like an adult without resorting to name calling and digging his heels in like a fool when he’s wrong.

    • April 6, 2016 at 10:13 am
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      My mates Millineal son thought it was a tray of crystal meth.

      • April 6, 2016 at 10:19 am
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        Breaking Sith.

        • April 6, 2016 at 12:44 pm
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          I’m sorry that I can only like this once.

          • April 7, 2016 at 9:35 am
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            New accounts on other devices FTW!

  • April 5, 2016 at 11:04 pm
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    i though it was about hot ashes, that heats his helmet, to infringe to himself pain after putting it again in his head, like when kylo is shooted by Chewbacca, and he hits his wound….

    • April 5, 2016 at 11:47 pm
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      ummm…. what?

      • April 7, 2016 at 6:04 am
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        Pain fuels Kylo. The ashed heat up the mask so that Kylo feels pain every time he puts it on, and that makes him powerful.

    • April 6, 2016 at 5:42 am
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      That´s the BDSM theory, YES, I am agree, Kylo´s rooms look like Christian Grey chamber. Ties, litters, blades, handcuffs…
      Although he couldnt have that nice hair sprayed hairstyle if he would treat it with heat, that heat treatment everyday would give him a Jackson´s five haircut.

      • April 6, 2016 at 7:20 am
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        You’re on a role today Luz. xD

  • April 5, 2016 at 11:24 pm
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    I now imagine the awkward scenarios where Kylo ren strikes down some poor guy and then he has to order stormtroopers to pick the guy up to burn him and put his ashes in a small holder in his room XD

    • April 6, 2016 at 4:30 am
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      Hm, I could easily imagine Vader doing the same thing without it being lame.

      • April 6, 2016 at 5:36 am
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        That´s truth.
        Although I don´t think Vader would like that method because he was Roasted and Grilled in Mustafar by Obi Wan.

        • April 6, 2016 at 7:19 am
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          hahahaa Vader has a very serious case of thermophobia.

          Now we know why Vader was so powerful. His fear of fire, lava, anything burning fueled his power of the dark side.

  • April 5, 2016 at 11:59 pm
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    The ashes are Kylo’s version of catnip to cats

  • April 6, 2016 at 12:51 am
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    the vader’s ashes theory was cool.. but honestly, i think this adds even more depth to his character. i love this.

    • April 6, 2016 at 8:51 pm
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      Important Question!

      What color Beats does Kylo have installed in his mask? Red? Or Black?

      WE MUST KNOW!

      • April 7, 2016 at 6:03 am
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        Are they Solos or Studios? TFA has way too many unanswered questions that make it a shit movie.

  • April 6, 2016 at 2:59 am
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    Fking savage

  • April 6, 2016 at 5:48 am
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    That explains why they CGI’d over Adam’s face in one of his scenes with Snoke. They decided he would keep his mask on longer.

  • April 6, 2016 at 7:11 am
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    Right JJ. Who were these enemies he killed? Nerf Herders? I mean Rey kicked his ass so what level of “enemy” did Kylo kill that deserves to have their ashes kept as a tribute to his imaginary “bad assness”?

    Thats some quality writing.

    • April 6, 2016 at 7:15 am
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      That’s sooooo metal!!! m/

    • April 6, 2016 at 8:53 am
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      Only theory that I buy is that Luke trained them too slowly though it’s highly unlikely he could have taken out all of them together let alone frighten Luke into exile in the way that Sidious did with Yoda. I really hope Johnson comes up with a good explanation there.

      • April 6, 2016 at 4:26 pm
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        Yoda wasn’t frightened into exile. He was forced into exile to preserve some remnants of the Jedi order. To preserve the ability to rebuild the order again.

        • April 7, 2016 at 9:43 am
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          He looked pretty scared to me crawling through that vent like vermin. He also admitted he failed to destroy Sidious who was way younger and more powerful due to the dark side clouding everything. It’s very possible he would have been killed had Vader been there and not injured considering Sidious took out four of the best duelists in the order.

      • April 6, 2016 at 4:30 pm
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        Kylo Ren didn’t seem to take on the academy alone. In the Forceback or flashback or whatever, it’s clear that he was accompanied by what I’m guessing are the Knights of Ren. We don’t get any sense of their level of participation, but I’m guessing that he didn’t pull this off alone.

        And who knows how many students Luke had at the academy and their levels of training? It’s quite likely they were all pretty young. We also see quite a few Jedi eat it during the Battle of Geonosis against battle droids and other non Force-users so the idea of a group of hardened warriors accompanied by Kylo Ren – and catching an academy of young(ish) learners unawares – just isn’t that much to swallow.

        Why Luke took to the wind and disappeared…well…I got nothin for that.

        • April 7, 2016 at 6:02 am
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          The village attack and Kylo’s temple massacre are two different events, I believe.

        • April 7, 2016 at 9:48 am
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          I’m hoping they explain that in the next ones since there’s no hint if they are even force sensitive or just modern Royal Guards.

          Someone here said a few dozen or so but less than a hundred. Battle Droids killing Jedi was one of the dumber ideas Lucas had for the PT, Mandolreans maybe which I wanted to see but not simple machines. It could just be that the old order was worthless in combat due to a lack of experience

      • April 6, 2016 at 5:55 pm
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        we are on the same page with this…and btw, how was anyone supposed to guess that it was ashes from his enemies??? Just one more issue with this film.

        I’m hoping we find that the “Kylo” title once belonged to Del Toro’s character who is much more advanced than Ben Ren. And maybe it was at that point that Ben officially embraced the dark side alongside the KOR. Anything else, just doesn’t add up to me especially based on Ben’s age.

        Luke should have been able to wipe the floor with these guys unless they have him as a really weak character in the new movies.

        • April 7, 2016 at 6:02 am
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          Maybe Luke left due to shame, not physical ability. But of course, you never stopped to consider that. TFA is terrible, no matter what anyone says.

          • April 7, 2016 at 8:01 pm
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            Because,,,,when I watch a movie, it’s all about me and what I like. Exactly!

          • April 8, 2016 at 4:49 am
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            I know you’re joking, but at the same time, your comment is accurate.

        • April 7, 2016 at 10:01 am
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          I was hoping he used the force to do something with them similar to Rey’s rations.

          I’m hoping they team up and kill Snoke since as much as I like Serkiss, He did not bring his A game to the film.

          I think we may see a powered down version of him in this new trilogy though Daisy says everyone will love him in the next one.

          • April 8, 2016 at 10:34 am
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            I might as well be wishing.

    • April 6, 2016 at 8:57 am
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      Well… Knights of Ren Killed ALOT of Jedi students!

    • April 6, 2016 at 9:08 am
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      you realize….. Rey is incredibly strong in the force.. and beyond that…. Kylo was mentally messed up from killing his dad.. and.. oh yeah…. he SOMEHOW lived from a direct hit from Chewies bowcaster (which was decimating people left and right the whole flick). so yeah……. lol

      • April 6, 2016 at 2:27 pm
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        Everyone forgets that bowcaster! That thing should have killed him, but he lives a la Maul and it’s ignored….

        • April 7, 2016 at 1:50 am
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          I have a theory that Chewie purposefully only tried to HURT Kylo, not kill him. You must think that he watched that kid grow up, and was like a nephew. They must have had a relationship. I don’t think he could kill him.

          • April 7, 2016 at 4:39 am
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            So he told his bowcaster bolt to not be as powerful? Didn’t seem like “stun” mode to me at all. Think about that one again.

          • April 7, 2016 at 6:01 am
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            He shot Kylo in the gut. But the bowcaster could also have different settings. who knows?

          • April 7, 2016 at 6:35 am
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            it could, but i thought it was more like his hip. Regardless, it wasn’t a chest or head hit.

          • April 7, 2016 at 4:40 am
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            He was bleeding out, too.

      • April 6, 2016 at 3:22 pm
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        If I think there was one thing we were supposed to take away from all this… is that Rey is abnormally talented/strong with the Force. Which I think was the entire reason she was abandoned on Jakku.

        Why people get upset about what I clearly see as a plot point I’ll never understand. Her powers didn’t need to be explained… it was exactly the point of the movie! Clearly something is very different about her… and will be answered in another movie.

      • April 6, 2016 at 9:45 pm
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        thats what I keep trying to tell people.

      • April 7, 2016 at 5:59 am
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        Exactly. Throughout the film, whole scenes stop to put a random emphasis on how strong the bowcaster is. It’s JJ’s way of subtly explaining why Kylo was weakened during the forest battle. some people are just too dim to pick up on something so obvious.

        • April 8, 2016 at 8:20 am
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          Damn, you must chat with J.J. then. Or are you just speculating like everyone else. Starwars films always have some goofy things that in hindsight don’t make sense, J.J. Has admitted as much, i.e. Chewie walking by the princess. You can like the movie and point out the bone headed moves J.J. And company made.

          • April 8, 2016 at 8:25 am
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            I’m not speculating, I’m observing. The bowcaster is shown blowing up TR-8R. It’s shown blowing up stormies at the battle of Takodana. It was shown blowing stuff up at Starkiller Base. It blows up Guavian Gang Members and Han literally says

            “I need to get me one of these!”

            HINT HINT!

    • April 6, 2016 at 4:13 pm
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      That can be easily explained away by Kylo’s weakened state after having been shot in the the abdomen by Chewbacca. There is also the fact that there is speculation that Rey was already trained in the force but may have had her mind wiped for some reason. There is also the fact that she is self learning a lot of force abilities. That means she is very powerful in the force, maybe more powerful than Anakin Skywalker.

      Also, who is to say that all the enemies he’s killed were force users?

      • April 7, 2016 at 5:58 am
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        There is also the fact that Kylo was physically and emotionally weakened form murdering his father. AND he wasn’t actually trying to kill Rey, just capture her, so she was able to surprise you.

      • April 8, 2016 at 8:17 am
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        Some valid points, but doubtful she is stronger than Anakin. Kylo was certainly injured, however, that very well could have aided him in his dark side force abilities.

    • April 6, 2016 at 4:14 pm
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      Just because you can’t get your head around some of this stuff, doesn’t mean that it’s bad writing. As of now, we really don’t know a whole lot about either Kylo Ren or Rey. It’s clear that there’s a great deal more to Rey than we’ve been allowed know. Who’s she related to, nobody can say for certain, but certainly she’s got a depth of Force potential that we’ve not seen the bottom (or the origin) of.

      Positing that Kylo Ren could not have possibly defeated any sort of worthy opponent because he was bested by Rey isn’t bad writing on JJ’s part, but rather a logic failure on your part.

      • April 7, 2016 at 5:57 am
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        THANK YOU! Some people are so determined to hate in Episode VII that they throw logic out the window.

        • April 8, 2016 at 8:13 am
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          Or some people are so determined to defend it they decide logic should be suspended. Although Rey winning against Kilo is the least of the issues with Ep. 7, it surely does raise some questions about Kylo’s abilities. Sure, Rey may be bad ass. But a bad ass who doesn’t remember her training probably should have struggled against a guy to have helped facilitate the destruction of a bunch f Jedi. So the writing here is at best flawed.

          • April 8, 2016 at 8:17 am
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            Sure, flawed. But you at least have to admit that they did try to make a good reason for Kylo losing the battle (the bowcaster).

      • April 8, 2016 at 8:15 am
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        Just because everyone doesn’t agree with your narrow minded view doesn’t mean their skepticism is any less worthy than your devotion. Even if Rey ends up being a once trained baby Jedi, her taking down a trained Jedi, turned dark side user without remembering said training will always be flawed. At best she should have held her own and needed an heavy assist to get out of there.

        • April 8, 2016 at 3:00 pm
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          You might want to Google the definition of “narrow minded”. If you read my post, it’s pretty clear that I’m reserving a lot of judgment on what occurred because we actually know very little about what happened. Han’s explanation of pre-TFA events and Rey’s Forceback really only provide us with a basic outline of what went down with Kylo Ren and Luke’s academy.

          That’s really the essence of open-mindedness.

          But you’re taking the selected story fragments that we’re given and without waiting for the story to be fleshed out, you’re chalking your confusion up to bad writing on JJ’s part. That’s a silly and rather juvenile way to judge a film.

  • April 6, 2016 at 3:20 pm
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    He was way darker than I had already thought. This is worse than Vader’s ashes. Maybe there wont be a redemption here after all.

    • April 6, 2016 at 4:08 pm
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      Killing your father is pretty dark. Once he killed Han, imho, there was no redemption for Kylo Ren.

    • April 6, 2016 at 4:09 pm
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      I don’t think we’re going to see a redemption of Kylo Ren. Luke’s saving of his father needs to remain a one-off. If every dark side user is able to be swayed back to the light, then it’s not the one-way-trip that Yoda proclaimed it to be. Bringing dark side users, Sith, evil Jedi, whatever back to the light also presents a pretty tricky situation in terms of storytelling. What do you do with this person? As of now Kylo Ren is guilty of murder; lots of it. What do you do with him if he decides to chuck the dark stuff and become a good guy once again? This was handled in the OT by having Anakin die just a few moments after coming back to the light. This could be Kylo Ren’s fate, I guess, but I’d like to see something different.

      There’s also the issue of Han’s death. Regardless of whether or not one think’s it was a good storytelling move (I think it was), Kyro Ren still killed Han Solo and I just can’t see an audience rallying behind and rooting for a back-to-good Ben Solo.

    • April 7, 2016 at 5:56 am
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      I hope not. I hope he is truly irredeemable in IX and Rey is forced to kill him. Then the movie ends with a bitter-sweet ending where we see that Jylo was the real victim, of Snoke, that is. That would truly set him apart from Vader.

  • April 6, 2016 at 6:04 pm
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    Adding this tidbit in after the movie is just awful. I like the idea and agree that it adds a different depth to his darkness. But it would have made more sense to have it discussed in the movie? Then everyone is freaking out over how dark he is.

    Now it’s just like…btw, this is another element as to how evil he is. It has no impact after the fact. I’ve watched 7 several times in the last few days and still can’t believe how bad the character was portrayed. They could have truly made him bad ass.

    Instead he just comes across as whiny and weak. I know that i’m in the minority on this…but just one big missed opportunity!

    • April 6, 2016 at 8:17 pm
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      How long the movie would be if every single detail is been discussed and explained in it?

      • April 6, 2016 at 8:48 pm
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        I guess a narrator introducing each character with their kill count and battle record like WWE would have been appropriate.

        • April 6, 2016 at 9:03 pm
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          lol…they would have to announce his loss to a janitorial trooper and noob to the force as well! lol

          • April 7, 2016 at 5:55 am
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            Still going crazy over the janitor argument? When will people like you learn to pay attention during the movie?

          • April 7, 2016 at 6:46 pm
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            I did….

          • April 8, 2016 at 4:49 am
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            Obviously not.

          • April 8, 2016 at 5:56 am
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            10 times now…and he’s still the janitor.

          • April 8, 2016 at 8:21 am
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            *Worked sanitation in addition to COMBAT TRAINING*. He’s as much of a janitor as he is a trained warrior. And I’ll remind you of that every single time you call him a janitor. Every. Single. Time.

          • April 8, 2016 at 2:27 pm
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            toilet brush in one hand….saber in the other! lol

          • April 9, 2016 at 7:47 am
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            I would actually not mind that as long as he’s using both of those to hold Poe in his arms.

          • April 7, 2016 at 8:02 pm
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            Lol….they put it in the movie. I just run with it!

          • April 8, 2016 at 4:48 am
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            He worked sanitation on Stakiller. He ALSO happened to be the best fighter in his class (other than TR-8R, I’m guessing). But of course, you never bring that up, because TFA is terrible, “plot details” and “nuance” be damned.

          • April 8, 2016 at 5:52 am
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            Best janitor! Clean toilets at an amazing rate!

      • April 6, 2016 at 9:02 pm
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        they could have easily had troopers discussing it…just a mention would have done it.

        • April 7, 2016 at 12:45 am
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          Like what? – “Hey, did you know that Kylo keeps the ashes of his fallen foes in his office? That’s seriously messed up.” … Nah, I don’t see it.

          • April 7, 2016 at 6:46 pm
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            Then why bring up after the fact….weak!

    • April 7, 2016 at 5:54 am
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      Discussed in the movie? How int eh world would this EVER come up in conversation without seeming forced and clunky? You obviously have no grasp of film-making whatsoever.

      • April 7, 2016 at 8:05 pm
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        Sure do. How else would we have known? Exactly! We didn’t until after the fact when it has less impact.

        Maybe the janitorial stormtrooper failure (Finn) could have mentioned it was a rumor while talking about how evil the FO was….yeah, that would have worked!

        • April 8, 2016 at 4:47 am
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          Yay, the janitor shit again. You’re predictable.

          • April 8, 2016 at 5:52 am
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            So was 7!

          • April 8, 2016 at 8:21 am
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            And yet you condemned it then.

  • April 8, 2016 at 2:37 am
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    What a lot of bother, to have ones enemies cremated and then keep them in a pot that he then keeps his granpops helmet in.
    That Ben Solo is one peculiar young man.

    • April 9, 2016 at 10:33 pm
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      Yea it really kills it

  • April 9, 2016 at 10:33 pm
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    I thought that was vaders ashes the whole time. It would have been cooler that way. Like he has the mask why not the ashes?

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