Collider Jedi Council! Will ‘Obi-Wan: A Star Wars Story’ Still Happen?, Should Dave Filoni Run The Lucasfilm Creative Team?

This week on Collider Jedi Council:
Kristian Harloff, Ken Napzok, and Perri Nemiroff discuss the Del Rey’s newly released timeline of Star Wars books; share their thoughts on the new international trailer and movie poster for ‘Solo: A Star Wars Story’; talk about the recent Star Wars Rebels episode’s – “Wolves And A Door” and “A World Between Worlds”; breakdown the new Han and Lando Novel, ‘Star Wars: Last Shot’; and analyze on whether or not Dave Filoni, the creator of Star Wars: The Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels, should run Lucasfilm’s creative team.





Collider’s team wants to hear your voices! Send your twitter questions and opinions to @ColliderVideo with the #ColliderJediCouncil. To check out more episodes from Jedi Council, check out their YouTube page.





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116 thoughts on “Collider Jedi Council! Will ‘Obi-Wan: A Star Wars Story’ Still Happen?, Should Dave Filoni Run The Lucasfilm Creative Team?

  • March 2, 2018 at 5:55 am

    I don’t get why Harloff always does the raspy voice for the intro, he forgets about it after a sentence or two at least

  • March 2, 2018 at 5:59 am

    Sadly, I don’t think the Obi Wan movie is happening. I think they are also “setting up” Han Solo to fail —- to use as justification to abandon the “spin offs” and jump start the Rian Johnson and GOT-guys Trilogies.

    • March 2, 2018 at 6:13 am

      I didn’t like the idea of a Solo movie when it was first announced but the trailers have got me interested again. I still don’t want a Kenobi movie just because I don’t want them to touch young Luke

      • March 2, 2018 at 6:10 pm

        I was one of the most vocal about not wanting it…and it still is a hard sale. But for me, after TLJ….I’m hoping that this Solo will bring something back that has been lost in this new era. I just hope that they play Solo as at least 10 to 15 years before ANH.

    • March 2, 2018 at 10:34 am

      I can’t see them wanting any of it to fail. Ron Howard certainly didn’t jump on board for a failure. Not saying his presence guarantees anything… but I believe they are all really trying here.

      It’s just a hard sell IMO.

    • March 2, 2018 at 12:54 pm

      I don’t believe any studio or company would set up a property to fail.

    • March 2, 2018 at 2:23 pm

      first time I see you say something NOT aimed as an attack against Rian Johnson or TLJ in weeks… good job!

  • March 2, 2018 at 9:22 am

    Been thinking this for a while now. I just don’t see a Kenobi movie happening anytime soon. Otherwise, it would have been confirmed by now.

    • March 2, 2018 at 6:07 pm

      agreed. I think TLJ has changed everything. And if Solo flops, then heads will role certainly.

  • March 2, 2018 at 9:34 am

    Another JC with Harloff ragging on half the content, particularly the details he has no insight on. He seems to start most of bia statements with, “my problem.with this is…” he used to be so upbeat, positive and optimistic! Remember when Campea used to be the contrary curmudgeon? Since he’s gone Harloff has become so grumpy and has taken that role. OK rant over!

    • March 2, 2018 at 10:45 am

      To be fair, Kristian can’t win – he gets called a ‘Disney shill’ by some folks ( he totally ISN’T ), and then he gets bashed for being critical – often rightly – of some of the Lucasfilm decisions.

      • March 2, 2018 at 12:30 pm

        Yeah I get that but do you remember how excited and energised he used to be? I used to love watching him but he juat seems so down on everything now. Plus he has blatently contradicted his personal views on TLJ several times now, like he’s just going along with thia week’s public opinion. I’ll bet that when this movie is seen as a xult classic in years to come he’ll claim he always thought so! 😉

        • March 2, 2018 at 12:44 pm

          He actually addresses the very point you make ( about his current scepticism ) during this episode – It’s the same scepticism that actually comes from a deep love of Star Wars ( just like the whole Dash Star issue, who himself is highly critical now/disillusioned by the management of SW ).

          I don’t know if I would regard Kristian’s views on TLJ as contradictory, but for me personally, I don’t see TLJ being regarded as a ‘cult classic’ anytime soon.

          I do believe that KK should run Lucasfilm, but Creative Control of the STAR WARS brand should be overseen by someone else. She is no Kevin Feige for me.

          • March 2, 2018 at 9:57 pm

            Yeah you’re right, he did address this, and I think maybe (hopefully) he’s cottoning on to how he may be beginning to be perceived (not least by grumpy t@ts like me!) by the Jedi Council fanbase. I’ve been watching since way before TFA and have never missed an episode (and Campea used to drive me up the wall, believe me!) so I really am not just trying to tear the guy down. When he’s on point he is effing on point! Just, like I say, lately….

            And yeah TLJ becoming cult… yeah I am genuinely 50-50 on that as a possibility. It has the quirky, off-kilter potential to (and I actually love a lot of it and am baffled by a lot of it). Time will tell I guess.

      • March 2, 2018 at 2:19 pm

        I like Kristian, but lately I don’t understand his mindset. First and foremost he was clamoring for Rian Johnson and that he wants Star Wars to move on into new exciting directions, changing things up, and so on…and that’s what Rian did, regardless of what angry fans think of the decisions he’s taken.
        And right after the backlash happened he started saying things like “it’s good to have JJ back because we need Star Wars to be the fun adventure movie again.”

        I mean why? We just broke the mold of what Star Wars can be and now we need to go back to the “usual”?

        I tried to tweet him twice regarding the contradicting statements, but he hasn’t replied yet, or addressed it.

        • March 2, 2018 at 2:34 pm

          I think there’s a strong argument to be nade that you change up Star Wars and “break the mold” without destroying the essence of SW ( like it or not, to a large number of fans, that is what TLJ did ).

          I don’t think Kristian’s ideas are contradictory – there is a vast, VAST scope to play in between “changing things up” and having a STAR WARS that feels “familiar” – in many fans’ eyes, Rian Johnson did not strike that balance, instead ( as they may see it ) “ruined” SW.

          I will cut RJ some ( slight ) slack and insist any sort of Creative working for a large corporation, must to some degree bend to the will of the ‘Powers-that-Be’.

          How much of the seeming “bad decisions” as relates to TLJ are RJ’s or KK’s responsibility – who knows?

          But having read the news of Colin’s Trevorrow’s ideas for Ep 9 ( which seemed really very good ), I would put a larger part of the blame on Kathleen Kennedy.

          • March 2, 2018 at 3:04 pm

            No, KK is not the problem here, nor is JJ or RJ.

            The problem is that the argument “(insert name here) ruined Star Wars and my childhood” exists since 1999 when TPM came out and has been circulating around since.

            In other words, WHAT IS STAR WARS?! If apparently GL can’t get it right with the prequels, then who can? The fans? Yeah, right!

            Right now the issue is that every fan thinks Star Wars is this, Star Wars is that. Anybody has a different idea of what Star Wars is.

            So don’t blame the Producers, the directors, or anybody involved in Star Wars right now. If anything, blame the creator himself for making Star Wars in a way that nobody, not even he himself can recreate that magic.

            So, unless you are willing to accept that each director, each producer, etc. brings his own “version” of Star Wars to the table, well, I’m sorry for you, but you will never be a happy person again.

            It has become cool to hate on Disney/Lucasfilm. And in reprocusion of that, suddenly it has become a thing to love the Prequels instead.

            Does anybody need to remind this fan base here of what happened in 1999, 2002 and 2005? B**** please!

          • March 2, 2018 at 3:13 pm

            Question: Was I rude or obnoxious to you in my original response? No.

            Then why are you being so very rude to me ( even swearing ) in your reply?

            I’m not surprised Kristian ignored you on twitter.

          • March 2, 2018 at 3:19 pm

            Ok folks… can you both keep to addressing the topic and not the individual please. Thanks.

          • March 2, 2018 at 3:58 pm

            “Bitch, please!” is a meme. Meaning to show how tiring and old this argument really is.
            Wasn’t meant to insult you. Sorry, if you took it as one. And no, I wasn’t rude to Kristian.

          • March 2, 2018 at 3:58 pm

            I don’t think so. TFA and R1 were appreciated by both, audiences and cirtics which is reflected in the fantastic box office and online ratings. TLJ was a divisive movie by design and it’s clearly showing that it’s not as appreciated by audiences as the previous Disney era SW movies.

          • March 2, 2018 at 7:11 pm

            so how about the GL era movies? Are we gonna pretend that there never was a controversy because I can remember quite a controversy starting in 1999 and lasting ever since?

            My point was, if you read my response closely, that it seems to me that out of the sudden everyone loves the PT and GL because RJ and KK made a bad movie apparently. It’s pretentious and makes me sick to my Star Wars fan core. It’s like everyone already forgot what happened when Disney wasn’t yet involved in any Star Wars.

          • March 2, 2018 at 7:52 pm

            So we should suddenly settle for a PT level of quality? Btw the hate for the PT is still going strong. However, fans have started to realized that not only Lucas could produce “bad” SW movies which is why the PT is less under fire these days. It’s not that hard to see.

          • March 2, 2018 at 8:05 pm

            Exactly. So since Disney doesn’t get it right, and the creator doesn’t. Who does? You? Me? Another random fan? Who is to say what Star Wars should be like?! Why should Filoni make a better SW film than RJ, JJ, GE or GL when apparently every single one of them doesn’t get it quite right?
            Maybe us fans should just get a life and stop pretending we are the know-it-all‘s. SW is something else for each one of us and because of that there won’t be a universally loved SW movie ever again. We have to accept that and stop pretending.

          • March 2, 2018 at 8:19 pm

            JJ got it right. Gareth Edwards got it right. So obviously there’s a way to do it. From my personal working experience I can tell you that creative group projects tend to get worse if a single person is in charge of everything and doesn’t listen to feedback. Usually you have an idea, your coworkers add some of their own and sometimes you say: Damn that’s clever, I didn’t think of this, let’s do it your way. This is how great movies are made.

            George Lucas followed this recipy in the OT. Back then SW was a blend of his ideas, the ideas of individual directors and other talented people like his first wife who did wonders during editing. In the PT, he made every important decision on his own and no longer had to listen to other people. As a result the PT turned out to be worse than the OT. TFA and R1 both had mutliple people in charge but TLJ once again only saw one man in charge of everything (as far as creative vision is concerned) and it failed.

            The point is that there isn’t a single person who culd do a better Star Wars. It’s about working in as a team, being open to multiple ideas and talents. RJ had some good ideas but he would have needed someone to hold him in check. Someone should have been there to say something like: “Look, I know you don’t care about Snoke but the fans want some background information. Maybe we could cut some scenes in Canto Bight and have a short dialogue between Snoke and Kylo instead to tell audiences more about their relationship and goals?”

          • March 2, 2018 at 6:06 pm

            But, Lucas did get it right with the prequels. He would have done better with having a good director working for him to rectify the stiff acting and lines, but he nailed the story connecting the entire Saga.

    • March 2, 2018 at 3:52 pm

      I noticed that with a lot of SW commentators after the release of TLJ. In some cases they seem less optimistic than they were before (like MIke Zeroh or Harloff for example), other’s have completely quit SW (like Dash Star). I am under the impression that the fan divide is becoming even bigger now that people had time to let it sink in.

  • March 2, 2018 at 10:31 am

    Would be a wasted opportunity not to have Ewan back for an Obi-wan movie IMO. No rush for it though. I would like to see something with new characters like R1 after the origin story of Solo (which is looking impressive).

    • March 2, 2018 at 1:18 pm

      In principal, I like the idea of standalone SW films. I just wish SW live action would take more chances – heck we haven’t even had a NEW, “iconic” SW spaceship in the vein of the Millenium Falcon or Slave 1 in over 35 years.

  • March 2, 2018 at 10:48 am

    I have a feeling Lucasfilm are taking a “wait-and-see” approach vis-a-vis an OBI-WAN film – they will determine its viability when they see if the Han Solo movie is a hit.

    • March 2, 2018 at 2:04 pm

      If they do, that would be a mistake. It’s apples and oranges. Most fans have been public about not really wanting a Solo movie but everyone wants and obi-wan movie.

      • March 2, 2018 at 2:06 pm

        I want a Solo movie. Have done since it was first announced. I also don’t want a Kenobi one. His story is done as far as I’m concerned. Leave it be.

        • March 2, 2018 at 2:07 pm

          As I said, “most” fans.

          • March 2, 2018 at 2:08 pm

            You also said, “everyone wants an Obi-Wan movie”.

            We don’t.

  • March 2, 2018 at 10:51 am

    Kristian’s segment halfway through this episode about Dave Filoni and Kathleen Kennedy and Lucasfilm is SPOT ON.

  • March 2, 2018 at 11:13 am

    Really great episode, this is the type of Council I remember loving. Kristian’s idea with Filoni and Kennedy is great

    • March 2, 2018 at 1:31 pm


  • March 2, 2018 at 11:41 am

    No, Filoni should take his ideas and start something new (for Disney) I personally don’t like what he has done for star wars.

    • March 2, 2018 at 2:07 pm

      Filoni’s work is very cartoonish, I don’t mean in it’s looks but in it’s mindset. I find the dialogue pretty awkward too. I wouldn’t want him running Lucasfilm. Personally I greatly prefer VII and VIII over Rebels (or for that matter Rogue One)

      • March 2, 2018 at 2:09 pm

        Rebels content is head and shoulders better than the current films IMO. Filoni “gets” Star Wars. KK only gets Star Wars through a feminist agenda first and Star Wars second

        • March 2, 2018 at 2:55 pm

          Couldn’t disagree more.

          Also, you are sexist.

          • March 2, 2018 at 3:32 pm

            So stating that someone has a feminist agenda is sexist now? I’m confused. What if KK herself stated she has a feminist agenda? Does this make her sexist then?

          • March 2, 2018 at 4:54 pm

            The personal aside was directed at his comment about feminist agenda’s. It was directly related to the topic he was addressing, though I would love to see him back up that claim.

          • March 2, 2018 at 5:02 pm

            Noted sir. Just trying to keep things civil.

          • March 2, 2018 at 5:40 pm

            I am with you on that.

      • March 2, 2018 at 3:38 pm

        Keep in mind what his target audience is. Good directors adapt to their audience but that doesn’t mean that they can’t pull of a variety of movies. Take George Miller who shot the pretty brutal “Mad Max” and the movie “Babe”.

      • March 2, 2018 at 7:21 pm

        That’s why he does Animated Features and no live action. Direwolves? Thank you very much, but I can do without. Mortis arc? Sounds to me more like Lord Of The Rings than Star Wars. And how about that Tessaract/Jedi temple thing in the last episode (suddenly we go super sci-fi with the force). I have seen that in Interstellar done much better and not so on the nose.

        Don’t get me wrong, I’m. It saying Filoni is a bad director, but if anybody says that he gets the SW feel done better than Rian Johnson, I’m gonna quietly roll my eyes.

  • March 2, 2018 at 2:39 pm

    Fans of this franchise tend to underrate the people with more responsibility (Lucas, Kennedy…) and overrate those who are important but just a piece of the puzzle (Hamill, Filoni). Kathleen Kennedy doesn’t run LFL for having good story ideas, she does so because she’s the most prolific and successful producer that Hollywood has alive nowadays.

    It’s positive that Filoni has a good place in LFL today as a Storyteller, cause he has developed Lucas’ seeds from the prequels in order to enhance his ideas and bridge them better with the OT. His approach is crucial for nowadays StarWars, but this doesn’t mean he can handle the whole company.

    • March 2, 2018 at 3:11 pm

      A producers job is mostly to keep track of the budget and make sure that talented people are put into key positions to make the production run as smoothly as possible on all levels. What KK should do is put Filoni in the position he deserves rather than showing incompetence by replacing directors halfway through the production. There is a reason why KK has reached the top of the industry and she deserved it. But at the moment her talent as a producer seems to have pretty much vanished compared to earlier successes.

      • March 2, 2018 at 4:04 pm

        I think you underrate Kathleen Kennedy. She landed on the most fruitful franchise of all time, but there’s a great difference between her and Lucas: Lucas had no-one on top of him, whereas Kennedy has to deal with Disney. It’s not the same job to simply be a producer and to handle a company as Lucasfilm, that is expected to bring multiplatform stories on a huge universe and being vanguardist in a technical level (ILM, ILMxLab, SW Sound…). The big decisions she has taken are a better way to do things than George Lucas at the Prequel era. She entrusts peolple to care about the universe (storygroup), she produces films and other narrative products concerning all the Star Wars eras (not just focusing at one at a time), and she tries to keep a balance between experienced directors and young, bolt ones. She has done mistakes, of course. Big ones, of course, but no-one ever on the film industry has dealt with something like this, and you make her pay the bill a little bit too high IMO.

        • March 2, 2018 at 4:14 pm

          Hmm interesting points you make there. I didn’t think of Bob Iger because I was under the impression that KK was pretty much given free reign. I appreciate her past accomplishments (which include TFA and partially R1) but the mistakes she made since then would cost pretty much anyone their jobs. The levels of incompetence when choosing directors should have gotten her fired or at least have her step down to a lower position until she gets the hang of it again. The storygroup is another example of her failure. They might coordinate comics and games but they don’t manage to connect additional media in a meaningful to the movies because KK values the creative freedom of her directors higher than the ideas the storygroup has which undermines their intended purpose.

          • March 2, 2018 at 6:02 pm

            Sometimes I want to jump in and then read your responses and then realize there is no need…you are spot on!!!

          • March 2, 2018 at 6:12 pm

            Thanks for your kind words but I’m always glad to hear different and/or additional opinions so don’t let my comments stop you from joining the conversation 🙂

          • March 2, 2018 at 7:05 pm

            I agree with you but do you know that when 3 months in SF Riant went like once a week to the storygroup and by his words “they agreed with pretty much everything he wrote”

          • March 2, 2018 at 8:08 pm

            Isn’t it fascinating how everyone agrees with Rian according to Rian? The storygroup, Kathleen Kennedy,… You know I’ve been in many projects involving creative decisions and I have never seen a team of creative people who are such a happy little family like Disney seems to be. They never disagree, everyone thinks that Rian’s ideas are great…

            Sometimes I wonder. Could it be that maybe Rian’s friend KK is a bully who cites “creative differences” whenever she doesn’t get what she wants. I guess it would be nice to hear what Josh Trenk, Colin Trevorrow, Phil Lord, Christopher Miller and Gareth Edwards would have to say about what happens if you are not agreeable enough.

          • March 3, 2018 at 12:38 am

            hahaha good point, my friend. It´s so weird that others were fired when they went different ways, hell even Gareth Edwards is so happy while most of Rogue One is not his movie….and here comes this guy who made 4 movies, wrote 4 stories and has unlimited trust and a blanc paper from KK and co.

          • March 2, 2018 at 7:15 pm

            Who said the Storygroup had ideas for TLJ?

          • March 2, 2018 at 7:49 pm

            Uhm I don’t know. Their name maybe…?

  • March 2, 2018 at 2:55 pm

    No. Filoni should not.

    • March 2, 2018 at 3:00 pm

      Sure. Someone who has been working together with Lucas for years and ran two successful TV shows with more daring ideas and careful planning than all of the sequel movies combined absolutely shouldn’t run the creative team. Let’s rather have a clusterf*ck of clashing creative visions and KK giving valuable “input” like space Leia.

  • March 2, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    I would otherwise say no to Filoni, but I’d prefer his creative input over Kathleen Kennedy’s any day of the week.

    • March 2, 2018 at 4:05 pm

      “but I’d prefer his creative input over Kathleen Kennedy’s”

      You don’t understand how film business works.

  • March 2, 2018 at 5:46 pm

    id love dave filoni over kathleen kennedy

  • March 2, 2018 at 6:24 pm

    I’m thinking they (Disney) should just call me and let me run Lucasfilm!!! lol
    -Stop all new films/ review and decide which new films to be made
    -go back to 3 years between Saga films and only do one standalone in the 3 year Saga break
    -finish Clone Wars series
    -bring back EU as a separate universe or timeline to revive and reunite fan base(similar to Marvel) so we don’t isolate old fans and new
    -remove sequel trilogy as canon/reboot them if needed
    -fire current story group
    -bring in fan base group to work with new story group
    -all Saga movies moving forward to have a singular vision and outline
    -no agenda for hiring of directors, actors or actresses….best person for the job no matter gender, race.
    -Bring back Lucas as a consultant on all media
    -FIRE EA!
    -Start work immediately on live action KOTR with Dave Filoni, Drew Karpyshyn, and possible GOT guys…
    -Start making Darth Bane trilogy movie (R) RATED version that goes along with books.

    That would be just my first day on the job!!!! lol…I’m dreaming!

    • March 2, 2018 at 8:17 pm

      Couldn’t have put it better!!!

    • March 3, 2018 at 11:08 am

      That’s why you don’t run it

      • March 3, 2018 at 6:31 pm

        But all the reasons that I should….never have we seen such turmoil among it’s fans. They have no singular vision and are more interested in whom they hire for parts as a political statement rather than give us consistent content with a overall connecting story within the Saga.

        They have failed, they have turn into the EMPIRE…it is now time for the FAN rebellion to take place and take over….lol, I got carried away and inspired by my own comments…lol,

        • March 4, 2018 at 12:14 am

          You sound moronic and childish spitting such rhetoric like WE MUST REBEL!, I know not a direct quote but thats my interpretation of your statement.

          I agree, some moves made by Disney/LucasFilm have been quite bad. The creative direction is need of some solid direction.

          The only good thing coming out in the past 6 months has been TLJ (in some aspects) and the Darth Vader comic and Battlefront 2.

          Aside from the issues that plagued that game at launch or around launch, the game is solid and enjoyable.

          I too want KOTOR back, but not a complete REHASH of the game. Id like to see the Fall of Revan rather than his redemption like we got in KOTOR. Id like to see the return of KOTOR 2 as that has a better story, characters and gameplay than its predecessor and also went away from the formulaic Star Wars feel that KOTOR 1 had.

          • March 4, 2018 at 12:38 am

            go read again, notice my sarcasm with laughing at end…now move alonf

  • March 2, 2018 at 6:29 pm

    This was a very frustrating episode. A week with great content and the episode was dominated by Kristian complaining about Kathleen Kennedy. They finally got to the Rebels episodes (which were the big story of the week) 52 minutes in and spent about 10 minutes on the episodes. The constant whining about Kathleen Kennedy by Kristian is getting tiring.

    • March 2, 2018 at 8:38 pm

      I’m glad to see him going after the issues, imo

      • March 2, 2018 at 8:44 pm

        Issues? Star Wars isnt some political issue. It is fun pop culture that I have watched and loved 4 40 years. I wanted to hear thoughts on Rebels and what we got was nearly an hour of complaining. They didnt even talk about the trademarks for Star Wars: Resistance. Not to mention this is becoming a weekly thing with Kristian. Also he praises Filoni for his Ashoka plan, yet it took 2 seasons before we found out. Doesnt give the same benefit of the doubt to the films. Reminds me of people complaining that Ep8 didnt answer all questions of Ep7 when we still have Ep9 to close out the trilogy. Why was Rebels given 2 seasons to answer Ashoka question. We should have gotten the answer in season 3. See how silly that is?

        • March 2, 2018 at 9:06 pm

          Well, hate to burst your bubble but the new Star Wars has become political to my dismay.
          Aside from Harloff which I personally think was on point….8 was a total failure in answering questions set up in 7 and alluded to that they would answer.

          In a series have have many seasons to answer questions, in movies you don’t…see, it’s not silly.

          • March 2, 2018 at 9:09 pm

            The films are a series. So if you keep it civil I will ask and have a nice conversation. What questions still need to be answered? Is it wrong if they get answered in Ep9 or in your view Ep7 questions must be answered in Ep8 and Ep8 questions in Ep9.

          • March 2, 2018 at 9:15 pm

            Snoke, Rey, Luke, Ren, …buildup of what Thrawn(rebels) was talking about with threats looming…
            Fine with 9 to take on these issues or questions. But was not happy with 8 just disregarding them. Believe me, I hope 9 can make things right (imo) but just not much hope after all of the personal let downs with the sequels. (which I could discuss all day, not to mention all the legitimate issues).

          • March 2, 2018 at 9:19 pm

            Please give questions. Not just throw out names.
            I assume who is Snoke? To me it was answered that Snoke wasnt important to the story.
            Rey? What her parents? Well it was answered and it was really laid out in Ep7. People just didnt like the answer.
            Luke? What about Luke?
            Ren? What about Ren?
            What does Thrawn have to do with Ep7 and Ep8?
            The most frustrating thing I have had with discussions over The Last Jedi has been vague terms. Be specific or simply say you didnt enjoy it and move on. Not everything is for everyone.

          • March 2, 2018 at 9:57 pm

            on the road, will give you detailed response in about an hour.

          • March 2, 2018 at 11:38 pm

            Will respond. Going out for evening.

          • March 2, 2018 at 11:39 pm


          • March 2, 2018 at 11:31 pm

            If it were a stand alone film, I would have thought it to be ok. As a saga film, it was terrible.First, questions that were not answered.
            -Snoke was sold as being important and a tie in to the original as in his speech about what he witnessed and the failure of Vader. The illusions to him in all of the new canon books as well. Unlike the emperor whom played no part in the original story (AND EARLY ON IN THE STORY), this was episode 7 and 8, so we need to know who he is and how he ties in to all that has happened.
            -Rey’s parentage has been dangled in front of us from the beginning with JJ. They continued to play this up and ended up giving us nothing. If her parents are no bodies, then why is she more powerful and can do more than any jedi before her? Luke didn’t train her at all. Mind tricks, saber skills, force pulling sabers, resisting mind powers of skilled ex-jedi, ability to lift an entire avalanche …I could go on and on
            -Luke, why was he so out of character…where were the force ghost set up in the movies prior, tv shows (CW’s Yoda training to win for all time) etc… wouldn’t they have aided Luke and prevented this whole mess with Ben and the academy? wouldn’t they know of Snoke? not to mention that this is not the Luke that we were left with in the OT. He tried to redeem his father who was one of the most evil in the galaxy in front of the emperor…but thought about murdering his nephew in his sleep??? Too out of character, and once again where are the ghost to help Luke?
            -Ren…how about what motivates him, why is all powerful one moment and then incompetent at other times. He is a total inconsistent shadow of a character that he is based on. How deep do you want me to get on Ben Ren?
            -Thrawn eludes to a greater threat in Rebels, which we all assume is Snoke…please correct me if i’m wrong.

            Now, do you want me to break down the whole movie as to all the issues? It will be a few pages if so, but I don’t mind. But here are some highlights…
            -out of place humor through out
            -so many things that just make zero sense….(example; slow chase of fleet, why didn’t FO just hyper jump in front of them or surround them through hyper jump?)
            -plots…just so many dead ends and points that led no where.

            Anyways, how deep do you want the answers?

          • March 3, 2018 at 11:10 am

            Why didn’t the death star just hyper jump around the planet to blast Yavin IV?

          • March 3, 2018 at 2:52 pm

            Or better yet with Yavin IV. Why didnt the Death Star blow up the planet between the Death Star and Yavin IV. That would have ended the rebellion in one shot.

            Why didnt Luke, Leia and the Rebellion send in a commando squad to get Han. Come on Jabba didnt have the man power to fight off a small squad.

          • March 3, 2018 at 4:26 pm

            that’s the problem….TFA was ANH2.0….no arcs for any of them in TLJ.

            almost killing Vader in the heat of combat is not comparable to killing his nephew in his sleep.

            Luke didn’t guide them using the force, he used the force to feel the target….REYS powers are off the chart with no training, no comparison.
            look at what the new sequels have done to further the saga of the Skywalkers….nothing.

          • March 4, 2018 at 1:11 am

            Feel the target? Really? Flying thousands of miles per hour and guiding missiles to a very small target. Guided missiles don’t head to a target if they aren’t locked on a target. They go straight. What was this superpower Rey used?

          • March 4, 2018 at 4:16 am

            he hit whomp rats same size…what did obi wan ghost tell him while he takes targeting system off?
            Jedi Mind trick, resisting mind probe from Dark Jedi Ren, calling on force to defeat Ren (twice) who has been training since childhood, ability to call sabers from across rooms or forest, lift an entire avalanche to allow resistance to escape, best Luke in short duel, split huge boulder…..and never get wounded….she is a force beast and Mary Sue, no way around it bud.

          • March 4, 2018 at 7:04 pm

            Please. A whomp rat with a targetting computer going at much, much, much slower speeds isnt the same as going thousands of miles per hour with tie fighters attacking you from behind and use your mind to guide them with less training then Rey had when she lifted rocks. That wasnt a full avalanche by the way. The Crystal foxes could get through the rocks without help. Rey only defeated Kylo once. The 2nd time was simply both of them concentrating on the lightsaber and pulling it at the same time. I also mentioned before that during the time from ROTJ to TFA the Jedi werent wiped out of the history books like they were post ROTS. Rey heard plenty about Luke and the legends. So certainly she heard some of the things he did and simply tried. A big difference between Rey and Luke is Rey was always a believer. Luke’s flaw was doubt. Luke’s flaw stayed with him his whole life.

          • March 4, 2018 at 7:23 pm

            Go back and look at rocks she lifted….rock slide and a massive amount. Luke’s shot we could debate for eternity.
            Rey didn’t even know if Luke was real and regardless, that would require training and so would everything else she pulled off.

            You are telling me in 30 years of study and knowledge from force ghost that Luke didn’t grow enough to not succumb to the weakness he was aware of? That’s not logical at all. I know you like the movie and that’s fine, but these are real things that was missed in writing.

          • March 4, 2018 at 7:47 pm

            30 years of training never stops him from being human. All he did is what every single person has done. He just did it because he saw that his pupil had fallen to the dark side without him being aware. Not because he was frustrated. It was a fleeting thought and had Kylo not woke up nothing would have come of it until Luke confronted Kylo. What did you expect he would go. “Oh Kylo has gone to the dark side. Thats nice.”

          • March 4, 2018 at 8:56 pm

            no, I expected he would discuss with Yoda and obi wan the best course of action and probably go after Snoke.

            Hell, he did try to redeem his father (Darth Vader) so he would’ve definitely acted appropriately and not lift his saber unless needed.

          • March 4, 2018 at 9:59 pm

            If your view is Luke is infallible. Then you already knew going into TLJ that you werent going to like it. After all he had already lost Kylo and allowed Kylo to wipe out his students. So Luke had made some huge mistake, you just didnt know what it was. So you say no way it would have been to show a moment of fear and think about striking down Kylo. Yet he all along didnt know Kylo had turned. He isnt infallible. Yoda and Obi-Wan didnt teach him enough to know that Kylo was turning.

          • March 4, 2018 at 10:17 pm

            That’s because, this movie is a story that doesn’t fit the saga….why do you think there is such discord among the fan base. why do you think Mark was so upset?
            Again, if it was a standalone film then fine. But it’s not and does not fit within the saga.
            A 900 year old master who becomes one with the force would have known and Luke would have been prepared, to think otherwise doesn’t fit with what has come before and there fore is a movie that garners such hate. They missed who Luke was/is as you have.

          • March 5, 2018 at 1:05 am

            Then why could he fail before TFA. Luke’s failure happened. You just didnt know the details. Yet he failed. So your problem isnt the explanation that he failed in TLJ it is that he failed at all. Your position is the FO should never have come about, that Snoke would have been slapped down like a gnat when he was found by Luke. Its not that TLJ doesnt fit the saga it is that Luke ever failing anything doesnt fit the Saga. He should have become a god because he apparently because Yoda became an all knowing being once he became one with the Force and would be constantly by Luke’s side making sure Luke never failed.

          • March 5, 2018 at 2:41 am

            Luke would not become a God…but damn tough to beat, even Yoda stated in CW , that this was a way for the Jedi to win for all time. (regarding his training to be immortal).
            TLJ doesn’t fit the saga any way you cut it for many reasons….Luke is just one of those reasons.
            I’m not the one that wrote all those stories and emphasized the importance of Yodas training and what it would mean.

          • March 5, 2018 at 4:15 pm

            And by your argument TFA doesnt either, Just saying by your superman logic for Luke the Jedi Academy should have never fallen and in no way could Kylo had turned. Your Luke is to smart, to strong, to all knowing to allow those things to occur.

          • March 5, 2018 at 4:47 pm

            Correct, TFA was wrong as well but I was in hope of 8 putting it on track…now, well….I just don’t see it.

            It is why an outside enemy, which could have been Snoke if used properly could have worked or something else greater would have come after the New Republic.

            If I’m wrong about what they put into canon with Yoda, please enlighten me. Because using their own previous stories, Luke would have been the ultimate Jedi with a new order like the universe had never seen. Not some old fool whom made a mistake and ran with no guidance.

          • March 5, 2018 at 5:58 pm

            What you thought that TLJ was going to go “Just kidding Ben Solo didnt fall to the dark side and kill his father.” What did you think they were going to Dallas it and make it all a dream or something. I do not recall CW inferring that Yoda now has the power to create super Jedi. Maybe I will have to re-watch them again. To be honest you are the only person I have ever chatted with that has this belief.

          • March 5, 2018 at 7:12 pm

            The whole Yoda deal was that he was trained to keep his consciousness…you definitely should go back and watch those episodes. His final comments are that, he does not think there is a way to win the clone wars, but he has found a way for the Jedi to win for all time. .It was a great episode.(s) Otherwise, what is the point of the training? To have someone hit you with a stick every few years and laugh at you???

            No, they could have left Ben as he was and let him go dark….(since we can’t take the movie back)…I was kinda hoping that some unforeseen power awoke in Luke that maybe Luke destroyed the temple and all the students in some “force” accident which made Ben think the only way to stop him was to embrace the dark side. hell, I don’t know…many different things they could have done to explain Luke hiding and Ben going dark…I also like the theory that had Luke guarding some ancient artifact that Snoke was trying to get to make him more powerful. And Snoke had twisted Ben in Luke’s absence.

          • March 5, 2018 at 8:24 pm

            No way does that arc with Yoda imply he can create an infallible Jedi. Remember this is also from Yoda point of view. I think that one thing that TLJ comes across as saying and I love it is that the Jedi order got to caught up in trying to control a natural (in the Star Wars galaxy) force just as the Sith did/do.

            As for your Luke/Ben explanation. Even if they did what you suggest that doesnt validate your logic that Luke should be infallible. Anyway you describe it Luke should have never caused Ben to go dark if he had so much self control and understanding of the force. No way the dark in Ben could hide. No way Luke would have this force accident and wipe out the students on his own and Ben turn because of that.

          • March 5, 2018 at 10:27 pm

            There is a special reason he was trained to pass this along and it’s not to come back years later and make jokes…..not sure of the name of those beings, but they wanted Yoda trained. And though it may not be to make them completely infallible, it sure equips them better than ever in the history of the Jedi! If not what reason do you see them using them for? Obi-Wans statement to Vader that he would become more powerful then vader could imagine if he strikes him down??? And I’ll bet that a force Luke shows up to teach in 9, yet we are to believe that Yoda abandoned Luke all these years???
            So with their new way of of thinking, the galaxy should kill Rey and Ren and anyone who is force sensitive so they don’t interfere with the force and it’s natural state? Or we just have Star Wars without Jedi and Sith moving forward? (just questions, not implying anything)
            And as far as my thoughts on Ben and all of that…I’m no writer, those are just baseline ideas that seem better than what we got and would certainly go along better with the Saga as well.

          • March 5, 2018 at 10:39 pm

            CW didnt complete so we dont know what would have happened had it continued. In early 2013 it Disney and Cartoon Network ended the contract for Clone Wars and the series stopped any development. So you had episodes already in the can that were written and developed far before any sequel trilogy was in development. We just dont know where Yoda Clone Wars arc would go. Hell the story was pre-ROTS so counting on that for Luke to be trained into your super Jedi is well stretching it.

            Do I believe Luke will appear as a Force ghost in Ep9. Absolutely. Thats not what you implied. You implied that Luke basically had a constant companion in Yoda training him all along. I believe that Yoda appeared from time to time when he chose. Not to train, but simply because it was the right time. I also believe from comments made, that it isnt easy for Force ghosts to make themselves visible to others.

            As for killing the force sensitives. That is big deal with TLJ. It got back to the story that family lines arent needed to be a Jedi/Sith. Your father/mother didnt need to be force sensitive for you to be force sensitive. That is a much more powerful and flexible model for story telling.

          • March 5, 2018 at 11:15 pm

            His arc ties right into Yoda telling Obi wan about more training he requires OF Obi-Wan in ROTS. Luke as a almost unbeatable Jedi would come from all of the experience that Yoda and Obi-Wan would have along with Anakin and his mistakes (he’s a ghost too). I’m just saying that with all of that wisdom and according to George Lucas that Luke would be the most powerful Jedi of them all…he would be damn near unbeatable. That doesn’t mean unbeatable but really tough.

            Luke will have a huge part as a force ghost, what you are telling me is that Yoda basically had no part. If that is the case then it makes zero sense to even have Yoda as a ghost at all. I mean why not just have him die and leave a book for Luke to study to be a force ghost? Unfortunately, neither of us have the rules of force ghost. I’m basing everything on all the information that they have given us and implied to us. I would make the natural assumption that they would always be there to guide Luke in rebuilding new and better Jedi and to guide him onto the best path possible for Luke. So, the moment was that important in TLJ for Yoda to show up? But not during the time of Solo being led down the path of the dark side?

            I don’t believe not ever believed you needed family ties of Jedi or Sith to be one….I’m just telling you that for one to be as powerful as Rey, that it needs to be explained. And I get the whole family thing and being able to be more flexible in story telling. But, this is the Skywalkers story. Not about everyone else. That has always been clear.

            Look, you are on here and see the complaints. And those listed on many other sites are not bots or just a vocal minority….It’s a lot of people who see a lot of real issues with this last movie. Again, great that you liked it. But many did not and that is why you see this debate all of the time now. I’ve only listed a couple of things and could go on for days and days about the rest of the issues with this movie. And the sad thing is, I was really thinking that Rian would pull it off. I was a big fan of his and still am. I just believe that he missed with TLJ.

          • March 5, 2018 at 11:25 pm

            Yes more training to learn how to continue on once he passes on. How to materialize yourself as a force ghost. Not how to create this super Jedi you believe came about. Honestly a super Jedi ruins narrative and again it goes back as a super Jedi Luke sucked. Even George Lucas treatment for the sequel trilogy had Ben turning to the dark side. Also a great deal of TLJ story was in development during the time of TFA. Just look at The Art of the Last Jedi book. They held back a great deal of the art in The Art of The Force Awakens book because it would have given away a lot of TLJ story. So that material showed up the The Art of The Last Jedi book. I expect the same in The Art of Ep9 book. It will likely have a great deal of material that was created years ago.

          • March 5, 2018 at 11:48 pm

            Ok, super may be a bit big, but certainly powerful (more in line with EU Luke). And that would be a great story imo. I’m fine with George’s version of him going dark…I’m sure he had a different reason. And since it’s his world then I can go along with it, unfortunately…we will never know that total vision.

            It’s been fun to have some civility on opposing views of this movie…it’s unheard of these days! Two Star Wars fans that just see things from a certain point of view….keep enjoying Star Wars, I’m sure we will differ again on something in the SW universe.

          • March 5, 2018 at 11:50 pm

            Sure we will discuss something in the future. I will simply enjoy where Star Wars takes me.

          • March 3, 2018 at 2:50 pm

            Snoke was already answered by Bartos, but will add his purpose was to move Kylo story forward. We didnt need Emperor 2.0. Did you want some throw away lines saying he was in the unknown regions where the Emperor sensed him? Or did you want a flashback just to find out the same? What exactly did you want?

            Rey – Maz told us in TFA that her parents were never coming back. JJ Abrams said shortly after TFA release her parents were not in TFA. Notice that the ship her parents flew away in sure looks like the same ship that Rey and Finn ran for before they took the Falcon. For many, many, many generations Jedi were not from Jedi parentage. They just happened. Then Vader had Luke. Then it wasnt Jedi powers that allowed Luke to defeat Vader if was fathers love of son. TFA setup Rey for her skills better then ANH did with Luke. Only Lukes bragging to Han and a throw away lines let us know he could pilot a ship. We saw Rey wipe out a few people on Jakku and show her skills with a Melee weapon. Her training was basically the same as Lukes. Remember the lines from Qui-Gon in TPM about reactions and knowing things before they happen. Rey had those things and she had legends of Luke Skywalker which Luke didnt have because the Emperor wiped away as much of the Jedi that he could.

            -Luke was a human hero not some Jedi rendition of Superman that only believes in truth justice and the american way. He had a moment of panic and the dark side that has surrounded his family momentarily took over. Like it almost ended Vaders life at the hand of his son. This is completely in character.

            -Kylo. Easy what motivates him is not being good enough. Not living up to the legend that is Luke Skywalker, not living up to the heros that his parents were. Then he grasps onto his grandfather. It wasnt a secret that Vader was Luke and Leia’s father. Snoke senses it and exploits it.

            As for Thrawn I dont recall that in Rebels. Maybe it was a line basically thrown in. Which makes me wonder why is that OK to happen in Rebels without detailed explanation right away? Part of what I loved about Star Wars for 40 years has been mystery. Things for us to discuss and speculate. Things that we dont always get answered. Now people want answers to minutia.

            I ask you with Snoke for instance. What does it matter if he came from plant X in the unknown regions and the emperor felt his presence? Does it change the story? Does it change the arc of the protagonist and the antagonist?

          • March 3, 2018 at 6:27 pm

            Ok, have you noticed that everyone is having to explain away the issues with the sequel movies? There should have been a natural flow that did not happen…unfortunately. And it shows when even the long time fans such as myself find so many issues from get go.

            -Snoke was not answered by him not anyone else. He was apparently a massive force user with much knowledge and needed to be fleshed out at this point as we are 7-8 movies into a saga….not in the 1st or 2nd movie. It’s truly not about what I want but about what they should have done which is obvious to everyone except JJ, Rian and KK. Flesh out who he was, how he was so aware of what took place and why so powerful and able to move on Ben at such a young age.
            -Rey…you are right about jedi not always being from other jedi. But that doesn’t explain her abilities to use the force like the masters of old. In order to do that they need to have her as someone special….much like Anakin was born to balance the force. She simply cannot be a nobody and have the special abilities that only masters have unless she is either from a special bloodline like the skywalkers or she is a new force being sent to balance the force.
            -Luke was an embodiment of Superman among the Jedi who even according to Lucas would be the most powerful Jedi ever! He should be years beyond the temptation of his youth, with years of training from the force ghost (which were ignored by JJ,KK AND RIAN) Yoda, Obi wan and Anakin,,,,he simply would not have given in to such things and would have built a very successful Jedi Temple.
            -Thrawn….I believe the intent was to build to the danger coming was Snoke as did everyone else…which is why it is a problem with the new sequels that you don’t have a singular vision. I love the mystery as much as anyone and but in a Saga you need to tie things up and make sense of these references. And maybe they will in 9, but it will require much course correction.
            -The Snoke for instance—-So much was built up if you watch and read everything like I have for the last 40 years. So yes, at this point after so many years and so many movies…it does matter. It could change the arc of either the protagonist or antagonist. To have him be mentioned and built up in all forms of media and be suddenly cut down without anything is just not good writing.

            Unfortunately, we are not seeing the grand plans pay off as we did with Lucas. And we never will because they have no plan. They are given these films to each new person to insert their idea of the moment. It has been admitted….which is why we are were we are. Complete fan divide. A movie so bad that it has almost destroyed the fans by turning them on each other. Look we can argue forever but you’ll never change my mind nor will I change yours. The point is…we should not even be at this point, but it is all because they have not properly taken care of a property that is near and dear to millions of people since their child hood.

          • March 4, 2018 at 1:08 am

            Explain away issues? Only if you believe that issues exist. If you apply the same level of criticism to the OT as you do to TLJ. You don’t.

            Where is all this build up for Snoke? Only thing mentioned is that the Emperor feels a dark presence drawing him to the unknown regions and that is barely mentioned in other canon material. I ask you what did you want to tell the backstory that you so desperately want. What that doesn’t totally disrupt the movie. I do think that interesting story can be told. Is it needed for this trilogy, but still it could be an interesting story in book, TV or comic form.

            What is this incredible power you believe Rey showed. She was able to withstand Kylo trying to read her mind. Both force powers we never witnessed. She was able to use a mind trick on a Stormtrooper. She was able to beat a badly injured Kylo Ren only when she gave herself up to the force. She was able to lift up rocks. Rey was different then Luke. Luke didn’t always believe. Rey never didn’t believe.

            Luke had years of Force training by ghosts? Really. That took the human out of him? We saw al manor of Jedi in the prequels that showed flaws. After the emperor and Vader, Luke was a researcher. He had no confrontation to deal with and his research into the Jedi order lead him to understand that hubris and inflexibility brought down the Jedi order. There is a reason that Superman is notoriously the hardest superhero to tell compelling stories with. Without flaws and invincibility leads to bad stores. Yet in the end Luke totally gives himself into the Force and shows the most ultimate Jedi power we have seen.

            Which Thrawn are you referring to? Rebels Thrawn or EU Thrawn. EU Thrawn is gone.

            I don’t believe that the trilogy has no singular vision. We have had a beginning a middle and will have an end. Only then will we know if questions needed to be answered were ignored.

          • March 4, 2018 at 4:31 am

            you simply cannot apply the same to the OT as it was the beginning for all of us. The ST, must have a higher level of criticism with 40 years invested.
            No Jedi we know of could do what she was able to do with no training….how did she even know about mind tricks?
            There is always a great story with a hero….and Luke was always viewed as such. With years of study and ghost of masters, he would have fixed the flaws of the past and knowing that Smoke was after Ben, he would after gone after Snoke and probably with the new Republic fleet before all this mess happened. They shortchanged the hero story by trying to be cool and tell some weird story about the most hopeful Jedi in the galaxy with 30 years experience and ghost to aid him in training that he would be less of a person as a old man and forget all his training and give in….no, that’s awful. Luke was and is the hero, they dropped the ball here. That was the lamest thing we’ve ever seen from a Jedi. why not just show up and take Kylo out, and die a hero?
            Rebels Thrawn is who I am referring to. I wish it was EU Thrawn as he was superior to what is in rebels.
            I’m glad you like it and believe they can pull it off. I’ve been a fan certainly as long as you and was crushed by what they give us in TLJ. And it appears many more fans were as well. I just can’t see it the way you do. I’ve never felt so cheated….its strange.

          • March 4, 2018 at 6:59 pm

            Im sorry, I dont think that Luke could be nearly as trained as you believe. He no longer had the collective knowledge of the existing Jedi. The libraries of the Jedi destroyed by Palpatine, etc. Acting like the ghosts of Yoda and Obi-Wan could just hang around is silly. Not to mention Yoda and Obi-Wan had trained other Jedi who were flawed. They didnt try to be cool they presented Luke as human not a super human. Luke even mentions what you are thinking. Did you expect him to take on the FO all by himself. As for many fans/people. I have yet to meet 1 human in person who didnt like TLJ. Not 1. Not a family member, not a friend, not a co-worker. No one. Yes there must be some, but not nearly as many as some people think.

          • March 4, 2018 at 7:37 pm

            That was the entire purpose of Yoda receiving the training in the CW. So he would be able to assist forever…..not just show up to hit Luke with his cane.

            No, he could have went after Snoke before the fleet was destroyed or shown up in person on crait, took out Ren personally and still die a martyr.

            Funny, we had a group of 12 and we all hated it. The only people I know that liked it were casual fans. All the nerds like myself have that I know have lost their minds about how bad it was. My poor wife fell asleep during that ridiculous fleet chase.
            And as time goes on, it is clear that more people are admitting the faults of this movie.
            Great, you like it….but don’t defend it from people with legitimate issues that comment on it. They are just as entitled to there opinion as you.

            And I’m right, your wrong……lol, sarcasm unless you can’t see that either.

        • March 3, 2018 at 11:03 am

          Thank you. Finally someone said it what I’m trying to say for weeks.

  • March 2, 2018 at 8:16 pm

    Keenedy out of LF would be the best thing happening to SW. I am sure she’s responsible for the direction this new trilogy has taken. Someone who is more in touch with the SW universe needs to replace her. I am not sure Dave Filoni is the best fit though but still better than her.

  • March 2, 2018 at 8:18 pm

    Anything would be an improvement on crazy Kathy!

  • March 2, 2018 at 10:18 pm

    Denial has ended?

  • March 3, 2018 at 5:23 am

    I’m done with Filoni, his wolf fettish and his temptation to make Rex Nick Sanz. Give someone else a crack at it.

Comments are closed.