SWNN’s The Resistance Broadcast Episode 32: Exclusive Interview With Аuthor J.W. Rinzler!

The-Making-of-Star-Wars COVERJ.W. Rinzler could safely be called the authority on Star Wars, at least as far as the Original Trilogy goes. Rinzler is responsible for putting together three of the most comprehensive books on the making of each classic film. If you want to get lost in the fascinating stories behind what it took to make the Original Trilogy come to life, I cannot recommend these books any higher. Since their release, I have read each one multiple times, and because of the wealth of information Mr. Rinzler contributed to each book, I learn something new each time.

Mr. Rinzler was kind enough to spend an afternoon discussing what went into making these books and his own views on why Star Wars is such an enduring saga to all generations. Enjoy!

 

 

SWNN: Were you working on a “Making of…” for The Force Awakens?

Rinzler: I was with them (Lucasfilm) right up until the release of the film. My last day was December 31st. And um, yeah, I did a manuscript of The Making of The Force Awakens with Mark Vaz. I’m not the spokesperson, you know, I’m not sure what the last thing they said, in terms of what’s happening with the book. I think they have delayed it. For, you know, whatever reasons.

 

SWNN: Were you on The Force Awakens set as much as you were on Revenge of the Sith?

Rinzler: I wasn’t on the set at all. Mark Vaz was. We kind of split up duties in a way, that’s one way of putting it. He was on the set, I forget exactly, but at least a few weeks, and so he got a lot of eye witness stuff. Aside from that, probably better if I don’t say anything.

 

rinzler_lucas

 

SWNN: I was wondering if you ever, in talking with George, obviously before he sold the company to Disney, if he ever talked about his intentions for the Sequel Trilogy? You know, what his broad strokes would have been for the Skywalker saga, essentially.

Rinzler:  He did, but given how he’s said they didn’t really follow his ideas, it’s for him to say. Because the book has been delayed, I really don’t think I can talk about it–except to say that when the book does come out, if it’s as originally written, fans will learn a lot more.

 

SWNN: That’s fine. I just thought I’d throw that out there. You said that from December 31 you no longer work at LFL. Does that mean that the book will be finished without any further contribution from you, and will you be still listed as one of the authors as it is right now on Amazon?

Rinzler: I’ll still be one of the two authors, me and Vaz, at least that’s my assumption.  When they are ready to go I assume I’ll be asked to help finish up, etc.

 

SWNN:  Is there any chance to see you back working with LFL and doing some future Star Wars projects, or your divorce with them is final? Is there a place for compromises?

Rinzler:  I wouldn’t call it a divorce; it was just time for new and younger folks to carry on and time for me to go freelance, for personal reasons, too.  It’s possible I’ll do another book or two with Disney/Lucasfilm, yes.

 

 

On the process of writing the Making of… books:

 

“…first, do a lot of research, and slowly develop what I call a chronology timeline.  So I would read all the different versions of the scripts and get the call sheets and production reports and post production stuff I could find about ILM.  Some people had diaries and just try to get all the information I could from back then to find out literally day by day, week by week, or month by month to find out what happened when.  Then, I go through all of the interviews and kind of separate what people say, separate it out of these interviews to where it actually happened.  Stories start to kind of form, because people would talk about the same things, and so then you get a dialogue forming between people who were there.  It’s just a question of doing more interviews, filling up holes.  

 

“I’d always be taking notes for things to ask George that only he could answer.  That was always fun.  At the end I’d have like, three pages of questions.  I’d give him the first draft and he’d go through and correct some things.  It would, sort of, refresh his memory, and then we’d have a two or three hour long talk and fill in the gaps…”

 

 

On George Lucas:

 

“I got to know George when I was writing the Episode III book, following him around for three years on Revenge of the Sith.  After I wrote that book, I think he had confidence in me and I pitched the idea that there had never been a making of Star Wars book, which was insane, and we were coming up on the 30th anniversary, so I said ‘Why don’t we do one?’.  He said ‘Okay’.”

 

george lucas TESB

 

“George was self-financing it (The Empire Strikes Back).  Which was this really crazy thing to do, I mean, nobody did that.  John Ford famously told Steven Spielberg, whatever you do, never spend your own money on a movie.  Here was George, just kind of flaunting that advice, spending his own money, because he wanted control; but, then having to go way, way over budget.  Then having to go back to the banks and ask for more money.  Back to Fox and ask for more money.  I think it was really hard for him, in that sense.  It made him very angry.  He almost lost control and his whole company was on the chopping block.”

 

“He (George) went out on a huge limb with Yoda, which could have been a disaster.  They were auditioning monkeys at one point (LAUGHS).  It’s hard for me to imagine having the kind of guts to do anything that crazy.  He was friends with Jim Henson.  George once told me:  ‘Look, I’ll jump out of a plane, but I usually have some kind of parachute.’  He figured with Jim Henson and those guys they would come up with something that would work.”

 

George uses the Star Wars world to explore more contemporary issues that interest him.  Because he’s very interested in politics and sociology and history, and everything.  An incredible mind.  So, the first Star Wars film was very much parts of Apocalypse Now, Vietnam, Nixon, and everything like that.  It was still a movie about leaving home, which is what THX and American Graffiti are about.”

 

Actors Hayden Christensen (Anakin Skywalker) and Ian McDiarmid (Supreme Chancellor Palpatine) discuss a major scene in the Supreme Chancellor's office with director George Lucas. Photo by Merrick Morton.TM & © 2005 Lucasfilm Ltd. All Rights Reserved. Photo by Merrick Morton.

 

One of the first things George said to me when I interviewed him on Episode III was, ‘You know, I’m not a director, I’m not a film director.’  I was thinking ‘What?  What is he talking about?’.  He says, ‘Steven Spielberg, he’s a director.  He says put the camera here, lay down the dolly track, and so on.  I’m out there collecting footage.’  He’s collecting material, which he then works on in the editing room.  For him, the whole process is very painful, up until he gets to editorial…I think that’s the part, relatively speaking, he enjoys the most.”

 

How he sort of spearheaded the sort of transfiguration from celluloid film to digital so he could seamlessly integrate visual effects shots into the live action shots.  I mean, that’s huge.  Every single film made today benefits from the fact that he bankrolled that stuff.”

 

 

On the reception of the Prequel Trilogy:

 

The Prequel Trilogy is really good storytelling, that’s what people also forget.  You can peel back the layers.  George wanted to do a book called Star Wars In History.  Well, I read all these essays by historians on Star Wars, most of the time they’re writing about the Prequel Trilogy, because it’s so rich in content.”

 

It’s a very, very interesting story, and a really difficult story to tell, which he (George) manages to do with very few brush strokes.  People take it for granted, but it’s not easy to do.  If it was, there’d be more films like Star Wars out there, and there aren’t any.”

 

starwars_prequel_posters

 

In the Prequel Trilogy, everybody had ideas about what they wanted it to be.  A lot of people wanted it to be Darth Vader hunting down the Jedi.  You know, George had his own ideas about the story he was going to tell.  I think it was so different from what a lot of people, at least a few very vocal people wanted, that people reacted very badly to it.  I think the kids who saw it just love it.  That’s something some of us older folks don’t want to admit, that for people growing up with it now, they prefer the Prequel Trilogy to the Original Trilogy.  They actually like it better.  As those people get older, the Prequel Trilogy will be reviewed and revisited.  People also forget that the Original Trilogy was not perfect.”

 

 

Mr. Rinzler and I talked about much more, these are just a few of the many highlights.  You can listen to the whole interview on our Resistance Broadcast podcast below.  SWNN thanks Mr. Rinzler for his valuable insight and time!

 

 

 

 

Links mentioned in the interview:

 

J.W. Rinzler’s Website

Rinzler’s short film, Riddle of the Black Cat based on Edgar Allan Poe’s The Black Cat.

The enhanced editions of his The Making of-books for iBooks via iTunes (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED)

J.W. Rinzler’s Amazon Author Page

 

 

+ posts

Kyle Larson lives in Portland, Oregon. When he's not running trails, he's reading and writing.

Kyle Larson

Kyle Larson lives in Portland, Oregon. When he's not running trails, he's reading and writing.

153 thoughts on “SWNN’s The Resistance Broadcast Episode 32: Exclusive Interview With Аuthor J.W. Rinzler!

  • May 17, 2016 at 8:06 pm
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    Watch out: haters incoming to chime in with their nerdrage-fueled comments…

  • May 17, 2016 at 8:10 pm
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    “As those people get older, the Prequel Trilogy will be reviewed and revisited.” Can’t wait for this to happen, George will get validation, mark my words.

    • May 17, 2016 at 8:31 pm
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      I can’t wait for the time in which an idiotic alien talking gibberish, stepping in poop and getting farted on will be viewed as a brilliant idea.

      • May 17, 2016 at 9:41 pm
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        It’s brilliant because it makes such a great contrast to all the scenes where characters walk and talk and the poop is their dialogue.

        • May 18, 2016 at 6:55 am
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          Walking and talking, sitting and talking, sitting and talking and then getting up and walking and talking.

      • May 18, 2016 at 1:22 am
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        As much as all that makes me cringe, was Threepio really THAT much better? A cowardly, annoying, bumbling, effeminate robot who can’t walk properly and is about a useful as a condom machine in the Vatican. Rose tinted glasses and nostalgia make us think he’s a great character.

        • May 18, 2016 at 2:04 am
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          No, common sense does. I don’t recall 3PO doing bathroom humor, I don’t remember him talking like a jackass and I don’t remember him being hated to the degree that Jar Jar was.

          • May 18, 2016 at 3:05 am
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            Because you weren’t alive in 1977. People HATED Threepio.

          • May 19, 2016 at 1:19 am
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            Pretty sure more Threepio costumes were worn during 1977 Halloween than all of Jar-Jar’s Halloweens since 1999.

  • May 17, 2016 at 8:13 pm
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    As a kid growing up when the Prequels were coming out, I can definitely vouch for us really loving those films. It was those films not the originals that I dreamed about. My friends and I would pretend we were clone troopers in the backyard so the prequels will always have a soft spot in my heart. I think the kids who just watched the Force Awakens are having similar reactions.

  • May 17, 2016 at 8:14 pm
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    “The Prequel Trilogy is really good storytelling”? Sorry but that’s really not true.

    • May 17, 2016 at 8:23 pm
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      😉

    • May 17, 2016 at 9:38 pm
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      I’m not sure it even qualifies for storytelling

    • May 17, 2016 at 10:05 pm
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      It’s all subjective opinion, not science, people.

      • May 17, 2016 at 11:12 pm
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        That quote, though, isn’t opinion. “Good storytelling” is an actual science, with a result that can be derived from complexity, among other things.

        • May 18, 2016 at 6:06 am
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          It’s not science, to one person it may be good, another bad. Who established what “good” is?

          • May 18, 2016 at 6:54 pm
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            Decades upon centuries of storytellers and scholars of storytelling established what “good” is.

            There’s a difference between “something that is good” and “something that you like”.

          • May 18, 2016 at 10:11 pm
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            I still say it is in’t that simple. It it was scientific to get the best, you could just hire the objectively best writer in the world and some people would still think it is terrible.

        • May 19, 2016 at 2:22 pm
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          I agree that as a culture, we’ve largely agreed on what should constitute a “good” story, but calling it “an actual science” or even just a “science” is off the mark.

      • May 18, 2016 at 10:03 pm
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        Good storytelling is certainly not subjective opinion. And while it’s not science, it’s art and skill that are based on ability to tell a good story well that resonates and engages the audience. In sum and rephrasing the sarcastic analysis of Mr. Plinkett of the PT “in the PT instead of using special effects to tell a story, GL used a story to tell special effects.”

        • May 18, 2016 at 10:07 pm
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          It’s not that simple. It’s like abstract art, people saying it doesn’t look good because it doesn’t look like any actual object. Can it be scientifically proven, like rain is wet, or something like that.

          • May 18, 2016 at 10:11 pm
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            Good storytelling is not abstract art, no. Again, it is not a question of subjectivity. But of course, if you are happy with the PT, that’s perfectly fine. You have a full right to enjoy something even if I or others think it is subpar and definetely could and should have been much better. For me and many others, the PT were a missed opportunity…

          • May 19, 2016 at 2:08 am
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            And I think some people would think it was missed opportunity no matter wrote or directed.

  • May 17, 2016 at 8:16 pm
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    “People growing up with the Prequel Trilogy prefer it to the Original Trilogy.”

    Speak for yourself, I was born the same year that The Phantom Menace began production and I prefer the OT to the PT by a mile.

    • May 17, 2016 at 8:26 pm
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      Well what do we have here, a Millenial contrarian hipster (and a female too).

      • May 17, 2016 at 8:36 pm
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        As opposed to a delusional millennial who thinks the movies he enjoyed as a kid are excellent when the most basic understanding of what makes a good film would show completely otherwise, and then makes vindictive, personal attacks against other people who don’t love the same things he does?

        • May 17, 2016 at 8:41 pm
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          Here we go again with the obsessive and pretentious geek/nerd cinephile armchair filmmaker talk *rolls eyes* (who acts and talks like an expert in making big budget blockbuster films but is really a poser)

          • May 17, 2016 at 8:49 pm
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            Right. I should be like you and post a bunch of insulting images and name calling as replies. That would give me so much more credence as a rational voice on this board.

          • May 17, 2016 at 9:11 pm
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            It’s not us, the geek/nerds, is the big fishes in LFL who decided everything from now on will have the OT vibe rather than thr PT vibe.

          • May 18, 2016 at 12:09 am
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            If they used the PT vibe in sequels to the OT it just wouldn’t make sense. Visually its the right move to follow on from the OT era.

          • May 19, 2016 at 7:12 pm
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            It’s not only visually, it’s specially the fact that the stories are character driven as the OT was. This is the main difference. Characters move the story forward, not the events surrounding them.

  • May 17, 2016 at 8:16 pm
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    What he said about the PT is so true, I’ve been saying that for years. I have 5 nephews, all younger than 15 years, and they all love Star Wars, every single episode, but in truth, it’s the prequels that they love the most. This whole Prequel Trilogy bashing is thankfully a passing phase localized to the aging and outdated generations which is us lol And I think that a majority of people were influenced by the negative views of others. I had friends that walked out of The Phantom Menace loving it, then months down the line, suddenly change their mind completely. Couldn’t help but think it had more to do with fitting in with the majority of moaners than stating their actual opinion.

    • May 17, 2016 at 8:23 pm
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      I agree to an extent, though I think a lot of the hate is totally justified. They’re very flawed films on a variety of levels, and while the OT is also flawed, those flaws aren’t as obvious and numerous as the PT’s.

      The way I see it, it’s a lot like the Matrix sequels. You see and love the first one, think “woah awesome, where are they gonna take it?”, then it happens and the filmmakers clearly thought that what was important wasn’t actually important and left everyone with an unfocused mess.

      Don’t get me wrong, I DO like the prequels, but they’re fundamentally lower-quality products than the originals. There’s a difference between something that’s good and something you like.

        • May 17, 2016 at 8:24 pm
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          Why bother commenting if you’re not going to say anything meaningful?

          • May 17, 2016 at 8:29 pm
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            See attachments. Also, I’m not going to bother getting into a discussion with you as you’re probably set in your ways anyhow.

          • May 17, 2016 at 10:50 pm
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            Oh, I didn’t see those, they didn’t load on my shitty old computer. I’m sorry.

    • May 17, 2016 at 8:27 pm
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      Likewise, ever since it came out, there have been people bending over backwards to defend it and come up with any number of inane reasons to explain away the inconsistencies, the horrible dialogue and acting, the idiotic and completely unlikable characters and the ridiculous overuse of CG. The reason why people changed their minds after the initial viewing is because they wanted to like it so much – they had waited 16 years for it to happen, they couldn’t accept that it was really that bad and they wanted their long-standing expectations to be fulfilled. When they finally were able to be honest with themselves, they realized it really wasn’t good. And no, the criticism isn’t fading away. I don’t know how you get that impression. With the release of the new movies, people keep saying things to the effect of “at least it’s not as bad as the prequels.”

      • May 17, 2016 at 8:35 pm
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        Nope, wrong, the tide is turning. Gen X-ers will be less and less influencial as time moves on, and Millennials will be more and more on the spotlight (and you’ll see more defense articles now).

        You’re still in the delusional and irrarional, loud and vocal minority despite what you’d like to think (as various stats and data have shown).

        And nope, it’s more about haters not getting the movies they had made up in their minds more than anything else (and instead of coming to terms with that, they just continue moping about it like a kid throwing a temper tantrum just because he/she isn’t getting their way).

        But alas, I see whom I’m talking to and realize that there’s no use arguing with someone who’s set in their ways.

        • May 17, 2016 at 8:47 pm
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          The only delusional people are the ones who saw these movies as kids, thought they were great because they didn’t know any better at the time, then pretend as adults that they were still great, despite having no ability whatsoever to defend them because they’re simply indefensible. You have no argument for this crap and you never will. Nothing will explain away Jar Jar. Nothing will explain away the acting. Nothing will explain away the dialogue. Nothing will explain away the video game CG. Nothing will explain away the boring politics. Nothing will explain away the characters being unlikable and idiotic. You love them now because you loved them as kids. And you pretend that they’re still as good as you thought they were then, and it’s a joke.

          • May 17, 2016 at 8:55 pm
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            Come find me on Twitter, I’ll have more to dish out to you there than here (and you’ll see the opposite of what you claim of me having “lack of defenses”), though I’m sure you’ll just dish out nerdrage-fueled ad hominem attacks even when concrete and coherent arguments and facts are starring at you in the face (like most haters do)

            You’re acting like what you saw as a kid is still great too by the way (dishing out something that could be said back to you as well 😉 ).

            But alas, I’m talking an obsessive and pretentious geek/nerd cinephile armchair filmmaker (who acts and talks like an expert in making big budget blockbuster films but is really a poser); too set in their ways due to their close-minded nature.

          • May 17, 2016 at 8:59 pm
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            😉

          • May 17, 2016 at 9:30 pm
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            The original trilogy didn’t split the fanbase like the prequels did. Plus they sold a hell of a lot more movie tickets – 4-6 all sold more tickets than 1-3, even with significantly less theaters. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm?adjust_yr=1&p=.htm

            The opinion of the prequels has only down since their initial release, whereas the opinion of the OT has done nothing but improve. Nice try.

          • May 17, 2016 at 9:36 pm
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            The great thing about TFA and R1 is that we can all pretend the prequels didn’t happen. Even those who are involved in making this “return” of Star Wars.

          • May 17, 2016 at 9:58 pm
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            1. The OT benefitted from having multiple releases in theaters than the PT and also there really wasn’t really much of home media back then (ex: VCR’ and whatnot) so the only way one can watch them is by going to the theaters multiple times. That’s the main reason why you see them have more tickets. Also, look at international numbers, not just domestic.

            2. There was no split back when the OT was released because the fanbase was just starting to take shape then (and who’s to say that there wasn’t people that just didn’t care for SW after ANH, or just in general?). Plus, no internet back then either so (that goodness) we didn’t have to hear from loudmouth dissenters like we do now, thus allowing for the OT movies to hold.

            3. Speaking of that, yes, the loud and vocal minority got very loud over the years (hence the perception issue) but that’s only because the older folks that didn’t like the PT kept finding ways to get more loud and vocal in an effort to drown out those that were fine with the PT since they had been romanticizing the OT at the same time. It’s only because of this older group’s efforts that that was so. This didn’t happen with the OT because 1) no internet and 2) there was nothing to compare the OT to since that was the original work. But you’ll see, they’re making a comeback. (Also, it’s sad that instead of this group just dropping it, getting over it and moving on, they continue to harp on their hate year after year like if something can be done about it even though those movies are here to stay).

            Nice try though

          • May 17, 2016 at 10:17 pm
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            1. The Phantom Menace was rereleased in 3D and did so badly the other two planned re-releases were cancelled. Very few people had the desire to see it again compared to the OT re-releases.
            2. There was no split because they were good films. Star Wars fandom was established as soon as A New Hope came out. They could’ve easily been fans who didn’t like Empire and Jedi, but there were no significant detractors. And the internet’s existence has nothing to do with liking a film or not. If you don’t like a movie, you don’t see it multiple times, you don’t buy it on home video and you skip the sequels. Just the opposite happened with the OT.
            3. The prequels aren not just disliked by a “small vocal minority,” the cultural perception of those movies are that they were disappointing films. Any media that brings up the topic of the prequels always mentions that they were divisive, disappointing, or of bad quality compared to the originals. This is a typical prequel apologist assumption to pretend like the people who didn’t like them are a group of about 20 people working in a room nonstop somewhere to constantly disparage them as loudly as they can. The reality is, the trilogy split the fanbase between apologists and critics. It is plainly obvious to anyone who isn’t willfully ignorant.

          • May 18, 2016 at 12:22 am
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            The small vocal minority however IS responsible for the impression that the PT is just like, worse than cancer. Or Hitler. Or Hitler cancer, where you grow a tumorous postage stamp mustache. Most normal people saw the films, went “huh, well, that wasn’t entertaining enough to revisit endlessly” and moved the fuck on with their lives instead of yelling about a couple of movies they didn’t like on the internet for two decades. The minority who just…can’t…help…themselves are the vocal minority who have created this insanely disproportionate impression of the fan’s relationship to those movies.

          • May 18, 2016 at 1:18 am
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            I can’t agree with that. There are many in the mainstream audience who are not part of fandom who feel the prequels are poor. To suggest otherwise is to deny the obvious.

            Sometimes fans are too deep within fandom to have a proper idea of what interests the wider audience and what their view is of what has come before.

          • May 18, 2016 at 2:57 am
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            Well, the reason you still hear about them all these years later is that new episodes are bing made – and when that happens, you inevitably have discussions about how those new episodes compare in quality to the previous ones. You have people wondering about including elements form those old movies in the new ones. People praise the prequels 15 years after they have been released, and yet positive opinions are somehow acceptable, but negative ones aren’t? Why? If having an opinion on a movie passes a certain “expiration date,” then why don’t all opinions expire instead of just critical ones? Who sets this expiration date, and how many years does it take to expire? Is it just films, or does it apply to other things too? Can I no longer criticize bad things that happened in history either? And I would like to know what data or metric you use to determine exactly how many people constitute this “vocal minority,” and with such certainty that it is a minority.

          • May 18, 2016 at 4:31 am
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            (Anything that is over “5” in the respective pics constitutes as a “like”)

          • May 18, 2016 at 4:46 am
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            Also these

          • May 18, 2016 at 7:39 am
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            What B.S. Your opinion is no more valid as anyone else’s. There is no time limit for when movies can be criticised. Film critics still talk about movies from 70 years ago, and older. Guess what, you’re going to keep hearing the criticism, so get used to it. The Prequels will always be insulting trash, and as long as people exist who have a clue about what makes film good, and aren’t blinded by nostalgia, you will hear people talk about them as being insulting trash. And you can continue to not have any answer and rational defense for them as you currently have none.

          • May 18, 2016 at 12:53 am
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            Jesus Christ, there’s just no stopping haters from arrogantly wanting to get the last laugh (even if it means to spew misinformation).

            1. The only reason the other two didn’t get released in theaters was due to the fact that Lucasfilm got sold in October 2012 and because they (along with Disney) wanted to focus on making the ST from that point on, they decided to hold off on releasing the other two PT movies (along with the OT movies) in 3D. As for TPM in 3D, the results of it can be attributed to three things 1. Not many theaters were showing it (at least here in the US) 2. I don’t think it was something promoted heavily (which is ok if one is cool with that) and 3. A lot of fans already have TPM in their collection so there isn’t this real urgent need to go and pay (and more so when in 3D) to see it again in theaters as they can just watch it from the comfort of their own home (this was also the case with Titanic back when it was released in 3D that year as well; one of the greatest movies made yet didn’t exactly make eveyone flock to the theaters to see it in this new rendition, and similarly with other titles no matter how “beloved” they are). And no, you won’t see flocks of people going to the theaters to see the OT in theaters either nowadays; you might say that “well, if its the unaltered OT, they will” yet there’s not guarantee of that. The last big push to pad the OT movies’ BO earnings were the 1997 SE releases, back when it was this new thing and I don’t see big numbers getting replicated like the SE did back then, even if they went OOT this time around (whether 2D or 3D). By the way, TPM has made over $1 billion worldwide, and that’s without taking inflation into account.

            2. What about adults though? The OT movies were made with youth of the time in mind. Maybe their parents didn’t care much for it but the youth did (thus mostly them going doing repeat viewings, not the adults themselves). In any case, this youth that it catered to romanticized it too much as they got older.

            3. It sounds like you read a lot of geek culture click-bait sites (the types that cater to manchildren geeks who are of the loud and vocal minority type) because they’re mostly the only ones that use that type of rhetoric (most mainstream reputable film sites at worst say “mixed reactions”, or “mixed to positive”). And that’s also reflexive on the reviews so don’t give me this thing about split with critics (I’ll attach the RT summary). And yes, there have been multiple examples where someone makes multiple accounts on a site like this one or on YT or a forum where they’ll bash the PT on all of them to make it seem like it’s a lot of people hating. And no, don’t tell me that there aren’t people hating nonstop because that’s obviously false. Just look at the fact that you’re on here commenting your hatred for the PT even though it’s been 11+ years now.

          • May 18, 2016 at 1:16 am
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            I don’t agree with a lot of what he’s saying, but if you don’t think that the prequels have a far more negative reputation culturally then you’re in denial.

            As their generation ages then they will inevitably be viewed more fondly, but I don’t expect for a second they will be viewed as equals to the OT, even by successive generations.

          • May 18, 2016 at 2:44 am
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            And there’s no stopping apologist fanboys who love to polish the turd that is the prequels. Don’t ask them to give any arguments, though, because all they can really offer are insults directed at the person who criticizes them or trashing the original trilogy to try to make the prequels look good by comparison. The prequels have already been torn apart six ways to Sunday for their inconsistences, their lifeless, boring charctecters who all act like complete idiots, the video game CGI overkill and the total lack of quality writing and acting.

            The Star Wars Special Edition release in 1997 was a phenominal success. It shocked Hollywood that a 20-year-old movie that everyone owned on VHS could become the top movie at the box office. So the fact that Phantom’s rerelease didn’t do nearly as well, with the same home video availability should tell you something.

            It’s flatly untrue that adults didn’t like or care for Star Wars upon its intial release. Look at pictures/video of the lines for Star Wars in ‘77. Some kids, but mostly adults.

            I read a lot of things about Star Wars, because I love it. I like where it’s going – it’s being reclaimed from the insulting prequel mess, and we’re finally getting back to what Star Wars used to be – fun and exciting, with chracters we can actually care about. Not cringe-inducing, boring movies with completelt unlikable chracters.

            I see no evidence of this “turning tide” that you talk about. If anything, I see the fact the TFA made more than 2x the money as Revenge of the Sith (sold more than 2x tickets) as a sign that people are grateful to no longer have to stomach those types of Star Wars films and can enjoy the saga as it returns to form. You are blinded by your own millennial nostalgia into thinking that they are good movies. They aren’t they never will be. It was crap in ’99, is crap today and it will be crap 30 years from now. And sorry, there is no statute of limitations on criticicing movies, particularly when new episodes of that same saga are being released –of course people are going to continue to compare them. If my opinions have passed a certain expiration dayte, then so have yours – if time renders opinions insignicate according to you.

            Oh and that popularity poll has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. What’s the source of that? prequelfanboymillenials.com? How about you check out starwars.com’s poll: http://www.starwars.com/news/poll-which-star-wars-movie-is-your-favorite. It’s 70%OT – 30%PT

          • May 18, 2016 at 4:07 am
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            Yeah, talking to a wall here. Keep living in your own bubble bruh…

            (FYI you should thank the PT for making the SW fanbase bigger than it was from 1983-1999 because I guarantee that if it wasn’t for those movies, the fanbase wouldn’t be as huge as it is now coming into TFA as it would’ve mostly remained as a “Gen X thing”. Also, thank them for helping Lucasfilm be worth $4 billion. Also, I never claimed that many people liked the PT more than the OT, just saying that a lot of people, especially at a worldwide level, like the PT more so than there are people who hate the PT (haters are just very loud and vocal). Also, in that poll, all it says is favorite, never said that most people are going to choose a PT movie over an OT movie as their favorite SW film. That said, look who came in 2nd place? 😉 ).

          • May 18, 2016 at 12:32 am
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            So nostalgia has worked in the OT’s favor, while ceaseless bitching and whining from a vocal minority have hurt the PT. “Whoppee”? I guess?

          • May 18, 2016 at 2:46 am
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            And nostalgia doesn’t explain people who like the prequels?

          • May 18, 2016 at 1:13 am
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            “The original trilogy didn’t split the fanbase like the prequels did.”

            The fanbase was a fraction of the size in 1981 that it was in 1999. It’s not really comparable. Pus, things like the Ewoks did split many fans, and that was only three movies in. A lot of older fans don’t like ROTJ. Personally I prefer it to New Hope…and that’s because I was 6 years old when it came out, so it was really my first major exposure to the universe. I find the idea that you’re trying to advance that you’ve always viewed these movies entirely objectively to be a little suspect.

            You’re looking at the OT with rose tinted glasses because of your childhood nostalgia. If anything you’re helping to illustrate why the view of the prequels will evolve as their generation ages, irrespective of the actual quality of the movies.

          • May 17, 2016 at 9:23 pm
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            No, I don’t need anymore of your cut and pasted childish insults, which is all that you seem to be able to give, rather than any substantive points, because you have none to make. But that’s the way that most prequel apologists are. Use personal insults and trash the OT to make the prequels look good by comparison, because there is no way they can defend that crap.

          • May 17, 2016 at 9:45 pm
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            Funny because I see many haters acting this way more so than defenders (which I really wasn’t, nor many others).

          • May 17, 2016 at 11:07 pm
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            I dunno, I don’t think the prequels are as totally indefensible as you do. I think there are some interesting things in there, maybe not enough to justify the bad things, but enough to say “you know what, that didn’t make me want to kill myself”.

            Ewan McGregor, for instance, I thought was a cool choice for a young version of Obi-Wan. I saw a lot of Alec Guinness in his performance, which is what I hope to see from Alden Ehrenreich.

            The space battle scene in Revenge of the Sith is kinda cool, at least at face value. As is the removing of Pointless McDooku’s stupid head.

            Also, don’t forget, Droidekas, fuckin’ cool idea, these giant threatening hamsterbots with impenetrable shields. Mmm, so cool.

          • May 18, 2016 at 1:32 am
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            This says otherwise

          • May 18, 2016 at 1:07 am
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            The only delusional people are the ones who saw these movies as kids,
            thought they were great because they didn’t know any better at the time,
            then pretend as adults that they were still great, despite having no
            ability whatsoever to defend them because they’re simply indefensible.”

            I’m sorry, but this is a very silly remark. Whatever view you or I have of the prequels, someone who grew up with them as a child will inevitably have a nostalgic view of them that we don’t. Case in point, I grew up with the Star Trek and Chris Reeve Superman films. Though weaker films I am very fond of movies like Treks 1, 3 & 5 and Superman III & IV because they bring back a time of awe and wonder from my childhood. Quite simply I can’t view them with the same objectivity I would a bad movie now because of the childhood element. For instance, I hate Star Trek Into Darkness with a passion. I hate all it’s mistakes. In contrast, I’ll overlook the vast majority of the bad parts of The Final Frontier because I am nostalgic for the parts I liked as a kid.

            in the next 10-15 years you will have people who will write about the prequels with this kind of nostalgia, and many will be less objective and more forgiving than we are now. It’s just the process of time.

          • May 18, 2016 at 1:24 am
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            DING DING DING! The same criticisms have been leveled at people who grew up with the OT – they’re stupid movies, you only like them because you were a kid and didn’t know any better, they have too much pew-pew, vroom-vroom effects…the fact is KIDS like, and generally prefer the PT – it doesn’t make me HAPPY, but as ANYONE who has kids who are into these films can tell you, it’s true.

          • May 18, 2016 at 1:36 am
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            Well indeed. People often forget that back when Star Wars came out it Science Fiction was generally viewed as being rather silly and even shows that are now regarded as ground breaking classics like Star Trek and Doctor Who were just the zone of escape for the socially shunned.

            Back when SW came out people were still very much in the zone of the bleak cinema of the late 60s and 70s and their action movies were cop dramas and westerns. To that generation SW was very silly indeed, and that’s part of the reason that the OT wasn’t better critically received when released.

            People change. Nostalgia changes. Generations change. Perception changes. Who is to say that 30 years from now Michael Bay’s Transformer movies (God forbid) won’t be regarded as nostalgic movies from childhoods?

          • May 18, 2016 at 9:40 pm
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            Kids know very little about what makes a movie good. They are no indicator of quality. They are attracted to flashy effects and action. They don’t know or care about acting, or dialogue or direction. When you compare the basic elements of what we know to de quality filmmaking, there is no contest. The OT is exceedingly better. The prequels are an incomprehensible mess of boring stupidity.

          • May 18, 2016 at 2:11 am
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            You basically affirmed exactly what I wrote. A person who views them as children is blind to the flaws because of their sentimental attachment to them. So when someone attacks them they get all defensive and dream up excuses for everything about them that doesn’t work. The problem is that you have people who have view the entire saga as adults, and find the OT films simply to be superior, by the measure of all the main things a movie needs to be successful – the characters, the story, the script, how the film affects the viewer. There is no contest.

          • May 18, 2016 at 2:35 pm
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            I have viewed the entire saga as an adult, so there’s no childhood nostalgia involved, and I don’t find the OT to be superior. I actually love all the films, but my favourite is ROTS.

          • May 18, 2016 at 7:52 pm
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            By the basic measure of what makes a film good, from script, to the quality of the characters, to the affect the film has on the audience, the OT is miles ahead of the boring, flat and unlikable characters who all act like idiots and the insufferable political scenes of people sitting around talking. There is so much more fun and enjoyment in them. The prequels just make me cringe and bore me out of my mind. They give me no reason to care about anyone or anything going on.

          • May 18, 2016 at 9:05 pm
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            OK, that is your opinion, but not everyone has to agree. I’ve just provided an example that your statements are not as objective as you think they are.

          • May 18, 2016 at 5:44 am
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            That’s a very valid observation, I used to be in awe of Superman II as a child, tried to watch it a few years ago and simply couldn’t, the aging process had not been kind. The same could be said for the likes of the Jaws Blu-Ray release. Yet A New Hope, and Empire are timeless. I would contest they’re even more magical now than they’ve ever been, sadly Jedi doesn’t hold up quite so well, but I still get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

          • May 19, 2016 at 1:14 am
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            If you’re missing Trek 2 then…I’m not sure many here can relate to you.

            I mean…Khan dude….KHAAAAAAANNNNN

        • May 17, 2016 at 9:33 pm
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          Who’s more delusional

      • May 18, 2016 at 6:18 pm
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        I also see a lot of people who stand for prequels (I guess many wee dissapointed by TFA). Also, after some of people acting like savages to these movies people are angered if arrogance, and start to support prequels.
        I’m not going to pursue anybody to like me – though I’d love people whe didn’t like them in the first place to watch it unbiased. Nevertheless, I don’t understand why some “fane” think they’re entitled to bash these movies (since a lot of people love them, it’s very arrogant).
        I guess prequel trilogy will follow Blade Runner, which was at its release very poorly received, but became classic over time.

    • May 18, 2016 at 2:37 am
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      I agree

    • May 18, 2016 at 6:23 am
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      I hear you, Padme Starkiller. They are not among my favorite stories in the Star Wars Universe, but I think it’s pretty cool George made the films he wanted. Yes, the dialogue is choppy and there are more childish jokes than the Original Trilogy, but George was trying to reach a new generation of fans.

      One of the most interesting things Mr. Rinzler said in our conversation is that Star Wars films by George are almost meant to reflect the modern psyche of the generation that would view them. The Original Trilogy, at the foundation, is a story of a young man leaving home to join a war, as well as discovering himself. George and the country, in 1977, still had the Vietnam War burned into their memories. Not to say the Vietnamese were the Empire, but Americans and the rest of the world were still healing from the wounds of a devastating war. I believe George, who was on the set of Apocalypse Now with Francis Ford Coppola (making a documentary about the production), very much had that trauma in his mind when he undertook telling the story of A New Hope.

      The Prequel Trilogy generation of fans grew up, aside from The Phantom Menace, in the 9/11-era. Americans saw their security threatened and were asked to sacrifice personal freedom, and were plunged into another awful war. It was a very scary time, not only for the victims and soldiers on the frontline, but for the world watching and waiting for either another war to breakout or another senseless attack. I feel like George created an underlying anxiety of the characters in the Prequel Trilogy and used that unease as a backdrop to the story of Anakin Skywalker becoming a Jedi. Speaking for myself, that fear of how government leaders are handling a war and what it could mean for freedom was something that very much struck me when I viewed the films.

      Anyways, sorry about the rant. At the end of the day, I think there will always be disagreements about merits of the Prequel Trilogy. Hopefully we can find middle ground and try to see there are plenty of things you can take from them as a Star Wars fan.

      • May 18, 2016 at 9:33 am
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        I figured that too which is why TFA was such a disappointment to me since it had nothing larger to say in that regard other than some snide commentary on millinieals, liberal doses of PCism, and how pop culture is driven purely by nostalgia now. It was the first meta SW film made by self referencing winking hipsters like Abrams.

        I also think the 70’s and 80’s are so much more romantic (even in spite of all their problems) than the 21st century which is why the PT has not aged as well and I very much doubt ST will.

    • May 20, 2016 at 1:35 pm
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      “I had friends that walked out of The Phantom Menace loving it, then months down the line, suddenly change their mind completely. Couldn’t help but think it had more to do with fitting in with the majority of moaners than stating their actual opinion.”

      Or maybe, upon closer examination, they gradually realized the film wasn’t as great as when they’d first experienced it. That’s what happened to me and TFA. I absolutely loved it the first time I saw it. However, over the course of several months, I slowly began to see how flawed it was.

  • May 17, 2016 at 9:12 pm
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    The prequels have their faults and are not as good as the OT, however, the vile hatred towards shown towards them by some just isn’t justified. They were aimed at a new generation……its a simple fact…..and they were never going to live up the the expectations of the fans that grew up with the OT, even if they had been less CGI heavy, better directed, less childish with Jar Jar, and better written. People need to get over it and move on, there is more to life than being bitter and twisted of a movie.

  • May 17, 2016 at 9:49 pm
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    Thanks for asking about the prequels to the guy. I like the prequels afterall They’ve got great scores, most of the times vaste visuals the OT didn’t have, what is that I do skip, is the balcony scene in III. But III is also my second favourite Star Wars film

  • May 17, 2016 at 11:29 pm
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    “In the Prequel Trilogy, everybody had ideas about what they wanted it to be. A lot of people wanted it to be Darth Vader hunting down the Jedi. You know, George had his own ideas about the story he was going to tell. I think it was so different from what a lot of people, at least a few very vocal people wanted, that people reacted very badly to it.”

    If only George had listened, it could have been so better, so special.

    • May 17, 2016 at 11:42 pm
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      Because TFA teaches us how much better a story is when companies write by focus group. I think what most people who show up on websites to moan endlessly about the prequels twenty years later miss is that the stuff they bitch about is all window dressing – the use of CGI, the dialogue, the direction. What Rinzler is clearly talking about is the STORY Lucas wanted to tell and the thematic places he was interested in going. He says as much in the earlier section – Lucas clearly had a bunch of thematic stuff percolating when he wrote the story, that makes even TPM taken on its own thematically more interesting than TFA, or indeed ANH. There is much, much more going on under the surface with the PT films than there is anywhere else. The bones are very good, and for a kids’ action adventure movie, smart, while the window dressing is weak and unappealing. TFA by contrast, has very appealing window dressing, but not a single interesting thing it wants to talk about – it’s just a completely vacuous film by comparison, if albeit a pretty entertaining one. They both fail in different ways, although because they are more interesting failures, I strongly suspect the PT will still be discussed long after people stop talking about TFA.

      • May 17, 2016 at 11:58 pm
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        “the STORY Lucas wanted to tell and the thematic places he was interested in going.”

        That’s just it, the masses did not want to be taken on such a journey. The PT was just overblown with padding, uninteresting characters, and dire dialogue.

        • May 18, 2016 at 12:58 am
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          I couldn’t disagree more. I think that if the execution was much better then the vast majority of the audience wouldn’t have had a problem with the PT story at all. If anything TFA proves that the audience is more interested in execution than substance, and I think that’s what Mr. Crankypants is attempting to get at.

          I enjoy Force Awakens, but I was ultimately disappointed because it feels like simplistic, derivative, small in scope and generally lacking in true imagination. It was safe, paint by numbers Star Wars designed to ape the OT to satisfy adult fans. But most of the audience don’t care, because for most it’s more about how good the effects are and how entertaining the characters are. In that respect TFA delivers where the prequels did not.

          • May 18, 2016 at 1:16 am
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            SW is fundamentally about its characters. That’s why TFA was so royally accepted.

            It’s the reason why so many fans are up in arms that someone else is about to play Han Solo.

          • May 18, 2016 at 1:26 am
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            Again, I’d have to disagree with that. A large part of SW is about it’s characters yes. But it is also about classic storytelling and underlying fantasy and mysticism. For me, TFA dropped the ball on the latter and it didn’t expand the SW universe at all in any of these respects. That said, I think it will fare better as time goes on and I think the ST sequels will likely be sufficiently different from previous SW movies that they augment peoples’ view of TFA as part of a wider story.

          • May 18, 2016 at 2:27 pm
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            I agree that “fans” will like TFA more in the future once they see it as a part of a trilogy. It’s already very popular and obviously has made a ton of money but there are still those who insist on it being worse than any of the prequels, which I don’t agree with at all.

            Since TFA is very much setting up the characters and story for the future films, it is unique in a regard that it is the most mysterious and tells you a bare minimum story. With TFA we are barely told anything about the background of any of the characters hardly at all.

            The Originals stood more on their own and didn’t have to rely on the next films to tell the audience anything. Also, we didn’t really have any EU back then. There was a lot more exposition.

            The prequels we already know what’s going to happen in the end, since it has to happen that kind of limited the suspense on any of the major characters up to a certain point.

          • May 19, 2016 at 1:11 am
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            midichlorians are ‘mysticism’?

            Now that, is a flashpoint where the displeasure of OT fans comes into play and causes us to vehemently oppose the PT’s ‘fantasy and mysticism’, especially during senate hearings.

            Please rework that thesis.

          • May 18, 2016 at 2:07 am
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            Designed to ape the originals without understanding that there HAS to be something at least SOMETHING going on as far as subtext. Without it, it’s entertaining, but totally disposable, and does virtually nothing to distinguish itself from the vast sea of other blockbusting tent-poles that come out each year. It’s exactly what I was worried we’d get when Abrams was announced – it’s snappy, it moves along like crazy, it handles its cast well, and it’s competently made, but it’s utterly vacant and devoid of any thematic ambition whatsoever, even as little as the OT had. Ideally, I’d see Lucas back to write the story, to be scripted and directed by someone else.

          • May 18, 2016 at 2:15 am
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            Yup. It’s very similar to Abrams Star Trek in that regard. It was the exact same reservation I had and it came to pass.

            Still, I am pleased he isn’t on the sequels.

          • May 18, 2016 at 7:52 pm
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            think that if the execution was much better then the vast majority of the audience wouldn’t have had a problem with the PT story at all.

            How do you know that the vast majority of the audience felt this way? If they did, how did the Prequel movies ended up as box office hits?

            What if the majority of the fans simply like all of the STAR WARS movies?

          • May 19, 2016 at 3:54 am
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            I think you need to re-read and understand the post you quoted. Clearly you don’t understand the word “if”.

          • May 19, 2016 at 1:15 pm
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            I reread your post. I stand by my words.

          • May 19, 2016 at 1:09 am
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            One thing is for certain people will always complain about something. They do this they are damned, they do the other they are damned. Since when can they please everyone?

          • May 19, 2016 at 1:24 am
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            Most of the audience does care…..because all we do is argue over who Rey’s parents are and what Poe and Finn are going to be doing.

            So yes, people actually do care. After TPM, we just wanted a good movie. That says a lot.

          • May 19, 2016 at 3:51 am
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            “because all we do is argue over who Rey’s parents are and what Poe and Finn are going to be doing.”.

            No mate. That’e what YOU do.

          • May 19, 2016 at 4:04 am
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            Actually, I don’t. I don’t speculate. But thanks for making assumptions.

            I just observe and listen.

          • May 19, 2016 at 7:30 pm
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            “We” as in you and others.

            English must not be your first language. *shrug*

          • May 19, 2016 at 11:10 pm
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            Therefore, you are denying that many of the conversations about SW are now about Rey’s parents?

            Because I would posit that most of banter is about that, and its a hugely important topic on the minds of most SW fans – and I don’t think many people would disagree with that.

        • May 18, 2016 at 1:21 am
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          And you know this for a fact how? Not eveyone going at them had these expectations of wanting to see the PT movies be what they had made up in their minds, especially those of the younger generation who didn’t grow up with the OT. Ex: I did not, though a lot of it stemmed from the fact that I wasn’t into SW initially as I got into it later on in life. Also, I had seen TPM and AOTC before watching the OT.

          • May 18, 2016 at 1:26 am
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            Quite simply there were far more people disappointed by the prequels than those who enjoyed them.

          • May 18, 2016 at 2:44 am
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            Really? What were the numbers? I’d be interested to see that poll.

          • May 18, 2016 at 3:56 am
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            I’ve been showing stats and data that haters are in the loud and vocal minority yet you’re still wanting to believe otherwise? Smh

          • May 18, 2016 at 4:59 am
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            “Haters”? I said people who were disappointed.

            You cite Rotten Tomatoes, yet the prequels are in the 60 percents, whilst the originals are in the 90s.

            On IMDB:

            The PM: stars 6.5/10, Metacritic score 51
            AoTC: stars 6.7/10, Metacritic score 54
            RotS: stars 7.6/10, Metacritic score 68

            ANH: stars 8.7/10, Metacritic score 92
            TESB: stars 8.8/10, Metacritic score 80
            RotJ: stars 8.4/10, Metacritic score 53

            IMDB Top 250 rated movies:
            12 – TESB
            20 – ANH
            72 – RotJ
            128 – TFA

            No PT movie made it on the list.

            Box Office:
            The world population in 1977 was 4.2 billion, in 1999 it has increased to 6 billion, it’s now over 7.4 billion. with such a difference in potential customer base, how can you fairly compare box office receipts unless the movies were released in roughly the same years? More people = more cinemas and screenings = greater box office receipts.

            You then cite some argument about Empire being released to mixed reviews because two critics didn’t care for it!

            If it wasn’t for the success of the OT, there would never had been those god awful sequels.

          • May 19, 2016 at 1:08 am
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            Lot more people review movies now, too. Also the newer films have a lot more reviews compiled when they are first released.

          • May 19, 2016 at 1:14 pm
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            You’re really trying to shove your opinion down everyone’s throat, aren’t you? Why can’t you accept that not every STAR WARS fan share your feelings? None of us don’t really know how many moviegoers actually liked or disliked the PT movies. Figures from the IMDB site doesn’t really tell the whole story. The whole matter is subjective or at best, a mystery. If you don’t like the PT movies . . .fine. But don’t expect everyone to agree with you.

          • May 19, 2016 at 1:56 pm
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            Think you need to familiarise yourself with the definition of the word comment.

        • May 18, 2016 at 2:19 am
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          It is completely irrelevant what ‘the masses’ wanted. The fact is that in terms of story bones, which is what Rinzler was talking about, and what I was saying people seem to miss when they bitch about the PT, what Lucas wanted to explore is far, FAR more interesting that pandering to the whims of what fanboys think they want to see. I feel pretty comfortable saying this because we’ve SEEN what the second possibility looks like – it has JJ Abrams directing a by-committee script which strives to throw as much eye-candy at the audience as possible without giving a single thought to subtext or thematic structure. It’s entertaining but completely disposable, and does little to distinguish itself from the background noise of all the other tent pole films hitting screens each year.

          • May 19, 2016 at 1:06 am
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            What is “interesting” is obviously subjective in varies with the individual.

      • May 19, 2016 at 1:23 am
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        There’s ton of story in the PT. Its ambitious and grand.

        Just not told in an engaging or entertaining way.

    • May 18, 2016 at 6:24 pm
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      No way. I’m not a huge PT fan, but listening to the fan base is the last thing Lucas should have done. If he did, we’d have gotten a movie about Jedi fighting some Sith empire, a movie about Jedi fighting Mandalorians, and a movie about Vader hunting down the Jedi. You know; three filmed video games. The fan base does not consist of, by and large, storytellers.

      Buy yeah, I think a lot of the negative reaction was because of just that: people wrote their own movies long before Lucas’s story hit the theatres.

      • May 19, 2016 at 6:11 am
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        And the fact that the PT was bad. But also what you said.

  • May 18, 2016 at 2:41 am
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    I like Prequels more than originals. PT movies are awsome. And they will always be my favorite star wars. TFA is the worst star wars. Total ripoff.

    • May 18, 2016 at 2:55 am
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      Interesting – I suspect you may be alone in that assessment. TFA is such an odd duck though – aside from the fact that it more slowly deflates for an hour and then just stops instead of having a proper ending, I find it’s still more immediately entertaining that the PT films. That said, after leaving the theater I find the PT films are more interesting, and do more to engage my imagination, and expand on that vast galaxy of stories than TFA did. The OT struck a better balance between competent film making and subtext than either the PT or what we’ve seen of Disney Wars so far, so they’re still my preferred movie watching experience.

  • May 18, 2016 at 2:51 am
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    as someone who grew up on the prequels, i can confidently say i loved those films as a kid and YES, i saw the originals numerous times before i saw the prequels. older generation fans don’t understand that the prequels mean a lot to some people and the constant whining about them is immature and irrelevant at this point. it’s been over 10 years since they’ve been out and if you aren’t a fan, then just be the sophisticated people you assume you are and ignore the topic. let everyone be happy with whatever they choose to be happy with.. at the end of the day, we’re all here for one reason and that’s star wars. (rant over)

    • May 18, 2016 at 2:58 am
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      My kids are still young, and they gravitate towards AotC, Sith, and Jedi when they want a SW movie fix. Would I rather see them pulling ESB off the shelf? Sure, but watching the way THEY watch and enjoy these movies has made me re-evaluate the films.

  • May 18, 2016 at 6:42 am
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    Thank you, Rinzler. As one of the vast number who love the Prequels and will fervently and comprehensively defend them until his dying breath, it’s always nice to see this sort of thing crop up in the feed. This notion that there is some objectively greater wisdom or maturity in hating half the saga really is tiresome.

    • May 18, 2016 at 6:56 am
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      Well, when you start arguing that a movie containing an idiotic rubber-eared alien steeping in shit and getting farted on is somehow great, can you really be expected to be taken seriously?

      • May 18, 2016 at 7:17 am
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        Yes, because everything – yes, everything – about film is subjective. If someone doesn’t like Jar-Jar, fine. If someone finds him endearing and symbolically resonant, fine also. It’s when it enters the realm of ignorantly stating non-facts as facts, demeaning someone personally or calling their mental faculties into question simply because they have a different view to you that things get out of hand.

      • May 18, 2016 at 6:19 pm
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        “Icky icky goo!” – Bobby sings a bit lower into his seat…
        “Pee-yousa.” – Bobby sinks even further into his seat…

    • May 18, 2016 at 6:18 pm
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      I hope my dying breath isn’t about Star Wars. : P

      • May 18, 2016 at 10:17 pm
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        Haha fair enough. Ideally mine wouldn’t be either, but if needs must 😛

  • May 18, 2016 at 9:29 am
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    I’d really love to see the making of the PT done in this style, The BTS for SW is nearly as interesting as the content in the films. Especially all the drama, conflicts, and what could have been.

    • May 18, 2016 at 6:17 pm
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      Yep. I’d buy all three.

      • May 19, 2016 at 2:29 pm
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        I’d even buy ones about the TV shows, Probably some good stuff there as well.

        • May 19, 2016 at 3:30 pm
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          Beyond the value of seeing the process and procedures of movie making, Rinzler’s books are full of great stories about things that happened on set. The story about the little people and their amorous adventures during the filming of ROTJ was worth the price of the book alone.

          • May 20, 2016 at 3:05 pm
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            Things the BD documentaries will never quite capture. It’s better they are all made after the fact versus the ones that come out to promote the film since they are still trying to sell a product then and the BS filter is firmly in place. Plus you get the whole cultural impact thing over time too. I’m pretty interested in hearing an uncensored Rick McCallum talk about the PT, Especially given some very bizarre comments he gave at cons like how Boba Fet would play a large parIn III.

  • May 18, 2016 at 2:33 pm
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    I agree a lot ith Rinzler, first of all about prequel trilogy. I grew up with these movies (having see ot before though), and this is what really got me into Star Wars, and is my favorite Star Wars movies. Wonderful movies that showed such a beautiful Galaxy. There’re flaws, but original trilogy also has them (although I love these movies too). I also find that many people love them, so it also seems to me to be a vocal minority that bash them.
    George Lucas told a beautiful story with his saga, and he did it like no one else.

  • May 18, 2016 at 3:28 pm
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    “The Prequel Trilogy is really good storytelling, that’s what people also forget. You can peel back the layers.”

    Yeah, I’m not reading your book or any more of your article.

    • May 18, 2016 at 5:37 pm
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      He’s got a point though, there is quite a bit of thought put into the structure of the story. It’s just, like, literally everything else that falls apart, but in terms of the part George Lucas devoted care to, the story structure and making rhyme and shit, that part he got right, at the expense of everything else.

      • May 18, 2016 at 11:36 pm
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        Not really. Do you really look at the OT and think the acting, characters, story or effects are better?

        • May 18, 2016 at 11:57 pm
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          Mark “sold” Luke.. he was believable..
          Hayden’s no Vader

        • May 19, 2016 at 1:08 am
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          Harrison Ford as Han Solo. (No other performance needs to be reference really).
          Alec Guiness as Obi-Wan.
          Mark Hamill in ESB and ROTJ is solid.

          Some of the effects likely are better.

    • May 18, 2016 at 9:02 pm
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      How dare he have an opinion! You’re missing out.

  • May 18, 2016 at 5:57 pm
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    I’m gonna’ have to differ from the author’s opinion on the PT. I found it to be the opposite of what he’s saying.
    When I was a kid, the PT was still coming out, and I thought it was awesome… then I started watching GOOD movies and I can see crystal-clear that both the PT and the OT are bad films — HOWEVER (and this is a big “however”) the OT is likable. I can, as a almost-adult, objectively and without bias say that Star Wars Ep IV – VI are enjoyable films. And with equal lack of bias (bear in mind, at the time, I liked the PT), I can say that there aren’t really that many great parts about the PT. It definitely looks slick, there are some good action sequences, but the character-likability just isn’t there, whereas the only reason Star Wars could ever get away with its decidedly low-brow production was on the merit of the character likability and the visuals. But visuals age, character likability does not. Hence, 30+ years later a bunch of grown-ass adults are STILL talking about the films even though lots of films have better graphics by now. The reason people still even give a shit about Star Wars — when you really get down to it — is solely that of Mark, Carrie, and Harrison’s on-screen chemistry. That’s it. If they had crappy actors and crappy characters, no one would like star wars. “Dune” had good visuals, it had epic fights, but does anyone still talk about that? NO, because it provided little in terms of likable characters.

    Look, PT, for what it is, is okay, like, when you compare it to the Clash of the Titans remake. But a true classic, it is not. People will return to the PT in much the same way as I have to see it beyond the 1st impression, and they will find a flawed movie, but not only that, but a flawed movie with only one good character. Ewan McGregor is simply not enough to make up for the Big 3 that the OT had. I surmise, based on the above logic, that there simply isn’t enough emotional weight to garner nostalgia — no matter how millenial the viewer is. I think the PT will fade into history as just another sci-fi flick, having little more than popularity by association. Like Steven Baldwin, PT will eventually only be known because it shares a surname with something people care about.

    This is not to say I hate the films, it’s more just that there isn’t much that really draws me. The visuals in the PT are good, the fights are good (except for the part where Count Dooku wins against gravity and octogenarian bone-pain), and I really do respect how Lucas tried to make it a nega-OT played in reverse, story-structure-wise. Unfortunately, Lucas just seemed to miss the point where literally the only thing the audience truly, deeply cared about was the character-chemistry, but he neglected that, and the rest of the movie just isn’t enough to pick up the slack.

    But this is all rather moot anyways, it’s been years since this stuff happened. Sorry for long post.

    • May 18, 2016 at 6:16 pm
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      “…the only thing the audience truly, deeply cared about was the character-chemistry…”

      That’s not at all true. While the strength and chemistry of the OT leads is undeniably one of the great things about those movies, to say that that’s all the audience really cared about or found lasting value in is completely false. Great chemistry, sure, but the OT also had amazing action sequences, some awe-inspiring visuals, and some pretty decent world building. All of those things helped contribute to what made Star Wars, and the larger OT, such a success.

      • May 19, 2016 at 5:20 pm
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        What I’m discussing there is in terms of wide-scale history. Graphics always age, it takes a while, but they age. The graphics are good, but that’s not what makes people nostalgic. Most people don’t get nostalgic over graphics alone (unless that’s their career passion). That’s why you never hear people recalling fond memories of a demo-reel.
        The graphics are good, but they aren’t, in and of themselves, emotionally important. The importance is built by the emotional context of what the imagery means to the characters.

        http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/5/51/DSTurbolasers.png/revision/latest?cb=20130310235133

        The linked image, when taken out of context, to say, Azerbaijan, is a simple image of space defense towers. It was created with plastic and cardboard in the late 70s.
        Nifty.

        To anyone who’s privy to the context, their not focused on the plastic or the cardboard or the 70s (unless their Visual Effects buffs), but rather, to most people that image conjures up the Rebel’s desperation, the tyrannical pure evil of the empire, the adrenaline of knowing that everything you care about could be obliterated in 2 minutes. That image is seared into the collective consciousness not because of its innate value, but because of its association with the emotion of the moment. And that emotion starts with the characters.

        So, at the root, Star Wars is a lot more dependent on its characters than people tend to realize, because without the characters, we have no human reason to give a shit.

        It isn’t so much that the characters are the ONLY reason to like it — that’s a poor phrasing. A better way of saying it would be that; were it not for the characters, people wouldn’t care about the film as a whole. Take for instance Tron. A benchmark in computer graphics, but a boring film. It bombed in the box office, and literally the only attention it gets nowadays is under the academic context of its place in Special Effects history. Star Wars was always more than just good graphics, there was an emotional weight and context to it that justified and strengthened the whole into the classic it is.

        • May 19, 2016 at 6:03 pm
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          “The graphics are good, but that’s not what makes people nostalgic.”

          I disagree. I grew up during the OT-era. Most of my friends did, as well. And if you don’t think people get nostalgic about the first Star Destroyer flying onto the screen at the beginning of A New Hope, you’re really missing something. I was sitting in a movie theater in 1980 when the audience got their very first glimpse of an AT-AT – people were astounded.

          Images aside from characters can convey their own narrative. And they can very often carry their own emotional import.

          Your also dismissing the charm that dated visuals can have. If you ever get the chance to closely examine some of the props and costumes from A New Hope, I strongly urge you to do so. They’re amazing. They’re rough, made from whatever materials Star Wars’s tiny budget would permit, and sometimes show a real exercise in dedication and patience. Who cares if the Death Star gun towers don’t look quite so realistic when placed against today’s ability to convey hyper-realism on movie sets. They were built by three guys in a garage in San Francisco. That sort of history and charm carries weight; sometimes a lot of it. A lot of the passion some folks have for Star Wars stems from the movie being made under these circumstances and doing as well as it did. In a lot of ways, Star Wars was a perfect storm. Lucas bottled lightning with this flick. Good characters were the only thing in that bottle.

          I mean, would people care about those things nearly as much if the characters were flat and unlikable? Probably not. But that pretty much goes without saying in regards to any movie. Most people already understand that.

          • May 20, 2016 at 2:41 am
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            Which circles back to my original point, the Prequels didn’t have much in the way of likable characters that carried emotional weight, and so it wouldn’t surprise me if the originals outlast the prequels in pop culture consciousness. Similar to the rather prevalent observation that people have already stopped caring about Avatar, I think the PT is dangerously close to being in the same camp of “good visuals, so-so story, big hit, but not a classic” primarily because of the character-story issues.

            I will give you the point about the impact visuals can have though. That opening scene to ANH was probably one of the best beginnings to any movie.

    • May 18, 2016 at 9:02 pm
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      I would argue as you got older and started visiting the forums, your views on the PT were influenced and shaped into your current belief. While not perfect (clearly would have benefited by a better writer handling the scripts) if not director who could pull a performance out of some of these first time actors like Hayden Christensen in Episode 2 (he was ok in episode 3) they do feature a good underlying story.
      In Lucas’ defense, he tried to get Kasdan to write them, but Kasdan declined. Who knows what magic we would have gotten if Kasdan hadn’t been so selfish.

    • May 18, 2016 at 11:34 pm
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      Just face the fact that you gave into peer pressure. You’re not less biased now that you’re older, you’re more biased.

      • May 19, 2016 at 5:05 pm
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        Um. What? Look, I’ve watched both again and again to compare what the differences actually are, and I’m happy with my conclusion that the OT and the PT are about dead-even except for when it comes to the character-chemistry, in that camp, OT wins by a landslide.
        When I was young, I didn’t give a shit about character, I was only there for the adventure and the action, and so I liked them both.
        But now that I’m older, I pick up on a lot more of the character nuance. Mark, Carrie, and Harrison all had truly great on-screen chemistry, their characters were, for the most part, not only believable and well-rounded, but relatable / likable. If I were to look at this objectively, I wouldn’t watch any of them, there are better movies in existence; but the scenes with Han and Luke and Leia are all truly great scenes that keep on drawing me back because they’re just so alive and energetic and human in their portrayals (to be fair, things kinda’ started heading down-hill in Ep VI, so I’m mostly talking about ANH and TESB).
        It was, at first, peer pressure that shifted my opinion, hence my revisits to make sure of my views on the PT (during which I concluded that Jake Lloyd’s performance was not nearly as bad as it was made out to be), and I can point and identify exactly what parts of the PT fall short and say with a clean conscience that the OT is more enjoyable by any measure. But again, this is all water under the bridge, the only reason I’m still talking about it is to counter your summation that I’m “biased”. I assure you, I’m ego-narcissistic, not biased.

  • May 18, 2016 at 7:47 pm
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    Finally, someone managed to express how I feel about the Prequel Trilogy. This is especially refreshing to me after years of encountering Prequel bashing and being insulted by those who had disliked the films.

    HOWEVER (and this is a big “however”) the OT is likable.

    This is an example of the Prequel bashing I have encountered. I understand there are people who disliked the 1999-2005 movies. But I do get tired of these same fans making comments that seem to suggest that everyone shares his or her feelings, especially since there are major fans of the Prequel movies that do exist. I know they do, because I have encountered them. It’s one thing to say “this is how I feel” or “in my opinion”. But why do they have to express themselves as if their comments are facts?

  • May 19, 2016 at 2:25 am
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    Sorry, but I never judge what kids like as their tastes will change. When I was growing up I liked Rocky 4 over Rocky 1, I liked Return of the Jedi over Empire Strikes Back, I could go on and on.

    By the time I was an adult and reevaluated these movies I realized how much different my tastes had changed. Rocky 1 is a classic, while Rocky 4 is a fun but ridiculous movie. Empire is so much better then Jedi its not even close.

    I have still yet to meet any adult that prefers the PT over the OT. The only people I see who prefer the PT over the OT are on the internet and I’m even suspect of their motives. I think they feel the need to defend Lucas because of the backlash from the PT, so they defend the PT from any critical thought.

    I like the PT and can enjoy it for what it is, but I have to seriously question your taste in movies if you think it’s better then the OT. It’s no different then saying Godfather 3 is better then Godfather 1 & 2, its insanity.

    • May 19, 2016 at 1:18 pm
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      I like the PT and can enjoy it for what it is, but I have to seriously question your taste in movies if you think it’s better then the OT. It’s no different then saying Godfather 3 is better then Godfather 1 & 2, its insanity.

      This seems like a judgment on those moviegoers who tastes differ from yours.

      • May 19, 2016 at 1:45 pm
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        No doubt its a judgement, but there are certain opinions that are in the majority as that’s why they’re popular movies. It’s like saying The Wizard of Oz is better then Showgirls, and you would respond, “Well, that’s a judgement of a moviegoers taste.” I would answer that you’re right, but how many people are going to say that Showgirls is better then The Wizard of Oz?

  • May 19, 2016 at 3:25 pm
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    Nice to see the ‘accepted’ reception of the prequels slowly changing after the artistic disaster of The Force Awakens. George Lucas is a genius, JJ Abrams a corporate stooge.

  • May 20, 2016 at 11:39 am
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    The main criticism people have with the prequels is taking the giant leap that killing all the Jedi is worth saving one person and her unborn child.

  • May 20, 2016 at 7:27 pm
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    So alot of needless castidng. Most of the critics of his Acting competency are made by you dorks contextually trapped by whatever version your living in your own head and they didnt match. Whatever that means.

    Episode 2 is not only the worst written of the 6 with a weak payoff not only uncreatively telegraphed its peak in it but at the end when finally we see the glorious Clone Wars tle at the end is a cartoon. And on and on.

    I maintain hes never written a script. And that he shoots these films not just broadly but with the suggestions of many others far more skilled in film and the Ep. 2 and the dilluted nonsense suppsedly setting up a grand universal deciept but also with a key love story and a floating apple that looks a like a blow job in gay porn and also Natalie Portman does one thing. Girl Next Door with a Secret. She walks through these films and while you never wanna see an be trying the truth is its honest and when it doesnt work at its least its effort. She smiles and exudes and is never believeable right down to having decoys.

    As the comment about One Woman One Baby all goes to shit… Isnt that the m,ost interesting story we dont know… Cant the clunky Mito Chlorean find an origin thats its ridiculousness could grandly find a purpose ? And isnt the most Star Warsy character filled with all kinds of evil and maybe humor and also weve never met – thats everyone else would have known somehow like Palpatine was and thats the true story. I maintain Rey is so powerful becuase shes the 2nd Draft on Anakin by Palpatines hand and she is forgotten in the mess of the end of Jedi for all, And Luke somehow discovers her but all the while Kylo rises as unstable and Rey like him is better off in the sand. Or so Luke chooses for her when he Exiles himself. Truly planning on his return….Kylo says “The longer she runs the more powerful shes becomes” very wrong but my point is the same. Kylo knows exactly who she is or her rumored existence and this is the reason all the younglings ALL the youngilngs are killed.

    I think theres a reason Kylo says

    I digress. The prequels jugded on scale and creativity SO many untold leads on movies. If the planned built out MovieVerse of Star Wars is successful than these leads are a treasure chest of new movies. New stuff. More important to look forward than forward dorks.

    There Space movies that llok like the future but are in the past and filled with Archtype or its attempt and it succeeds.

    The scene with George and Rick McCallum in the first screen of Menance is what happened. He didnt film a movie he collecteed a bunch of filmed experiments with Actors and a brilliant Editor Team scotch taped and glued it into Star Wars.

    This brilliant mind has the entire Worlds attention 6 times and 2 of those times he made garbage that still changed the future of the craft and laid a foundation for such an undertaking like a MovieVerse?

    Thats pretty smart except when you tell people you throw shit at a wall… and some sticks. IN the Up fronts and documentaries. Its bizarre.

    And the best thing ever.

    Spelling and Grammar are limiting. And Siri too. lmao

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