Editorial: Revenge in Star Wars: Episode VIII
Revenge is a story intertwined within the Star Wars saga. From the moment Luke swore to become a Jedi over the unburied bodies of his aunt and uncle the idea of revenge has been as part of the story of Star Wars as the Force itself. Episode VII left our three villains with a strong desire for vengeance leading into the Episode VIII. Hit the jump to join Bluestreaking as he speculates how this desire for revenge could drive the plot of the upcoming films.
With filming for Episode VIII underway many of us spend sleepless nights wondering at the possible continuation to VII’s story, or that could just be me. But for those like me whose mind can’t stop buzzing with possibilities it is prudent to examine the all powerful motivator of vengeance. I will examine the acts that need avenging from our three villains, their most likely target, and speculate how these plot threads will weave in Episode VIII.
Hux, Poe, and the loss of Starkiller
Even though the two never interacted, or were even in the same shot for Episode VII General Hux and Poe Dameron have some unfinished business. Hux’s precious Starkiller Base was destroyed by legendary Resistance hotshot Poe Dameron. This is increasingly painful considering Poe had been in Hux’s grasp only to be lost through the actions of one of his own soldiers. Poe’s destruction of Starkiller will elevate him to Galactic Hero status similar to if not greater than Luke’s own ascension, and this ascension will put Poe firmly Hux’s crosshairs
As the two members of their respective trios who are most closely tied to the conflict between the Resistance and the Third Order they offer a dualistic aspect that Star Wars has yet to truly tap into. Imagine a world where say Princess Leia and General Veers became archrivals in the same vein as Han Solo and Boba Fett, with the two holding duels of wits similar to Han and Boba’s at the Star Destroyer.
Hux is not someone who will stand idly by and not seek revenge for the embarrassment administered to him by the hotshot pilot. The two will most likely cross swords in VIII and Hux will strike a blow evening the odds between the two. A vicious way this could take place is if Hux is somehow responsible for maiming or killing General Leia, and doing so in such a way to make Poe feel inadequate and that he failed. It will create a need to have a sort of round three in Episode IX and give Poe a chance for character development as his confidence and bravado is shaken to its core.
Phasma, Finn, and the Trash Compactor
Like many others I was somewhat disappointed by the lack of Phasma we got in our final product, with the amount of screentime devoted to the introduction of Kylo and our heroes Phasma never really had a chance to gain the character establishment she needed. But with the introductions out of the way Phasma now has room to engage in some plot lines truly of her own.
Finn and Phasma are two of the most closely tied characters going into VIII with Finn having spent many years under Phasma’s command only to ultimately betray and humiliate her. From current indications it seems that Phasma somehow made an escape from the Starkiller trash compactor and is still alive and well moving into Episode VIII. But now she has a chance to resolve some unfinished business between her and Finn.
Finn got the upper hand on Phasma through a clever ambush and forced Phasma to perform a borderline treasonous action to save her own life. Phasma strikes me as the sort of woman who would not let such an lie. I expect her to be at the front of the First Order forces hunting down Finn and other Resistance members. I imagine Phasma is salivating at the chance to bring down Finn through an ambush of her own and demonstrate why she was his commanding officer.
Kylo, Rey, and the Duel
As the primary protagonist and antagonist, and in a sense mirrors of each other, the dualism between Rey and Kylo will only deepen as our story progresses. But the aspect of particular note here is the climactic duel between Rey and Kylo at the end of VII. Unlike Luke and Vader or Anakin and Maul/Dooku/etc our hero crossed blades with our villain at the very start. At play was a fight that showed the true unrefined amateurism between the two, in fairness to Kylo he was fighting while extremely wounded.
With time spent with their respective masters Kylo and Rey will soon cross blades again in a more sophisticated duel but one I expect Kylo to hold the upperhand. What will be curious to see is the extent of the injuries Rey inflicted on Kylo and how these play with Kylo’s already fragile psyche, as he moves closer to his idol in Vader in form Kylo should continue to grow darker and more menacing. It would be rather uncharacteristic of Star Wars for Rey to make it through her trilogy unscathed and it has always been the second film where the rashness of the hero leads to them overestimate their own abilities.
Rey and Kylo shall duel again and Kylo will demonstrate he is a very different duelist then when they first met. The dark side has a quick path to power, and Kylo will most likely demonstrate to Rey how she was foolish to turn down her chance to join him and it is possible we may see the final destruction of the Skywalker lightsaber in another saga defining moment from Kylo who continues to seek deeper into a brutality akin to Darth Vader.
In conclusion expect the idea of revenge to be a major part of Episode VIII’s plot line and expect our heroes to come out of the film bearing several scars, both physical and mental, as we move on towards the conclusion of the sequel trilogy.
I think it is import to recognize the difference in acting out of revenge versus acting to avenge someone. I believe Luke acts to avenge the deaths of his family, whereas those who dabble in the dark side are more likely to take revenge against those who wrong them. Implied in the definition and common use of the 2 words, “avenge” has a much more positive connotation and usually describes act done with a sense of justice, whereas “revenge” connotes anger and retribution for its own sake. Look at the superhero “Avengers,” they don’t generally act out a sense of revenge, but more act to bring justice. While the words are very closely related, I do think it’s important to identify the differences.
It’s a dish best served COLD… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vwHLMs04XA
Great article, Bluestreaking!
Please tell me your fellow SW friends call you “Kylo”?
Or just Ren?
http://i.imgur.com/hcLJxaH.gif?noredirect
🙂
Not yet, but I hope so someday. I make my wife and kids call me that, though.
I think Rey has to loose a limb to show a physically lose in Episode 8. We never had a hero loose a leg before. Anakin lost both of his legs to Kenobi, but he was Darth Vader at the time. Kylo will take her leg when she’s week and vulnerable. I want see her crawl for her life with Kylo Ren pacing around her, waiting for her to die, or finish her off. I’m getting dark here, but I like it.
So it’s gonna be like King Arthur vs. The Black Knight in ‘Holy Grail’?
‘Alright…we’ll call it a draw!’
Yes! Exactly like that! Thanks!
Something like that could work to introduce Luke back into action.
I hope Kylo just tares apart Rey then Luke just tares apart Kylo
You haven’t seen many Star Wars films, have you? Like they’re gonna kill Rey! NOT.
I didn’t say kill; I meant like lose a hand or something. Next time read the comment you stuck up fathead!
Aw…..loosen the bun! Why so serious?
All I’m saying is that there needs to be some stakes and trauma. The villains need to have the upper hand. Not like the prequels where the Separatist can be destroyed like butter. You don’t know much about Star Wars movies do you?
Nope, hardly anything at all. Saw it the week it opened in 1977, but not much else. Did they ever make another one?
You mean every Star Wars movie with the exception of Empire Strikes back?
Palpatine and Darth Vader survived until Episode VI, so I don’t know what you’re going on about.
It was more about his complaint that the villains never had the upper hand in the prequels. My comments was that they didn’t really in the OT as well with the exception of ESB.
The real villain was Palpatine in those.
True, but it’s not like the villains had to be mindless droids and racists trade dealers. The villains who were cool got killed off immediately…
What do you mean? Jar Jar Binks lived!
Luke would tear apart his nephew ? he ‘s gonna fall to the dark side
So Obi-Wan fighting Anakin meant Obi-Wan would turn to the dark side? So Yoda fighting Darth Sidious meant Yoda would turn to the dark side? Luke needs to fight Kylo Ren for the good of the galaxy. Unless, it was something like Kylo Ren was defenseless then yeah, that’s not the Jedi way.
yeah ofc he has to fight him but not necessarily killing him, and tear apart for me sounds more like dismembering than just defeating him. i ve found Obi-Wan dismembering Anakin pretty cruel and not in the jedis ways. but that’s an other subject
Star Wars Episode VIII: Echoes of the dark side
I’ve heard of this title and the use of Rey as Neo…….the Chosen One. Sounds a terrible idea if true, would be better if she was a clone of Anakin/Luke, which if you can do clones can be made female…
C’mon, ‘exclusive’ reddit posts are never true.
I hope so…
Makes an Empire remake not seem so bad by comparison.
Are you saying that the Star Wars universe is actually just a Matrix, and that Rey is just a computer programmer in the real world?
No……there is a rumour that they are going to suggest there have been several Chosen Ones and Anakin was the last, with Rey the next incarnation. Sounds to much like the Matrix and not Star Wars to me.
I was joking, but yeah it does sound strange. Anyway, I thought that Palpatine had created Anakin, and that the prophecy of the Chosen One “had been misread”?
Yeah I do hope the re-watch all the previous films and take notes…. It seemed to me either Palpatine or Plagueis had created Anakin through experiments, would be a shame to go off on another line and steal from the Matrix.
Bluestreaking, what’s your thought’s on Luke? Do you think he’ll be tempted with the thought of revenge? After what happened to his Jedi temple and the death of Han.
And will we see a shot of Luke looking up and screaming “KYLO!!!!!” ala Wrath of Khan? 🙂
I feel like Luke has been a tool for a long time. He was basically used by Yoda and Obi-wan to get revenge on Palpatine, they never expected him to actually redeem Anakin while he was at it. Getting sent to kill Palpatine was a very non-Jedi move, the right move, but not a Jedi move. Luke proved himself to be more of a Jedi than his masters by refusing his mission and standing aside.
But at the end of the day to be a Skywalker is to have that draw to the dark side, they are a very emotional family. I feel like both Luke and Rey will be tempted, Rey moreso than Luke considering I honestly believe she will fall to the dark side at some point.
– Bluestreaking
Just please, for the love of God, come up with something original this time.
Nothing is 100 percent original. Write any story, I will find fictions with similar plot points. Nothing is really original anymore.
Yes, but that doesn’t mean someone should copy roughly 70-80% of already existing work. While the prequels were also very similar to the originals, they had enough changes to help differentiate them.
And he explained why he and Larry did what he did.
And yet, weren’t as good.
The things that were similar in TFA were minor compared to the huge things that were different. A trench run again? Okay, that’s the same, but it was a backdrop to the villain killing his father (new), a woman accepting her powers (new), a stormtrooper turning against evil (new), a search for a legend (new), etc…
The major beats were new.
There is no such thing as original, and Star Wars is one of the least original works in existence
I beg to differ. I am working on an completely original story at the moment. At least to my knowledge it isn’t similar to anything. It also allows me to explore just about any situation or circumstance that I happen to feel like addressing.
I’d like to hear your “original” pitch. Just saying.
Maybe on a different forum or somewhere less public. Not here though as I’m not comfortable with where it’s at yet as far as putting it “out there” yet. I really don’t want too much outside feedback to push the way things set up either. That said, I’m not opposed to getting your insight however as you seem to be a reasonable/sensible human being from the interaction I’ve had with you. Insight from such is always welcome.
I like the overall main idea of this article. That being said, one should really do a little bit of proofreading before posting.
He did proofread this, people just miss stuff. If actual constructive criticism if preferred, here’s an example of what appears to be a word that was skipped; I feel there’s something missing between “an” and “lie’: “…woman who would not let such an lie.”
But that shit happens sometimes, no biggie
That’s not the only error though. It you’re looking for constructive criticism however there are issues with the article outside of the grammatical and spelling ones. Proof reading isn’t just for spelling and grammar. It’s also to make sure that the arguments and thought’s presented in the piece are laid out in a coherent and intelligent manner. The arguments and thought’s presented, while fairly clear and concise, seem almost too simply put. Editorials are usually well written and well thought out pieces.
This article only explores the absolute bare minimum of any of these conflicts and seems to be fairly one sided in the way it looks at them. For example, It would be more plausible that Kylo Ren would have, at some point after the events of VII, told Phasma that he killed FN-2187 because he more than likely would have believed it himself. While Phasma will more than likely be leading the campaign against the remainder of the Republic/Resistance I would expect her to be personally tasked with hunting down Poe. Hux will probably be more concerned with fleet level things and the hunt for Leia and the Resistance High Command, or possibly leading the hunt for Skywalker himself.
These are all themes (or similar to themes) that could/should have been explored in the article as counters or alternatives to the ideas presented. Not saying the article wasn’t an alright read, but it was lacking in many ways. Content, sentence structure, grammatical errors, etc. All of these things can actually turn readers off to specific writers/articles/websites and eventually have a direct effect on site traffic. While having more articles and people writing them may increase traffic in the immediate scope of things, over the long run that traffic wont stay consistent if the content presented isn’t of quality (again, not saying the article was bad, nor am I saying the article isn’t relevant or poignant, just making a point). So yes, it IS a “biggie”.
In all fairness it almost feels like the article was rushed as it stands. It’s not bad, but it could be better. Having someone else proof read the articles wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing either (not sure if they are or not).
Bluestreaking, I hope this post isn’t taken as an insult or in a negative way as that is not my intent. I do enjoy your articles, otherwise I wouldn’t be here reading it in the first place. But the above poster took the constructive criticism of the OP and turned into a dick about it. So I wanted to explain through constructive criticism that he was wrong and that proof reading IS a big deal (again, not saying you don’t as I don’t know one way or the other). But constructive criticism shouldn’t be ridiculed. It should be encouraged and should help create a dialogue between the writer and their audience.
I too would like to clarify that I make books for a living, and proofread on a regular basis. No one’s paying money for this article and the author is a newer member, so all considered, I’m not involved or invested enough to really get too strung up about it. For what it is, it’s a decent read among many other articles I read on a daily basis. All considered, I don’t really see why this article is being singled out. Is it a crime to be less than ideal or mediocre? No. Writing takes trial and a heaps of error before it reaches perfection, as any (successful) writer can attest to.
Fair enough. It is a decent read and I wasn’t necessarily singling it out. We are all here because we WANTED to read the article. The OP brought up the fact that it FEELS like it hasn’t been proof read. It was perfectly valid constructive criticism. You were a dick about it and chastised him for it, as I’ve already explained to you. As for your last point, yes, there is something VERY wrong with being satisfied with putting out mediocrity. You should strive to put out the best and most complete ideas that you can in an editorial such as this.
There is also nothing wrong with expressing disappointment with the length or content of the article, yet still enjoy the article for what it is. The comment sections are here for this reason, to discuss the article’s points, both good and bad. Which the writer should welcome since it could directly benefit his future work and his ability to write more complex and complete articles that are more than 30 second reads.
There is nothing wrong with short and sweet, but as such the margin for error with the audience shrinks. They are much more noticeable in short articles as they stand out more. Especially when there are multiple errors. As someone with a career in which you “make books for a living, and proofread on a regular basis.” you should be ENCOURAGING him to proof read and follow through with his ideas more, not encouraging him to shoot for mediocrity.
I (among others) want to see better overall writing and more well written and complex articles because it keeps me (us) coming back. I want to see the writers improve and watch them grow in their writing style and the way they put together their pieces. It makes the site more valuable to the readers AND to the owners/admins. Why in the world would you ever encourage someone to NOT better themselves? I must say it’s really disappointing to see someone actually advising an (aspiring) writer to settle for something that feels incomplete and just reaches the adequate mark. Might I ask where do you work that you get to make books and proofread for a living yet you don’t encourage your writers to get better? Just wondering, mainly so I don’t make the mistake of actually buying or supporting anything you have a hand in producing.
Now you’re starting to sound like an old editor of mine
“Robert your work is too damn short!”
“Robert why do you have 50 billion errors in everything you write! It undermines the points you are trying to make!”
“Robert you capitalize at a 3rd grade level!”
I definitely need an outside proofreader, and I have had a revolving door of editors for my personal work (I have a tendency to drive them off). When I proofread myself I seem to constantly not find enough errors, this is an issue stemming back to high school where I was constantly berated for not proofreading after I had spent hours doing so. I hope one day that as a site we grow to the point that we can have a dedicated proofreader for noted error prone writers such as myself.
Also if you guys want longer articles I am more than happy to oblige 🙂
– Bluestreaking
First off, thank you for not taking this conversation the wrong way. Too many people these days would be unable to have this conversation without getting upset. Secondly, longer articles would be more than welcome in my opinion. While I enjoy the shorter articles, I would really enjoy something with a bit more meat as it would spark better and more thought provoking conversations. Not just words for word counts sake, but as I stated earlier, maybe run down the rabbit holes you present in the articles rather than just circling them. 🙂 Last, I’m no professional, but I’d be willing to proof for you anytime as I do enjoy your articles and would like to see them be a bit…more (not really sure how to word this so I hope that makes sense). 🙂 Not that I’m all that great, I am just very particular with words. If not, then I hope to see more articles from you in the future!
slow down, proofreading is important, that goes without saying. My point is that the article’s done and published and no one’s turning back time to rewrite the article. In the future, yeah, of course improve, how could you not want to improve? In the future.
In fact I legitimately do have work to do right now and I go here to “take 5”. I’ve got other issues to deal with and I really wasn’t thinking about all this too seriously because I have no investment nor reason to take this that seriously, and if that’s dickish then clearly I’ve been wrong about every single aspect of using the internet since the first day I got a computer. It seems you’re more interested in this than I am so I’ll back off and let you do the talking.
I’m interested in that I enjoy reading the articles here, and would prefer them to be a bit more substantial. The fact is however that this isn’t just a issue in this article/site. It’s an issue all over the web. The people here don’t seem to be the normal drooling idiots and short, sloppily written articles will only encourage trolls and discourages thoughtful and constructive conversation. Not taking it seriously is one thing, encouraging the author to strive for mediocrity and encouraging bad habits to another aspiring author only degrades the entire community.
I hope Poe actually gets some scenes with Rey in the next one, Especially if he really is part of the new big 3.
Decent hypothesis. Though, to digress a little from the topic; it came to my mind when you mention Poe being just as if not more celebrated than Luke a la ANH, then what happened to Lando? Lando destroyed Death Star under harsher circumstances than Poe did, and way harsher than Luke’s lot by any measure. You think that, all said and done, Lando would be just as well-known as Han and Luke, perhaps more than Luke. Bear in mind the Force-war between Luke and the Sith is not within household knowledge, it would be a more obscure story.
Let’s just break down what the newspapers would say about The Battle over Endor(‘s moon):
1) Small squad of troops led by Rebellion politician along with transport liaison enlist the help of locals to bomb Imperial shield generation facility, kill 102 imperial servicemen.
2) Fringe-religious warrior fighting for the rebels surrendered to Imperial forces before the battle. Sources claim he was present on The 2nd Death Star at the time it was destroyed, presumed dead.
3) DEATH STAR DESTROYED!! Search for OUR EMPEROR still ongoing. The Second Death Star assaulted on Rebel suicide mission. Rebel pilot who fired the killing shot has been positively identified as Lando Calrissian, who is both responsible for the destruction of the space station and the deaths of everyone aboard, including top-ranking military figures, The Emperor’s personal agent, and The Emperor Himself.
Now, you tell me which one of those stories is on page 10, which one is on page 6, and which one is cover-page with biggest headline.
Considering that JJ was allergic to showing the slightest bit of anything that could possibly be construed as politics, there’s no reason Lando couldn’t be viewed as the hero of the entire war or have held high New Republic office for decades or had a gigantic galaxy spanning business…we just weren’t shown it because JJ was only interested in retelling ANH with new characters and didn’t want to give off the slightest hint of prequelitis. I rather resent that because I’m actually interested in galactic politics but it is what it is and there’s no need to assume Lando has been forgotten by the galaxy just because he hasn’t shown up in any of the new stories yet.
Lando should be just as much a big deal as Han Solo is, if you look at it realistically. What makes Han Solo different from Lando, other than the fact that he’s “the main character”? It’s not politics to mention Lando’s existence. I see how Lando had nothing to do with TFA because he didn’t fit in the story, that’s all right. What bugs me is that they seem to be making a point to avoid even talking about Lando for the entire series. Remember, far as we know, they are currently working on three movies and yet they haven’t even given Billy Dee Williams A CALL. That is purposeful evasion from a specific individual that should otherwise be a major character. Did Billy commit some horrible crime I’m not aware of? (not a rhetorical question, I actually am curious what the hell is going on here).
You’re 100% right. Although at this point I think if they were going to introduce him it would make more sense to film the scenes secretly if possible and have it be a big surprise. He just did voice work for a Lego Star Wars short a few years ago so he’s obviously not adverse to reprising the role…
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I’m guessing that VIII will be the pair of EBS, and so we will see the First Order and Kylo/Snoke dominant in the way the Empire and Vader were in ESB. I do wonder if it would get a bit ‘repetitive’ having each of VII, VIII and IX ending with a Ben/Kylo Rey duel. Maybe we will get a Luke – Kylo duel instead in one of them?
I’d like E8 to be story about revenge. That would be very cinematic.
Phasma at the front of the first order? I doubt it! She’s responsible for the destruction of star killer base! She will be a mercenary at best probably on the run from the first order!
Snoke and Kylo may not be aware of her failure.
Interesting thoughts …I say more editorials …good reads during breaks at work etc… and longer