Lucasfilm Story Group’s Pablo Hidalgo Has Some Fun With List of Alleged Star Wars Saga Plot Holes
A few days ago, Esquire posted an article with “A Comprehensive List of Star Wars Plot Holes”. Of course the list is pretty subjective, but things got really interesting when Lucasfilm Story Group member Pablo Hidalgo decided to answer and explain some of them just for fun.
While some of these are fair criticisms, most would agree that many of these “plot holes” are not really plot holes at all. Just because an explanation isn’t given or readily available doesn’t necessarily mean there is an error. A plot hole by definition is an error or inconsistency in logic with respect to the established plot of the story. When an event happens or something is said that would be logically impossible given other events or statements in the story, that is plot hole. While Pablo’s arguments are mostly solid, they still have a point on some of these…how did Luke get past that blockade anyway? We may never know.
Founder of SWNN, MNN and The Cantina forums.
Born on April 24, 1980.
Wow Pablo got really cranky.
Nah, he was having fun.
Yes, he is that way hahaha
This was a great look at how plot holes are usually anything but.
I would like to know how if Rey’s parents are penniless junkers that sold her for beer money and are dead on Jakku according to Kylo, that they are able to fly off in a spaceship in her force back vision in TFA.
Well, they could have catch a ride. And, maybe they died poor in another planet. The same point remains in the line Kylo said.
Well, they could have catch a ride. And, maybe they died poor in another planet. The same point remains in the line Kylo said.
Catching a ride seems a pretty poor excuse though…
You never took a ride?
As i were saying up there, maybe the money of selling Rey were used to buy tickets to leave the planet. Not really a stretch.
That’s possible, and I suppose could be redone still to have her not being a nobody. Sold to buy tickets by people fleeing from something…
I preffer her being a nobody. I don’t see any importance in changing that now. FOR ME that remembrance that the Force can manifest in any family was apropriate. A say remembrance because in the peak of the Jedi Order (start of the Clone Wars) they were ~10.000, and with the rule of no marriage, no family. So, the padawans came all from “nobodies” anyway.
Yeah Ruin just ignored that “set up” in TFA and just decided to make them nobodies. That was clearly not the plan.
It’s not really clear to me. They money of Rey’s sell could be the tickets to leave the planet. Why not?
Then explain why Daisy Ridley was told that Rey was a nobody while she was filming TFA. Explain why JJ and Rian have said that they individually came to the same separate conclusions about Rey’s parentage. Explain why Lucas’ original story treatments have Rey as a nobody.
Oh right! You can’t. Because you’re full of shit.
Daisy was told at TFA filming that she was a “nobody” b/c at that stage in Rey’s life, she is. She is a “nobody” yearning for more, much like Luke when he was stuck on Tatooine. Her parentage was being positioned as a substantial reveal later. Also, no JJ has never revealed Rey’s parentage.
That’s one (the wrong) way to look at it.
SW: A New Hope is also about a “nobody” discovering he is part of something much greater.
SW: A New Hope is also about a “nobody” discovering he is part of something much greater.
Luke was a nobody until his father was revealed to be a Jedi.
Rey remains a nobody except she is now someone because of her actions.
JJ and Rian both individually came up with the same answer regarding her parents, as noted in this Rolling Stone piece: https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/features/the-last-jedi-cover-story-on-the-dark-new-star-wars-movie-w512703
You’re full of shiiiiit
You say a lot of stories, here, my friend. I will be nice to you asking only for a proof of Lucas’ treatment with Rey being a nobody – that the audience will not know any of her parents. (I can only rememger Lucas saying: JJ, what happened to Vader’s grandChildren?). So please proove your statements, otherwise you are just full of shit, as you like to tell to others….
Read the Last Jedi art book.
Yeah, and now we’ll all get to watch as JJ does the opposite again, and gives Rey some parents… smh. They really need to work in tandem.
JJ said he and Rian came up with the same answer for her parents. Or Rian did. one of them said that.
JJ said he and Rian came up with the same answer for her parents. Or Rian did. one of them said that.
It clearly was.
“Who are you?”
“I’m no one.”
WHOEVER you are waiting for: they are not coming back
Yup. It’s all over the movie.
As is her family being a big secret, including that weird line Rey says to BB8 about it being a big secret. I like what they ended up doing in TLJ, but there’s no getting around the fact that JJ was trying to have it both ways.
It’s already been established within TFA that some things in the vision don’t match up with the actual events they’re depicting. In her vision, Rey sees Kylo with his mask on in the woods; when that already happens, he’s removed the mask. The forceback is emotionally true, but not always strictly accurate to reality.
I think that’s more symbolic than a continuity issue. We don’t see the face of Kylo Ren until he’s face to face with Rey. The reveal is reserved for that scene.
I agree, but it also functions as an explanation for why that vision may not be strictly accurate in every way.
Changing the Anakin Force Ghost at the end of ROTJ is still stupid.
I agree. Never acepted that.
I’m actually ok with it now, its Anakin before he was corrupted by the Dark Side.
Sebastian Shaw made the ending feel warmer tho.
And for me that is true redemption. He was redeemed as an old man (when Vader is unmasked it rings truer). In my mind that’s the canon image.
Plus Hayden always looks satanic LOL
I can’t believe the laziness in that shot, you know that image is just Hadyen’s head in a costume fitting video, right? If Lucas was going to do that, at least shoot it well.
Well, you can comfort yourself that he’s MOSTLY still in that shot 🙂
Have to agree. Just plain unnecessary.
Wow; never thought I’d ever agree with you about anything.
At last: we agree
So are your posts. But as with the Anakin Force Ghost, there are some things we can never change back.
Perhaps the first upvote I’ve ever given you..
I hope a great number of people read that tweets, because a immense parcel of the people who disliked the movie could not understand some things and called it “plotholes”. A friend of mine enumerated a lot of them, and I explained all. And of it in the week of the movie premier.
Most of these are really forced to say the least. Star Wars is full of plotholes and contradictions. And it’s still awesome.
There is no need for half assed and rather embarrassing “rebuttals”, like how Chewie dosen’t tell about the jedi to Han because he’s a different character later… Please.
He must have told, but the thing is, Han didn’t believe. How Chewie would prove that the Jedi were real, the Force etc?
He dosen’t even need Chewie to know about them, considering he was a teenager during the clone wars and because he’s a well informed smuggler, who travelled around half the Galaxy…
In ANH Han dosen’t know anything about the jedi or the force. Like he entirely missed the most important events in the last thousand years of the Republic’s history…
The PT not matching up to the OT is well documented. I don’t bother making excuses for them. There’s a reason they were received the way they were. I certainly don’t hold them up as any example of what Star Wars should be.
When he was a teenager we don’t really know what he was doing, in Corellia or another place. He could not pay much atention to that war, not to the point of see Jedi in action.
I know, it’s not a really good explanation.
But I think it’s not as he don’t know about them. He just don’t care, like a young man of today don’t care about WW II (and I know lots of people here in Brazil who know only the very basics of the greatest armed conflict in History).
We even see that in the Sequel Trilogy, people thinking of the Jedi as myths.
Well, here is the question: Why would Chewie tell Han that Jedi are real? We know that Chewie arranged the meeting with Han and Obi-wan. Chewie also saw the Clones kill the Jedi, and helped Yoda escape, and likely knew about the Jedi Purge. Why would he endanger Han, the person he owed a Life Debt to, by blabbing about “Hey, yeah..Jedi are real, their powers are great, and you should help these guys.” Best to keep Han in the dark..
I could easily refute all of those points, but instead I’ll ask this:
Why dosen’t Han know about them in the first place? Not counting the fact that he was in his teenage years during the clone wars (!!!!!), are you trying to tell me that he, as a well informed (he needs to be in that business), constantly travelling smuggler didn’t manage to hear a single story about the most important events of the Republic and its main participants, that also happened right in the front of his face?! Please…
Not to mention the fact that many jedi lived through order 66 and they were most likely well known among the smugglers of the Republic.
The galaxy has literally billions upon billions of people in it. Jedi Knights were in the 10,000’s at the height of their power. Most people would have never encountered one in their travels if they ever left their home world to begin with.
Really, the thousand generations old physics-bending order of peacekeeping monks that lived in large temples in the centrum of the Republic, who also happened to lead their armies and took central role in the most important events of the last thosand years pre-TPM are not to be known in the Galaxy?
Especially by a constantly travelling smuggler who’s parter and trustee literally fought along Yoda a mere 18 years before ANH?
Weird logic, if you ask me…
Maybe he was a choir boy during his teens on Corellia and got into smuggling late in life.
Or maybe he’s just silicone based, like the space slug… Would explain his hairy feet as well.
Maybe, and during his teen years he had to live inside an asteroid until he was a big boy which is why he missed the clone wars.
Thanks, you just ruined the Solo movie to me now.. Becuase this is my new headcanon.
Don’t worry – we need to find out how Han knew it’s wasn’t a cave – Kessel run section of the film will no doubt include an encounter with a space slug.
You don’t have friends who believe in things that you don’t?
I agree with him, I love ESB, but it’s by far the one that makes the least sense of all of them. If it were released today, the radicals would demolish it. TLJ has no plot holes ans senseless things compared o ESB
I can say one can come up with an explanation for every so called “plot holes”, but the problem is that it´s never shown. (ex: the chase in TLJ wasn’t low speed, but full speed –the stars don’t pass running by spaceships windows in full speed )We don’t have an official explanation. As we don’t know exactly why Frodo didin’t go destroy the ring flying on the eagles.
Fly, you fools! Too bad they didn’t get it
Because the Eagles are not slaves and do what they want.
BUt they come everytime Gandalf asks — I have a theory: the eagles could get tempted by the ring and steal it from Frodo— BUT that wasn’t explained , just my imagination wanting the story to be right
https://sarahcradit.wordpress.com/2013/01/11/dispelling-the-myth-why-the-eagles-of-middle-earth-are-not-gandalfs-personal-taxi/
Try this
Yeah. that’s my point: there might be an explanation, but IT”S NOT IN THE MOVIE NEITHER THE BOOK.. Same to TLJ: there must be explanations, or come to be, virtually every plothole can be explained with some imagination SO, you can eliminate every plot hole EX: Crisis on Infinite Earths: explain several contradicitons and plotholes of 40 or 50 years
But you don’t need an explanation. If all the other characters in-universe, who know more than us, are okay with, we should be too.
Flying into Mordor as Sauron was in his death-throws is one thing; flying in when Sauron and all his forces were fully powered and aware would be something else. The chances of getting to Orodruin would be miniscule. Sneaking into Mordor was also highly likely to fail, but was the last thing Sauron expected.
I don’t know why I’m trying this lol.
Are you lost? 😀
I have a theory: the eagles could get tempted by the ring and steal it from Frodo— BUT that wasn’t explained , just my imagination wanting the story to be right
The eagles are servants of Manwe, and are therefore incorruptible.
Whys TESB the one that makes least sense!? Other than the ones listed above (and the Yoda/Luke one is hardly a plot hole)? I don’t see how.
I wonder what would the vocal ST haters say about the worm-creature living inside an asteroid…
I wonder what would the vocal ST haters say about the worm-creature living inside an asteroid…
It apparently doesn’t need to have oxygen to live. How are we to understand this organism? That’d be my guess.
Well, if Leia can survive in space, I don’t see why a creature that large can not
So, is that creature a member of a powerful force user family as well?
Hey maybe some of space slugs silicone properties rubbed off on Leia while she was in there and that’s how she survived all these years later!!
Maybe, but let’s assume it is not. We don’t know the species, it (sorry, don’t want to assume gender) might be able to live from cosmic dust, instead of oxygen, or from gamma rays, or maybe there’s actual oxygen trapped on the inside of that asteroid and he takes deep breaths. Leia, on the other hand, has always been human, until now, that is.
It’s an Exogorth and it’s silicone based. In theory (real world biology) can live in the vacuum of space and feeds on energy.
Thanks for the info, I thought there had to be some book about it
Thanks for the info, I thought there had to be some book about it
So, you’re okay with the clone wars episode where Anakin and Ahsoka are in space sans space suits and just bubble helmets?
Or Plo Koon for that matter. And he had nothing on at all.
Don’t get me wrong Gerry, (and this doesn’t mean I like you, I don’t) the shot of Leia doing what she did looked stupid and dragged me straight out of the film. It was a poor choice. But the point of the sequence was to show that Leia had likely been trained by Luke at some point and had become a powerful Force user in her own right.
It was a pay off that was whined for after TFA. Just a poor choice in how it was demonstrated.
Thanks for not assuming the space slugs gender. I never want to assume your species myself, I always think it would be impolite to wonder aloud what kind of intestinal parasite you were birthed from.
And what about the other many living organisms inside the cerature? Do the mynocks and flora also live off gamma rays or cosmic dust?
LoL. Well, now you’re just splitting hairs. But I think Mynocks can survive in space, Han says so, right? Peace
She only survived briefly and was in a coma afterwards. But you know that.
They would say..The space slug is a silicone based life form which, in theory, can live in the vacuum of space.
And are the mynocks, flora and the other organisms living inside the worm also silicone based life forms?
You could in theory create a million excuses for that worm. It grinds up the rock around it releasing the trapped oxygen within. It creates it’s own atmosphere within itself supporting other life.
How did the oxygen get trapped in the rocks you ask? Why it’s an extremely rare type of asteroid blown free and eventually caught up in the outer belt. The oxygen being trapped early in the formation of the system.
The worm could have come from a hardened seed that drifted into the fields or was present during the formation!
One guy joked about Leia surviving. Don’t laugh! It could be an organism that uses the Force to shield itself for all we know!
Needless to say… a lot can be said about that worm!
Yes mynocks are silicone based. That’s why they were chewing on the power cables. Also, if I remember rightly, one of the stories in The Legends of Luke Skywalker had him living inside a slug for awhile (don’t ask!) and there’s all sorts of silicone life inside the slugs.
I don’t have a problem with it, but it does raise a few questions. What does it live off? A creature that big would require serious calories to sustain itself, yet what does it eat?
Also, the Millennium Falcon traveled quite far into it’s mouth, wouldn’t the distance it covered have placed it into its digestive system, where it would have encounter gastric juices, digestive enzymes, and what like?
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve never had problem with the space-slug. It’s just another silly creature in the world of Star Wars. Nowadays however people pretend that things like this were never part of Star Wars…
Likewise. I just accept SW for what it is.
Its lack of response to the Falcon arriving almost makes it feel like it’s in hibernation. Han blowing a few holes in its gut sort of woke it up lol.
Lol.
Lol.
Not to mention the fact that it clearly must have its own pressure, heat, atmosphere and artificial gravity to support a mynock colony, mist on the ground, and allow Han and Chewie to walk around with just breath masks and not space suits. The slug is in a hole bored towards the asteroid’s core, so Han is really walking up and down the sheer wall of the cave. It makes no sense if you spend any time thinking about it.
But then again, this is a series of fantasy films. To apply real world logic and physics to them invites madness.
Exactly.
Rogue one was made to try to explain a plothole, the “hit here to destroy” hole in DS
*Warning* May not actually be a “plot hole”.
plothole in the discussion is “something that wasn’t explained”. Like “how did Superman made the time go backwards, that’s impossible” , “what happened to the atomic bombs when he made the time go foward again?” AND ” why does DS need a straight to the center tunnel that can explode the station?”, “Why did the empire use AT-AT walkers? they come SO slower than spaceships and you can see them a mile ahead “
The time (how long is Luke on Dagobah), the distance (How did the Falcon travel from Anoat to Bespin with no hyperdrive; would take hundreds of thousands of year below lightspeed), the space slug having atmosphere and gravity….
This one has been explained before, not sure if it was Pablo himself though. The Falcon had a backup hyperdrive that took awhile to install and it was also a LOT slower than the main drive, so it took several weeks for them to get to Bespin. Which would also be a reasonable amount of time for Luke to be trained. Not sure what the atmosphere was in the slug but they did all have to wear breathing masks. The gravity is a bit odd but then no more odd than the bombs dropping in TLJ which I will say is one of my favourite parts of TLJ even if I did find the movie overall disappointing. Sometimes with Star Wars you have to suspend your disbelief. That goes for all 9 movies.
First I’ve heard of that, and I’ve always wondered about the travel time without a hyperdrive. This is the kind of thing that in TLJ would have people foaming at the mouth about a poor plot.
Yeah I’m fairly certain I didn’t just make that up in my head…”yes you did”…who said that!!
How did you survive since 1980 without this explanation that’s not in the movie?
By not getting upset by something I had no control over and just liking the film for what it was. Also, just assuming Anoat must be right on Bespin’s doorstep, and a few months travel for them would give Luke enough time to train on Dagobah.
Oh – and having a life filled with other things 🙂
That wasn’t in the movie. It´s the same as I explaining:Hondo had terminal cancer, and she wanted to comit suicide OR the automatic pilot of the ship was not functional OR It´s part of the culture the captain die with the ship. But the fact is explanations are not in the movie (backup hyperdrive????really????)
This is an explanation that’s been around for sometime. I think it’s been included in the schematics as well. Google it.
The backup hyperdrive was an invention of the EU/Legends. The movie clearly states “no lightspeed?” He has a tweet about that right now. From yesterday.
There is no reasonable explanation for it, so yeah, you have to suspend.
And (Get ready forums, for I am about to trash Pablo and the Story Group) the reasoning they’re giving for this NOW (which sadly is canon) is that time moves differently on different worlds.
That is complete garbage. Complete. Garbage. Gag, vomit, eats it, vomits some more. Gags. Yeah. F that explanation straight into the ground.
I’d rather them not have said anything at all about it other than “That’s the way it happens. Deal.”
empire has been raked over and discussed at length for almost 40 years. you can love TLJ without trying to drag the OT into the mud with it.
Finding plotholes is how people of marginal intelligence criticize movies. Every narrative has plot holes; few of them matter much.
I don’t think that’s completely fair. It depends on the movie and size of he plot hole. Sure suspension of belief plays a part but some movies have failed really horribly and pointing out it’s holes is fine.
Before you get up in arms I don’t believe TLJ had anything like that. I am amazed at the myriad of ways people have gone out of their way to explain why so many opinions are invalid or lesser than others though.
I find that sad most of all.
The point is that “people of marginal intelligence,” as Bobby calls them, tend to call things plot holes that are aren’t. It’s because they’re having comprehension problems, and often not because there is a legitimate issue with the narrative. Just look at this thread, it’s rife with commenters mentioning other issues that aren’t actually plot holes either.
I long for the time when defenders of TLJ can do so without insulting or calling names other people. I guess I there are better chances of Disney giving us a good SW movie than that.
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-write-a-novel-with-no-plot-holes-at-all
We all long for something, I suppose.
So funny hearing you make this statement. You have alot in common with a Senator from Texas.
I did that for a while, but when the sexism and stupidity runs free, I call it like I see it. No apologies. It’s 2018: people are gonna hear what they are.
Star Wars for me, has always primarily been about strong characters, people you can empathise and identify with. Everything else is secondary.
Yes! Like Rose, or DJ.
Actually, I was thinking more of Han, Luke, Leia, Rey, Finn, Poe, Chewie, R2D2, C3PO, and BB-8. Totally spoilt for choice. But, I’m sure there are many people who connected with Rose. DJ was a secondary character.
That’s the reason I rate the prequels and Rogue One so poorly, I just can’t connect with many of the characters. Obi-Wan is about it.
I like Qui-Gon a lot, Mace Windu, Padme, Ki Adi, Panaka, Dooku and Palpatine, great acting from Sir Ian. I like R1, but agree, I believe that the fact that there were too many characters prevented the movie (filmmakers) from making us care about them. I would have removed Bodhi and Baze, and explored Jyn’s and Cassian stories a little deeper.
Yep, Palpatine was such a great character. I always say the best two things about the prequels were McGregor and McDiarmid.
But that’s exactly my point. We should be so invested in the characters so that everything else is secondary.
Yes I can relate to R2D2. I’m short and round with a large middle leg!
Do you also curse like a sailor?
Why have Wookiees all got names they cannot themselves pronounce?
the chase in TLJ WAS in full speed, and it’s physics is correct: stars can’t be seen passing running by spaceships windows in full speed, because they are extremely far, so they visually keep in the same place. The Star Trek’ “stars passing fast by the window” to represent speed is wrong, I guess
At least he pointed out… when they had a good point. Also.. thankfully this wasn’t very TLJ related.
It wouldn’t have made much of a difference. Disagreement with the film choices does not equal plot holes. There is an entire thread on this forum where people claimed plot holes that weren’t actually plot holes – just script choices they didn’t like.
I try to be very humble when claiming a plot hole. I’m usually shown to be wrong or not observant.
I’m honestly just tired of TLJ debates. That’s why I was thankful it was mostly avoided.
‘Plot hole’ is the biggest excuse people have when they don’t want to accept a film to be good.
We cant forget the successful Rogue One was made to cover a big plot hole — the “hit here to explode” site in the dearh Star
Also NOT a plot hole haha. See above article for a definition.
If this kind of thing is not a plothole then there isn’t A SINGLE plothole in TLJ, only things they decide not to explain in the movie
No, you just don’t understand what a plot hole is.
You can give two pages os explanation about the eagles of middle earth, but IT’S NOT IN THE MOVIE – neither in the book. That’s the criticism on TLJ is that explanations are not given. That doesn’t mean they don´t exist or that someone couldn’t invent an “official” one. but, still, not in the movie. THAT’s what is called a plothole in this forum–AND I dont agee with this definition of plothole , just accept it.
It doesn’t need to be.
Yes, it does
I guess you sit there and wonder why the characters don’t die of hunger since we never see them eat.
I see them eating, if eating is part of story. Eagles coming from nowhere is part of the story not explained.
He asked them for help. They helped. They aren’t a taxi service.
Yes, they are. They are plot shortcuts, fuck the explanations that are not in the book or the movie. They are stupid shortcuts
They are not, but I guess any explanation not in the book (better known as THINKING) is too much for you. Good talk.
Yes, they are. they are aero taxis. In a fantasy, invented story, only matters what the author thinks ou imagine or tell us, not me. I can think but then it would be my fantasy. But if I think and write the book “the eagles of Middle Earth” i’ll let you know. Good talk
See, that’s not a plot hole. It would have been a plot hole if, For instance, if luke knew about where to hit the death star without a debrief. Or if they all start to take for granted something they logically weren’t supposed to know (e.g.: Spock in Star Trek (2009), towards the end talks about deactivating the red matter device of the villain, though he was never informed of it being a red matter device)
The fact that Pablo feels the need to go out and to this says more about him than the people complaining.
The backlash is real and the REAL issue here is that people like you can’t accept that the film isn’t good.
If LF never answered questions, some would say, “See, they don’t respond because they know they messed up.”
When they do try to talk sense through some of these issues, it is because “they feel the need to because they know the movie is garbage.”
Everyone will see what they want to see, I guess. “It is terrible.” “It is great.” Let me select the supporting documentation that proves my side is correct…and if you don’t accept and believe my opinion, then you’re “one of them.” So lets draw lines in the sand and attack each other. Right?
Yes, that matter is quite idiotic. Since DVD era, we always had “Extra” sections with sometimes LOADS of behind-the-scenes material (Lords of The RIngs have same hours of content as the films) explaining lots of plot points, ideas, inspirations, themes… The difference is that now we have the internet in full power, and with that, new channels to the creators talk with us.
So, Rian comes to talk about the movie, what I see as a positive, a good will, he is being accessible. But a bunch of assholes criticize even that. Damn, it is ok to dislike the movie, but people (NOT EVERYONE!!) don’t need to be so imbecile in the process.
I guess I missed the part where Pablo was debunking Last Jedi plot holes, as opposed to OT and PT ones. Sure, there is a contingent of fans that are so upset over TLJ’s failings that its become their life’s goal to make sure everyone knows they’re wrong for not hating it as much as they do. It doesn’t make you right.
You hate the film, we get that loud and clear, and I’m happy to have a civil discussion about that. How you feel about a creative work is not a zero sum game…you’re just a sad fanboy dealing with your own disappointment by pretending you’re somehow more enlightened than the “sheeple” who thought TLJ was entertaining.
“you’re just a sad fanboy dealing with your own disappointment by pretending you’re somehow more enlightened than the “sheeple” who thought TLJ was entertaining.”
A bad movie is a bad movie. Never heard anyone make an argument that Police Academy 4 was actually a good movie. Why? Because bad is just bad. TLJ is bad. Its pretty and has good music, but thats about where anything good ends.
Sorry you cant handle that. Its ok to like the movie hell have at it. Why would I want anyone to not enjoy something just because I dont? There are people who probably thought Police Academy 4 was worth the price of admission, cool.
Just wish people would stop saying a bad movie is a “good movie” just because they liked it.
…IN YOUR OPINION!
TLJ is awesome
Im sorry but no, no its not.
People don’t really understand what actually a plot hole is, and it is used as a label when the plot has not-so-good portions. TLJ has been considered as full of plot-holes, while actually most of story points are clear. Yes, I can recognise that it is silly that Finna nd Rose casually get imprisoned for landing on a beach and meet DJ, but there’s no plot hole there. There would have been a plot hole if they were just randomly arrested for no reason, or they’re imprisoned and suddenly in the next scene they’re free with no explanation.
I think the movie by itself was pretty good. How it fits into the Saga and what the first two episodes actually mean likely won’t be understood until episode IX. If they are loosely following George Lucas’ original idea, there is only so much freedom they are really given in these movies. There is a core story that these directors can’t change, there has to be a model, they can bend the model but can’t break it.
what does that even mean? plot hole doesn’t mean the movie is bad it means a plot point doesn’t make sense. you can have plot holes in good films.
I’m saying that audience often labels as ‘plot holes’ things that aren’t plot holes;
thats fine, but listing such issues doesn’t mean you hate a film. all movies have problems.
Here I’m specifically referring to the numerous negative reviews of films that claim the criticised film to be full of non-specified plot holes. When such “plot holes” are specified, I noticed that in most cases either the reviewer did not notice something or did not pay attention, or that it isn’t a plot hole, more some error of sorts. I think it’s made clear in Hidalgo’s affermations that most of the unexplained things occur in ESB, arguably one of the best SW films, which proves that good films can have mistakes.
My point is that TLJ has been overly criticised for being ‘full of plot holes’. I figured a single plot hole which was debunked to me when I watched the film again. I think that TLJ can be criticised, but for me criticism requires a rightful motivation. If you tell me you didn’t like TLJ because you disagree with the choice of making everything happen in 18 hours, found unnecessary to include the Canto Bight subplot, ecc., that’s fine to me, you explained why you didn’t like the film. But if you say “TLJ is bad because its poorly written and full of plot holes”, and at my request for specification you say “it’s a plot hole that Luke was an optimistic jedi in ROTJ and depressed and would have never tried to kill a family member”, well sir, that ain’t a plot hole. The example is exagerated, but often I feel alledged plot holes in TLJ not to be plot holes at all, but rather plot-choices that the viewer didn’t appreciate.
I always thought of the why leia knew her mother and why did obi wan not know the droids or pretend like he didn’t. But yea that was because the prequels didn’t exist. When did no one ever use that escape pod on the millinium falcon before. Did palpatine know leia was Luke’s sister
– Knowing what we know now, it’s quite possible that a baby, Force-sensitive Leia felt her mother’s presence, either in-utero or after Padme’s death. But yeah, it’s primarily because the prequels weren’t written yet and Lucas coudn’t be bothered to keep that continuity.
– The Falcon escape pods were used before, in A New Hope. You just didn’t see them. Remember what the officer told Vader:
” There’s no one on board, sir. According to the log, the crew abandoned ship right after takeoff. It must be a decoy, sir. Several of the escape pods have been jettisoned.”
And for the last bloody time, just because something wasn’t shown before in a prior film doesn’t make it a plot hole. Why the hell does the Falcon have a retractable laser machine gun on the underside? Because the plot called for it. Why does it have a landing claw to clamp onto Star Destroyers? Because the plot called for it. Why didn’t they use Y-wings to bomb AT-ATs on Hoth? I can do this all day. 😛
Answer this. What does the B stand for in Salacious B. Crumb
Biscuit
Mmmm….. biscuits.
Legit plot hole: In TFA, Leia tells Han the reason why their son went to the Dark Side; it was Snoke who tempted him. In TLJ, we learn that Luke sensed the Dark Side in Ben and wanted to murder him, and this was the moment Ben lost all faith and went to the Dark Side.
So stupid.
Rian-revision LOL
No, that’s not a legit plot hole as those are not mutually exclusive points. It is true that the confrontation with Luke is a pivotal moment in Ben’s fall, but that doesn’t mean that he wasn’t already learning from Snoke, much like Anakin did from Palpatine.
Also, what the hell does Leia know? She wasn’t there, Luke went into hiding and Ben ran off. Is it not possible that she simply jumped to her own conclusions?
There are legitimate critiques about The Last Jedi, this is not one of them.
Without the backstory, I assume Snoke now tempted Ben through a similar fashion as he connected him with Rey.
Or Leia simply never blamed Luke as much as he blamed himself if she did know. The truth is Ben was already tempted by Snoke when Luke sensed darkness in him, so, from a certain point of view, she’s not wrong either.
There is time between the incident of Luke and Ben and the eventual hiding of the former. The Knights of Ren in the rain scene occur in that period, for example. So, in some moment obviously Luke and Leia meet and he explains her what happened. Meet or communicate in some form.
The movies don’t make that explicit, that there is that time extent, but we can use logic. When Ben confront Luke again in that rainny scenario, he is already in full Kylo regalia. Time passed. When Luke finally understood that he “failed”, he decided to remove himself.
Funny, how Luke even addresses this, by saying “Leia said, it was Snoke’s fault, but I knew, it was mine” …
Luke says in the movie that he “probed” Ben’s mind because he suspected Ben was already being “tempted” by Snoke, and his reaction (igniting his lightsaber) was the tipping point that pushed Ben to “completely” give in to the dark side.
Pays no attention to dialogue in film; claims something clearly explained is a legit plot hole.
Pays no attention to dialogue in film; claims something clearly explained is a legit plot hole.
…… LOL.
I want you to reread what you just said. Then think about what transpired in VIII that you just referenced. Then try and put two and two together.
Just one more time. Before I school you in front of everyone on these forums.
“This is why the stock complaint of plot hole is rarely taken seriously”
.
God, what an insufferable jackoff. Pablo, did you notice that half of the things you were asked in this one, small, self-selected random sampling you had to resort to “huh, good question. Can’t explain it – moving on”?
Nope. Tally is 16 bad arguments, and 7 that Pablo concedes either have marginal merit or are good questions (3 of which in a row are from TESB). That’s fewer than 1/3.
Insufferable jackoff…I like it… I like it…
entitlement intensifies.
He became a smug little prick once Lucas left….imo
Bob Iger calls Pablo in for a sit-down…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=StIcRH_e6zQ
There are a few plot holes that are easy to close.
1. Leia says her mother died when she was young and she has faint memories of her being said. This is true. Her adopted mother died when she was still young and that is what she remembers.
2. The Death Star could not destroy Yavin because it’s not a rocky planet. It’s a gas giant. The laser would likely have gone through it and then been absorbed by the pressure, and gravity. The moon had a perfect shield from the Death Star by staying behind that planet.
3. It takes years for Luke to become a full fledged Jedi Knight. After his failure at Bespin, he learned his lesson and took his time. Luke went back to Dagobah and trained for several more years with Yoda before he was ready to attempt his rescue of Han. (ESB came out in 1980 and RotJ in 1983)
I will add one more that I would like to have seen addressed but I think there is a possible answer.
Who was Anakin’s father?
1 Shmi didn’t know because of one simple reason. She was a slave girl. Where do you think as a slave girl she worked?…. If this was brought up it may have cost the movie it’s PG13 rating. When Qui-Gon asked her who the father was she said, “There was no father” because for her there never was a father. Whoever he was was not there to raise Anakin. This man simply visited her, and impregnated her and left. Likely he never knew he had a son and Shmi never knew for sure which man was the father, thus from her “point of view” there was no father. After it was discovered Shmi was pregnant her master at that time sold her as she was no longer of any use in a bordello. I suspect after Anakin was born the two were sold several times before they came to be the property of Watto.
Shmi say specifically “There was no father.” Not that she didn’t know who the father was.
I’ll stand by my opinion as there was “no father” because she didn’t know which one was the father.
Obviously trying to draw a parallel with that other well known fictional character Jesus
When you watch TPM do you have 1970s funky music going on when you see Shmi. You dirty boy you!
Well I am a saxophone player. But no, no I did not you Happy Little Cloud you… Now go home before your mommy gets worried. 😉
loolz
It’s not a matter of opinion. Not yours, not mine, not anyone else. It’s what actually happens in the film. When Qui Gon refers to Anakin as a “vergence of the Force” and Mace Windu reacts with shock…
“I have encountered a vergence in the Force.” – QG
“Located around a person?” -M
“A boy. His cells have the highest concentration of midi-chlorians I have ever seen in a lifeform… It is possible he was conceived by midi-chlorians.” -QG
It’s not a matter of opinion. Not yours, not mine, not anyone else. It’s what actually happens in the film. When Qui Gon refers to Anakin as a “vergence of the Force” and Mace Windu reacts with shock…
“I have encountered a vergence in the Force.” – QG
“Located around a person?” -M
“A boy. His cells have the highest concentration of midi-chlorians I have ever seen in a lifeform… It is possible he was conceived by midi-chlorians.” -QG
PS- Leia is talking about her “real” mother. That is made painfully clear in the dialogue between her and Luke “Leia, do you remember your mother? Your real mother?”
ah yeah
Her adopted mother didn’t die young. I’m sure she makes an appearance in the book ‘From a Certain Point of View’, she gets blown up by the Death Star.
Yes you’re right she didn’t and yes she is in that book.
I cant quote that book because I’ve never read it so from my “point of view” it’s possible Liea’s adopted mother died young and thats the only mother she ever really knew.
The book is canon though so that’s what happened. And as someone has just pointed out above, she’s also in Leia: Princess of Alderaan. Both good books and worth a read. I recommend you take a look.
The book is canon though so that’s what happened. And as someone has just pointed out above, she’s also in Leia: Princess of Alderaan. Both good books and worth a read. I recommend you take a look.
Na… I’ll just wait for the movie.
The point of view tha matters is the POV of the authors. They write the story, so what they want to count, counts. We can’t discuss what is fact with wishful thinking.
Yup. Leia’s mom is also in “Princess of Alderaan”. Read it, it’s fairly descent. Next time wait until you have a chance to look at Wookieepedia. Also there is some claims that Leia remembers Padme because she was always a Force user, which I guess could technically explain it, but it doesn’t satisfy me at all.
Didn’t look at Wookieepedia buddy, so drop the attitude. I’ve read “From A Certain Point of View” but its not a story that I recall with clarity.
Your point 3 is wrong. Although it’s 3 years between TESB & ROTJ coming out in real time, it’s actually only about a year in the Galaxy. ROTJ is set 4 years ABY.
Officialy there is only 6 months between ESB e ROTJ. Leeland Chee said that. I always tought it was one year too, but it is half.
Pablo Hidalgo is really wasting his time answering things he hasn’t got the slightest idea about. Say what you want about the previous Star Wars movies, OT and prequels, but the stories were way more well-developed and fleshed out and had a more elaborate narrative than the garbage that Disney is churning out which is not supported in any way by a solid story that can be followed through. TLJ was really the spark that lit the fire that burned it all down.
Let’s not hate on Disney, people here do not like that. But, is really too much to ask to at least have the trilogy sort of sketched-out? How can anyone in their right mind think of doing three movies (or books, or what have you) that tell one story, completely disjointed production-wise? Maybe Rian should’ve consulted with Kasdan on some of the most important points for TLJ. (Pro Disney people, please don’t bring here the argument of “But, they didn’t know what ESB was going to be after ANH”) you DON’T know that, you can’t read Lucas’s mind, surely he had at least some ideas inside that marvelous mind of his, even before ANH came out. (Why did he let Vader live?)
Rian should only have directed the movie.Someone else should have handled the writing part. He’s a terrible writer. And I agree that the full trilogy should have been sketched out from the outset. Damage has been done. There’s not way it can be reversed.
I could agree with that. The movie was a little weird, but the characters were absolutely great. Rian should direct, not write.
Lucas never sketched out any of his trilogies. A real fan would know that.
So what? Lucas is brilliant, noone at Disney has 1/10 the brain pan as Lucas. So again whats your point?
That’s false and reductive and barely worthy of response.
The point, so easy to follow, is that they are doing it the way Lucas did.
And are doing a really bad job of it. Again THEY ARENT LUCAS! They should have had a story laid out among all 3 movies before they even started. Had they done that we wouldnt have had TFA with all its OT rip offs and we wouldnt have had a bunch of useless main characters that have zero back story and who very few people give a crap about.
And are doing a really bad job of it. Again THEY ARENT LUCAS! They should have had a story laid out among all 3 movies before they even started. Had they done that we wouldnt have had TFA with all its OT rip offs and we wouldnt have had a bunch of useless main characters that have zero back story and who very few people give a crap about.
And are doing a really bad job of it. Again THEY ARENT LUCAS! They should have had a story laid out among all 3 movies before they even started. Had they done that we wouldnt have had TFA with all its OT rip offs and we wouldnt have had a bunch of useless main characters that have zero back story and who very few people give a crap about.
Lucas wasn’t perfect, so…shrug.
Zero backstory? Most people do care. You are untethered from reality, friend.
Well – the last thing I read on such things suggested Lucas’s vision for VII would of been elements from what we got in VII and VIII.
That being said I totally agree on a rough sketch, just look at how well Marvel is doing with some kind of plan. LF are way behind on the curve in development, what worked before isn’t working now IMO.
People are entitled to their opinions. But this is a discussion forum. Where people come to discuss things.
So when you post HAR HAR HAR EPISODE VIII IS FULL OF PLOT HOLES CAUSE RJ CANT WRITE HAR HAR HAR
And when intelligent, rational, critical thinkers are able to argue that point you butt hurters get even more butt hurt.
You didn’t like the movie. That’s fine. I cannot argue that.
Telling me it’s a poorly made movie is a point I can argue all day long, and make you look dumb in the process.
Let me give you an example.
Yes, I can tell you that ESB was not what Lucas had in mind directly after ANH.
https://www.cbr.com/movie-legends-revealed-was-splinter-of-the-minds-eye-nearly-a-star-wars-movie-sequel/
ANH was made as a stand alone movie. The fact it began in the middle of a story was an artistic choice by Lucas to reflect the Buck Rogers serials he grew up watching in the movie theater. In fact, starting in the middle of a story has a neat name for it; In media res. It’s Latin, I’m telling you that because I know you wouldn’t know yourself given your penchant for displaying your ignorance here time and again.
Lucas was an artsy fartsy disciple of Francis Ford Coppola. Guy wasn’t worried about the money, he wanted to express himself in film.
Then Star Wars exploded. Dude changed. Happens.
But maybe you should research before you talk out of your ass. Just saying.
You just referred to yourself as an “intelligent, rational, critical thinker”
I swear to God I’ve missed you so fucking much.
Amazing. Every word you just said was right.
you mean the death wish?
Millenial progtards can’t get enough of the new Disney-fied Star Wars.
Millenial progtards can’t get enough of the new Disney-fied Star Wars.
Still wishing you dead.
Tell me what is Disney-fied about new Star Wars ONCE YOU HAVE YOUR OWN OPINIONS!!!
You people really need to stop throwing up the “well Lucas didnt know what he was going to do either…” excuse. Do you not get the fact that DISNEY IS NOT GEORGE LUCAS? George Lucas is fricking brilliant, the guy CREATED STAR WARS. He created his own multi billion dollar empire. He was completely capable of making it up as he went along and have it be good.
Disney is not. They should have had this trilogy worked out before they started making these movies because what they have done with the franchise is a disgrace. As bad as TFA was I thought there was no way in hell TLJ could end up worse, but alas it is worse.
There is no hope for the last movie. Way too much stuff to wrap up and a director whose first movie in the series was a plotless and ripped off house fire.
When are you gonna watch the PT and realize that Lucas wasn’t always brilliant and the best of Star Wars was when he worked with others and not solo?
He was brilliant until he made the Prequels. Then he showed himself to be less than.
And what do you mean by “You people”
if they’d planned it out i’d bet it’d been dull and predictable. keeps it fresh the current modus operandi imo
Seriously? Is this supposed to be an actual argument? How old are you? The fact is, Lucas DID NOT HAVE anything sketched out after Star Wars. NOTHING. Zero. Zilch. I was alive for it all in 1977 (7 years old) and he had nothing. He had to make it up as he went.
Vader lived because he’s the villain. In the old cinema films of the 30s and 40s (which it is imitating to some extent) the villain misses out on the hero and cry’s “curses, foiled again!” as he shakes his fist at the good guys.
Do some research into it before you start saying we can’t read Lucas’ mind. You don’t need to. Read “The Secret History of Star Wars” by Michael Kaminski. It will open your eyes about the reality of what Lucas was doing. He actually did the research into the interviews given back at the time.
Rinzler’s “Making of…” books also make it quite clear that Lucas had very little mapped out as he went forward with his sequels to Star Wars. People that get up in arms because Lucasfilm does not have a complete story outline for the ST and then compare this to Lucas’s creative process have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about.
There’s a fundamental difference though in having one guy guiding the story, film to film as it may have been, and basically giving three different directors (which was the plan) three pieces of a trilogy and going “do whatever you feel like” with them. They’re not comparable scenarios.
There’s a fundamental difference though in having one guy guiding the story, film to film as it may have been, and basically giving three different directors (which was the plan) three pieces of a trilogy and going “do whatever you feel like” with them. They’re not comparable scenarios.
That’s a better point.
Certainly there a difference, but it need not be a fundamental one. But that’s sort of beside the point that I was addressing: that neither Lucas nor Lucasfilm had a story treatment for continuing episodes.
“…you DON’T know that, you can’t read Lucas’s mind, surely he had at least some ideas inside that marvelous mind of his…”
So…we can’t read Lucas’s mind, but you can?
There was Splinter of the Mind’s Eye. So, for sure, Leia being Luke’s sister was not yet foreseen at that point.
ESB is not what Lucas had in mind at all.
Of course no piece of artwork, especially if it involves many people, will come out 100% as the creator intended, but I’ve read many books that say that it came out pretty close.
Yeap. Someone on the Lucasfilm Story Group has no idea what he’s talking about when it comes to Star Wars.
Nope. None. Not at all. His whole job doesn’t have anything to do with knowing anything about the Saga or every story ever weaved into or from it.
Zero. Zilch. Wait..Why does..why does this sound more like you, than Pablo?
how can you say that when you haven’t seen the F#$%ing conclusion to the story. thats like seeing Harry Potter 6 and saying that you know all the answers
All you do is hate on films you actually like just for some attention online. And what do you mean they have bad story? The Force Awakens, Rogue One and The Last Jedi have great characters and amazing story arcs for said characters within their time on screen, you just have to look for it in stead of whining all day. Pablo knows more about Star Wars than you ever will.
“amazing story arcs…”
You should just stop commenting. You obviously wouldnt know a good story arc if it bit you in the but. There is NO story arc for any of these characters. At least not one that is any good. Disney has ruined this franchise.
*butt
You can dislike it, but saying there is no arc means you can’t really watch movies.
Pablo knows more about Star Wars than you do.
How did Luke get past the blockade? Cos he’s Luke $%&*ing Skywalker. That’s how.
Yeah that makes sense… lol
yeah
I’d say it’s quite easy to explain, and is even referred back to in The Last Jedi. The Falcon leaves Hoth before Luke, drawing all the attention away from the rest of the ships that are leaving. Remember, Vader was this close… he probably had his troops radio the fleet and order them to get that ship at all costs. As Finn says in TLJ, “they really hate that ship.” Easy explanation. Surprised Pablo didn’t see that.
Yep. I just watched ESB again (for the 50th time) the other day. While the Empire is obviously in the Hoth system to weaken the rebels, it is obvious from the get-go that Vader’s only reason for being there is to find Luke. It says so explicitly in the opening, I believe.
And when the Millennium Falcon appears on their scopes, it’s the only ship Vader is interested in, and he has every star destroyer pursuing it, because he thinks Luke’s on it. Luke, the other fighter pilots, and the last transport appear to escape without further pursuit.
Could it be that he feels Luke he’s in here because Leia is and he doesn’t know yet he had twins? In that case I guess your hypothesis would make perfect sense.
I had always assumed the Tie Bombers were shooting ION charges to disable the Falcon, not destroy it. We do see that huge ION cannon hitting the Star Destroyer and messing it up.
Let’s talk about the Tie-bombers in Empire. What was the point of them? Bombing your enemy will not scare them out into making a move to the open. It will force them to go deeper under ground. Then there’s the risk that the bombs actually hit the target and kill the intended. Yet, Vader wanted the Falcon’s crew alive.
Makes no sense.
Can someone actually point out some plot holes in the last jedi? U r allowed to not think a movie is good, but i have yet to see any actual plot holes be described.
(Keep in mind in actually like TLJ please)
The one thing that really seemed odd to me, and I’m not saying it is truely a plot hole, is that Finn wanted to leave the Resistance fleet in order to get the beacon away so Rey wouldn’t be comming back to a doomed situation and yet he gives the beacon to Poe before leaving for Canto Bight.
I find this strange given that even with their new plan the chances of the fleet are still very (VERY) low at best. It might have made more sense for Finn to take the beacon with him to Canto Bight.
I’m just not sure how to explain this. But one might say he just truely believed in this plan or that he now felt that Poe had a better chance of keeping the beacon out of harm’s way then he did himself.
Ya know…theres two problems with the modern audience here..one..if its not shown on screen, then to them it never happend…and god forbid they have to do a bit of thinking and take other elements into consideration….
One thing that people mislabel a “plot hole” is when a character makes a mistake or says something that isn’t true. People “remembering” events that they didn’t actually witness is quite common and easily explains Leia’s statement about her mother.
During the original/prequel trilogy, I don’t recall George Lucas “answering and explaining” on a daily basis.
Rian Johnson needs a late night show at this point as I see him everyday explaining this movie on Social Media.
Unfortunately, Rian Johnson has to because idiots on the internet say that The Last Jedi is terrible because it has a few leaps of logic, most of which are easily explainable.
he should block them, or just call them names
Um no he has to constantly explain it because the movie stinks and is a complete train wreck. People want to know how the hell he could have messed it up so bad.
Selective memory you have, yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgBpoiC8qGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68dvgRT3Kx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz-SaMu8k3w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIfDjaJL_IU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pbRGtWkHWg
Or you know, crack open any of the extra features on any movie where he also spends hours and hours explaining everything. A lot of which contradicts his earlier explanations.
But I would expect a REAL Star Wars Fan to know this.
Because he didn’t have to! It was in an era where people felt like they didn’t attention by bashing a film.
The internet was not the phenomenon that is now. There were no millions of fans and “fans” in facebook, youtube, twitter, reddit and so on scrutinizing every aspect and sending questions straight to him as we can do now.
We live in the era of internet, and hate… Now everyone can put oppinions online, and the majority focus on negative ones. I don’t know what’s the pleasure of that…
Mas amedda: we have a crisis on our hands, we need to give the chancellor emergency powers.
Jimmy Smits: the Senate will never allow the creation of an army!
Very next scene:
Jar jar: *makes rambling speech to Senate that is barely coherent*
-Senate immediately votes palpatine emergency powers without objection.
15 years later and I still don’t understand the point of that plot line nor why it had to be jar jar.
Are you KIDDING?
Jar Jar doing that was Lucas trolling all the people who hated Episode I vocally.
He took him out of the film (and I guarantee you he wanted him in all three) almost completely but made sure that anyone who referenced the Clone Wars in the future had to admit that Jar Jar Binks was the one responsible for starting it.
So basically, he cut off his nose to spite his face?
Dude, he loved Jar Jar. Still does. He was offended other people didn’t like his brilliant idea.
I know. It was a very weird hill for him to choose to die on. Anyways, that sequence still doesn’t make sense to me.
I think Organa just didn’t believe his Democracy had been lost to populism yet. He had faith that the people of the Republic and the Senate didn’t want war.
The other bit from that sequence is that no one in the Senate seemed to want to be the one to make the proposal to vote on. To be remembered as the Senator who ushered war onto the Galaxy.
Palpating needed a patsy, which is why he asked “But who would call for such a vote? If only Senator Amidala were here. Sounding defeated and as if his cause was lost.
Palpatine was the Senator from Naboo prior to Padme and she once thought of him as an ally prior to growing suspicious of him in Episode II. Jar Jar is a Gungan and of Naboo.
So, out of loyalty to his home world, his people, his allies the Naboo and Padme and her own political affiliates Jar Jar did what he thought best.
Proposing the Democratically elected leader of the Republic be given totalitarian control of the government and the funds to create a military that would morph into the first Galactic Empire.
I really dont see any plot hole in this particular situation. It was also explained by multiple people here and this one is well written.
It was a simple political manipulation and Jar
Jar was the best target – the whole scene gives in opposite to a plot hole absolutely logical sense.
The choice in character made the entire event less impactful. Imagine if Lucas had written a scene where Palpatine convinced Organa to do it.
To convince Organa, Palpatine would had to use the force and also anyone close to Bail would be wondering why he decided so.
One could say he even made sure Jar Jar was right there as a “temporary” senator from Naboo.
Attempting to kill Padme did two things,
One get her off Naboo so patsy Jar Jar could be swayed to propose the Military Creation Act, and Two, perhaps get Anakin and Padme together.
Where else could she turn to for protection except the Jedi?
Fourth dimensional chess, indeed
Nice post. Thank you.
Remember Lucas in the Episode 1 documentary, “Jar Jar is the key.”
Remember Lucas in the Episode 1 documentary, “Jar Jar is the key.”
he’s a funnier character then we’ve had before.
Lol. Linked that in another post.
The special editions were his ultimate spiteful revenge. He made sure to spit in all our eyes before he went down lol.
Don’t like the PT eh? Think I ruined your childhood? You wont accept these films as canon? Well then… enjoy my special edits that crowbar in PT connections and especially things like the hated “NoooOOoooOooo!”
He won the bitterness war. Harmy at least tried to save the old films.
It was Lucas paralleling the Reichstag fire, which gave Hitler emergency powers and allowed him to at last fully become dictator of Germany. Per Palpatine’s manipulation, Jar Jar just kinda expedited things along.
thats a nice allegory, but it doesn’t change the sequence of events. everyone had the pertinent info that obi wan delivered, yet jimmy smits still said no way. then jar jar gives a speech and suddenly is no more issue, no more opposition.
thats a nice allegory, but it doesn’t change the sequence of events. everyone had the pertinent info that obi wan delivered, yet jimmy smits still said no way. then jar jar gives a speech and suddenly is no more issue, no more opposition.
Bail is an optimist who believes in the Republic, and my impression is that he’s, like Obi-Wan, suspicious of Palpatine’s exact motives. HE may not think the senate would be stupid enough to grant Palpatine emergency dictatorial powers – that doesn’t mean he’s right. He underestimated people’s general willingness to trade freedom for safety when facing a crisis.
thats his and padme’s problem in a nutshell. they talk a big game but when bad things are happening they don’t do anything. bail didn’t get up and give a counter speech or anything against the army he felt so strongly about. we don’t see him again until the very end when he is just looking sad and defeated. ditto in revenge of the sith when padme saying this how liberty dies when palpatine declares the empire. don’t bother getting up and making a speech padme. just sit there and watch. i sure it will all be fine.
You hit it exactly on the head. How quickly people forget. That whole scene was a political point made by Lucas about George Bush and the move to go to war with Iraq. If you put the whole thing in that frame of mind it all makes sense.
I think Palpatine just needed a dope to table the proposal. Jar Jar is intended to represent an easily manipulated but well intending simpleton out of his depth in politics – the person you would least expect to be involved in something sinister.
Once the proposal is on the table, Palpatine uses the force to manipulate any woulld be naysayers in the senate into making the decision he wants.
Organa did not consider that the senate was already in the pocket of the dark lord – he did not even know about the dark lord.
That’s my take on it, just without Palpatine using the Force. Manipulative politics doesn’t need such magic to work in the hands of the right politician.
I should have read your reply first, exactly what I was thinking
Darth Tyrumpus certainly worked some magic against Darth Curlintanus.
I dont think he needed the Force, seems like the senate was pretty dysfunctional and was ripe for a master manipulator to come along
Could be – we do not know what happened behind closed doors between the various characters. He had basically infiltrated and taken control of the senate – using the force as he required.
any one could have made that speech apparently as the senate was so overwelmingly swayed by this nobody who barely makes any sense in what he says. and if palpatine was just using the force(the great catch all excuse) why bother with the dog and pony show. they should have just voted on it without so much a single senator questioning them.
i submit that if lucas was hell bent on jar jar being the key to palpatine’s rise in power, he should had it be that jar jar cast the deciding vote for emergency powers. a vote that padme never would have made but palpatine manipulated him into taking. that would have made the previous scenes of a vigorous opposition still make sense and still let jar jar be the dupe for palpatine and even be a little more dramatic, i dare say.
For me it was more that he engineered Padme to be out of the way, and capitalize on the opportuntity of her absence to simultaneously use the pathetic JarJar from the victim planet Naboo to raise the motion and also throw Anakin together with his love interest.
Getting rid of padme is great but she wasn’t the only opposition to the motion. And I just can’t buy that they would suddenly drop their opposition because a cartoon rabbit said so. I mean, it was said earlier that the army debate had been going on for over a year. IDK, it’s details that really drive me bonkers sometimes.
I don’t see what the problem there is. Senator Organa just underestimated the Senate.
because its literally the next scene. it seems like there is going to be a political showdown over this and then the whole plotline simply disappears so we can get to the war.
From Google.
“In fiction, a plot hole, plothole or plot error is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story’s plot. Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.”
I feel like there’s quite a few low info mouth breathers on these forums who need that definition highlighted for them to form arguments that sound as if they were derived from a working brain rather than an extra on the set of the Walking Dead.
I don’t trust Google, it’s part of the deep state. I only use Ask Jeeves.
NO! I WAS LIED TO!?!?!?
DuckDuckGo. Nice and simple.
They didn’t ask this doozy from AotC. After getting knocked out of the ship while pursuing Dooku, how did Padme know about “THAT hangar” ?
Because she was briefed in between scenes, while they were chasing Dooku?
Briefed about what? They were chasing his & they didn’t know where. Also, in the accident that injured her Dooku could’ve been shot down for all she knew. It’s a mistake in the script.
well that and the 10 story fall out of a moving ship
Padme would be fine. After all, she landed in sand. And everybody knows sand is soft and fluffy… and course… and irritating… and it…gets…everywhere. Nevermind. She’s dead.
Wait, the clones could not communicate from distance?
Watch the scene. We see her knocked out & then wake up. No time to learn any info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwUAb5EFimQ
It was in visible distance from the ship she fell from.
Nope. They traveled a long way after that.
But we do not know the planet’s radius and can therefore make no assumption as to whether they disappeared over the horizon or not when they travelled a long way. 😉
I agree of course
in revenge of the sith: its revealed after obi wan and yoda returned to the jedi temple post order 66 that they had security footage of palpatine’s office the whole time. why did they need anakin to spy on him then? why did they have no clue what palps was up to?
I doubt he ever blurted out an entire evil monologue in his private chambers that he more than likely realized was being filmed. That’s why evil masterminds have secret lairs
they literally watch him dub anakin as darth vader. and i ask again, if they have a camera in his office, why bother sending anakin to spy on him?
Even better — why didn’t Yoda simply use the QRS11 chip to disable Palpy’s blade?
That was from the Jedi Temple.
After Vader completed the raid on the Temple, to be exact.
Are you serious?! You know he practiced “UNLIMITED POWER!!!” every chance he got!
I only have one lingering question from that scene,
Did Palps always look like that and just dropped the facade after he knew he had Anakin? Like Mace was never a threat and just played it like he was weak to spur Anakin into a fast irrational decision.
Or did the force lightning really disfigure him?
I’d like to think the grand master manipulator never was in real danger from the Jedi, but just an act
The Stupendous Wave has a video talking about this (using legends stuff). As he explains it might be a mixture of both.
Here it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfsde0az5FY
I always thought he was acting to get Anakin to act.
I alwyas understand that this was footage from the Temple, not Chancellor’s office. Palpatine visited the Temple after the siege was won.
No, such a thing is not revealed. It’s revealed there are security recordings from the Jedi temple. At no point is it said that there are security recordings at Palpatine’s office
is that right? i might be having a mandela effect moment. if so i withdraw the point.
Obi-wan and yoda do see a recording very similar to what we as the audience see earlier when Anakin turns, If the location in the Hologram is the Jedi Temple after the slaughter, then it seems to portray Anakin kneeling again before his new master, after perhaps being praised for his work?
most likely yes. but as you say the two scenes look so similar.
I agree. They should have made a bigger difference between the two scenes.
I’m so glad Hidalgo himself addressed these questions. Whoever wrote that article/questions seems like someone hell bent on proving to the world how much he hates the prequels.
nah, they just hate Star Wars
So many “fans” do.
Why would you say this? He knows far more about Star Wars than you ever will.
Luke met a bantha on Hoth that suggested that he should fly to the far side of the planet and then, while still in Hoth’s atmosphere, blast into hyperspace towards Dagobah (or as close to it as possible). Banthas are smart.
Banthat’s a fact.
When I heard the name Pablo Hildalgo for the first time, that’s when Star Wars really began to go off the tracks.
Fake fan
He should really provide us with the criteria for being a “REAL” Star Wars fan. Let’s see a list! That should prove to be entertaining.
1. Hate Star Wars
2.be a dick
3. Misunderstand everything
3. Pretend you understand Star Wars, when you don’t.
I know a few people are calling Hidalgo a jerk and a blight on Star Wars, but I’m actually glad he’s addressing this. Too many people like to scream “plot hole” at something that isn’t just to prove their own, often irrational, points. As he points out, some questions are actually good ones too. I would also agree that, if you really think about it, ESB really is the film with the most plot holes in the franchise.
If people really want to to see plot holes in a recent film, though, I would suggest watching Batman v. Superman. Most of the film’s developments actually depend on characters’ stupidity and plot holes (and the Ultimate Edition doesn’t really address them).
Theres plenty of real things wrong with Starwars, TLJ just has far too many holes and dumb choices. Rey being a perfect over powered nobody and needing only a single talk or two to become a Jedi being one of them.
I always wanted Luke to succeed. I just ant Rey to get her legs cut off and killed to prove being a Jedi isn’t as easy as simply Googling achient Jedi Text
Theres plenty of real things wrong with Starwars, TLJ just has far too many holes and dumb choices. Rey being a perfect over powered nobody and needing only a single talk or two to become a Jedi being one of them.
I always wanted Luke to succeed. I just ant Rey to get her legs cut off and killed to prove being a Jedi isn’t as easy as simply Googling achient Jedi Text
Nah
LOL, I love the googling reference. I think it would have been fitting if Rey posted a pic of her and Luke on Facebook and Kylo Ren sees it and knows where they are hiding. Luke would be like, “I told you not to tag me on Social Media! You stupid millenials!!!!!”
You know what, YOU CAN RIP APART ANY MOVIE FOR PLOT HOLES AND MAKE IT LOOK BAD, EVEN THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK!!! STOP TEARING APART THE LAST JEDI!!! THERE ARE SOME LEGITIMATE ISSUES BUT NEARLY ALL OF THEM ARE NOT PLOT HOLES!!!
You know what, YOU CAN RIP APART ANY MOVIE FOR PLOT HOLES AND MAKE IT LOOK BAD, EVEN THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK!!! STOP TEARING APART THE LAST JEDI!!! THERE ARE SOME LEGITIMATE ISSUES BUT NEARLY ALL OF THEM ARE NOT PLOT HOLES!!!
as oppossed to luke who spent 24 hours in a swamp with Yoda and became the all powerful Luke….
No, it was a few thousand years as that’s how long it would have taken the Falcon to get to Bespin without hyperdrive!! In seriousness though Pablo said in the past that it took the Falcon about a month to get to Bespin so, at least that long. I would imagine it was intense training as well as Luke was his only pupil.
“Rey being a perfect over powered nobody and needing only a single talk or two to become a Jedi being one of them”
The argument made by anyone who is not capable/willing to look between the lines. Here is a list of some of her shortcomings:
– Reluctant to let go of the past.
– Painfully gullible when spoken about the force.
– Considers beating a wounded Kylo a victory, so in other words naive.
– Worships a man she has never met.
– In denial about who she really is (a nobody)
Also, the fact that she is not related to anyone else makes her one of the most approachable Force users in the saga. Bringing back the original idea presented on the original trilogy (before the prequels changed it), that anyone willing to reach into the Force can learn to use it.
Also nobody said that Rey was a Jedi(yet). All that was said was that Luke would not be the last one. As far as I can see Rey is closer to Chirrut than she is to Yoda in the force user scale. So also keep in mind the term “Jedi” is very liberal in every regard.
I agree especially with your point on bringing back the original idea of the OT.
I also like your last point. Rey isn’t a Jedi yet. As I recall Luke didn’t say she was, nor did he say he wasn’t the last Jedi alive at this point. When he talks to Kylo I rememberl him saying something along the lines of “I will not be the last Jedi”. This makes me understand it more as Luke considering that she will be a Jedi someday even if she isn’t at this stage.
Exactly, you can even take it a step further. Luke was saying not only is he not the Last Jedi, but the Jedi itself won’t die with the Skywalker lineage. Rey is a nobody, and so is that kid at the end with the broom. That’s the beauty of The Last Jedi, it re-introduces The Force as an open thing for anyone to access if they make the effort. Something the original trilogy suggested.
It was the prequels that made us believe that you are born with it and if you’re not then you will never be in touch with the Force. And if your parents are force users, then you’re guaranteed to be a Force user. I personally always HATED this idea because it made the Force seem like this Omnipotent entity that is essentially a God who created an elitist environment in the galaxy.
The Force became too much like a God. The Last Jedi reminds everyone that is not. Is just an energy that flows through everything in the universe. And if willing to try, you can tap into it.
I think that was essentially the point Lucas wanted to get across in the prequels, that the Jedi had lost their way and so became easier prey for Palpatine’s machinations. Luke even rightly calls them out on it in TLJ.
I want to believe that, but then why did George introduce midichlorians? It just feel like he tried to undo the concept of the Force being available to anyone. To make it just for the few.
He probably did it just to write in an easy way to single out Anakin as special and powerful in the Force without having him do too much.
I never got that the Force itself was ever made elitist, though. The Jedi Order had to find children and bring them in from anywhere and everywhere. It never excluded anyone from being neither Jedi nor Sith, but those two forces are the only ones really relevant to the story being told.
Incidentally, the only known case of strength in the Force being passed down is from the OT, not the PT.
In the OT Vader just became the source-power from which Luke (and Leïa) got his (their) strengh.
In the PT they had to find a sort of explanation for Anakin’s power. They could only choose between three possible options:
1) He was born of the Force itself (which is what they chose)
2) His father was powerful as well, which would’ve implied Force abilities are “always” past down through generations. And then there would’ve been the eternal question: What about his father’s story?
3) He was nobody (a much better origin in my opinion so I enjoyed it being used for Rey)
“TLJ has far too many holes and dumb choices…”
You should write movie reviews.
I like Pablo’s point about Snoke. Something we “don’t understand or don’t know yet isn’t a plot hole”.
This goes out to everybody. We still have one movie left in the trilogy to tackle some questions we still have.
Lord Of The Rings didn’t answer the background of Gollum till the third installment. So, chill out! 🙂
that would be a great way to walk back Snokes death
show him teaching his young apprentice Palpatine,and explaining how he cannot be killed, and if he is struck down, his mastery of the Dark Side will insure his return.
Could explain his absence during the Galactic Civil War, maybe the effort takes some amount of time.
A good way to retcon the cheap death scene of last Jedi
Along those same lines, I’d like Kylo to try to be the big nasty of episode 9 and then Snoke rises form the ashes and seeks revenge on Kylo. Kylo then has to team up with the resistance/rebles to survive and the final battle is the rag tag group versus this quasi-immortal evil maniac. it might be interesting.
Yes, yes. I certainly dont agree that Star Wars is dead, just needs a little creativity to get back on track.
Could even satisfy to Reylo crowd like you suggest
Star Wars won’t die in the close future, that’s for sure.
It survived far worse than a couple of loud cretins like yourself…
I agree with you.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ea9283e5d7a355be48a5c917236c60055a14af0ddc6feede5caec34d9cf966fd.png
I wanna see that!
I think we all do.
aye, but I think with his ‘let the past die’ mantra, he’s going to at least change the colour of the curtains.
This was well done, and surely he’d change the curtain to a nice shade of Re…*cough*… Grey.
Ugh, no.
i don’t agree it was a cheap deatch scene, but i wouldn’t be opposed to the idea that Snoke can indeed cheat death and haunt Kylo after death, evn if it’s just as some kind of Dark Side entity/ghost/voice inside Kylo’s head.
If Snoke really can link force users’ minds together, maybe he can continue to exist as a voice inside their heads, something along these lines…
So if I understand correctly, in this scenario that you are thinking Snoke is Plagueis? I could be on board with that. Specially the part in which he keeps coming back from Death because he is that powerful.
I do disagree on the “cheap death”. It was awesome for me, a reminder to anyone in the galaxy not to talk down to a Solo/Skywalker.
Snoke actually looks like he has died a few times so I would not discount a Return of the Snoke. Palpatine just looked very wrinkly in comparison.
But then how to kill him…?
Strangely I am sure no one, not JJ, certainly not Rian, knows who Snoke is, why the scars or anything about his past. Some future employee of Disney will invent something but so far he could be just anybody.
I would agree with you if there was one writer for this Trilogy who was developing it, even if he or she was evolving it like Lucas did with the OT. The problem is JJ wrote Episode 7, and then let RJ worry about Episode 8 mystery boxes, and now RJ returned the favor with Episode 9. I have no confidence that any of this stuff will remotely be resolved in a satisfying way because they are literally writing this on the fly.
As far as I know the OT was written on the fly as well. Sure, there were treatments written by Lucas but the script changed a lot from what he originally planned.
Yup.
And yet they brought it all together in a satisfying, unified story with a beginning, middle and end and plot lines that extended through the whole thing.
We’ll find out in 2019 if Abrams can do the same.
Just because the two trilogies were (or are being) written “on the fly” doesn’t ensure similar results.
exactly, we will find out in 2019. So, I don’t understand all the hate toward TLJ because it’s, in fact, just the middle chapter. It’s not meant to conclude anything…
Except Abrams loved the VIII script.
and that’s a fact. Google it, guys!
Because Google is the ultimate truth to everything
“I have no confidence that any of this stuff will remotely be resolved in a satisfying way because they are literally writing this on the fly.” We will cross that bridge when we get to it in Episode 9…you could be right.
Personally, I don’t care about Snoke either way. I am on board to see what happens to Rey and Kylo mainly. Everyone else is a bonus.
gollum was still alive and integral to the plot going into return of the king. unless JJ decides to bring snoke back to do something meaningful, i don’t care about his backstory anymore.
Nor should you, he was a cheap Palpatine knock-off from the start.
If they show, how he turned Ben and by that moment explains, where he comes from, I cared. But I expect a whole book/comic about Snoke to be not of my interest, I agree.
It will probably be in a book or comic. Its doubtful it will be brought up in IX. Too much else to cover.
I dislike Pablo. He’s so smug about it and yet he displays the creativity of a platypus.
I dislike Pablo. He’s so smug about it and yet he displays the creativity of a platypus.
Never once seen him to be smug at all.
Pablo is another Lucasfilm toad as he is no different then a Press Secretary for a President of the US. He spins everything, as I still remember his quote right before ROTS came out in 2005 about Padme’s death and would it contradict the conversation with Luke and Leia in ROTJ:
“Leia’s recollections as described in Return of the Jedi have no inherent flaws and are valid given the greater context of the saga. But I suspect those looking for contradictions always find them.”
You have no idea if any of Lucasfilm’s employees are toads. They have a better life than screaming are whining on a keyboard.
The fact that he is taking the time and addressing the ‘whining and screaming’ fans tells me that their lives are no different. Kind of ironic huh?
ZIINNNNGG
The fact that he actually cares enough to take the time to respond to the whining and screaming fans says a lot about him and that he is definitely passionate about Star Wars just as much as the next hardcore Star Wars fan.
Even most Star Wars fans can’t even agree on everything so why would he agree with every negative point or question that some fans ask?
Really, it’s always a catch-22 for Pablo and you must realize this. He gets criticized for answering something because you can’t read the tone of his textual responses so he might intend the tweets to be genuinely nice but people think he sounds smug and condescending, but he also gets criticized for not answering a question if it’s something that fans want answered.
That’s incorrect. He is quite vocal about things that don’t fit and he does more than just answer inane questions, but whatever you like.
Pablo is another Lucasfilm toad as he is no different then a Press Secretary for a President of the US. He spins everything, as I still remember his quote right before ROTS came out in 2005 about Padme’s death and would it contradict the conversation with Luke and Leia in ROTJ:
“Leia’s recollections as described in Return of the Jedi have no inherent flaws and are valid given the greater context of the saga. But I suspect those looking for contradictions always find them.”
Copy and pasting? Come on dude.
Also, that was under Lucas. He has more freedom now.
You gotta give him credit, he’s on social media answering questions from angry nerds – which he doesn’t have to. He’s gotta be resisting the urge to tell a few of them to go screw themselves.
Being a prominent Lucasfilm employee must be like being a fan, on steroids. You tie not only your identity to a franchise but also your livelihood.
Being a prominent Lucasfilm employee must be like being a fan, on steroids. You tie not only your identity to a franchise but also your livelihood.
I think that he is bombarded with so much shit in internet that sometimes he must be a little ironic. When we read some things here, we can understand why he answers that way. I’m not saying he is right, but I can understand.
And he creates lots of things in SW. Various refference books were writtens by him.
Curious, did he write the book RJ blamed the avatar Luke on?
No, Daniel Wallace is the author.
I wish I knew this when I was defending my honours thesis: ‘Something you don’t know yet or understand isn’t a reference problem.’
For fictional universes and ongoing stories
Congrats Last Jedi for getting best score, sound design and visual design nominations from Academy Award Members
But, no love for Mark Hamill WTF?
Yeah. I don’t know. Whether or not we can agree on Luke’s story, I think we can all agree that Hamill gave an extraordinary performance.
I loved the music, the special effects were very good and the sound design ok, I thought the best film for sound design was Attack of the Clones, But Hamill took what he was given and ran with it, no doubt
I loved the music, the special effects were very good and the sound design ok, I thought the best film for sound design was Attack of the Clones, But Hamill took what he was given and ran with it, no doubt
they should get the visual effects award just for the haldo maneuver scene alone.
lol
i do want to say i’m glad we can still have these nerdy debates with the older films. hopefully one day we’ll get there with the new films as well.
agreed, how about this, something we were talking about at work:
Would a meeting between Han Solo and Vader in the solo film, go against what we have seen on screen before?
I think we are getting more Vader, but a substantial role like Rogue One, or a mere cameo?
Hopefully just a cameo. Hunting smugglers seems a little beneath him.
Oh dear God, every scene in TLJ is fatally flawed, how could anyone ever explain that? Aside from the atypical Rian Johnson catch all “We have a very full movie already there literally was just not room for another element…”
your comment is fatally flawed
The one thing I would ask Pablo, how come Rey didn’t know Poe in The Last Jedi? Their meeting was previously shown in the narration of the Force Awakens novelization. So what’s the deal here Pablo? Are things cannon in the books/comics until the next movie decides is not?
Now, I am a fan of how things are now with the franchise under Disney. But one of my few complains is this cannon thing. Either all of it is cannon or none of it. Don’t dick around with us.
The one thing I would ask Pablo, how come Rey didn’t know Poe in The Last Jedi? Their meeting was previously shown in the narration of the Force Awakens novelization. So what’s the deal here Pablo? Are things cannon in the books/comics until the next movie decides is not?
Now, I am a fan of how things are now with the franchise under Disney. But one of my few complains is this cannon thing. Either all of it is cannon or none of it. Don’t dick around with us.
Star Wars is fun, not pendantic.
you mean “pedantic”…
If so, it became that the moment they decided the property was going to extend to Transmedia storytelling and that said storytelling was canon. Consistency is important.
He’s already answered that. Search his Twitter feed.
Basic answer is if there is a conflict between film and novel, go with the film.
He’s already answered that. Search his Twitter feed.
Basic answer is if there is a conflict between film and novel, go with the film.
This isn’t the first time where when we hear about Snoke, we’re told we don’t know everything about him yet. Serkis also said we learn so little about him in TLJ. Going to be honest, it irks me when they say specific things like the character wouldn’t know that or the audience would or wouldn’t know something. It’s as if they pick and choose which situation to use a specific defense but can’t use the same defense to the same question in a different scene. It’s obviously important that we don’t know who Snoke is ‘yet’, but will know, then come across as condescending jerks when you tread near these topics.
Fuck right off Pablo. for this defending all of this bullshit. You can go suck the nipples of a Garlack or whatever the fuck
eloquent
If you worked at Lucasfilm, how would you respond to this?
I know if you worked here, you could call it “absurd” or “insipid”
http://gph.is/2qVurNr
I think a Thala-Siren is the ‘whatever the fuck’ your looking for.
Yum, tasty!
I watched TLJ to learn about snoke, his rise, his story and I got zilch. Disappointed.
Snoke is a secondary character. We didn’t learn more about Palpatine for 16 years. Or Dooku at all.
That’s like watching Empire Strikes Back to learn about the emperor. I didn’t really like the film either, but the Snoke complaints I really don’t understand.
I always thought that Leia was referring to Bail Organa’s wife, not Padme…