Speculation: The First Order and the Resistance.

Star DestroyerWith the wealth of new information we’ve gotten from Celebration, one of the most tantalizing (aside from the new teaser, of course!) has to be the revelation that the Empire is now known as the First Order, and the Rebellion is apparently known as the Resistance. What might this mean in terms of the way things have unfolded in the GFFA in the 30 years since ROTJ? I’ll take a stab at a bit of speculation after the jump and also share with you a new rumor we’ve just heard on the topic.



“You know of the Rebellion against the Empire?!” This was Luke Skywalker’s first inkling that he’d stumbled onto something more than some additional chores and a bit of extra help around the farm when his Uncle Owen bought a couple of beat-up old droids from a passing band of Jawas. And, perhaps even more importantly, it was the first time we heard the names of both sides of the Galactic Civil War spoken onscreen (unless, of course, we happened to read the opening crawl aloud to our little brothers or some such thing.) ;^)



First Order


Now, it seems that in The Force Awakens, the Rebellion against the Empire has become the Resistance against the First Order.  These new faction names and some of what we see in the new teaser have sparked some thoughts for me (and, I suspect, for some of the rest of you as well) that may indicate a bit about what occurred following the death of the Emperor.


Let’s first consider the name “First Order”. I’m sure that I’m not alone in thinking that this sounds rather reminiscent of the Nazi era in Germany in the 1930s and 1940s. It has similar cultish overtones to NSDAP terms like “Third Reich” and “New Order”, and the shot from the new teaser of the legion of stormtroopers in front of the huge banner-draped balcony looks like it’s straight out of Triumph of the Will. The symbolism here is not exactly subtle.


So, let’s assume that this is deliberate, and the First Order is intended to be a GFFA analogue for the Third Reich. This would give the new “Resistance” faction some historical context, in that the Reich was opposed within Germany by the Widerstand, the anti-Nazi resistance, and across Europe by underground resistance movements in France, Poland, Italy, Belgium and most Axis-occupied nations.





Could the TFA screenwriters have drawn this directly from European history in establishing the conflict for the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy? If so, then perhaps we might extrapolate that a bit and come up with a possible scenario for what happened after the Rebellion won the war after the Battle of Endor. Bear in mind, this is based on nothing more than information gleaned from Celebration, and my own historical knowledge, such as it is. I’ve not been following most of the leaks and spoilers so far, though I’ve peeked at a few. But see what you all think of this.


After the “happily ever after” ending of Return of the Jedi, it has always been taken as a given that the Rebellion took over governance of the galaxy under the banner of The New Republic . But of course, it wouldn’t have been a simple matter to do so. Realistically speaking, there would have been star systems that remained loyal to the Empire and wanted nothing to do with a Rebel-led galactic government. There would also very likely have been systems (such as Kessel, Kuat, etc.) that were not merely sympathetic to the Empire, but that had helped the Emperor to commit what the Rebellion would consider to be war crimes.



Spice mines of Kessel


In dealing with these systems, it would not be beyond the pale for the Rebellion/New Republic to have dealt harshly with Imperial-friendly systems, particularly those that refused to accept that the Empire was no more. I don’t mean that these systems were put down by military force, necessarily. But if the Rebellion/Republic sharply curtailed trade and Senate participation to these systems as a corrective measure, that could easily set up the GFFA equivalent of the Versailles Treaty that followed the conclusion of the First World War.


For those who aren’t familiar with it, the Treaty of Versailles was one of the main peace treaties that ended WWI. It was incredibly punitive toward Germany who, as the loser of the war, was obligated to pay astronomical amounts of money to the Allied nations as war reparations. This, combined with the loans that Germany had taken out to finance its war effort, arguably led to the hyperinflation that crippled Germany’s post-war economy before the Great Depression came along and hit them with the left hook. This left a great many Germans feeling angry and humiliated by the harshness of the Treaty’s provisions.


Suffice to say, by the early 1930s, Germany was ripe for takeover by leadership that promised a return to economic and military prominence and national pride. Sadly, we all know what kind of human refuse ended up crawling in to fill that vacuum.


Returning to Star Wars, let’s consider what would happen if a similar approach were taken to Empire-loyal systems following the Rebellion’s victory in the Galactic Civil War as to what the Allies took with Germany after WWI. As I said, perhaps trade was restricted to these star systems, maybe they were barred from representation in the Senate, and it’s even possible that the Rebellion/Republic could have forced some of these systems to pay war reparations (I’m thinking specifically of systems that grew wealthy through their Imperial shipyards and other major arms production facilities.)



Kuat Drive Yards
Suddenly, you’ve got all of these star systems that have gone from proud prosperity under the Empire to being impoverished and humiliated under the New Republic… and, like Germany in the early 1930s, ripe for exploitation by those who would see them rise again to crush the Republic.


Consider also that there would have been remnants of the Imperial military that would not have been destroyed at Endor, and which could have gone underground or formed small warlord-led fiefdoms as we saw in the post ROTJ EU novels. There would also have been plenty of powerful families who maintained not only their loyalty to the Empire, but the wealth to make trouble for the Republic besides.


Add to this a charismatic leader of some kind, and very probably (especially given the crimson hue of Kylo Ren’s lightsaber) the influence of a dark Force user, and you’ve got the makings for a resurgent Empire that very much reflects Germany’s Third Reich – far moreso than the original Empire did.





Clearly, if they call themselves the “First Order” rather than the Empire, they’re trying to distinguish themselves from the Empire in some way. The rumor that Kylo Ren is obsessively collecting old Sith relics might indicate that there is a commitment here to avoiding the pitfalls of Palpatine’s reign by going back to an earlier template of some sort, perhaps returning to some sort of “first principles” of the Sith, or to the values and traditions of an earlier despotic regime that predates the Old Republic.


The quest for old Sith relics also recalls the obsession that Hitler and the Nazis had for locating what they considered to be powerful religious artifacts (“Colonel Musgrove and Major Eaton, please pick up the white courtesy phone…”) which may further indicate a deliberate attempt to pattern the First Order after Hitler’s “New Order.”


Our own staff member, TIDMADT, has uncovered what appears to be a quasi-official rumor that adds another interesting wrinkle to all of this. Supposedly, the name “First Order” is related, at least in part, to Order 1, from the Contingency Orders that Palpatine had originally put in place to be carried out by the Grand Army of the Republic (and, presumably, the Imperial military forces) under a variety of specific circumstances. We are, of course, familiar with Order 66, under which the Republic military was to put the Jedi down by lethal force if they ever set themselves against the Republic.


Order 1, allegedly, would have applied not just to the military, but to Imperial civilians as well, mandating that “all citizens of the Empire may act by whatever means necessary to preserve the Empire from any threat, internal or external.” Therefore, the stage would be even more thoroughly set for a resurgent Empire to muster large numbers of willing recruits against the Rebellion/New Republic.


So perhaps, just perhaps, the Rebellion tried too hard to quash Imperial sympathies after the Galactic Civil War and inadvertently caused the rise of something even worse and more fanatical. Perhaps the New Republic never even really took hold, with the First Order disrupting the reformation of the Republic and the Senate before it ever really got the chance to succeed. Or, perhaps the Republic did reform for awhile, and the First Order has only risen to prominence and upset the apple cart fairly recently.





Whatever the situation, we know that the X-wings we see in the teaser are the “signature combat craft of the Resistance forces in their fight against the First Order.” This and the fact that the pilots are sporting the old Rebellion “starbird” emblem on their helmets and flight suits seems to indicate that the Rebellion/Republic is back to underdog status by the time of TFA, a “Resistance” rather than a central galactic governing body. Or, perhaps the Republic is still in place, but they are funneling arms and soldiers to resistance movements throughout the galaxy. But it sure sounds a lot more like the Rebellion is now the Resistance, and the First Order has snatched the reins of power away from them.


George Lucas said, long before he began writing the Prequel Trilogy, that the stories that follow Return of the Jedi revolve around “moral and philosophical problems, such as the necessity for moral choices and the wisdom needed to distinguish right from wrong, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned.”


Perhaps, rather than simply creating a pointless rehash of the Empire merely for the sake of putting stormtroopers and TIE fighters back onscreen once again, the idea in TFA is to show a scenario in which Rebellion inflicted their own version of the Treaty of Versailles on the Imperial-friendly star systems following the Battle of Endor, thus ensuring that a new and even more virulent strain of darkness would rise in the Empire’s place (even using the technology and symbolism of the Empire.) That in mistaking punitive acts for justice, even with the best of intentions, the Rebellion may have sealed the fate of the galaxy.


Talk about a lesson in moral choices and the wisdom needed to distinguish right from wrong!


Again, this is all speculation, and speculation born of a single afternoon of consideration at that (I wrote this up this past Thursday afternoon after the trailer and “First Order/Resistance” info came out at Celebration). I certainly don’t pretend to know what J.J. and company have in store for us, or what concepts may underlie the new galactic conflict in The Force Awakens. But I thought that it might make for a fun read, regardless of whether it actually lines up in any way with what we’ll see this December.


+ posts

181 thoughts on “Speculation: The First Order and the Resistance.

  • April 21, 2015 at 10:45 pm

    Thank CHRIST this puts the rest all of those nincompoops who blathered on & on & on & on how “… the Empire is dead/finished!!” lol
    DESTOYING O-N-E MAJOR VESSEL [which wasn’t even completely built, by the way] DOES NOT DESTROY THE EMPIRE.

    Like the First Order logo, by the way.
    Gonna send it in to a company that takes a pic you send them & makes a high-quality embroidered patch out of it.

    • April 22, 2015 at 12:17 am

      The Second Death Star WAS fully built: ‘Fully armed and operational battle station’. Its unfinished appearance was a ruse. As an asset the first Death Star had as much firepower as ‘half the Imperial star fleet’, so by extension two of them must have represented half of the Empire’s firepower. If they weren’t critical to maintaining control in the New Order, why bother spending 20-odd years building them? I fully accept that parts of the Imperial machine survived Endor, but without its Emperor and his instruments of fear, it couldn’t have been the force it once was. I’d rather see the First Order as a new or resurgent threat,building on the iconography of the Empire and sweeping all before it.

      • April 22, 2015 at 3:57 am

        Just because it was fully armed and operational doesn’t mean it was finished, it just means the Weapons systems were finished.

        Trust me, I’m a Sith.

        • April 22, 2015 at 9:35 am

          You have the makings of a splendid t-shirt:

          “Trust me, I’m a Sith”

          • April 22, 2015 at 9:16 pm

            I would buy that tshirt!

        • April 22, 2015 at 11:25 pm

          Or rather trust the simple fact that the thing was clearly still under construction, and stated several times in the film including the crawl that it was under construction, just in case the fact it clearly wasn’t totally finished and there was scaffolding and such all around wasn’t clear enough to you. How is this even an argument?

      • April 22, 2015 at 4:05 am

        If you read Tarkin, which I believe is considered new canon; the Emporer created the Death Star to show the evil and awe of the dark side that had an iron fist on the galaxy so he would not have to be that face anymore. He wanted to free himself and Vader from politics so they could study further into the Dark Side.

        The Empire was just fine fire power wise without it…

      • April 22, 2015 at 11:00 pm

        They specifically say that it is unfinished in the film. Fully armed and operational in no way means complete, it means that the weapon systems are just as it stated, armed and operational.

    • April 22, 2015 at 12:33 am

      Send me that pic so I can get it tattoo’d please.

    • April 22, 2015 at 2:10 pm

      I’ll try and do that

  • April 21, 2015 at 10:46 pm

    I am thinking its more like a situation like Star Trek Deep Space 9 had with the Cardassians and the federation.

    The New Republic set up, and eventually put a treaty in place with the imperial remnant factions. Now they are causing problems and the Republics hands are tied because they would violate the treaty.

    So instead under the Radar teh republic, or possibly semi-rogue republic officers are funneling resources to border worlds and worlds within the empire to form resistance movements against the empires actions.

    This is people, on their worlds, worlds that belong to them… resisting the empire. Rather than people born in the empire, rising up against it.

    The Rebellion was about gaining freedom, the resistance is about keeping it.

    • April 21, 2015 at 11:18 pm

      I could see this idea working of possibly in play too! Or maybe even similar to our own dark ages. The rebels were too weak after ROTJ to take full blown control and put in a new republic. They were constantly battling with regional governors who didn’t want to give up power or denounce the empire’s ways. Maybe the rebellion managed to take control of the core worlds, albeit weakly, and not stable. But the remnants of the empire still maintained their pockets of power.

      These governors and remnants of the empire can’t agree on much, especialy not who the clear leader of the empire should be. Until kylo ren shows up and proves he is the clear choice. Maybe even by finding all these sith relics or proving he is a descendant of darth vader. Maybe the first order, was that palpatine stated his successor had to be a dark force user and the higher ups aren’t quite convinced of kylo’s power and he’s trying to prove he/she is worthy.

    • April 22, 2015 at 12:11 am

      I love this idea! So, rather than the Rebels having been too punitive with their post-Endor treaty, perhaps they simply left themselves open to a group like the First Order exploiting the treaty in such a way that the Republic could not directly retaliate without breaking the treaty.

      That is a VERY cool idea! I wouldn’t be surprised to see something like that happen. ;^)

  • April 21, 2015 at 10:47 pm

    You have a good point. Star Wars always tended to have paralels with history, especially WW1, WW2.

    • April 21, 2015 at 11:09 pm

      Don’t forget the Iraq war… “If you’re not with me, then you’re my enemy” – Anakin Skywalker. “Either you’re with us, or you’re with the enemy” – George W Bush

      • April 21, 2015 at 11:47 pm


      • April 21, 2015 at 11:52 pm

        “Whoever is not with me is against me” – Jesus Christ

        • April 22, 2015 at 1:39 am

          Formely “unknown” ? what does that mean. Is it like aliases ? you go by different names.

          Speaking of which, I think I have about 5 different aliases on this site I use. Representing my different split personality’s. I have a serious alias, a troll alias, a funny alias, and an analytical alias.

          • April 22, 2015 at 4:03 am

            I have feet?

          • April 22, 2015 at 6:03 pm

            And don’t forget the time you just said F@#$ It and went Anonymous ^

          • April 22, 2015 at 9:55 pm

            That was my old name when I first started reading starwarsnewsnet.com. I wrote it once as – Brewer13 (Formerly “Unknown”)- It automatically pops up when I click on the Name field. So I just click it. When I’m on my phone, I just type Brewer13. No deception. That’s just how it is.

          • April 25, 2015 at 7:10 am

            You should change how post your name, it is really strange 😉

    • April 21, 2015 at 11:51 pm

      uh, I think WW1 parallel is the trench battle of hoth, and ww2 of the nazi-looking empire, but don’t see more parallels.
      Star wars timeline was so much closer to roman history.
      Roman civilisation was first a republic, then became an empire, with senate still exsisting as a consultive institution (note that the galactic senate ends only in the middle of episode IV), but even there we must say that in roman era the transformation was both slow and rather different than on star wars.

      • April 22, 2015 at 2:10 am

        The Endor section of ROTJ, and both Death Star attacks were heavily based on Vietnam War(s). Lucas has always said that the genisus of the Rebellion victory was a determined band of non-technically proficient people triumph over a superpower if they were defending their home. the French and Americans were defeated by Vietnamese forces who were totally outmatched.

        • April 22, 2015 at 10:43 am

          I only remember him saying that about the Ewok battle on Endor. Not the Death Star battles.

          He mentioned that, along with Apocalypse Now (a project he was working on and at one point considering directing) were based on the idea Vietnam war. Outmatch primitives against a technological superior force needing innovation to win.

        • April 22, 2015 at 6:06 pm

          The Americans were defeated by lack of a solid motivation and the media. [not the last time that happened]
          The Viet cong were tough but it just came down to the fact that the Americans didn’t 100% intend to win.

          • April 22, 2015 at 7:14 pm

            Nevertheless they commited countless warcrimes.

          • April 25, 2015 at 2:25 am

            As did the VC against their own people. My girlfriend’s parents left for Australia during the fall of Saigon having lost family members to the North’s actions. No side is a shining beacon of morality. And I hope such unpolished grittiness is reflected in the new movies and other media. Shades of grey are what make movies great these days.

          • April 25, 2015 at 12:47 pm

            It is always wise not to forget who invaded whom.

          • April 27, 2015 at 10:45 am

            Yes. First we can blame the French. But that obfuscates the division between North and South.

          • April 27, 2015 at 11:09 am

            Yes. First we can blame the French. But that obfuscates the division between North and South. So I fail to see how much value there is in being “wise” about remembering who invaded who. Sounds more like a specific dig at the U.S.

  • April 21, 2015 at 10:50 pm

    Great article! So many good ideas and lots of history dropped….boom! I was thinking similarly, but hadn’t considered the possible correlation of the rise of nazi Germany.

  • April 21, 2015 at 10:56 pm


    Now take this info and realize what George would have done with the Sequel Trilogy and possibly why Disney decided to “go a different route”.
    The last thing we would want is a Star Wars with heavy emphasis on the “Treaty of Versailles” political maneuverings.

    • April 22, 2015 at 12:32 am

      I agree! The key is to just toss us into the situation rather than “discussing it in committee”. We’ll get what the conflict is that way, and there’s always room to go into more detailed political description in the novelization.

    • April 23, 2015 at 12:37 am

      Let’s be serious here. If you think Episode 7 is not based off the original notes Lucas made 30 years ago , you need help. They just said it was “a different direction” to put out the nerd flames that would have put a damper on the whole thing. In an interview after ROTJ Hamill even said that Lucas asked him if he would play Luke again as a pass onto the next generation role, in 2009. Hamill said he couldn’t imagine playing Luke into the next century. This may be a slightly different story , but its based directly on Lucas’vision of what he wanted Episode 7 to be.

      • April 23, 2015 at 1:03 am

        You missed my point I think. George MIGHT have presented the sequel trilogy to JJ and KK with a heavy emphasis on the political situations and maneuverings POST RoTJ. By different direction I mean different emphasis. They surely didn’t throw out his treatment of the story (at least I hope they didn’t), but rather decided on a different viewpoint to tell that story from.

  • April 21, 2015 at 11:01 pm

    I still think it is the First Order (of the Sith). Similar to this article, there would be an alliance of Empire sympathizer planets/systems/populations that fanatically follow a small group of (seven?) baddie force users.

    The baddies (or at least some of them) operate openly, performing amazing demonstrations of their powers. They obtain God-like/cult leader status and gain followers by promising peace and prosperity gained through galactic domination of “lesser” worlds.

    • April 22, 2015 at 12:38 am

      Yep, I have a feeling that there may be more of a cult-like feel to the First Order – a more fanatical bunch of zealots than the original Empire was, with dark Force users as the public focal point.

      The thing about the Emperor is, he seems to have continued operating mainly from the shadows, and even Vader wasn’t that well-known until the latter part of the Galactic Civil War. (Ask Admiral Motti and Admiral Ozzel about how badly they underestimated Vader.)

      I think that it’s possible that the First Order may openly rally around Kylo Ren or whoever the grand poobah dark-sider may be. Much creepier and arguably even more dangerous than the Empire was.

    • April 22, 2015 at 4:41 pm

      This was what I was thinking and hoping for.

    • April 23, 2015 at 12:43 am

      Perhaps this First Order (of the Sith) idea is much like Darth Kryat’s Sith Order.

      Kylo Ren being a former Jedi (insert rumor about being Plo Koon or a Skywalker/Solo) who has turned dark and is seeking more power and united the Imperial remnants into the First Order.

      With the spirit of Plaguis guiding him or attacking his mind like Bane’s spirit thought Kryat’s Sith was a joke…idk

      But im 100% sure the First Order is in reference to the Sith.

  • April 21, 2015 at 11:17 pm

    Mind…blown…I noticed the similarities before, but your attention to detail in this article is astounding. Thanks for writing, DEKKA129. What WERE orders 1-65? Is the first order term in relation to Order 1 as the semi-official rumor speculates? Interesting… What if there is a dictator figure in the background of this film (Uber) and Kylo Ren is his minion leading a gestapo-like force to hunt down former New Republic leaders and sympathizers?

    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo

    The Gestapo and the Resistance:

    Early in the regime’s existence, harsh measures were meted out to political opponents and those who resisted Nazi doctrine (i.e., the Communists), a role the SA performed until the SD and Gestapo undermined their influence and took control of security in the Reich. Because the Gestapo seemed omniscient and omnipotent, the atmosphere of fear they created led to an overestimation of their reach and strength; a faulty assessment which hampered the operational effectiveness of underground resistance organizations. Antipathy to Hitler and his regime was not tolerated, so the Gestapo had an important role to play in monitoring and prosecuting all who opposed Nazi rule, whether openly or covertly.

    • April 22, 2015 at 12:44 am

      Glad you dug the article, Hard Case. Thanks!

      I’m not 100% sure about the Order 1 rumor just yet, but it sounds to me as though it’s an Order that we hadn’t heard of yet. Check the “Contingency Orders” link in the article and it’ll take you to the Wookieepedia ad that lists the known ones. Order 1 is not one of them, and so if this rumor is true then it’s based on new canon info. We will find out eventually one way or another.

      I like your Gestapo parallel. It would seem logical that the First Order might do something like that. Whether it’s against New Republic leaders, sympathizers, Force sensitives or what, it would certainly fit in with the Third Reich concept very snugly indeed. (I like the bit about how the anti-Nazi resistance movements hobbled themselves by overestimating the reach of the Gestapo… could have some relevance to the First Order/Resistance scenario too!)

      • April 22, 2015 at 4:11 am

        I must say I loved the article written on here, it opened my eyes to some parallels I wouldn’t have looked for without knowing they were there. T’was very thoughtfully and thoroughly written and it shows that a lot of thought was put into it. I must say this is one of the reasons I’m a StarWars7news loyalist, everything on here is written with a lot of knowledge, research and proper thought processes to back it up. Keep up the awesomeness!

  • April 21, 2015 at 11:25 pm

    Just to be a pedant, Vader was the first to say “Rebel Alliance.” In the same scene, Leia referenced the “Imperial Senate”, but granted that’s not exactly the Empire.

    • April 22, 2015 at 7:40 am

      Also (pedantic), the Senate was disbanded in ANH so aftermath would be unique to each planets’ local governance, assumming they believed the Emperor and Vader were even dead.

  • April 21, 2015 at 11:27 pm

    I am down for this theory, especially as the Battle of Jakku scenario as described for the Battlefront DLC (coupled with the MvS rumors about settling Jakku) make it seem like at one point the New Republic had the Empire on the ropes. 30 years later it seems that the tables have turned! Very WWI/WWII. Now the Imperials really will be Space Nazis.

  • April 21, 2015 at 11:44 pm

    Something else worth mentioning I think is that we know that Finn is a stormtrooper. Not just wearing the suit but actually a full Stormtrooper, and member of what we presume is some kind of political movement in the First Order.

    From what we know, it certainly seems that Finn renounces his Stormtrooper status in TFA. Maybe Finn realises his political differences with the direction in which the First Order is headed. Maybe, like so many people in Nazi Germany, he grew up under conditions that made him sympathetic to the First Order’s aims, only for the movement to become more extreme and test his loyalty.

    • April 22, 2015 at 12:20 am

      Kinda like that deleted scene where Biggs convinces Luke to skip the Imperial Academy and join the Rebellion?

    • April 22, 2015 at 12:45 am


      • April 23, 2015 at 10:06 am

        This would answer why non-clones are Stormtroopers. Order 1 would establish a rule whereby citizens of the Empire would need to enlist in active duty. It would be like the draft.

  • April 21, 2015 at 11:46 pm

    How dreadfully fanfic of Disney.

    The Empire is now Jason Vorhees.


    • April 22, 2015 at 12:47 am

      No more than Germany was Jason Voorhees, really.

      Just because one side is beaten in a war doesn’t mean that they simply vanish. And it doesn’t mean that they might not regroup as something even worse than before. It’s happened plenty of times throughout history.

      • April 22, 2015 at 2:42 am

        Germany and the Third Reich were two distinct and separate entities. The former being a nation, culture, and society; the latter being a political movement.

        The people we went to war with in Germany were not the same people, the same power, though they were based in the same geographical location.

        The problem here is that when the center is eliminated from central planning, there’s just nothing left. No bureaucracy to train, pay and feed all these Stormtroopers, who would would be highly unlikely to obey the order of a dead Emperor 35 years later.

        There may be bits of Imperial devotees floating around, but they’d have all the power and organization of neo-Nazis today. A more likely scenario would be an attempt by the revolutionaries of the Rebellion to create a New Republic after their victory, who would then be in conflict with old separatist systems resisting such a movement, perhaps in a civil war.

        Regardless, I expect the First Order will be defeated by the Resistance in Episode IX. Does that mean that the Empire will rise yet again if they decide to produce Episode X-XII? How many remnants will rise again in new trilogies exactly?

        First Order/Resistance. Honestly, it sounds like something from an 80s-era Star Wars knock off film I might have seen at the drive-in.

        • April 22, 2015 at 6:15 pm

          I’m actually thinking they’re gonna go somewhere in between your theory and Dekka’s. I think it will definitely be a distinct group with different people in power, the whole “I’m Dath Vayda!” theory makes no sense to me. Also all the prime people of power are gonna be in jail by now, so naturally your gonna get mostly a new entourage in charge.
          One thing I’d like to point out is that one of the main selling points from Hitler was the “Bring back Germany as a power” mantra, as well as bringing in older [and more made-up] doctrines of Aryan Supremacy. So far that fits the 1st Order to a T in my mind. Germany’s Wealth = Impirial Wealth. Aryan Supremacy = Old Sith revival.

          • April 23, 2015 at 3:38 am

            I’m hoping so. When I first heard the terms Resistance and First Order, I had hoped for maybe a reversal where any “New Republic” the Rebellion had established was perhaps the New Order, and the Resistance was a budding fascism growing from within borrowing elements from the old Empire.

            But alas, that’s not the case.

      • April 22, 2015 at 10:42 pm

        Indeed,it’s just happened in Iraq.

        • April 23, 2015 at 3:35 am

          What do you mean?

          The Ba’ath Party and ISIS are two separate entities.

    • April 25, 2015 at 7:30 am

      So the Empire is Like Ronald Regan hunting down those dirty hippies?
      I thought that was the approach in the last two trilogies, with Palpy like a Nixon/ Bush type and Vader was a Regan/ Cheney / Rumsfeld type.
      Freddy Krueger was a Ronald Regan metaphor as well.
      I know The Crystal Skull had “Red State” propaganda all through the film, as well as Yale Skull and Bones nod.
      The First Order could be a reference to the New World Order, one world view globalized nation, of the Three Main Orders.
      The Americas
      The European sector
      Asian Alliance.

      I’d say the Third Reich New Order Domination sounds about right, that was the feel of the first films. The relic collecting sounds about it as well.

      Political power all through history can chime and resonate with many of the myths of STAR WARS

  • April 21, 2015 at 11:47 pm

    GREAT article guys! You may very well by on to something! What I find the most odd is the change in the imperial logo, but the rebellion crest seems to have stayed the same. This is mere speculation since the first order could be a subset of the empire with its own logo or that one rebel could just have an old symbol on it but it seems likely these are our new factions. Also puzzling is how DICE said the battle of Jakku was the “New Republic” vs the “empire” but these props imply it is “the resistance” vs “the first order”. I wonder if this was just a mistake on dice’s part or if the new republic was truly born and crumbled back into the resistance.

    My hope is the new republic is the main government body and the resistance is just the portion of it that is still fighting the imperial “first order” but it’s all a guess until December 18.

    • April 22, 2015 at 12:40 am

      It would be wise to remember that the resistance does not necessarily equal what the Rebel Alliance used to be. The X-Wings don’t have to belong to the Alliance. The resistance could be just that, a resistance against the Empire/First Order that is supported by the former Alliance, or it may even be a resistance against the former Rebels. The First Order may be a subset of the Empire, but I feel like that will be the name of the former Empire.

  • April 21, 2015 at 11:48 pm

    And the Jedi Superweapon is the Bomb, and its development the Manhattan Project. As some might in hindsight (but less likely at the time WWII was going on) turn against the Allies because of their development of the A Bomb, even though the Nazis were seeking it as well, it could create an analogue in this storyline with, as rumored, Gleeson’s character defecting from the Republic because he finds the weapon so horrific.

    • April 22, 2015 at 11:45 pm

      Or Gleeson is just a fucking imperial suit and people are over thinking this shit per usual. Who gives a shit what George Lucas has to say about what this trilogy would be about, it means nothing. My direct response to him insisting that this trilogy would be about “moral problems” and “passing on what you have learned” is did you watch your own movies George? That’s what Star Wars was always about.

  • April 21, 2015 at 11:50 pm

    Great article! It just occurred to me, if Disney chose to film the Thrawn trilogy, nobody would be as nearly excited as we all are now.
    Dont get me wrong, I adore those books, but I would know the plot in advance and it would take all the thrill that we are having these last few months.
    This is what it’s all about – the waiting, analyzing, speculation, pure excitement and joy about not knowing what the hell is gonna happen in TFA. Thank heavens Disney chose to go along with a completely new story.

    • April 22, 2015 at 2:53 am

      boy, you said it anonymous! I did not want something that was already written turned into a film, not that I read any of it! I did try the first 2 in that series but might of read the first, cant remember a thing!

  • April 21, 2015 at 11:55 pm

    I havent read the full artcile, sorry.
    But I had an idea right now.
    If battlefront claims jakku being a new republic vs first order battle I have my idea.
    We get a new republic, but eventually empire survivors reprganized as first order take over. New republic becomes resistance, and there’s the trick!

  • April 22, 2015 at 12:02 am

    Great, inciteful article. This is why I choose to visit here ahead of other Star Wars news sites.
    I think that if you are right this will add a layer of depth that I feared may be missing from the ST.
    As an aside, I have one small request. Please reconsider the white on black text. Reading articles like this becomes hard on the eyes after a while.

    • April 22, 2015 at 1:15 am

      I agree. Ever since I first visited this site I have been fiercely loyal to it. It’s the best. And if another site posts a noteworthy article, viral and co. let us know. This site has the best articles, the coolest staff, & the most tight knit community imo…and don’t get me started on the Cantina! Love it. 🙂

    • April 22, 2015 at 10:06 pm

      I actually like the white text on black background. It means I can read starwars7news in bed without the glare of a bright white page disturbing my wife. Each to their own!

  • April 22, 2015 at 12:16 am

    The Empire was always the Nazis. The fall of the republic as portrayed in the PT is very similar to the fall of the Weimarer Republic.
    Wheras the false flag operation Sidious sets into motion with the civil war is very similar to US-American conflict creating. Whatever the plot may be, I hope it reflects to a certain extend the constant war we are living in since the fall of the twin towers.

  • April 22, 2015 at 12:35 am

    Great… a real debate! and lots of Idea Sharing and not Arguing?

    What in the Wampa Fur happened to this place?
    I’m OUT I tell ya! OUT!

  • April 22, 2015 at 12:39 am

    Germany had about 440 sanctions placed against them with that treaty. No military was a big one. Originally, they were the brown shirts. Hitler did not trust them and it created the “night of the long knives” where Hitler eliminated most of them, fearing disloyalty. From that, the SS, Gestapo (Geheime Staatspolizei), and other die hard loyalists were created. Is it possible, we can see this in the new sequels at some point? Could DG’s character be equivalent to a brown shirt?

  • April 22, 2015 at 12:51 am

    What is “NASDP”?

    • April 22, 2015 at 1:01 am

      He ment NSDAP. National Socialistic Worker Party. Germany’s well known fascist party.

      Ofcourse their was nothing socialistic about them and they didn’t give a shit about workers.Instead they had very good connections to wealthy Germans, companies and banks, like the Deutsche Bank, you may have heard of that one.

      • April 22, 2015 at 1:17 am

        Made a mistake myself. National Socialistic German Worker Party, is the complete translation. It’s late.

        • April 22, 2015 at 3:50 am

          I hate being a pedant, but here I go: it’s Nationalsocialistche Deutsche Arbiter Partei, which is German for ‘National Socialist German Workers’ Party’. They were nicknamed the NatSoci, which became, in English ‘Nazi’.

          • April 22, 2015 at 8:25 am

            Yeah well right, I was too tired to look the official translation up. NatSoci? Never heard that one before. It is indeed more correct to call them fascist anyway, because indeed there was no socialism in Germany back then. They kept it capitalistic, because capitalism works just fine without democracy.

          • April 23, 2015 at 2:24 am

            Socialism is in fact fascism.

          • April 23, 2015 at 8:24 am

            You Sir need to get a proper education.
            I wonder why all these extremist rightwing zealots creep around on a Star Wars site? Well, maybe they get payed for to do so.
            To discuss politics with rather retarded people is kinda tiresome. My suggestion for you, join the army and become canon fodder.
            That’s your ultimate purpose.

      • April 22, 2015 at 9:17 pm

        This is incorrect.

        The whole notion that Nazis were just pretending to be socialists, and using the sterling reputation of socialism to get votes is pure fantasy, and goes against the mountains of documented evidence that prove otherwise.


        • April 22, 2015 at 11:21 pm

          It is very correct indeed. Kinda wacko to claim the opposite. The text on the site you linked to is complete and utter bs. Don’t believe everything you read mate. Claiming to be socialists was indeed part of the nazi propaganda lies. If that had been true, why did the SA battle the communists in the street, why did they kill so many communists in concentration camps? You need to get a proper education.

          • April 23, 2015 at 2:21 am

            Actually it’s not correct at all, and all it takes is a moment of critical thinking to figure it out.

            When you call someone a Nazi, what is it that you mean? Well, generally speaking, you mean someone who is very strict. Highly regulatory. These are left wing qualities. You generally don’t think of limited government and free markets when you think of Nazis.


            Why did they kill so many communists in concentration camps? Because that’s what socialists do. Every socialist nation has concentration camps for political prisoners, including those with competing brands of communism.

            So when you say I need to get a proper education, I think what you meant to say was, that I need to get a proper indoctrination. The little that is taught in schools and universities today is highly distorted and revised. Much of it is simply omitted.

            The whole notion that Nazis were right wingers came from two things.

            First, from the fact that visually Nazis had short hair cuts, were sharp dressers, and engaged in personal hygiene.

            Second, the left-wings obsession with perfect equality. So that if the left wing has lunatics in communists, then the right wing has to have lunatics in fascists. But that’s a complete misunderstanding of the political spectrum, because communists and fascists are one in the same, as socialist Nazi Germany exemplified. The following video explains this fairly succinctly:


            But it’s not just the website, or the above article or video, but literally mountains of documented evidence when you go direct to the source that prove this to be true.

            Look, there’s a reason that Elizabeth Warren’s list for progressives, echoes many points in Hitler’s list for Nazis.


          • April 23, 2015 at 8:54 am

            This “left and right is all the same” theory is indeed part of an extremist rightwing propaganda strategy to help them ligitamize their inhuman and uncivilized ideas. Don’t fall for this bs.
            If it were true the U.S.A. were a socialist country, because the US administration has engaged in torture and Guantanamo isn’t closed still. Fascists tell you everything to gain power. They tell you they are democrats, they tell are socialists, they tell you they are Santa Claus. GL gave an good example on that with the character Palpatine. Clearly what this guy posts here is unscientific. You Sir have been indoctrinated quite well. Just not by socialists

          • April 23, 2015 at 10:19 am

            Why, praytell, such the heated debate on such a beloved topic as Star Wars? Save your political/philosophical debates on socialism and communism for forums on which they belong. Let’s not appear as trolls on a subject that is mere speculation for a film none of us has seen. You’re not solving problems in a galaxy far, far away. In case you forgot, all of this happened long ago.

          • April 23, 2015 at 2:10 pm

            It is important to fight fascists, whereever they start lurking around.

          • April 23, 2015 at 6:23 pm

            …. Sometimes I can hear my teeth talking… And now that I has your attention, let me redirect your energy from that debate towards something more positive and awesome, such as more speculation and wet dreams as to what we’ll see in the new Star Wars film guys! 🙂 cheers

          • April 25, 2015 at 7:32 am

            Get your guitar Guthrie

          • April 24, 2015 at 4:20 pm

            Well, that’s a reasonable question.

            But look, if we’re going to examine Star Wars as an allegory for World War I and/or II, and Nazi Germany, then discussion of fascism/socialism/communism is one of the places that conversation naturally leads.

          • April 23, 2015 at 7:40 pm

            The left and right aren’t all the same.

            It’s the schools and universities, particularly of the public variety, that push revisionist propaganda.

            But you have to be old enough and well read enough to see it.

          • April 24, 2015 at 7:31 am

            Are you trying to say you’re old?

          • April 24, 2015 at 4:18 pm

            Like a fossil.

    • April 22, 2015 at 1:06 am

      Thanks for the catch! Fixed it.

      Dyslexics of the world, untie! ;^)

      • April 22, 2015 at 1:25 am

        mY kars iNde paR. cark

        • April 22, 2015 at 1:43 am

          “…make that THREE hard-boiled eggs!”

          • April 22, 2015 at 2:18 am

            A bice ned time ftory sor you.


            ( btw – You do realize we both have to make up for this karma now don`t you. We gotta do something amazingly kind tomorrow to balance things out again for mocking them. Or we`ll both be in negative karma. Let me know what you do – I gotta figure something really kind out to do)

    • April 22, 2015 at 3:37 am

      The National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) was a left-wing rival of the Communist Party (aka Soviet Socialism).

      As it turned out, both Hitler and Stalin were far more interested in “totalitarianism” than any other kind of “ism”. I suspect we will see the same from the leader of the First Order.

      • April 22, 2015 at 8:37 am

        At least the soviet army defeated the nazis in the end.

        • April 22, 2015 at 3:26 pm

          The triumph of liberty and free markets over the tyrannies of National Socialism (WWII) and Soviet Socialism (Cold War) were the crowning achievements of the 20th Century. Hopefully we will see a similar victory for freedom in the ST, just as we did in the OT.

          • April 22, 2015 at 7:20 pm

            Also Elvis lives and the world was created 10.000 years ago.


  • April 22, 2015 at 12:57 am

    I had considered these same parallels upon learning of the “First Order” and “Resistance”. The trouble I see with this theory, you have touched on – How can the Rebellion/Republic simultaneously be powerful enough to harshly punish Imperial remnants and be a Resistance movement to those same remnants that are now “The First Order”? I suppose the Republic could have risen again only to fall prior to the opening of The Force Awakens, but it seems like a lot to explain in the crawl. I’m not saying this ruins our theory. I think it is mostly spot on. There must be some element or elements that reconciles how a resurgent Republic able to punish Imperial remnants can be a “Resistance” to a force springing from those same remnants that is yet to be figured out.

    • April 22, 2015 at 2:14 am

      Yeah, there’s a lot to be figured out yet, and as I mention in the article I’ve no idea if my theories are even remotely close to what J.J. and company have in mind.

      Then again, the European allies put the boot down hard on Germany after WWI, and within 20 years or so Hitler had them all on the run.

      I like the theory that Dan’s Voyage suggested near the top of the comments section that the Rebellion/New Republic is somehow prevented by treaty from taking military action against Imperial remnants, so they’re doing so by proxy through the Resistance.

      But again, who knows? It’s an interesting mystery for now, though.

      • April 22, 2015 at 7:23 am

        Did you read my post in the forum about the Battle of Jakku. Almost identical lines of thinking.

  • April 22, 2015 at 1:10 am

    Very interesting theory 🙂

  • April 22, 2015 at 1:17 am

    I`ve been trying to figure out what the symbols on the red flag could mean but its so difficult.

    I was thinking the red flag in the trailer, the teeth/spikes pointing inwards around the circle could stand for something. Like a certain amount of moffs/govenors on a council or in control, or true loyalists. Or perhaps a group of loyal planets (same like the stars on the US flag representing states) Or perhaps it relates to something in history again about the number or something.

    I can count 9 spikes/teeth on the flag the other half are hidden. Maybe there are 18 to 20 ?
    Might not mean anything, but its curious to wonder.

    • April 22, 2015 at 4:24 am

      Could the spikes be one for each system that stayed loyal to the empire post-RotJ? Just some food for thought 🙂

  • April 22, 2015 at 2:02 am

    Lucas had that power ( To change the OT movies and create crappy stories like the PT as he saw fit). Disney has that power ( To totally make canon what they see fit and disregard all EU). And I have that power too, and see SW:TFA or E7 and if it’s crap, to not buy any mouse-house merchandising and just watch my unaltered DVD’s of the OT and disregard PT and new canon stuff!

  • April 22, 2015 at 2:23 am

    Nice article. But dont read too much into it. The power of voice can bend a many scenarios to adapt a given scenario. Humans love to see pattern everywhere.
    So id not taking it as a direct citation of nazi germany, but rather pop-culture itself.

  • April 22, 2015 at 3:00 am

    I’m starting to hear a lot of whispering that MVS is Anakin. Is anyone else hearing this?

    • April 22, 2015 at 4:10 am

      Hahahahahahahahahahaha…..oh wait. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      I was thinking the exact same thing

  • April 22, 2015 at 3:42 am

    Very worthy speculation. None of this may turn out to be true, but it’s some of the most rational theorising I’ve seen yet. And we’ve (almost) totally avoided the usual, tedious ‘PT v OT’ ‘too much Ralph McQuarrie’ debates that needlessly plague these boards. Good job, everyone!

  • April 22, 2015 at 4:08 am

    I’m not sure how I feel about First Order and Resistance concepts. There is much written about the SW universe drawing parallels from our own history particularly through war time. What really concerns me is the fact that these concepts in Earthly terms, are in play right now! playing out in the present, right in front of our eyes, the NWO opps! I mean ‘First Order’ and Terrorism opps! I mean the ‘Resistance’ I hope that TFA gives us good messages over taunting us with unspoken realities. With what I know, I am not overly confident.

    • April 22, 2015 at 5:28 am

      How about this theory:

      First Order refer’s to Palpatine’s secret first order, which is like executive order 66 and is done to preserve the empire and/or sith order using unknown sith magic. This would explain why *spoilers* kylo ren seeks ancient jedi/sith artifacts and why **double spoiler** Luke appears to be guarding the tomb of “Uber.*

  • April 22, 2015 at 4:30 am

    George Lucas said that many of his scenes involving the arrival of someone important in the Empire(particularly in Return of the Jedi) were inspired by “Triumph of the Will”.

  • April 22, 2015 at 5:10 am

    What strikes me is that everyone takes it as given that the SW galaxy MUST be ruled by a central authority. This is certainly not the case in our real world.

    By the SW lore, the Jedi knights have “kept the peace in the galaxy for 1000 generations” (citation may not be 100% accurate). Now by the TFA time obviously the Jedi knights as a central force to keep the galaxy together are gone. The empire replaced them with the Death Star to “keep the systems in line”. After the defeat of the empire in ROTJ this is gone too.

    My take is that there is no longer a central ruling body in the galaxy. Without a central force like the Jedi / Death Star the galaxy could be in general turmoil. The new republic / previous rebels could be one alliance of planets among many, maybe controlling some important core worlds. But there should be plenty of room in the galaxy for other alliances.

    The First Order may be located outside of the reach of the new republic, e.g. in the outer rim. It could consist of counter-revolutionaries wanting to “bring the order back”. By the time of TFA it may have gained momentum. The new republic may be in defense. The “resistance” could be protecting the core worlds from the further advance of the First Order.

    Keep in mind that somehow all of that has to be packed into the opening crawl to explain the TFA movie audience what happened after ROTJ 🙂

  • April 22, 2015 at 5:32 am

    Great discussion. One thing I keep coming back to is the difference between a war among sovereign nations (planets) and a civil war. In a civil war, leadership can change quickly and issue orders (such as the Valkyrie attempt in wwii). the empire is the republic. The republic is the empire. Therefore parallels are closer to post war ‘reconstruction’ than a foreign power envoking a treaty.

    Perhaps following the end of ROTJ, everything did work out just fine. There was peace, and disarmament throughout the Galaxy. Then, after years of secret gathering, the First Order emerges, and the republic is not equipped to fight…thus the resistance.

  • April 22, 2015 at 7:18 am

    Meh. Leia is the new secret Sith Lord playing good guy and her son is her apprentice. They may even share the same mask to throw people off. Don’t over complicate it,

    • April 22, 2015 at 8:59 am

      Whether your intentions are good or you’re just trolling, your idea is just.not.gonna.be.happening.

      If anything, Leia might be a head of state for the resistance, while being partially or directly liable for a concept or act of war that is viewed as being morally ambiguous (i.e.: “super weapon”). This position would create all kinds of conflicts of interest for the subjects that she is trying to serve.

      • April 22, 2015 at 9:14 am

        ^^^I personally see this as being a distinct possibility, which automatically would go against Luke’s belief system. He would tell her that this course of action is not the correct one, to which she would respond that they face the greatest threat ever to their (30+ years worth of) accomplishments and sovereignty. He’d then tell her that there’s a better (Force-involved) way to handle the situation, and then go about his way of dealing with the matter.

        >>>> Enter the unexpected involvements of Rey and Finn.

  • April 22, 2015 at 7:51 am

    Not agree.
    The sign of the times.
    The first trilogy, IV, V, VI, had nothing to do with the great war, first world war. It was a war between different empires.
    IV, V, VI, was related to the enviroment of Lucas 60´s and 70´s, California, San Francisco, all the movements against Vietnam War, nuclear weapons, a conflict of generations, ww2 vs beat and hippy (just giving them a name).
    And I, II, III, was clearly all the conflicts of second world war, the generations coincide and the facts are similar, USA become an Empire after ww2-clone wars.
    I believe they are metonimy no metaphores, but I always have though that first SW movies were about the sign of the times.
    What about this new trilogy, our sign of the times, we have not a conflict generation like Lucas lived, but the Empire is still there, isnt it? same we are watching in the teasers.
    Even sometimes older generations seems more progressive/rebels than newer in some ways.

    “Chew, we are home”

    • April 22, 2015 at 9:27 am

      Yes you are right, the older generation is more progressive, we are awake with awareness, we know that most things are not what they seem! I am finding the next generation totally dumbed down (no offense) I’m sure none taken! We can sense, particularly since 911, that things are not quite right, I can most certainly feel it Also, and in response to AKa52, a couple of posts back, make no mistake, no illusion about it. We are indeed under the control of a central authority, it is certainly the case in our real world, them! they! have infiltrated our governments, have total control of the industrial war complex and as we a gradually being stripped of our freedoms, they have total control of the people too! I know I am taking risk and its not that i want a post taken down its just that i know and speak the truth. Most people wouldn’t even begin to understand what i am on about lol perhaps this is the generation thing (indecently I am 50). How have them! they! been able to maintain so much control, elusively! without anybody knowing? what’s their system? The Monetary! what’s their product? Debt! Who are they? them!…… elite central bankers!! not something to be taken lightly, I just shared with you, what’s behind all war and instabilities on our planet right now, for real! and in our reality. The philosophy behind Star Wars mirrors our reality in every way, it sounds like TFA is going to level up on this idea, just a few more notches! AKa52 one sentence from you has inspired this post with wisdom from the older generation, be mindful of what you have learned…

      • April 22, 2015 at 1:58 pm

        Indecently fifty, all right!

        • April 22, 2015 at 9:09 pm

          Thanks for a reply although, not at all surprised to have the slightest error picked with a PIC axe lol I stand corrected… Incidentally 50….
          Hey take it easy, be wary of Jade Helm! if you are in America, hopefully it is just another drill although, these drills tend to go live, I am worried about this. Talk about the force awakens, that could be an under statement!

  • April 22, 2015 at 8:14 am

    It only makes sense that they continue to draw historically from WWII and Nazi Germany since GL has been doing that from the start. The OT was FULL of WWII symbolism and references. Not to mention the obvious StormTroopers

  • April 22, 2015 at 9:07 am

    I like this idea a lot. I hope the dialog doesn’t get to bogged down trying to explain all this like in the Prequels though.

    The Sith artefacts intrigue me.

    Could Kylo Rens cross guard saber be one of those relics? So what we’re seeing is an ancient lightsaber, maybe the first red saber ever? This would explain the design AND the erratic nature of the blade. It’s old, not new.

    • April 22, 2015 at 4:59 pm

      I strongly suspect that one thing J.J. wants to avoid is the tendency to get bogged down with a lot of exposition. That’s one very common criticism of the prequels, and I think he’s very aware of that fact.

      IMHO, you don’t need to spend a lot of screen time explaining stuff like this. The original trilogy didn’t do that, and I doubt that the new sequels will do it either.

      As for Kylo Ren’s saber, take a look at this photo from the prop and costume display at Celebration:


      Looks to me like it probably is a relic.

  • April 22, 2015 at 9:12 am

    Or….could this be a new FIRST ORDER of Sith, abolishing the rule of 2?

    The shot of the troopers in from of the banner shows a lineup of dark figures with one in the center.

    A Sith ruler and his group of Sith generals who command this new army of anti-republic soldiers?

    • April 22, 2015 at 9:51 am

      Well, Palpatine demonstrated that you can’t control an entire galaxy without a formidable military even you are a super-sith with a super-sith apprentice and dark side acolytes. It only stands to reason that a potential successor would recognize this militaristic need and follow suit to the best of his/her ability.

    • April 22, 2015 at 4:12 pm


      So that they can destroy themselves all over again in another inner power struggle…smh.

  • April 22, 2015 at 10:02 am

    The last few days have been a bit of a shock. I did not expect this much information so soon this sight has reached a tipping point with me, Its now too much information and I can fell my expectations starting to be satisfied before I have seen the movie. Being a ST fan and following all the news and posting at the trekmovie (good job with that AP:)you handled it well)forum before STITD came out detracted from the experience of watching the movie.

    In a way it really muddied my relationship with the ST franchise there had been so much speculation and abuse between fans and the people who produced the movie I had literlly forgotten why I even liked ST in the first place. My Advise to those who want to take it is stay away from the forums and enjoy the movie for what it is and then talk on the forum after the movie has come out. You will better enjoy the experience with your own connection to the Star Wars movie and what it means to you as an individual. All I want is to be 7 years old just for a few hours.

    • April 22, 2015 at 5:03 pm

      I’ve been very careful about not getting too deep into the weeds with spoilers and rumors for this very reason. (I read the ESB novelization back in 1980 before the movie even came out, so I missed experiencing the shock of “I am your father” in the theater – I’ve always regretted that.)

      • April 23, 2015 at 2:13 am

        I read the ESB novelization as well – to a point. I stopped when the Empire was bombarding the asteroid field searching for the Falcon. I’m so glad I did (not to rub salt in the wound!).

        I like reading the forums and thinking about what other SW fans speculate about the movie(s). I’ve stopped reading anything spoiler-ific now though. What I’ve seen in the trailers is enough to bide me over until 12/18.

  • April 22, 2015 at 10:32 am

    ^^^ Yeah yeah yeah. That’s all fine and well but a lot of us are specifically here (and other places on the net) to be spoiled lol. For a lot of us, knowledge of the plot will simply not impede our ability to enjoy the film. We’re just anxious- same as you. The difference is, we’re not concerned with the notion of knowing too much. After the fiasco of the PT (not a bash), we want to believe that we’ll be able to experience a similar grand magic that we felt when the OT was the latest and greatest thing in cinema 😉 .

  • April 22, 2015 at 10:46 am

    I think you’re not taking into account the description of Jakku from the Battlefront game:
    “experience the Battle of Jakku, the pivotal moment when the New Republic confronted key Imperial holdouts on a remote desert planet on the Outer Rim”

    It seems that yes, a new republic was formed and it was confronting the remains of the Empire.
    But during that battle something happened that changed the odds of the war and the very existence of the two factions.
    I’d say something like Luke or other main characters being “missing in action” or a new Sith rising.
    Also, being Rey a scavenger from Jakku I think she will be messing with the battle ruins and leftovers and will find and uncover something that will trigger the main plot for the film.

  • April 22, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    Okay I’ll leave this here for you to consider. It is a brief dialogue scene between Princess Leia and Han Solo. It takes place in the second half of the movie. There is a lull after the first act which is full of action. Han and Leia are at odds, and this scene seals the deal and Han leaves in frustration. I believe it is their last moment together in the film.

    INT – Possibly a starcraft, the script says “INT – Leia’s M.”

    “I told you it was a bad idea.”

    “No, Luke was right. He was right all along.”

    “Right? The galaxy is falling apart and you’re telling me he was right?”

    LEIA ORGANA (sighs):
    “Han. Listen to me. The Emperor is dead, but not those who backed him. There is too much at stake for them to freely hand in their weapons.”

    “You rather want another war?”

    “She’ll find Luke. Don’t worry.”

    “I’m more worried about who will find her.”

    “She can take care of herself, Han.”

    “Just her like mother, then. Fine.”

    • April 22, 2015 at 4:05 pm

      You the real Spoiler man?

      If so, I like your rumors, dude. Keep ’em coming!

    • April 22, 2015 at 7:35 pm

      “You rather want another war?” i was interested until i read that stupid assed line…nice imagination tho.

      • April 22, 2015 at 7:37 pm

        looks like a 6th grader wrote those lines..LOL

    • April 25, 2015 at 7:57 am

      That was so sad.

  • April 22, 2015 at 2:15 pm

    Great article! This sounds like a good stepping stone to take the new trilogy in this direction, well if it turns out that way or close…who knows?

  • April 22, 2015 at 3:29 pm

    That’s brilliant!
    If some of your thoughts and the rumours would be coincident to TFA screenplay, background for the sequel trilogy promises to be very interesting.

  • April 22, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    Nice theory. It does have a few holes in it, but with 30 some years between RotJ and TFA, all details be easily and nicely filled in.

    IMO, this First Order-Resistance thing might be a combination of WWI and WII Europe (as proposed by the article), plus the Dark Ages after Rome’s fall (as proposed in other posts).

    I like it either way. Seems like a natural, realistic progression for a galaxy that had been ruled by one huge body (be it the Republic or the Empire) for centuries. It makes all the sense in the world to me.

  • April 22, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    Thanks for the interesting & insightful article. Just a thought, perhaps understanding more about the term ‘rebellion’ & ‘resistance’ could help us better understand the context of its use in the OT & TFA.

    My understanding is that a rebellion is created to oppose a long established institution whereas a resistance is created to oppose a newly established authority. Also, a rebellion would probably have a much larger & wider membership compared to a resistance.

    • April 22, 2015 at 5:08 pm

      In a lot of ways, the two terms tend to be interchangeable. My feeling is that if there is a distinction between the two in terms of the Star Wars universe, it’s probably that the Resistance is somewhat more underground and “grassroots” than the Rebellion. But overall, I imagine that “Resistance” is mostly a term designed to distinguish them from the classic Rebel Alliance for storytelling purposes. (“This ain’t your Daddy’s Rebellion!”) ;^)

  • April 22, 2015 at 6:24 pm

    I think the Republic died, a la League of Nations going nowhere, meaning the Rebellion is still in survival-mode. But seeing as they “destroyed” the Empire, they’re the Rebellion… against what?

    Now Empire’s survivors stage a revival of the Empire, but after 20 years, the Empire equals BAD in the public opinion.
    So they get a new, less taboo, name: First Order.

    First Order gains momentum, the Republic disbands, those most loyal to the Republic’s ideals Resist against the growing evil, hence, they’re the Resistance [a la the French Resistance, not Rebellion, because France was supposed to be they’re country, so they’re Resisting, NOT Rebelling]

    So to sum up, the Rebellion no longer considers itself IN ANY WAY stepping on the Empire’s turf: e,i, they’re on the Defensive.
    The First Order is considered “innocent” of all the crimes committed by the Empire, thus they have a distinct advantage to GAINING ALLIES.

    The Tables have Turned. The Third Star War is about to commence.

    Great post Dekka, I’ve shared this opinion for a while now, couldn’t have stated it better myself.

  • April 22, 2015 at 6:25 pm

    First order and third death star

  • April 22, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    Really enjoyed this speculation. I hope the movie explains along these lines. A lot of it can be done in the opening crawl.

  • April 22, 2015 at 7:27 pm

    Awesome post. I have shared SOME of these same theories…but wow…definately not as in depth and as educational as this post.It makes total sense..i hope this theory is correct.Star wars has always mimicked Nazi Germany, and this only makes sense.The first thing i thought of when i heard about the sith relic collector was Hitler’s facination with collecting religious artifacts.this is probably the best article i have read on this site so far, and i have been coming here since the begining. great job

  • April 22, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    Thanks, everyone. I’m glad that my ramblings on the whole First Order/Resistance dealio ended up being of interest. As I pointed out, I’ve got no inside info to back any of this up, so I was a bit concerned that my speculation on this might have come across as self-indulgent. But it seems like a lot of you were thinking along similar lines, and we got some fantastic discussion going here.

    And of course, there is rarely just one historical inspiration for something like this. My own area of historical expertise centers around the Zeppelin airships of the first several decades of the 20th century, so I’m quite familiar with how the post-WWI situation affected Germany especially since as technology with a track record of military use, Germany’s Zeppelins were “verboten” under the Versailles Treaty until sanctions were loosened a decade later.

    Somebody with more of a focus on Roman history may very well see aspects of that reflected in what we currently know about the TFA story. And so on.

    It sure is fun to have something like this to kick ideas around about again, isn’t it? ;^)

    • April 22, 2015 at 10:47 pm

      Great article. You need to write one about the mythology that we’ve glimpsed in the teasers. For example, looking down on Vader’s mask/skull recalls Shakespeare’s Hamlet, and Kylo’s bizarro fascination. The cross saber “Excalibur” and the idea of Luke’s saber finding its way back to him is very King Aurthur.

      Luke no longer wants to be a part of the turmoil, but is brought back ala “the Lady in the Lake” metaphor. Interesting stuff.

      I have a feeling, or at least hope, that JJ and gang has spent some real effort in including myth and history.

  • April 22, 2015 at 8:36 pm

    This is beautiful.

  • April 22, 2015 at 8:41 pm

    Really great article !

  • April 22, 2015 at 9:16 pm

    Awesome read!!!

  • April 22, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    I used http://www.starwars.com/games-apps/star-wars-crawl-creator/?5537ee88e4b09de05bb9a5a7 to make my own crawl for TFA…here’s mine. 🙂

    Star Wars

    Episode VII

    The Force Awakens

    It is a time of uncertainty across the galaxy. In the aftermath of the destruction of the second Death Star at the hands of the Rebel Alliance three decades ago, the remnants of the shattered Empire were forced into hiding and a New Republic was formed.

    As the Republic began hunting down the remaining Imperial factions, enforcing justice and demanding retribution for the Empire’s crimes against the galaxy, those who sympathized with Imperial rule rallied many systems to overthrow the infant Republic. But there were those who resisted.

    Unknown to the Resistance, a new order has risen. A darkness has awakened that threatens to blot out all light in the galaxy forever. But as the dark side awakens a new enemy, so does the light…

    • April 22, 2015 at 10:51 pm

      I like it! Well written good sir

    • April 22, 2015 at 10:52 pm


    • April 23, 2015 at 5:28 am

      Meh, reads a little forced.

      It is a time of great uncertainty, the bonds and alliance of the GALACTIC REPUBLIC are weakening as a the FIRST ORDER, risen from the ashes of the Empire, has won it’s first victory, the Republic is fast losing it’s hold on the Galaxy.

      In response to this growing insurgency, the Republic has re-instituted the controversial use of a Grand Galactic Army, called THE RESISTANCE to defend what’s left of Peace and Justice.

      I can’t think of a third paragraph, and it’s not much better but that’s what I got.

      I can’t really articulate the crawl any more as usually the last paragraph sets up what is happening in the 1st act, which for obvious reasons, I can’t do.

    • April 24, 2015 at 2:08 am

      no thanks

  • April 22, 2015 at 10:50 pm

    The Resistance is a defensive effort against the rise of the First Order not a new rebellion. The Resistance is a response to the First Order’s attacks on “Republic” turf, similar to the clones in the prequels against the Separatists or the Empire against the Rebellion from the originals.

    • April 22, 2015 at 11:12 pm

      You lost me at “prequels”….no I’m jk. I could see it going either way. We really don’t know at this point. I’m excited to see how it plays out.

  • April 22, 2015 at 11:46 pm

    It’s a good theory but a bit dated given it’s 2015. I had a thought that the First Order could be more related to ISIS in that the children of Al Qaeda have risen to avenging the honour of their parents. Could Kylo be avenging his father? I can’t imagine a Star Wars film without some Daddy issues.

    • April 23, 2015 at 4:28 am

      Ren is hinted as being Solo’s kid. Not Vader. That would make him Luke and Leis brother. Good god.

  • April 23, 2015 at 1:51 am

    If this is indeed the setting for TFA, I would bet my money on Kylo Ren being an evil lunatic, who’s mission is a cleansing off all people who don’t support the first order… But the real brains behind the evil might be Andy Serkis’ character. Like an old Sith alien dude. Maybe Darth Plagueis.

  • April 23, 2015 at 4:26 am

    Kylo is Lukes son.

    • April 25, 2015 at 7:44 am

      That’s what I feel too, yet the Kylo name being a Skywalker/ Solo combination has me thinking Leia and Han had Twins.
      But Gleeson looks so Luke and Mara, if that is even the case.
      Driver could be Han son as well as Kylo Ten
      Or Kira is a false hero, which I doubt.
      JJ got this tight, the main body of the Story has not leaked, only parts that are stitched together from leaks.
      I don’t think we have scene or heard of all the locations yet.
      And where will those flashbacks have taken place from?

  • April 23, 2015 at 5:54 am

    Kylo is Luke’s adoptive son. You see, it all started when Chewbacca banged Hera. He left, Hera had a small wookie child. She felt cheated, so she got Kanan to hunt down Chewbacca to take responsibility for his actions.
    Kanan nearly killed Chewbacca but was stopped by Jedi Master Ben Kenobi.
    Ben Kenobi talked Kanan down, and Chewbacca vowed to repent for ditching Hera. Kanan was upset by this as he didn’t want Chewbacca to step in on their Platonic romance. Kanan agreed to help him return to Hera, but steered their ship into an ambush, getting Chewbacca captured.

    Years later Chewbacca’s son found out he was Chewbacca’s son, and he developed an intense hate-love complex, he also found out that Kanan betrayed Chewbacca, forcing Chewie’s son, called Kylo, to betray Kanan to the Empire. Unfortunately Kylo was caught in a firefight and was maimed shorlty thereafter, resulting in a loss of fur.
    Years later, Kylo attempted to track down his father Chewbacca, until he found Luke. Luke informed Kylo that after the battle of Endor, Chewbacca travelled to Kashyyyk to visit his relatives, where he staged an attack on a remnant Imperial Colony, Chewbacca was detained in a Prison Facility for 19 years, with Han sending half a fleet to look for Chewbacca, things turned out negative.

    Now Luke, having a heart of friggin’ gold, instead, adopts Kylo as his son. Caring for him and teaching him to use a lightsaber. And teaching him the ways of the force, even though he was a non-sensitive.
    Now when Chewbacca was eventually freed from prison, he was informed by Han that he had a son named Kylo who was currently being cared for by Luke.

    Chewbacca came and met Kylo, but Kylo wanted little to do with Chewbacca, because you know, ditching Hera.
    During his visit, Chewbacca discovers that Kanan was in fact betrayed by Kylo, Chewbacca has mixed feelings, because Kanan was his competitor but he was also an important Rebellion figure.
    He confronts Kylo about it, Luke defends Kylo saying that Kylo had long since repented for his act of vengeance.
    Kylo challenges Chewbacca to a duel, Chewbacca challenges Luke to a duel, Luke narrowly escapes with his arms intact, Chewbacca and Kylo have a duel, Chewbacca wounds Kylo, Kylo runs away.

    Chewwbacca has regretted the way he acted to his son ever since. Hence, Chewbacca’s new-found obesity.
    Over the whole deal, Han begins to distrust Luke, Luke moves to a place of exile to reestablish peace within himself.

    Kylo vows to get vengeance against Chewbacca and Luke, using his level 0 Jedi Training, he impersonates Darth Vader, building up both the Sith to destroy Luke, and the Empire to destroy the Rebellion Chewbacca holds so dear.
    Now Kylo in his time with Luke, had developed a secret desire to live up to Luke’s legacy, which translates into his quest for power via Sith Relics as a compensation for his lack of force-ability.

    Enter Rey, Kylo’s adoptive cousin.

    It all fits.

    • April 25, 2015 at 7:54 am

      Wow Dude in the hat, I never thought you would go so lo no bro?

  • April 23, 2015 at 8:36 am

    “First Order” seems like a new name because you can’t have an Empire without an Emperor, perhaps more a council of senior Governors. The simplest answer would be there was no New Republic, but if the Battlefront is right, and there was a New Republic, then it would seem there as. Perhaps something like this, Rebellion evolves to “New Republic” with some systems, but not all, with Imperial forces holding significant territory, particularly in the outer rim. During its first years the “New Republic” tries to defeat and dismantle these, but is defeated by an Imperial coalition called “First Order” at the battle of Jakku. “First Order” Coalition then follows up by dismantling the “New Republic”. “Resistance” rather than “Rebellion” suggests the last few free systems of “New Republic” are trying to resist the expansion of “First Order” into the last ‘free systems’ Have the ‘first act’ of VII in Jakku surrounded by the remnants of the battle is a good call to help the exposition.

    • April 23, 2015 at 6:03 pm

      Maybe the Rebellion never made it all the way to Coruscant?

      So you have the Resistance on some major part of the Galaxy, but the First Order still has Coruscant and the ‘cred that comes with it? That’d be interesting.

      • April 26, 2015 at 11:07 am

        The problem is we can’t retcon out the Special Edition Coruscant celebrations. That they held it and lost it after being defeated by a coalition of Former Imperial Regional Governors The question becomes did the New Republic fail because of its own mistakes, like the article suggests, or because the Imperial Remants were just too strong. I think the ‘mistake’ theory ends up with too much complicated back story.

  • April 23, 2015 at 9:52 am

    ANON @ 8:36 AM

    You’ve made the most sense so far. I mean, how does a “victorious” rebellion devolve into a position of resistance within a 30+ year time span without having had it’s ass kicked majorly at some point of being in power? Right now I feel embarrassed for the former Alliance if this is truly the case -_- .

    Honestly, at first, I felt a bit uncomfortable with the idea of the “new republic” being back in a position of political and militaristic vulnerability in such a short amount of time. It just seemed like a lazy and uninspired narrative but who knows at this point.

    • April 23, 2015 at 6:01 pm

      As pointed out earlier, Rebels REBEL against those in power.

      Resistance RESISTS [i.e. defends] against attack.

      Bonaparte was a Rebel, taking over someone else’s country.

      The French Resistance was resisting / defending THEIR country. I think this is an important distinction.
      The name-change is everything, it means that the Rebels are NO LONGER rebels: They are Defenders of an established center, RESISTING the insurgency of the First Order. Things have gone from under-vs-alphadog to full-on 50/50 civil war.

  • April 23, 2015 at 10:37 am

    The fact that “a certain princess” has asked Poe to undertake a mission says something. Maybe this mission is a clandestine one. Maybe no one can no about it. Maybe her hands are tied, and she has to task a member of The Resistance with the mission. Maybe the Empire and the Rebellion have mingled into some sort of conglomerate, and The First Order and The Rebellion are other entities. Maybe there’s three parties involved. That would explain new TIE fighters firing upon Stormtroopers. Maybe the galaxy is more f-ed up than we realize.

    • April 23, 2015 at 10:41 am

      This, of course, would be a scenario after the battle of Jakkar, when the New Republic and the Imperial remnants exhausted their resources and had to cone to a treaty.

  • April 23, 2015 at 10:39 am

    My idea of an Opening Crawl based on what seems to be known right now:

    “A power vaccuum left behind by the unexpected death of Emperor Palpatine at the Battle of Endor more than three decades ago has led to ongoing uprisings and revolutions in planetary systems across the galaxy. Former governors and aspiring senators have endlessly been at conflict to determine who controls each territory.

    The interim government known as the New Republic has engaged remnants of the former Imperial forces in numerous battles along the outer rim with both sides taking heavy losses.

    In a bid to finally establish galactic peace, a mysterious new leader has emerged from within the First Order to convince the Resistance fighters to agree to a cease-fire, while a Jedi Master in solitude contemplates his own role within the universe….”

    • April 23, 2015 at 2:13 pm

      Very funny indeed!

    • April 23, 2015 at 6:39 pm

      Omg that’s beautiful, I’d watch that movie (and I’m a dog person!)

  • April 23, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    WOW!! I didn’t bother to read all the posts, but your point is well delivered if the movie parallels our own history!!! This would be exciting for anyone who is a history buff. There are many books out there for one to read to follow up your point of view of history; my favorite is a book called ‘Wilson’s War’ (not based on the movie by the same title, but based on President W. Wilson’s administration and the decisions they/he made that snowballed poorly into what is now our modern history.) Excellent article!!! May The Force Awaken and Be With You!!!!

  • April 24, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    It is absolutely absurd what people will come up with when trying to solve the identity of Kylo Ren. Force Ghost of Vader? REALLY?

  • April 25, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    Fun to see, how these Republicans, racists, conservatives and fascist zealots are even too dumb to understand what Star Wars is about. And it isn’t too hard to understand really… XD

Comments are closed.